为什么东南亚比东亚贫穷?有什么原因吗?
Why is Southeast Asia poorer than East Asia? Is there a reason?
译文简介
这取决于他们有多少中国元素。
正文翻译
Why is Southeast Asia poorer than East Asia? Is there a reason?
为什么东南亚比东亚贫穷?有什么原因吗?
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It depends on how many Sino they got…
In the wave of colonialism, only Sino nations have a little power to stop those colonists.
Sino is a tool to suppress current wishes, but make a long term plan.
All Sino countries have a very hard time at the beginning,but win at last.
They don't really belive in any God, they know the death is 100% a ending, so they don't fear about god or nature.
They can do really a sacrifice.
They are as weak as little ants, but together they are the god.
Great Yu, first Sino King, an engineer against the flooding, 4500 years ago. Sino Soldiers, against the flooding,1998
这取决于他们有多少中国元素。
在殖民主义的浪潮中，只有中华民族有一点力量来阻止那些殖民者。中国元素是一种压制当前欲望制定长期计划的工具。
所有中华文化圈的国家在开始的时候都很艰难，但最终都取得了胜利。
他们并不真的相信任何上帝，他们知道死亡是100%的，所以他们不害怕上帝或自然。他们真的可以做出牺牲。他们像小蚂蚁一样弱小，但他们在一起就是神。
大禹，中国的第一个王，4500年前抗洪的工程师。
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中国士兵，抗洪，1998年
Northeast Asians have higher IQ, according IQ and Wealth of Nations. Lots of problems in the world can be explained by it. It's unfortunate but I am afraid it's true.
根据智商和《国富论》计，东北亚人的智商更高。世界上很多问题都可以用它来解释。很不幸，但恐怕这是真的。
According to “Wealth of Nations,” the IQ of Southeast Asia ranges from 86 to 96. For reference, the Irish IQ was 87 in the 70s, but Ireland has since improved and become a developed country. There’s no reason why Southeast Asia can’t do the same as its wealth grows and living conditions improve in the coming decades.
Besides, Northeast Asians and Southeast Asians are virtually the same race, genetically. Studies show both groups cluster together or next to each other in DNA analyses, even more than Northeast Asians and Central Asians/Siberians do. There’s no scientific evidence that sextive pressures conferred higher intelligence in one group versus the other.
Finally, Southeast Asia was historically a thriving center of civilization, engineering, and economic influence in premodern times, leaving behind some of the world’s greatest monuments and developing a number of inventions that have been adopted by various non-SE Asian civilizations across Northeast Asia, India, the Middle East, and Africa. See my answer for details:
根据《国富论》，东南亚人的智商在86到96之间。作为参考，爱尔兰人的智商在70年代是87，但后来爱尔兰提高了，成为了一个发达国家。随着未来几十年财富的增长和生活条件的改善，东南亚没有理由不能做到这一点。
此外，东北亚人和东南亚人在基因上几乎是同一个种族。研究表明，在DNA分析中，这两个群体的重叠或相邻，甚至比东北亚人和中亚人/西伯利亚人的数量还要多。没有科学证据表明，选择性压力在一组人中比另一组人更聪明。
最后，东南亚在历史上是前现代文明、工程和经济影响的繁荣中心，留下了一些世界上最伟大的纪念碑，并发展了许多发明，这些发明被东北亚、印度、中东和非洲的各种非东南亚文明所采用。
As Southeast-Asian people, to be exact from Indonesia, I think my knowledge as a local is capable enough to answer this question. My opinion here might be offensive but let’s admit that it’s true, if I did something wrong please discuss it together in the comment section.
The first reason why Southeast-Asian countries are poorer than East Asia I think is because their political environment is very unstable. Southeast-Asian countries will have a completely different political environment and rules in just 5 years (after the PM or the President changes). Ie: in the previous era, the government rule is bad, arrogant, corrupt, etc and in the next era, the government rule is great for both its citizen and investment, boosting infrastructure and the country’s development, etc. In one political election, it could flip the county’s main rule and political view 180 degrees.
作为东南亚人，确切地说，来自印度尼西亚，我认为我作为一个当地人的知识足以回答这个问题。我的观点可能有点冒犯，但让我们承认这是真的，如果我做错了什么，请在评论区一起讨论。
我认为东南亚国家比东亚贫穷的第一个原因是因为他们的政治环境非常不稳定。东南亚国家将在短短5年内(在总理或总统改变之后)拥有完全不同的政治环境和规则。例如:在前一个时代，政府规则是坏的、傲慢的、腐败的，等等，在下一个时代，政府规则对照顾公民和处理投资上都是优秀的，促进了基础设施和国家的发展，等等。在一次政治选举中，它可能会让这个国家的主要规则和政治观点发生180度的转变。
The last and main reason why Southeast-Asian countries are poorer than East Asia is simply that our countries are corrupt as hell. As I’ve said before, in one political era it could be heavily corrupt and in another era, it could be heavily clean and boost its country’s development. This kind of pattern is really bad as the development becomes unsustainable.
Bonus: 3 out of 10 most corrupt leaders are from Southeast-Asia :D
另一个原因是，与东亚国家相比，东南亚的技术开发费用只是杯水车薪。在一些国家，如印度尼西亚，其主要支出用于基础设施和军事，其余用于教育和医疗，技术发展几乎不存在，因为它只占其GDP的0.4%(如果我错了，请纠正我)。
东南亚国家比东亚贫穷的最后一个主要原因是我们的国家腐败得要命。就像我之前说过的，在一个政治时代，它可能非常腐败，而在另一个时代，它可能非常廉洁，促进了国家的发展。这种模式是非常糟糕的，因为发展变得不可持续。
链接：《10个最腐败的领导人中有3个来自东南亚》
I’d wager its mostly because of mentality, especially the work ethics between dilligent east asian people and laxed southeast asian people. Heres the funny thing, people who lived in tropical/sunny climate tended to be more relaxed compare to people who lived in sub tropical. This is also happened in Europe, i remember one German’s mag once created controversy when they compare work ethic between german people and portugese.
我敢打赌，这主要是因为心态，尤其是勤奋的东亚人和懈怠的东南亚人之间的职业道德。
有趣的是，生活在热带/阳光充足的人往往比生活在亚热带的人更放松。这也发生在欧洲，我记得一家德国杂志曾经在比较德国人和葡萄牙人的职业道德时引发了争议。
If we think about this further it actually makes sense, just look at how slow the developments of both Southeast Asia and South America are compared to the region that is literally around them but not at the equator climate
如果我们进一步思考这个问题，它实际上是有道理的，只要看看东南亚和南美洲的发展与它们周围非赤道地区相比有多慢。
Really? As far as I know, Singapore is richer than all East Asian countries and It is squarely in Southeast Asia. If you were thinking about the overall average, then it’s mainly due to corruption and incompetence of the leaders in these countries. Also, the opportunities granted to these countries were much less. The US did not invest much in Southeast Asia but she invest so much in South Korea and Japan, for example. The US transferred all the technological know how to these East Asian countries after WWII and Korean War, so these countries had a good start. Also, East Asian countries are on average more hardworking and less corrupt compared to Southeast Asia.
真的吗?据我所知，新加坡比所有东亚国家都富有，它正好在东南亚。如果你考虑的是总体平均水平，那么这主要是由于这些国家领导人的腐败和无能。此外，给予这些国家的机会也少得多。
美国在东南亚投资不多，但在韩国和日本投资很多。二战和朝鲜战争后，美国将所有的技术转让给了这些东亚国家，所以这些国家有了一个良好的开端。此外，与东南亚相比，东亚国家平均而言更勤奋，腐败程度更低。
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According to human history, it is difficult for areas with good natural conditions to breed developed agricultural civilization, and it is difficult for areas with good agricultural conditions to breed developed industrial civilization.
The agricultural conditions in Southeast Asia are better than those in East Asia, which is why they insist on developing agriculture rather than industry, but most of the rich countries are industrial countries. Rich non industrial countries usually start business earlier, Special resource advantages or have a colonial history. But Southeast Asia does not have these opportunities.
So what can Southeast Asia do? my suggestion: Education; Population control; Forget your advantages in agriculture and develop industry. This seems easy, but even India has not been able to do it.
从人类历史来看，自然条件好的地区很难孕育发达的农业文明，农业条件好的地区也很难孕育发达的工业文明。
东南亚的农业条件比东亚好，这就是为什么他们坚持发展农业而不是工业，但大多数富裕国家都是工业国家。富裕的非工业国家通常较早开始经商，有特殊的资源优势或有殖民历史。但东南亚没有这样的机会。
那么东南亚能做些什么呢?我的建议:教育、人口控制。忘记农业的优势，发展工业。这看起来很容易，但就连印度也没能做到。
Actually we, Southeast Asians, are doing fine and living happily. No matter what the GDP is. No, we don’t need you to teach us what to to. Thank you and keep up with your high rate of suicide.
事实上，我们东南亚人过得很好，生活得很幸福。不管GDP是多少。不，我们不需要你教我们做什么。谢谢你，请继续保持你们的高自杀率。
Filipinos (all the Hardworking ones are overseas workers who left the country)
Pinoy attitudes
Mañana habbit (ill do it tommorow)
We have a word for nap (siesta)
At 12 o clock evreything stops for lunch break and comes back at 1:30
A workplace has an unlimited amount of smoke breaks somone can take.
We have hard workers, but you wont find them in the Philipphines since there are about 12 Million Filipinos working abroad.
菲律宾人(所有努力工作的人都是离开菲律宾的海外工人)
懒散态度；
Mañana习惯(明天再做)；
我们专门有一个词来表示午睡；
在12点，一切都停止准备午休，并在1:30回来；
工作场所的吸烟休息时间是不受限制的。
我们有勤奋的工人，但你在菲律宾找不到他们，因为大约有1200万菲律宾人在国外工作。
As an Indian I hope I can lend my proper views.
The work ethic is a bit different in east Asian countries like Japan, Korea and China.
This might offend some south East Asian people what I am about to say. Singapore and Malaysia is definitely developed in South East Asia but Malaysia is not progressing further because of bhumiputro policy.
And a trend which I have seen in thais and Filipinos and little bit in Indonesians . They glorify malls. Whats with the craziness for malls?
They even think mall is a infrastructure. No my friend mall is just Entertainment . When I go to Bangkok or manila I see plenty of malls but no universities or public libraries. Maybe they are there but not visible. On that front Vietnam cherish books more than thais and Filipinos. I go to mall for watching movie , buying some clothes etc , end of day how big malls are doesn't matters .
作为一个印度人，我希望我能发表正确的看法。日本、韩国和中国等东亚国家的职业道德略有不同。
我要说的话可能会冒犯一些东南亚人。新加坡和马来西亚肯定是东南亚的发达国家，但马来西亚因为“马来人优先”（Bhumiputro）政策而没有进一步发展。我在泰国和菲律宾也看到了这种趋势，在印尼也有一些。他们美化购物中心。对购物中心的狂热是怎么回事?
他们甚至认为商场是一种基础设施。不，我的朋友，商场只是娱乐场所。当我去曼谷或马尼拉时，我看到很多购物中心，但没有大学或公共图书馆。也许它们就在那里，但看不到。在这方面，越南比泰国和菲律宾更珍惜书籍。我去商场看电影，买衣服等等，说到底商场有多大并不重要。
Indonesia has a good manufacturing yet not enough for the population same like India but they don't even have a good service economy too.
Some East Asian countries develop all other cities from every front . Their capital city is not everything but some southeast Asia countries seems to worship their capital cities, other cities are not underdeveloped but major wealth creation happens in thier capital cities.
East Asian countries worship education and technology. Some southeast countries are happy with resources but east countries are heavily investing in technology of future.
And corruption is very less in East Asian countries. Vietnam has not been able to build a metro yet .
泰国正在谈论工业4.0，但没有看到民众的推动。我在泰国看到的外国人大多是瑜伽、性爱摄影、退休人员、食物或酒店生意。但在软件方面的投资却很少。
印尼的制造业不错，但与印度一样，不足以满足人口需求，但他们甚至也没有很好的服务业经济。
一些东亚国家从各个方面发展城市。他们的首都不是一切，但一些东南亚国家似乎崇拜他们的首都，其他城市并不发达，但主要的财富创造发生在他们的首都。东亚国家崇尚教育和技术。一些东南亚国家满足于资源，但东方国家正在大力投资未来的技术。
东亚国家的腐败现象也很少，而越南还没有能力建造地铁。
What did you mean by BUMIPUTRA POLICY can't make Malaysia progressive? It just an equity law to support Bumiputra to grow their economy. Yenade.
你说马来人政策不能让马来西亚进步是什么意思?这只是一部支持土著发展经济的衡平法。
Nope. Whatever it is there has been a favoritism towards the malays because they are “ true holders of land”.
This favoritism has ruined a lot of Malays out there who think they are entitled to the perks of government and thinks big of themselves. Otherwise malays can also be some of the nicest people in the world.
没有。无论如何，马来人一直受到优待，因为他们是“真正的土地所有者”。
这种偏袒已经毁掉了很多马来人，他们认为自己有资格享受政府的特权，并自视甚高。若非如此，马来人也可以是世界上最优秀的人之一。
Why is SE Asia is poorer than E Asia? One simple reason would be corruption.
Transparency International (TI), an international NGO founded to combat global corruption, has observed that public institutions in many SE Asian countries lack transparency and accountability. Key anti-corruption laws are also absent with civil society engagement restricted.
Many of the so-called anti-corruption authorities in SE Asian countries fall short of their full potential, often suffering from a lack of operational independence and limited capacities and resources, noted TI. More than half of the people surveyed in SE Asia by TI felt that corruption has actually increased in the region.
Countries that are afflicted by a high level of corruption, which involves the misuse of power in the form of money or authority to achieve certain goals in illegal, dishonest, or unfair ways, are not capable of prospering fully. Corrupted economies are not able to function properly because it prevents the natural laws of the economy from functioning freely. The people who are "connected" in these corrupted countries will continue to do well at the expense of the rest of the population. The rich will become richer while the poor becomes poorer. The income gap would only continue to drift further apart. As a result of corruption, an entire society suffers except for those minority of "connected" rich.
为什么东南亚比东亚穷?一个简单的原因是腐败。
透明国际(TI)是一个旨在打击全球腐败的国际非政府组织，它观察到许多东南亚国家的公共机构缺乏透明度和问责制。关键的反腐败法律也不存在，民间社会的参与受到限制。
透明国际指出，东南亚国家许多所谓的反腐败机构未能充分发挥其潜力，往往缺乏运作独立性，能力和资源有限。透明国际在东南亚进行的调查显示，超过一半的人认为该地区的腐败现象实际上有所增加。
腐败现象严重的国家，即滥用金钱或权力等形式的权力，以非法、不诚实或不公平的方式达到某些目标的国家，无法实现全面繁荣。腐败的经济无法正常运转，因为它阻碍了经济的自然法则自由运转。在这些腐败的国家里，那些“有关系”的人将以牺牲其他人口为代价继续过得很好。富人将变得更富，穷人将变得更穷。收入差距只会继续扩大。由于腐败，除了少数“有关系”的富人，整个社会都在受苦。
In any case, back to the question of why SE Asia is generally poorer to E Asia, we can take a look at the following statistics based on 2019 data:
历史一次又一次地表明，当穷人再也无法忍受时，叛乱和革命通常就会随之而来。例如，中国国民党的普遍腐败，经常被认为是1949年中国共产党人民解放军击败国民党的一个重要因素。虽然国民党军队最初装备更好，人数也更占优势，但国民党猖獗的腐败损害了它的声望，限制了它的支持基础，并帮助了共产党的宣传战。事实上，在1945年到1949年的中国内战期间，许多国民党军队甚至在对国民党政府失去信心后叛逃到解放军。
无论如何，回到为什么东南亚普遍比东亚更穷的问题，我们可以根据2019年的数据看一下以下统计数据:
东南亚
东亚
Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI) is the index published by TI which ranks 180 countries "on a scale from 100 (very clean) to 0 (highly corrupt)".
Now, if we put all the SE Asian and E Asian countries together and plot the a graph based on their CPI and GDP per capita, we can begin to see a trend:
清廉指数(CPI)是透明国际公布的一项指数，该指数对180个国家进行了“从100(非常清廉)到0(高度腐败)”的排名。
现在，如果我们把所有东南亚和东亚国家放在一起，并根据他们的CPI和人均GDP绘制一张图表，我们可以开始看到一个趋势:
The conclusion is: the least corrupt a country is, the higher is its GDP (per capita). Among the above countries, TI ranked Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia as most corrupt. Their GDP per capita is also the lowest. That is to say, they are the poorest.
结论是：一个国家的腐败程度越低，其人均GDP就越高。在上述国家中，透明国际将缅甸、老挝和柬埔寨列为最腐败的国家。他们的人均GDP也是最低的。也就是说，他们是最穷的。
Countries like Japan and Korea called Northeast Asia
像日本和韩国这样的国家被称为东北亚
No, they are called East Asia. Northeast is an unofficial term. East Asia consists of the countries of China, Japan, and North/South Korea. Sometimes it includes Mongolia, which is usually classified as Central Asia instead. At one point it included Vietnam as well, but they are part of SEA now.
不，他们叫东亚。东北亚是一个非官方的说法。
东亚由中国、日本和朝鲜/韩国组成。有时也包括蒙古，而蒙古通常被归类为中亚。在某一时刻，它也包括越南，但他们现在是东南亚的一部分。链接：《东亚》——维基
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China’s GDP per capita overtakes Malaysia’s now.
All of East Asia are in Sinoshpere or Chinese cultural sphere or Confucian culture sphere except Mongolia. Singapore is also within Chinese cultural sphere despite the geological location.
Japan and Korea didn’t even have an indigenous writting system of their own for most of their written history, they had written in Classical Chinese Language and Chinese characters until the 19th century and their cultures are sub-cultures under the Chinese civilization.
中国的人均GDP现在已经超过了马来西亚。
除蒙古外，所有东亚国家都在中国文化圈或中华文化圈或儒家文化圈。尽管地理位置不同，新加坡也在中华文化范围内。
日本和韩国在他们大部分的书面历史中甚至没有自己的本土书写系统，他们一直都是用文言文和汉字书写一直到19世纪，他们的文化是中华文明下的亚文化。
Many southeast asians who migrate to east asia are hardworking and talented in their fields of work. If they’re like that, why does Southeast asia remain poor. It’s because of their Governments. Many governments in that area are led by corrupt and inefficient leaders who think only of themselves and not of their fellowmen. Many others are engaged in War that’s why they have no time to uploft the lives of their people. Many of them are import economies and not export oriented economies like China, Japan and Korea. They import more than they export, that’s why they have a deficit in dollar budget.
If only the leaders were disciplined, Southeast asia will be much prosperous.
许多移民到东亚的东南亚人在他们的工作领域都很勤奋和有才华。
所以为什么东南亚仍然贫穷？这是因为他们的政府。该地区的许多政府都由腐败低效的领导人领导，他们只考虑自己而不考虑同胞。许多其他国家正在卷入战争，这就是为什么他们没有时间改善人民的生活。其中许多国家是进口经济体，而不是像中国、日本和韩国这样的出口导向型经济体。他们的进口大于出口，这就是为什么他们的美元预算出现赤字。
只要领导人自律，东南亚才会更加繁荣。
The question is not valid. If you think that East Asia only has China, Japan and South Korea. In fact, East Asia currently has five recognized countries. 8 regions. Five countries Japan South Korea China Mongolia North Korea. 8 regions. Japan Korea China Mongolia North Korea Taiwan Hong Kong Macau. Macau and Hong Kong are special administrative regions of China. They have their own government but no sovereignty. Taiwan claims to be a country but the international community does not recognize it. It is more obxtive to classify Taiwan as a region. Mongolia and North Korea are poorer than many Southeast Asian countries. Malaysia is still a little more developed than China.. So it is not East Asia that is more developed than Southeast Asia.
这个问题是无效的。如果你认为东亚只有中国，日本和韩国。事实上，东亚目前有五个被承认的国家。8个地区。五个国家——日本，韩国，中国，蒙古，朝鲜。8个地区——日本，韩国，中国，蒙古，朝鲜，台湾，香港，澳门。澳门和香港是中国的特别行政区。
他们有自己的政府，但没有主权。台湾自称是一个国家，但国际社会不承认它。把台湾划分为一个地区比较客观。蒙古和朝鲜比许多东南亚国家更穷。马来西亚还是比中国发达一点。所以东亚并不是比东南亚更发达。