（下）北美被欧洲人殖民，留下了大部分白人人口，但墨西哥也被欧洲人殖民，为什么他们不以白人为主?
America was colonized by Europeans, leaving a mostly white population- But Mexico was also colonized by Europeans, why aren''t they predominantly white?
译文简介
据记载，美国人故意将感染天花的毯子送给美洲原住民，作为种族灭绝的礼物。
正文翻译
America was colonized by Europeans, leaving a mostly white population- But Mexico was also colonized by Europeans, why aren't they predominantly white?
北美被欧洲人殖民，留下了大部分白人人口，但墨西哥也被欧洲人殖民，为什么他们不以白人为主?
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It’s recorded that the Americans purposefully gave smallpox infested blankets to Native Americans as a genocidal gift. They knew exactly what they were doing.
据记载，美国人故意将感染天花的毯子送给美洲原住民，作为种族灭绝的礼物。他们很清楚自己在做什么。
Not actually true. Just an urban legend from back in the sixties.
事实并非如此。只是60年代的一个都市传说。
I am not a virologist but I heard a virologist speak on this very topic. He claimed that of all the ways to spread smallpox using fabric and blankets would be the least effective. He said that smallpox was spread almost exclusively through saliva contact, by aerosol spray between two people having a conversation in close proximity. This makes perfect sense. Portuguese, Spanish, French, British also colonial citizens all took turns inadvertently spreading smallpox to the new world over hundreds of years. Lewis and Clark found major encampments of Indians devastated by disease on their expedition in 1805 indicating this problem was long underway prior to western settlements and the Indian wars.
Except it was an old world virus and the Native American including South and Central America died in droves just like the first few generations of Europeans did when the cycle began with them. I’ve seen No reliable evidence that anything was deliberate or purposely inflicted with any precision.
我不是病毒学家，但我听过一位病毒学家就这个话题发表的演讲。他声称，在所有传播天花的方法中，利用织物和毯子传播天花的效果最差。他说，天花几乎只通过唾液接触传播，通过近距离交谈的两个人之间的“喷雾”传播。这很有道理。葡萄牙人，西班牙人，法国人，英国人还有殖民地居民在几百年的时间里轮流在不经意间把天花传播到新世界。刘易斯和克拉克在1805年的探险中发现印第安人的主要营地被疾病摧毁，这表明这个问题在西部定居和印第安战争之前就已经存在了很久。
只不过这是一种旧世界的病毒，包括南美和中美洲在内的美洲原住民成群结队地死亡，就像最初几代欧洲人在疫情开始时一样。我没见过任何可靠的证据证明这是蓄意或故意造成的。
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That is a very salient fact about the “smallpox blanket” theory. Normal human contact from day to day interactions spread the disease quickly and with horrible efficiency. Risking your life by handling infected blankets was pointless. It was going to happen and the horrible effects would be so widespread that you would have no way of knowing if you accomplished your wicked purpose.
这是“天花毯”理论的一个突出事实。日常交往中的正常人际接触会迅速传播疾病，效率惊人。冒着生命危险处理被感染的毯子毫无意义。它终将发生，可怕的影响将如此广泛，你将无法知晓你是否完成了你邪恶的目的。
It is actually true.
In 1763 at Fort Pitt, what would become modern day Pittsburgh, the fort’s 22-year-old commander, Captain Simeon Ecuyer gave the indigenous people several smallpox-infested items.
A militia captain William Trent wrote in his journal, “We gave them two blankets and a handkerchief out of the smallpox hospital… I hope it will have the desired effect.”
Inside The Troubling History Of How Smallpox Blankets Were Intentionally Given To Indigenous Americans
这是事实。
1763年，在皮特堡，也就是现在的匹兹堡，22岁的指挥官西蒙·厄库耶上尉给了当地居民一些天花感染的物品。
民兵队长威廉·特伦特在他的日记中写道:“我们从天花医院给了他们两条毯子和一条手帕……我希望这能达到预期的效果。”
链接：《关于天花毯子是如何被故意提供给美洲土著人的令人不安的历史》
An incident that may have occurred before United States existed and could have affected a few dozen people is not evidence of official government policy or popular action for a nation that did not exist in 1763. The letter suggesting this sort of action was famously written by General Jeffrey Amherst, who was British and famously did not like either Native Americans or American colonials.
一件可能发生在美国存在之前，可能影响到几十个人的事件，并不能证明是1763年一个国家的官方政府政策或民众行动，那时国家都还不存在。
这封建议采取这种行动的信是由杰弗里·阿默斯特将军写的，他是英国人，出了名的不喜欢印第安人和美国殖民者。
For the people who purposely hunted almost all the buffaloes to extinction so the indigenous people would be deprived of their major living resource, I would not be surprised if they did give smallpox contaminated clothes to native people, maybe as a common practice, not a government official policy.
对于那些故意捕杀几乎所有水牛，使土著居民失去主要生活资源的人来说，如果他们确实给土著居民提供受天花污染的衣服，我不会感到惊讶，也许这是一种常见的做法，而不是政府的官方政策。
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To repeat, there is no historical evidence whatsoever of deliberate use of “smallpox blankets” among Americans or Europeans. It is just historical gossip.
重申一下，没有任何历史证据表明美国人或欧洲人故意使用“天花毯”。这只是历史上的八卦。
Spencer gave you a well documented one. You can claim it's not done by American government officially, because it did not exist yet then. But it's definitely done by an European, a British exactly.
And to be honest, I don't think passing smallpox contaminated blankets to natives is much worse than killing all your enemy's crops and herds and burning their houses down. We as human have been practicing those in a long history.
Spencer给你的证据很充分。你可以说这不是美国政府官方做的，因为那时候还不存在。但肯定是欧洲人干的，确切地说是英国人
说实话，我并不认为把被天花污染的毯子交给当地人比杀死敌人所有的庄稼和牲畜并烧毁他们的房子更糟糕。我们人类在漫长的历史中一直在实践这些。
Again, Spencer provided one anecdote about small-pox blankets with no context to indicate that it represented any sort of common practice. It is like claiming Victorian Britain was a murderous society by telling a story about Jack the Ripper.
还是那句话，Spencer提供的是一个关于天花毛毯的轶事，没有历史背景表明它代表了任何一种常见的做法。
这就像通过讲述开膛手杰克的故事来宣称维多利亚时代的英国是一个凶残的社会。
Great answer, as always. One question: I recall Bernal Diaz Del Castillo repeatedly writing that the obxtive of the Cortes expedition was to open up trade with whatever kingdom/nation they found (and Christianize it if it wasn’t already Chrisitian, of course). Was he softsoaping the obxtive of conquest?
I’ve felt Cortes gets something of a bum rap (unlike Pizarro, who was truly a bastard).
答得好，一如既往。
我有一个问题：我记得贝尔纳尔·迪亚兹·德尔·卡斯蒂洛反复写道，科尔特斯探险队的目标是与他们发现的任何王国/民族开放贸易(当然，如果它还不是基督教的，那就把它基督教化)。他是在讨好征服的目标吗?
我觉得科尔特斯受到了不公正的惩罚(不像皮萨罗，后者是个真正的混蛋)。
Wish that more responses on Quora were this thoughtful and thorough instead of the self-righteous, all-knowing, indignant and pompous BS generated mostly by a few of the Brits.
希望Quora上更多的回答是这样深思熟虑和彻底的，而不是那些自以为是、无所不知、愤愤不平和浮夸的废话，这些废话大多是由几个英国人写的。
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because they intermarried with the native population of Indians. To this day you can see Mayan and Aztec ancestry in the facial construct of Mexicans and central Americans. Spaniards are Caucasian Europeans.
因为他们与当地的印第安人通婚。直到今天，你还可以在墨西哥人和中美洲人的面部构造中看到玛雅人和阿兹特克人的祖先。西班牙人是欧洲白人。
I am from NW Ohio and familiar with Tecumseh and Blue Jacket. I live not too far from where Col Crawford was killed, and the battle on the Maumee River. Ohio has a lot of Indian history. Just not as well known as the west
我来自俄亥俄州西北部，熟悉特库姆塞和蓝夹克。我住的地方离克劳福德上校被杀的地方不远，还发生过莫米河战役。俄亥俄州有很多印第安人的历史。只是不像西方那么有名。
Different colonial systems and settlement patterns.
To be very blunt, the Anglo system was way more overtly racist. Broadly speaking, they simply didn’t want to incorporate Natives into their society, at any level. There might be some individual exceptions, where certain leaders or progressive thinkers of their era who might have been open to the idea of European-Native mixing, but that was not the common view anyway. And the jurisprudence or socio-political structures reinforced this sort of bigotry/racism.
Secondly, the settlement of this country involved way more European females and larger family units. Meaning, these settlers came with their women or larger families to take up lands in the “New World.” They weren’t interested in living with indigenous inhabitants.
（北美和中美洲是）不同的殖民制度和定居模式。
坦率地说，盎格鲁的教育体系更加明显地带有种族主义色彩。一般来说，他们单纯是不想在任何层面上把原住民纳入他们的社会。可能会有个别的例外，他们那个时代的某些领导人或进步思想家可能会对欧洲人和土著的融合持开放态度，但这并不是普遍的观点。法理学或社会政治结构强化了这种偏见/种族主义。
其次，这个国家的定居涉及了更多的欧洲女性和更大的家庭单位。也就是说，这些移民者带着他们的女性或大家庭来到“新世界”占据土地。他们对与土著居民一起生活不感兴趣。
And these early attitudes and political positions actually entrenched demographic trends, which we still see to this very day.
西班牙殖民地的情况则截然不同。虽然存在某种种族化的制度，欧洲人占据了权力和财富的位置，但土著人民实际上被纳入了殖民社会。事实上，他们甚至是被迫这样做的(见:生态系统)。无论如何，跨国婚姻更容易被接受，甚至是常态。与女性相比，来到殖民地的单身男性也多得多。他们经常和土著女性勾搭在一起。
这些早期的态度和政治立场实际上确立了人口趋势，直到今天我们仍然可以看到。
在盎格鲁殖民地区，主流或白人社会的混居较少。部落居民没有对旧大陆疾病的天然免疫力，因此死亡率非常低。然而，在西班牙地区，早期的混居情况产生了具有一定自然免疫力的混血人口。因此，有一个相对健康的人口，并继续扩大和增长。事实上，这在西班牙殖民地区造成了混血效应。基本上，这些人口中的大多数是早期的混血儿或三种族血统的后裔，例如西班牙人、美洲原住民和非洲人的混合血统。
这种混合种族的人口有更多的社会流动性。因此，今天，大多数拉丁美洲国家的公民都有相当多的非欧洲血统(也许阿根廷除外，该国的欧洲移民模式更为持久)。这里仍然存在某种程度的种族分层或等级制度，但与美国的情况完全不同。
Of course, there was mixing that took place, but it has a very distinct gene flow pattern or disposition within these three groups — Black, White and Native. There’s a very high level of default European admixture in the African American population, due in large measure to slave rape or sexual exploitation of Black females by European men. The mixed offspring of illicit unxs would retain the slave or “Black” status of the mother. Paternity was usually denied. And only small numbers could ever cross that color line…where a person of mixed African-European ancestry could cross over and just be “White” (rather than “mulatto” or Black).
The intermarriage between Natives and Whites was almost exclusively restricted to Native communities and territories. The gene flow is also very distinct in those cases as well. There a high level of European admixture in the Native community. And there is very little in the White-identified population (non-Hispanic).
盎格鲁殖民时期和后来的美国，都试图控制基因的流动，维持种族的界限。大多数原住民直到1924年才成为美国公民。在大多数地方和很长一段时间内，黑人和白人的婚姻都是非法的。
当然，发生过通婚，但在这三个群体中——黑人、白人和土著——有非常不同的基因流动模式或倾向。在非裔美国人中，欧洲人的比例非常高，这在很大程度上是因为欧洲人强奸奴隶或对黑人女性进行性剥削导致的。
非法结合的混血后代将保留母亲的奴隶或“黑人”身份。父子关系通常被否认。只有一小部分人能够跨过这条肤色线。
土著人和白人之间的通婚几乎仅限于土著社区和领土。在这些情况下，基因流动也非常明显。在土著社区中有大量的欧洲混血儿。在白人(非西班牙裔)人群中，这种情况非常少。
I think you are omitting the biggest factor: there were simply a lot more natives in Mexico than the present-day USA. Tenochtitlan alone was quite possibly the largest city in the world at the time, with no equivalent to the north.
我认为你忽略了最重要的因素:墨西哥的土著人口比现在的美国要多得多。特诺奇蒂特兰很可能是当时世界上最大的城市，北美不存在与之相当的城市。
Exactly. English settlers tried to emulate the Spanish system of inserting themselves into (i.e. hijacking) the social order, but North America was too sparsely populated for that to support a colonial system.
完全正确。英国移民试图效仿西班牙的制度，将自己插入(即劫持)社会秩序中，但北美人口过于稀少，无法支撑殖民制度。
what people forget when they speak of the upwards of 90% of indians who died of diseases, is that mexico and some central americans countries were fairly densely populated for the time. An estimated 30 million+ in Mexico may have resulted in just 3 million, but they would then re-populate generation after generation way before Spain or any European country had the maritime technology to send hundreds of thousands of immigrants/settler. That would not occur till the latter half of the 19th century. Thats why all these countries, and in south america too, are mestizo countries.
当人们谈到90%以上的印度人死于疾病时，他们忘记了墨西哥和一些中美洲国家当时人口相当密集。据估计，墨西哥的3000多万人口可能只剩下300万，但在西班牙或任何欧洲国家拥有运送数十万移民/定居者的海洋运输技术之前，他们就会一代又一代地重新定居。
这直到19世纪下半叶才发生。这就是为什么所有这些国家，包括南美洲，都是混血儿国家。
There were a lot more Spanish women traveling to the Americas than most people think, but as many of them took up with natives as hooked up with other peninsulares. Mestizaje worked for both possible combinations, not only “European male and American female”.
And the reaction of the Spaniards to “people are getting sick and dying in droves” was “let’s build hospitals.” Hispaniola’s opened in 1506 (previously there had only been an infirmary), the first two on the actual continental landmass opened in Tenochtitlán in 1524 (one of them is still in operation).
去美洲旅居的西班牙女性比大多数人想象的要多得多，但她们中与当地人交往的人和与其他半岛交往的人一样多。这两种通婚都是通婚，不仅仅局限于“欧洲男性和美洲女性”。
西班牙人对"人们成群结队地生病和死亡"的反应是"我们建医院吧"。伊斯帕尼奥拉岛的医院于1506年开放(之前只有一间医务室)，1524年，该大陆历史上首两家医院在Tenochtitlán开放(其中一家仍在运营)。
I am Mexican. I have this tri-racial mixture. Your answer is very clear and comprehensive. I would only add that in Mexico particularly, there is an uneven distribution of the white European component with a prence in the north of the country, while the African component is more prent in the south where I am from. There is an Asian component as well, with successive Japanese, Chinese and Korean migration in the 19th century, all of them fully integrated into the Mexican mixture through marriage as well.
我是墨西哥人。我有三种种族的混血。
你的回答非常清楚和全面。我只想补充一点，特别是在墨西哥，欧洲白人的比例分布不均匀，在该国北部普遍存在，而非洲人的比例在我来自的南部更普遍。
也有亚洲人，在19世纪，日本人、中国人和韩国人相继移民，他们都通过婚姻完全融入了墨西哥社会。
There are 18 prior answers here, and Wes Frank’s is full of useful comparative information on the relative population size of the indigenous people in the tropic regions versus North America, while many of the rest are just used as vessels for more anti-American slurs. But even Wes Frank misses the key points.
First: The tropic regions that were the focus of Spain - Venezuela, the Caribbean, and southern Mexico - were entirely different in terms of climate, and thus of agriculture, from Spain and Portugal. A person skilled in farming in Spain and Portugal could not apply those agricultural skills in the American regions Spain claimed. Thus there was no reason for any Spanish or Portuguese commoner to go, because any such commoner would be going to a region in which he had no skills to apply to survive. In contrast, North America, focused on by Britain, was basically the same climate as Britain, and thus basically the same agriculture as Britain. A commoner could go from Britain to British America and find a land in which the skills learned in Britain were useful skills in America.
在我回答之前，这里已经有18个答案，Wes Frank的答案充满了关于热带地区土著居民与北美土著居民相对人口规模的、有用的比较信息，而其余的许多答案只是被用作更多反美诽谤的载体。但即使是Wes Frank也没有抓住关键。
首先，西班牙关注的热带地区——委内瑞拉、加勒比海和墨西哥南部，在气候和农业方面与西班牙和葡萄牙完全不同。一个在西班牙和葡萄牙拥有农业技术的人无法在西班牙宣称的美洲地区应用这些农业技术。因此，任何西班牙或葡萄牙平民都没有理由去，因为任何这样的平民都将去一个他没有任何生存技能的地区。相比之下，以英国为重点的北美地区，气候与英国基本相同，农业也与英国基本相同。一个平民可以从英国到英属美洲找到一块土地，在那里，在英国学到的技能在美洲也是有用的技能。
Second: There was, so far as I can tell, no pre-existing system of hired, rentable shipping out of Spain to take settlers to Spanish America. Britain had developed a system of private economic commerce that did not develop in Spain. The New England Pilgrims in 1620 rented the ships they took, the Mayflower and the Speedwell (which turned back, perhaps sabotaged by reluctant sailors). I have never heard that private commoners in Spain could rent merchant ships.
Thus, even if there had been commoners who wanted to go to Spanish America, there was no merchant-commerce system by which they could rent ships and go.
因此，西班牙和葡萄牙的平民没有经济动机去西属美洲，因为没有办法在那里应用已知的技能来过上更好的生活。
其二，据我所知，当时还没有从西班牙租用船只，将定居者带到西属美洲的体系。英国发展了西班牙没有发展的私人经济商业体系。1620年，新英格兰清教徒就是租用了他们乘坐的船——五月花号和斯比得韦尔号(这两艘船可能是被不情愿的水手破坏了)。我从未听说过西班牙的平民可以租用商船。
因此，即使有平民想去西属美洲，他们也没有可以租船前往的商贸系统。
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The question only asks about Mexico, but if we consider the broader question of all of South America, and consider the regions of South America that would have a climate like Spain’s, that requires a voyage all the way to today’s Argentina - twice the sailing distance as Britain to Massachusetts and Virginia.
第三，从西班牙到墨西哥、加勒比海和委内瑞拉的航行距离比从英国到马萨诸塞州和弗吉尼亚州的航行距离更长、更困难。因此，即使有大量的平民想要重新定居，并且有一个可供他们租用的航运体系，航行的难度也会大得多，航行的成本也会大得多。
这个问题只涉及到墨西哥，但如果我们考虑到整个南美洲的更广泛的问题，并考虑到南美地区的气候如果要像西班牙一样，这就需要一路航行到今天的阿根廷——这是英国到马萨诸塞州和弗吉尼亚州的航行距离的两倍。
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第四，航海的政治动机不同。西班牙的政府派出了军官，意图征服富含金银的地区。西班牙的政策一直是由贵族进行军事征服，这些贵族会向君主汇报。英国的政府，以及后来的联合王国，从来没有这样做过。1607年詹姆斯敦的努力是一次商业冒险，以获取原材料；1620年普利茅斯的努力是为了宗教自由。英国政府并没有进行征服——它只是允许那些出于自己的原因想去的人去，并要求分享金银，并预计对新殖民者产生的出口征税。
因此，西班牙政府并没有促进讲西班牙语的白人大规模定居，除了那些期望成为顺从的土著居民指挥官的人之外，没有任何基于个人动机的人会讲西班牙语。英国政府没有主动派遣征服者，也没有积极推动讲英语的白人大规模定居，但讲英语的人有独立的、自利的动机：即建立不受英国贵族阶级控制的新生活。英国国王把自治作为一种激励，许多英国工人阶级认为这已经足够好了。
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It has been estimated that over 1.86 million Spaniards emigrated to Latin America in the period between 1492 and 1824, with millions more continuing to immigrate following independence. Reference: MacIas, Rosario Marquez; MacÍas, Rosario Márquez (1995). La emigración española a América, 1765–1824. ISBN 9788474688566.
This is not an insignificant number either. It probably exceeds pre-1776 British migration to America, and far exceeds French migration to Canada. Spanish migration after the very beginning did include women and families.
链接：《西班牙的美洲殖民史》——维基
“据估计，在1492年至1824年期间，有超过186万西班牙人移民到拉丁美洲，独立后还有数百万人继续移民。”
这不是一个微不足道的数字。它可能超过了1776年以前英国移民到美国的人数，也远远超过了法国移民到加拿大的人数。从一开始，西班牙的移民就包括了妇女和家庭。
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