特朗普正秘密商谈，意图再次收购格陵兰岛

pheddx
What is this headline? Denmark legally CAN'T sell Greenland even if they wanted to. They'd need to change their laws, that would take years. And then Greenland would have a say in the matter.
They've been very clear about all of this.

这标题是什么鬼？就算丹麦想卖格陵兰，从法律上也根本做不到。他们必须修改法律，而那得花上好几年时间。而且格陵兰本身也会对此有发言权。
丹麦在这些问题上一直说得很清楚。

Commonmispelingbot
The funny thing is that if he had went with "Denmark's hegemony over Greenland is unjust, and we work towards an independent Greenland" he would already have achieved his goal. But of course he couldn't possibly conceive of that idea.

有意思的是，如果特朗普当初说的是“丹麦对格陵兰的霸权是不公正的，我们将推动格陵兰独立”，那他现在早就达到目的了。但他显然根本不可能想到这种思路。

fixminer
But he doesn’t want an independent Greenland, he wants to own it. And since Greenland doesn’t want to join the US, he would then have to annex it, which would be a diplomatic disaster.

但特朗普并不想要一个独立的格陵兰，他是想拥有它。而既然格陵兰不想加入美国，那他就只能去吞并它，而那将会是一场外交灾难。

MercantileReptile
Any more of a diplomatic disaster than the US already caused? The ongoing Hormuz debacle made me worry more about further US actions. They're willing to cause an energy crisis, local famine risk and various industrial supply issues while barely being aware of it.
So them going "just take it lol, there's barely anyone on the 'big piece of ice' " seems entirely in character. Diplomacy clearly ceased to matter to any part of the US.

还会比美国已经造成的外交灾难更严重吗？
正在发生的霍尔木兹海峡乱局让我更担心美国接下来还会做什么。
他们愿意引发能源危机、局部饥荒风险以及各种工业供应问题，而且几乎没有意识到后果。
所以他们来一句“直接拿下就完了，反正那块‘大冰块’上也没多少人”，看起来完全符合他们的风格。外交显然已经不再是美国任何一方在意的事情了。

fixminer
I'm not saying that Trump definitely wouldn't take Greenland to avoid the diplomatic fallout, just that the US would prefer a clean, legal sale, which is why they tried that first.

我不是说特朗普一定不会为了避免外交后果而去拿下格陵兰，我只是说美国会更倾向于一个干净、合法的买卖，这也是他们一开始尝试的方式。

Saurid
Tahts not true greenland wants independence, long term. Currently most greenlanders are fully aware they still need Denmark and the push for independence is about more control. If they truly wanted to leave today nothing would stop them,they dont need trump or the US at all and advocating for it now would also not help since greenland is again aware they know they cannot quite yet go at it completely alone.

这不对。格陵兰从长远来看是想独立的。
目前大多数格陵兰人也非常清楚他们仍然需要丹麦，现在推动独立更多是为了获得更大的自主权。
如果他们真的想今天就离开丹麦，其实没有什么能阻止他们，他们根本不需要特朗普或美国，而且现在为此鼓吹也没有意义，因为格陵兰同样清楚他们暂时还无法完全独立作为国家运作。

Diver_ABC
Denmark would have happily ditched this millstone around their neck. And Greenland would soon have to become a US territory.

丹麦其实很乐意甩掉这个“包袱”。
而格陵兰很快就会变成美国的一个领地。

CucumberWisdom
Legally doesn't really matter. What's going to happen if they break their own laws? Nobody will punish them and the politicians will be long gone by the time it goes through courts

从法律上说其实没那么重要。如果他们违反了自己的法律，会发生什么？没人会惩罚他们，而且等案件走到法院时，那些政客早就离任了。

gentileOx
In a way you're right; legality doesn't matter as much as the fact that Denmark have absolutely no desire to sell Greenland (even if they could). And Greenland doesn't have any desire being a part of the US.

某种程度上你说得对；与其说法律更重要，不如说关键在于丹麦根本没有出售格陵兰的意愿（即使他们可以）。而格陵兰也没有任何想成为美国一部分的意愿。

CucumberWisdom
Yup. In the end that's what really matters. Let the people living there do it

没错。说到底这才是最重要的。让住在格林兰的人自己决定吧。

BassesBest
Unlike the US, the judiciary is not a rubber stamp for autocracy

不像美国，司法系统并不是给专制背书的橡皮图章。

Gaius_Silanus
The Danish supreme Court has only struck down one law, in the entire history of its existence... Now admittedly, it's not set up to be a constitutional court like SCOTUS, but it does hold the authority to strike down laws.

丹麦最高法院在其整个历史中只推翻过一项法律……当然，它本来也不是像美国最高法院那样的宪法法院，但它确实拥有推翻法律的权力。

BassesBest
And the Danish head of state doesn't rule independently of parliament with court backing

而且丹麦的国家元首也不会在法院支持下脱离议会独立执政。

Drahy
Denmark can sell Greenland but will of course not do it.

丹麦可以出售格陵兰，但当然不会这么做。

mrloiter99
Legally it cannot. There is no mechanism for Greenland to be sold. Who would write the check? Legally, the government cannot.

从法律上讲不行。根本没有出售格陵兰的机制。谁来开支票？从法律上来说丹麦政府做不到。

Drahy
The government only needs consent from the parliament as per §19 in the constitution.

政府只需要根据宪法第19条获得议会同意即可。

mrloiter99
That statue literally says they have to amend to constitution in order to pass a treaty that contradicts it by the legislature.

那条规定明确写着，如果要通过与宪法相冲突的条约，就必须由立法机关修宪。

RedditUser000aaa
I know his type. Miserable old geezer who keeps on living out of pure spite, hate and lord knows what else.
It's not just because of the high quality care he's getting as a president, even average miserable geezers somehow end up living to at least 90.
Let's hope the midterms will allow the dems to regain some control. I'm certain he's going to blatantly try and cheat however he can.

我太了解这种人了。一个痛苦不堪的老头，纯靠怨恨、仇视以及天知道什么东西支撑着活着。
不只是因为他作为总统享受着高质量的医疗，就连普通这种性格的老头也往往能活到至少90岁。
希望中期选举能让民主党重新掌握一些控制权。我敢肯定他会尽可能公然作弊。

AstraMilanoobum
I think you over estimate the republicans.
Trump has a certain… charisma that appeals to idiots that is going to be near impossible to replicate.
Trump will be studied in texts books for how unique his reign why. I don’t think you will see anywhere near the control or bullet proof ness of future candidates

我觉得你高估了共和党。
特朗普有一种……对某些愚蠢人群很有吸引力的“魅力”，这种东西几乎不可能复制。
特朗普会作为一个非常独特的执政案例被写进教科书。
我不认为未来的候选人还能达到川普那种程度的控制力或“刀枪不入”的状态。

monkeylovesnanas
I hope you're right. I really do.
Unfortunately, the last couple of years has taught us that at least a third of your populations are so fucking stupid they'd vote for a vegetable, and another third couldn't give two fucks until things start hurting their bottom line.
We can only hope that most of that two thirds gets gmhuet by this administration so badly that they have no choice but to flip.

我希望你是对的，真的希望如此。
不幸的是，过去这几年已经让我们明白，你们至少有三分之一的人蠢到连一颗蔬菜都能投票支持，还有另外三分之一在事情没有伤到自己利益之前根本毫不在意。
我们只能希望，这三分之二中的大多数会被这一届政府狠狠伤到，以至于他们不得不转变立场。

TheIncredibleHeinz
That sounds like pure hopium to me. Trum isn't anything special or unique, you can find a lot of similar guys. Trump has found a formula, there is no obxtive reason why it wouldn't work for others.

这听起来完全像是在自我安慰。
特朗普并没有什么特别或独一无二的地方，这种人到处都能找到。
特朗普只是找到了一个“公式”，没有任何客观理由说明别人不能复制。

Ad7516
He’s a once in a lifetime political operator (don’t mean this as a compliment) who came along at the perfect time to rouse the idiots. None of the potential successors have his charisma and have a hard if not impossible task of maintaining such a broad coalition forced together by cult of personality

特朗普是那种一生只会出现一次的政治操盘手（这不是夸奖），恰好在最合适的时机出现，把那些“蠢人”煽动起来。
他的潜在接班人都没有他的那种个人魅力，要维持这样一个靠个人崇拜勉强拼凑起来的庞大联盟，将会是极其困难甚至不可能的任务。

Educator_2706
As an American I can assure that he's not a once in a lifetime political operator. He is a symptom of a chronic disease. He may die soon, but the disease will continue

作为一个美国人，我可以保证特朗普并不是什么“百年一遇”的政治操盘手。他只是美国某种长期顽疾的一个症状。他也许很快会死去，但这种“病”会继续存在。

Ramboxious
Despite Dems not being useful, every left-leaning person should vote for them, yes?

尽管民主党并不怎么有用，但所有偏左的人还是都应该投他们一票，对吗？

PatientInitial882
Just don't expect them to do anything more than halt the funding for more ICE, and more war. Bans on abortion will not be reversed, but there will be some cautious movement on allowing states to set some childcare rules.
They won't be turning the tide back, they will just want to stop it, because Republican focus groups, and looking forward, not back.
But in this clusterfuck, no more deterioration IS a victory, as weak and pathetic as it is.

只是别指望民主党能做什么，顶多也就是阻止给移民与海关执法局（ICE）增加更多资金，以及减少更多战争开支。
堕胎禁令不会被推翻，但在允许各州制定一些托育相关规则方面，可能会有一些谨慎的推进。
他们不会扭转国内局势，只是想把趋势停下来，因为共和党关注的是未来而不是过去。
但在这场一团糟中，不再继续恶化本身就是一种胜利，尽管这听起来很软弱、也很无力。

EggstaticAd8262
As a non American, just how much does the mid term mean in terms of stopping Trump?

作为一个非美国人，中期选举在阻止特朗普方面到底有多重要？

monkeylovesnanas
I'm not American either, but I did live there for the best part of a decade before things went completely to shit. I still have friends there, so I keep abreast of current affairs.
The midterms are super important in order to regain control of government. Trump can throw all the tantrums he wants then (and try to circumvent congress with executive orders), but the reality is that things will be a lot harder for him.
All this nonsense with shutdowns while the GOP play with government workers wages will be gone, hopefully. Impeachment and conviction will certainly be on the table as the votes will be there, but the Democrats will need to grow a backbone to do that. So far they've been cowardly this term.
A big concern is that Vance will take over if Trump gets removed. He's worse, but again, without the house and senate, there's nothing he can do outside of sign executive orders.
Longer term, the Dems need to grow a spine when they get into power. Measures need to be put in place to removal executive orders. The supreme court needs to be cleared out, and all criminals on the current administration need to be convicted for their crimes. None of this will happen.

我也不是美国人，但在情况彻底变糟之前，我在那里生活了将近十年。我在那里还有朋友，所以我一直在关注时事。
中期选举非常重要，因为它关系到重新掌控政府。
到那时，特朗普可以尽情发脾气（也可能试图通过行政命令绕过国会），但现实是事情会变得困难得多。

现在这些政府停摆的闹剧，以及共和党拿政府雇员工资当筹码的情况，希望都会消失。
弹劾和定罪肯定会被摆上台面，因为票数将会足够，但民主党需要有勇气去做。
目前来看他们这一任期表现得相当怯懦。

一个很大的担忧是，如果特朗普被罢免，万斯会接任。
他更糟，但同样，没有众议院和参议院的支持，他也做不了什么，除了签行政命令。
从更长期来看，民主党在掌权时需要更强硬。
必须采取措施限制行政命令的权力。
最高法院需要被“清理”，而现任政府中的所有罪犯都需要被定罪。
这些事情大概都不会发生。

gesocks
Isn't it logical? He needed distraction from the Epstein files, so he threatened to take over Iran. That went the wrong way so he needed a distraction and attacked Iran. That did not work out so good, so he needs to escalate and as distraction invade Greenland when this backfires he will need to escalate and start a war with China. When he finds out that does not work so good he will have to distract us from that and release the Epstein files

这不是很符合逻辑吗？特朗普需要转移对爱泼斯坦文件的注意力，于是威胁要接管伊朗。
事情发展不顺，于是他攻击伊朗作为新的转移手段。
结果还是不理想，所以他需要进一步升级，再通过入侵格陵兰来转移注意力；等这个也失败后，他就会继续升级，发动对中国的战争。
当他发现这也不奏效时，他就不得不再次转移注意力，然后公布爱泼斯坦文件。

o_teu_sqn
Pete Hegseth did a presentation about project called "Greater North America". He showed a coloured map with every area that will be part of it and on that map was Greenland so I don't think they are going to forget it.

皮特·赫格塞斯曾做过一个关于“更大北美”项目的演示。
他展示了一张着色地图，上面标出了所有将被纳入的地区，而格陵兰就在那张地图上，所以我觉得他们不会忘记这个目标。

Lofteed
eventually we should stop to say Trump and start say the USA
this guy is not acting alone and it is about time they stop hiding behind him

也许我们最终应该停止只说“特朗普”，而是开始说“美国”。
这个人不是单独行动的，现在也该停止用他来做挡箭牌了。

Internal-588
It is the USA. Every country was always held accountable for their president actions. 
It is US citizens' fault if he was elected, let's be real. 30% of the population not voting is crazy. 
But i do hope it's a lesson for a lot of people in other country. "I'm not interested in politic" maybe, but the politicians are interested in fucking you over. It's always the most insane, devoted and extremists that vote, so you have a duty to keep your country in line by voting 

这就是美国。每个国家本来就应该为其总统的行为负责。
说到底，如果他被选上，那就是美国公民的问题。
30%的人不投票，这太离谱了。
不过我也希望这能给其他国家的人一个教训。
“我对政治不感兴趣”也许是你的想法，但政客可是很“感兴趣”地在坑你。
投票的往往是最疯狂、最极端、最投入的人，所以你有责任通过投票来让你的国家保持在正轨上。

Lofteed
It is US citizens that are bombing civilians, US citizens that are infiltrating Greenland society, US citizens that are making billions every day by the raise in oil prices, US citizens that are benefiting from Venezuelas oil, US citizens that are dealing with Venezuela new dictators to take that oil
this guy is barely capable to go to the bathroom alone, it s an entire country benefiting and working for him

是美国公民在轰炸平民，是美国公民在渗透格陵兰社会，是美国公民每天从油价上涨中赚取数十亿，是美国公民在利用委内瑞拉的石油，是美国公民在与委内瑞拉的新独裁者打交道以获取这些石油。
这个人连独自去上厕所都困难，这是一个整个国家在为他运作并从中获利。

nternal-588
It is the US citizen, that voted for and didn't vote against him. Maggat are the filth of the earth but those that did not oppose his reign by voting otherwise i would argue are to blame even more. Since Maggat are mentally deficient and/or old people not giving a fuck about the future

是美国公民把他选上去的，也是美国公民没有投票反对他。“Maga”那群人是地球上的垃圾，但我甚至认为那些没有通过投票去反对他统治的人责任更大。因为“Maga”要么是精神上有问题，要么就是一些根本不在乎未来的老年人。

Lofteed
I would argue that even those that voted against him are equally responsible
is not like the Democrats have ever done anything but bombing the middle east or destroy the world economy and reward the very same American elites in the process

我倒觉得，即使是那些投票反对他的人也同样要承担责任。
民主党又不是没干过什么，除了轰炸中东、破坏全球经济之外，还顺便让同一批美国精英从中获利。

rietstengel
Yeah, they love blaming non-voters because they did nothing. Meanwhile they havent done shit themselves since the election 1.5 years ago. No mass protests going on. Just a little parade on a saturday morning every few months.
1.5 years in they cant still pat themselves on the back for voting against trump.

是啊，他们总爱怪不投票的人，说他们什么都没做。
但与此同时，自从1.5年前选举结束后，他们自己也什么都没做。
没有大规模抗议。就只是每隔几个月周六早上搞个小游行。
都1.5年过去了，他们也不能一直靠“我们投票反对了特朗普”来给自己贴金。

Wrenky
We are a very weird country- presidential system and extreme polarization means half the country has been protesting/against Trump since the start, while the other half has been rooting for this.
The only thing that has changed is 10-20% of Republicans are suddenly getting second thoughts, while all Democrats have been furious since the start (just out of power completely)

yes. Half of republicans are outright nazis, the other half are useful idiots, and there is a portion of democrats who chanted "GENOCIDE joe" and had some delusion that Harris would be like Trump so just.... didnt vote. All three of those groups are are to blame, but at least the GENOCIDE joe groups are no longer deluded (I hope?)

我们是一个非常奇怪的国家——总统制再加上极端的政治两极化，意味着从一开始就有一半国家的人在抗议、反对特朗普，而另一半则在支持他。
唯一的变化是，有10%到20%的共和党人开始产生动摇，而所有民主党人从一开始就一直很愤怒（只是完全失去了权力）。

是的。一半的共和党人简直就是纳粹，另一半是“有用的傻子”，而还有一部分民主党人喊着“种族灭绝乔拜登”，幻想哈里斯会和特朗普一样糟，于是干脆……不去投票。
这三类人都有责任，但至少“种族灭绝乔拜登”那一群现在应该不再那么幻想了吧（希望如此？）。

Lofteed
it s not like the democrats never bombed the middle east or crashed the world economy in service of the very same billionaires

说得好像民主党从来没轰炸过中东、也没为了同一批亿万富翁而让全球经济崩溃一样。

Wrenky
Well, yeah its pretty close to exactly that? Iraq & Iran are both Republican excursions with heavy democrat resistance, and Afghanistan is a special case of "we didnt start that one". Or are you saying we shouldn't have targeted/bombed ISIS? or supported Syrian rebels?
If the argument is "well why didn't democrats just leave" once in power, that's generally due to the insane chaos that would cause. You would cause more destruction/death by just up and leaving once there.

嗯，这说法其实并不准确？伊拉克和伊朗基本上都是共和党主导的行动，而且遭到了民主党的强烈反对；阿富汗则是个特殊情况，“不是我们主动挑起的”。还是说你觉得我们不应该打击/轰炸ISIS？或者不该支持叙利亚反对派？
如果你的论点是“那为什么民主党上台后不直接撤军”，通常是因为那样会引发巨大的混乱。一旦贸然撤出，反而可能造成更多破坏和死亡。

AZORxAHAI
It is the U.S.A, always has been. It's in our entire history.
Everyone needs to understand that the US Empire was never on their side. At one point it was so effective in soft power that a lot of the world thought it was, but all Trump has done is stripped the facade away. Trump annexing Greenland is hardly different than the Marshall plan in effect. The Marshall plan forced Western Europe into a dependency on the dollar via soft power and economic maneuvering, not tanks, but it was conquest all the same. Trump annexing Greenland is just the more simplistic, brutalist version of this same behavior we've always demonstrated towards the rest of the world.

这一直就是美国，一直如此。这写在我们的整个历史里。
所有人都需要明白，美国这个帝国从来就不是站在正义那一边的。曾经它在“软实力”上非常成功，以至于世界上很多人以为它是。但特朗普所做的，只是把这层伪装撕掉了。
特朗普吞并格陵兰，与“马歇尔计划”在效果上并没有本质区别。马歇尔计划通过软实力和经济手段，让西欧依赖美元，而不是用坦克，但本质上仍然是一种征服。
特朗普吞并格陵兰，只不过是这种一贯行为更简单、更粗暴的版本。

diamanthaende
Loser completely screwed up Hormuz, so Greenland it is again. Just like the Iran war was a distraction from the Epstein files, this reheated bullshit is a distraction from the disaster in the Gulf.
Not even in their wildest dreams could America’s enemies have wished for a more devastating president than this.

特朗普这个失败者把霍尔木兹彻底搞砸了，于是又回到格陵兰这个话题。
就像对伊朗的战争是为了转移爱泼斯坦文件的注意力一样，这次翻炒的老话题是为了掩盖海湾地区的灾难。
美国的敌人恐怕做梦也想不到会有一个如此“毁灭性”的总统。

Econ_Orc
Greenland just appointed the new negotiator today. (The last one was kicked out when the party she represented desided to resign from the Greenlandic government).
That new negotiator was the leader of the Greenlandic parliament during the first Trump presidency period and did not like Trump. Múte B. Egede was the one that used the sentence Greenland is open for business, not for sale.
So seriously WHO is Trump talking to in secret, his invisible friend?

格陵兰今天刚刚任命了新的谈判代表。（上一位因为其所属政党决定退出格陵兰政府而被撤换。）
这位新谈判代表在特朗普第一任期时曾担任格陵兰议会议长，而且并不喜欢特朗普。
穆特·B·埃格德当时说过一句话：“格陵兰欢迎商业往来，但不出售。”
所以说，特朗普到底是在跟谁秘密谈判？他的隐形朋友吗？

marcoporno
Just like his negotiations with the imaginary more moderate Iranian leaders last week

就像他上周和那些“想象中更温和的伊朗领导人”进行的谈判一样。

litnu12
Politicians that are still pro USA are even worse than pro Russia politicians at this point.

在这个时候，仍然亲美的政客甚至比亲俄的政客还要糟糕。

GrowingHeadache
The problem is that politicians rightfully prefer stability, and we are still enormously intertwined with the US.
they have to pay some lip service until we are more independent. Keep our heads low for a while and move away as fast as possible, without causing instability

问题在于，政客们理所当然更偏好稳定，而我们与美国之间仍然有着极其紧密的联系。
在我们变得更加独立之前，他们不得不做出一些表面上的附和。
暂时低调行事，同时尽可能快地逐步脱离，但又不能引发不稳定。

lolwut778
I guess the illegal war against Iran is not providing enough distraction from the Epstein files anymore. But it's not just him. It is also his enablers. There is a good section of the US government that wants to annex Greenland and Canada.

我猜对伊朗的非法战争已经不足以继续转移人们对爱泼斯坦文件的注意力了。但这不仅仅是他一个人的问题，还有那些支持他的人。美国政府中有相当一部分人希望吞并格陵兰和加拿大。

TheRealMylo
Just waiting for a tweet from the orange f*** that goes like this " China and the US and A have come to an agreement where China can take over Taiwan and we over Greenland... thanks for your attention THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AMEN."

就等着那个橙色混蛋发一条推文吧，大概会是这样：“中国和美国已经达成协议，中国可以接管台湾（地区），我们则接管格陵兰……感谢关注，美国总统，阿门。”

AsparagusFern319
To clarify, even though it doesnt make much difference in the seriousness of the situation. This is about opening those 3 bases for his golden dome project. And its being led, I believe, by a general, not Trump. Not necessarily better, some articles have pointed to it as an attempt to create influence/to intimidate, but it's not talks about buying or taking over the country.

澄清一下，尽管这对事情的严重性影响不大，这实际上是关于为他的“黄金穹顶”项目开放那三个基地的谈判。
而且我认为这是由一位将军主导的，而不是特朗普本人。
这未必更好，有些文章将其解读为一种施加影响或威慑的尝试，但这并不是在讨论购买或接管整个国家。