科技突破！超临界二氧化碳涡轮机发电机组！从此不再是烧开水！网友：博士你分析很好……但我听不懂
It's Happening - China Launches World's First Supercritical CO2 Turbine
译文简介
中国科技突破
正文翻译
评论翻译
很赞 ( 7 )
收藏
中国最近推出了“超碳一号”——首个商业化部署的超临界二氧化碳发电机组，配套一个2×15兆瓦的示范项目。但这是否意味着大家最爱的维多利亚时代蒸汽动力系统就此终结了呢？
@kidnexorite
China has killed the steam engine.
THOMAS NOOOOOOO!!!!
中国杀死了蒸汽机。
托马斯，不！！！！
@defaultvsant
We all know what it means.
China has finally killed the wither. Now they have enough resources to build a beacon!
我们都懂这是什么意思。
中国终于干掉了凋灵（Wither）！现在他们有足够的资源去建造信标（Beacon）了！
@DarthLord52
Love this video. As someone who works with a lot of turbines and compressors whenever I hear people talking about just replacing water/steam as the work fluid in a turbine, I hear people not understanding the insane engineering that modern commercial turbines and compressors have.
非常喜欢这个视频。作为一名经常和涡轮机、压缩机打交道的人，每当我听到有人说“只要把涡轮机里的工质从水/蒸汽换成别的就行”，我就知道他们根本不了解现代商用涡轮机和压缩机背后那些疯狂复杂的工程设计。
@gaobili
Connecting it to waste heat also means that if it fails, it's not the end of the day for the entire facility.
把它连接到余热系统还有一个好处：即使它故障了，整个工厂也不会因此停工。
@classone2010
Some remarks from the chief engineerer in an interview:
In the first few years of the development. When our experiment fails, the bosses came and comfort us saying that it's normal that a new tech fails. But after a few more fails, they stop visiting, knowing that they are out of words that can comfort us.
I would never go build a new set of the generator as a project manager myself again. (He struggled to convince the workers to abandon their previous experiences with conventional steam generator and follow his instructions.)
After the prototype succeeded, many people came to visit. but none of them agreed to try to build one for themselves due to fear of unpredictability of new tech. Except this one steel company. (Which is the steel company in the news).
摘自一次对首席工程师的采访：
“在研发的最初几年，每次实验失败，领导们都会来安慰我们，说新技术失败很正常。但又失败几次后，他们就不再来了——因为他们已经找不到能安慰我们的话了。
我以后绝不会再以项目经理的身份去建这样一套新机组了。”（他当时很难说服工人放弃他们过去使用传统蒸汽发生器的经验，转而听从他的指令。）
“原型机成功后，很多人前来参观，但除了这家钢铁公司（也就是新闻里提到的那家），没人愿意自己尝试建造一台，因为他们害怕这项新技术的不确定性。”
@texasranger24
Love the honesty and critical analysis. If only 10% of the hyped up marketing material presented by other "science influencers" was true we'd be living on Mars today...
喜欢这种坦诚且批判性的分析。如果其他那些“科学网红”吹嘘的营销内容有10%是真的，我们现在早就住在火星上了……
@andrewsuryali8540
This is not the first sCO2 turbine in operation in China. There have been power storage turbines in operation for at least the past 5 years. You can actually compress CO2 to supercritical, store sCO2 for fairly long periods under high pressure, and release it to a turbine when the grid needs it. This has been done in several pilot projects in China. The Chaotan One "revolution" is that this is the first turbine to operate on an actual thermal cycle instead of a pressure cycle like the grid storage units.
这并非中国运行的第一台超临界二氧化碳涡轮机。至少在过去五年里，中国已有用于储能的sCO₂涡轮机在运行。你可以将二氧化碳压缩至超临界状态，在高压下长期储存，等电网需要时再释放驱动涡轮机。中国已有多个此类试点项目。而“超碳一号”的“革命性”在于：这是第一台基于真实热力循环（而非像储能装置那样仅靠压力循环）运行的涡轮机。
@edweeks6423
I worked at a Supercritical coal fired plant. As far as water goes the density of the supercritical fluid at 3500 psi and 1000 deg F is not that different from steam at 2400 psi and 1000 deg. There just isn't a step change in density due to boiling.
我曾在一家超临界燃煤电厂工作过。就水而言，在3500 psi和1000°F下的超临界流体密度，与2400 psi和1000°F下的蒸汽密度其实相差不大。因为没有沸腾过程，所以密度不会发生突变。
@HenrikMyrhaug
Correction: Specific volume = Volume/Mass, not Mass/Volume
it is the same as 1/density
更正：比容 = 体积 / 质量，而不是质量 / 体积。它等于密度的倒数。
@S4tchm0
6:14 Wait, specific volume is supposed to equal the volume per unit mass, which is the reciprocal of density. Here, it says specific volume equals unit mass per volume. Am I missing something or is it a typo?
等等，比容应该是单位质量所占的体积，也就是密度的倒数。但视频里却说比容等于单位体积的质量。是我理解错了，还是这里有笔误？
@Phil-D83
There is a benefit to larger steam turbines (massive mass keeps the frequency stable) versus smaller units
大型蒸汽轮机有一个优势（巨大的转动惯量有助于维持电网频率稳定），这是小型机组比不了的。
@Neoprenesiren
Just to put this into perspective the co2 generators shown have enough pressure to level at least two or three floors of the building from fragmentation or shrapnel.
The reason we ourselves don’t have co2 generators is the safety risk is massive so we are taking it slow.
It’s honestly a very simple engineering problem, but the level of safety required in dealing with these things is massive.
If it fails it’s basically a grenade the size of a room.
打个比方：视频中展示的二氧化碳发电装置内部压力之高，一旦发生破裂或碎片飞溅，足以夷平建筑物两三层楼。
我们自己之所以还没有二氧化碳发电装置，就是因为安全风险太大，所以我们推进得很慢。
老实说，这在工程上其实是个相当简单的问题，但要处理这类设备所需的安全等级却极高。
一旦失效，基本上就是一颗房间大小的手榴弹。
@anthonyanglim7147
That is so incredible, that we would be able to recapture heat from major heat producing industries, and run CO2 generators off of it! Great video, very well explained. ��
太不可思议了！我们居然能从高耗热工业中回收热量，并用它驱动二氧化碳发电机！视频很棒，解释得非常清楚。
@MrBphils
At 4:20, should the propellers rotate clockwise. Shouldn't they rotate counterclockwise? I realize I do not actually know direction of propeller spin based on input air direction, but it feels wrong to me. If anyone does know, please share.
4:20 那些螺旋桨应该顺时针旋转吧？难道不该是逆时针吗？我知道自己其实并不清楚进气方向与螺旋桨旋转方向的关系，但感觉不对劲。如果有人知道，请分享一下。
@speedsterh
When I watch some of your videos and see that most points here go way above my head then I know I can be more dense than supercritical CO2
每次看你的视频，发现大部分内容都远超我的理解水平，我就知道自己可能比超临界二氧化碳还要“致密”。
@AriLo-d9g
Interesting. Will be curious to hear about this tech in ten years for sure
有意思。真想知道十年后这项技术会发展成什么样。
@samuel_williams_7
WE'RE FINALLY NOT JUST BOILING WATER???? This IS big news.
我们终于不只是在烧开水了？？？？这可是大新闻！
@TacoCaleb
Was just having a conversation with someone about how we have nuclear power but it’s still just steam and turbines. Crazy timing with this video release lol
我刚还在跟人聊，说我们明明有核能，结果还是靠蒸汽和涡轮机。这视频发布时间真是巧到离谱
@geolyn
Didn't understand a word. But I keep watching in hope......
一个字都没看懂。但我还是抱着希望一直看下去……
@kayzrx8
will be a maintenance nightmare
以后维护起来会是一场噩梦。
@JhonSabowsla
Nice work done from a termodinámics stand point
从热力学角度看，干得漂亮。
@JoshuaUnknown-e6g
We're going from the steam engine to the exhaust engine
我们要从蒸汽机时代进入排气机时代了。
@goinawayforlife2475
now we just have to wait for the superpositive co2 generator
现在我们就需要“超正二氧化碳发电机”了。
@rafajeng7888
special alloy => special elements => rare earth. Now you see why China ...
特种合金 → 特种元素 → 稀土。现在你知道为什么是中国了吧……
@gelo1238
Anyone knows why supercritical loop precools co2? It is to raise efficiency or it just for safety?
有人知道为什么超临界循环要对二氧化碳进行预冷吗？是为了提高效率，还是仅仅出于安全考虑？
@kylewall9107
Rather than magnetic or using a journal bearing, I'm surprised that they aren't using an air bearing method of putting high pressure fluid through a narrow gap between the stator and rotor where the turbine rotor blades are on either side.
与其用磁悬浮或滑动轴承，我倒是惊讶他们没采用空气轴承——让高压流体通过定子和转子之间的狭窄缝隙，而涡轮叶片就装在转子两侧。
@luisarellanes1904
As a society we yearn for innovation and are surprised to use old and well-understood principles, but we don't see that we neglect education and invest very little in science, technology and well-being.
作为一个社会，我们渴望创新，却又对使用那些古老而成熟的原理感到惊讶；但我们没意识到的是，我们忽视了教育，在科学、技术和福祉上的投入也微乎其微。
@BloodyMobile
9:11 that's a very curious building. First I thought "why'd someone put a golf course onto that?..." then I noticed it's sloped all the way down, and now I wonder why...
And I thought that the entire point of using CO2 was that you would NOT need insane pressures, like water needs to carry enough heat to be "useful".
那栋建筑真奇怪。一开始我以为“谁会在上面建个高尔夫球场？……”后来发现它是整体倾斜向下的，现在我又好奇为什么……
而且我一直以为使用二氧化碳的全部意义就在于不需要像水那样承受极端高压也能有效携带足够热量。
@paulstan2449
Dear Doctor Miles, Thanks for putting out this lovely video. I found it very interesting if a bit difficult to follow. I’d have more to say but it’ll have to wait till my Doc says we’ve managed to get my brain to stop swelling��. Regards, Paul.
亲爱的迈尔斯博士，感谢您发布这个精彩的视频。我觉得非常有趣，虽然有点难懂。我本想多说几句，但得等医生确认我的大脑消肿了再说��。此致敬意，保罗。
@Slippergypsy
I've been working with transcritical CO2 for years in refrigeration, and I've been eagerly waiting for someone to utilise CO2 for other uses. The efficiency compared to regular refrigerants is absolutely bananas and its completely inert and non flammable..obviously, the only downsides are the cost of components and the massive increases in pressures, both of which can be easily managed
我从事跨临界二氧化碳制冷行业多年，一直盼着有人能把二氧化碳用在其他领域。相比常规制冷剂，它的效率简直高得离谱，而且完全惰性、不可燃……当然，唯一的缺点是部件成本高、压力大幅提升，但这两点其实都能轻松应对。
@Proteus6684
Its brilliant to see that the generator was used on a steel mill. So much heat is wasted. Great source for recovery.
看到这台发电机用在钢铁厂真是太棒了。那么多热量被白白浪费，这可是绝佳的回收来源。
@ChinaDiscoveriesOfficial
Running at 700°C and 20 MPa, producing $4.3 million in extra annual revenue from a steel plant’s waste heat. This is how industrial innovation should look: compact turbines up to 10 times smaller with higher density CO₂ at 600–800 kg/m³. Well done, China!
在700°C和20兆帕下运行，仅靠钢厂余热每年就能额外创收430万美元。这才是工业创新该有的样子：紧凑型涡轮机体积缩小至原来的十分之一，超临界二氧化碳密度高达600–800 kg/m³。干得漂亮，中国！
@wolfieboy09
This is really good! Now I can use supercritical CO2 for a sci-fi game...
太棒了！现在我可以在科幻游戏里用超临界二氧化碳了……
@sixxvee
Graphic of turbine has blade pitch and gas flow backwards
涡轮机示意图的叶片倾角和气体流向画反了。
@traian2041
Since the turbine is much smaller, would ceramics be a alternative to metals for the turbines? I know there are ceramics that have a bit of flex in them and don't crack so easily from vibrations.
既然涡轮机小了很多，陶瓷会不会成为金属的替代材料？我知道有些陶瓷有一定柔性，不容易因振动而开裂。
@petepanteraman
I've been following this for a few years and it's great to see us breaking out of the mold of combustion engines and steam powered energy generation.
我关注这项技术好几年了，很高兴看到我们终于突破了内燃机和蒸汽发电的固有模式。
@Experimental_Cyborg
I love how the rapid expansion leads to substantial shaft work ��
我就喜欢这种快速膨胀产生巨大轴功的过程
@patrick247two
Where does the co2 come from?
二氧化碳是从哪里来的？
@efdangotu
Now do a super critical mercury plasma drive.
接下来做个超临界汞等离子推进器吧。
@supreetsahu1964
This is the future honestly
老实说，这就是未来。
@boxy3087
it takes a century to get over steampunk. Bro I already thought we already pass on
摆脱蒸汽朋克居然花了一个世纪。兄弟，我还以为我们早就过去了。
@stormycatmink
Sounds like it's the same engine, just a different kind of 'steam', or for a more accurate term, a different working fluid.
听起来其实就是同一种发动机，只是换了一种“蒸汽”——更准确地说，是换了另一种工质。
@MinaMedhatMagdyEmeil
what about nitrogen? it is denser than water, achieve supercritical fluidity in very low temperatures (120+ kelvin) and 40 atm. it is also not polar and more available than oxygen. however the only thing I have not yet found is how it behaves around steel at such high temperatures in engines but it seems like a good candidate
那氮气呢？它比水密度更高，在很低的温度（120+开尔文）和40个大气压下就能达到超临界状态。它还是非极性的，比氧气更易获取。不过我还没查到它在发动机高温环境下对钢材的影响，但它似乎是个不错的候选。
@FlameofDemocracy
Reliability, access, and stability are very valuable attributes. The Rankine cycle will be around for a while.
可靠性、可获得性和稳定性是非常宝贵的特性。朗肯循环还会存在很长一段时间。
@Fall.0.Yamihere
Magnetohydrodynamics needs to be next
下一步该轮到磁流体动力学（MHD）了。
@Cool3dprints857
FINALY!!!!! No more boiling water!!!!
终于！！！！！再也不用烧开水了！！！！！
@MillsWarrior
Two different YouTubers I follow upload the exact same discussion. The chances are so low but this happened to me with a school project I had the same project as the kid that went ahead of me. It was brutal. You both had very valid points, and a lot of the same ones.
我关注的两个YouTuber上传了完全相同的讨论内容。概率这么低的事居然发生了——就像我上学时做课题，结果和前面那个同学选了一模一样的题目，简直崩溃。你们俩的观点都很有道理，而且高度重合。
@andrewday3206
This would redefine a combined cycle powerplant when using this technology along with a rotating detonation gas turbine. In other words both the gas turbine and waste heat turbine would both increase output efficiency by 50%.
如果将这项技术与旋转爆震燃气轮机结合，将彻底重新定义联合循环电厂。换句话说，燃气轮机和余热涡轮机的输出效率都能提升50%。
@MathTidbits
So Carbon dioxide stirling engine is also possible ?
所以二氧化碳斯特林发动机也是可行的？
@baguette4205
oh no, the 700C pipe going into the single generator is breaking down on an atomic level!
the humble 5 separate 140C pipes with 5 generators:
天啊，通往单台发电机的700°C管道正在原子层面解体！
而那5根普通的140°C管道配5台发电机：
@PaulG.x
CO₂ : "I really don't think you have any qualifications to dictate to me whether I should be a liquid or a gas."
Pump: " I think you are being rather supercritical about the matter."
二氧化碳：“我真的不觉得你有资格命令我该当液体还是气体。”
泵：“我觉得你对这事有点过于‘超临界’了。”
@matthewyates1719
what are your thoughts on the thunderstorm generator using plasmoids if true groundbreaking but I am ?????
你对那种利用等离子团的雷暴发电机怎么看？如果属实将是突破性的，但我很困惑？？？？？
@krystofmares8857
Sooo... now we're spinning turbines with a different molecule, nice!
所以……现在我们是用不同的分子来驱动涡轮机了，不错！
@jayceh
Most steam turbines are below the temperature threshold.
sCO2 though, will be used for all the higher end use cases (nuclear, chemical plants, spaceships, etc)
大多数蒸汽轮机的工作温度都低于临界阈值。
而超临界二氧化碳则将用于所有高端应用场景（核能、化工厂、宇宙飞船等）。
@AChicken-sh1gc
So we're boiling CO² instead of Water now ?
所以现在我们改烧二氧化碳而不是水了？
@EricLidiak
Ooh how big do they get? Be nice if we had a reactor to go with it
哦，它们能做多大？要是能配个反应堆就太好了。
@AlmostStupendous
I’m currently working at a energy plant, working on Gas turbines. This site has 4 smaller “peaker” units and two larger gas turbines and a steam turbine that is fed by the large gas turbines. This site produces 1,100 megawatts. Typical gas turbines spin at 3,000 rpm’s I believe. Almost all gas turbines are being upgraded to burn fuel more efficiently every few years.
我目前在一家能源厂工作，负责燃气轮机。这个厂有4台小型“调峰”机组、两台大型燃气轮机，以及一台由大型燃气轮机驱动的蒸汽轮机，总装机容量1100兆瓦。典型的燃气轮机转速我认为是3000转/分钟。几乎所有燃气轮机每隔几年都会升级，以更高效地燃烧燃料。
@PaulformEarth
Have they solved the corrosion problem yet ?
他们解决腐蚀问题了吗？
@efx245precor3
Saw this CO2 idea about two weeks ago
两周前就看到过这个二氧化碳方案了。
@9ish660
Supercritical CO² is just spicy water
超临界二氧化碳不过是加了辣的水。
@DaveDave-e4t
This system will fit nicely with Quaise.
这套系统和地热钻探技术会很配。
@namangupta7048
After reading several articles about supercritical CO2 engine becoming mainstream in China since past month, I was waiting for your video to actually understand how true everything was.
过去一个月看了好多关于超临界二氧化碳发动机在中国走向主流的文章，一直在等你的视频，好弄清楚这些说法到底有多真实。
@dansullivan8968
Material science, the materials used to make pipes, turbine blades, heat exchangers are all limited to the materials used to construct them, even then we are still spinning a bearing based shaft to produce the electricity. The best part of the solution is reclaiming energy from industrial heat waste.
材料科学决定了管道、涡轮叶片、换热器的性能极限，即便如此，我们仍然依赖带轴承的转轴来发电。这项方案最棒的部分在于能从工业余热中回收能量。
@havocthehobbit
All I hear is , if we get past the challenges of this new tech and implement it at scale , we could finally have a more environmentally friendly and efficient industrial factory tool , which could save us on costs of wasted byproducts of energy use and production and start to decrease how much Carbon we put into the atmosphere . It sounds amazing , it sounds expensive to kick off and sounds far off but having a new choice of assembling factories sounds like a big societal win , if we can bring it all together to the distribution finish line.
What I really want is something that can recapture our waste at private home level and re-use it for good , like a poop energy machine , this is why I want a closed home eco system that recaptures all the energy we discard like we are trying to work towards with innovations like this that happen on an industrial scale . When I heat the house I want a membrain in the wails and a layer between windows that sucks that heat in and stores or converts it , one day I hope we get that , I assume that is something that only people like Nasa are working on for their closed loop systems .
我听到的全是：如果我们能克服这项新技术的挑战并实现规模化应用，最终就能拥有一种更环保、更高效的工业工厂工具，从而节省能源使用和生产过程中浪费副产品的成本，并开始减少排入大气的碳量。听起来很美好，启动成本高昂，似乎还很遥远，但如果能把这一切整合起来推向市场，对社会将是一次重大胜利。
我真正想要的是能在家庭层面回收废物并加以利用的东西，比如粪便能源机。所以我想要一个封闭式家庭生态系统，能回收我们丢弃的所有能量——就像我们在工业规模上努力实现的这类创新一样。
当我给房子供暖时，我希望墙壁里有膜、窗户之间有夹层，能把热量吸进去储存或转化。希望有一天能实现，我猜目前只有NASA这类机构在为他们的闭环系统研究这种技术。
@isaacalberda250
It could be a game changer; but they’re gonna have to be super safe. Under the pressures they’ll be dealing with, errors could be catastrophic.
这可能会改变游戏规则；但他们必须做到超级安全。在如此高的压力下，任何失误都可能是灾难性的。
@SeanHewitt-z4q
Now, can it be adapted to be used to power an airplane?
那么，它能改装用来驱动飞机吗？
@Spectral-Spiff
finally the meme " "new power generation method!" *looks inside -_- hot water" might be dead
终于，“‘新型发电方式！’打开一看，还是烧开水，这个梗可以退休了。
@ashtonpiercey6383
Hey so... can you explain why we can't use liquid nitrogen to turn a turbine?
嘿，那……你能解释一下为什么不能用液氮来驱动涡轮机吗？
@huszaratraktor
Sounds promising, but no word on how the recuperator deals with the effects of side fumbling, so I'm a bit sceptic about it's actual, on field applications
听起来很有前景，但没提回热器如何应对“侧向扰动”的影响，所以我对它在实际现场应用的效果有点怀疑。
@ericwhite5333
Magnetic bearings are currently common in industry.
One example would be high RPM turbo blowers used in municipal wastewater treatment plants everywhere. They use a VFD to drive a vertical motor turbine shaft assembly at very high speed. In the event of a power interruption, the drive instantly turns the motor into a generator to power the mag bearing until is slows enough to drop onto the conventional bearings. It’s an elegant design.
磁悬浮轴承在工业中其实很常见。
举个例子：各地市政污水处理厂广泛使用的高速涡轮鼓风机。它们用变频器（VFD）驱动垂直电机-涡轮轴组件以极高速度旋转。
一旦断电，驱动器会立即将电机转为发电机，为磁悬浮轴承供电，直到转速降低到足以落到备用机械轴承上。这是一种优雅的设计。
@thomas6502
The death of steam might be hot air.
蒸汽的消亡，或许只是空谈而已。
@8BitNaptime
Great is this why club soda is expensive now?
太棒了，所以这就是现在苏打水变贵的原因吗？
@Woozah337
"Dense like a liquid, but flows like a gas" -Gassius Clay. 10/10
“像液体一样致密，像气体一样流动”——气态克莱。
@LewbisArtachokis
I WANT TO KEEP BOILING WATER RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
我要继续烧开水啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊！
@tideypods4808
just waiting for that nuclear guy to react to this
就等那位核能博主来反应了。
@jorMaosterberg9951
I asked Ai is supercritical co2 liquid or gas, and answer were neither? I think that is rather both.
我问AI超临界二氧化碳是液体还是气体，回答说是“都不是”？我觉得它其实两者都是。
@marleystagg2940
I think instead of finding materials suitable for the turbine blades they should look at coatings for them that can withstand the environment.
我觉得与其寻找适合涡轮叶片的材料，不如研究能耐受这种环境的涂层。
@DeggaTheDev
There's even more issues with this:
1) the CO² pressure needs to be extremely well controlled or you get a 2 phase solution which can hamper flow and cause a type of pseudo-cavitation effect.
2) this is just a high pressure CO² heat pump air conditioner with extra expensive complex steps.
3) I'd love to see this work, but am extremely skeptical. The cost to benefit ratio seems just out of reach here.
这还有更多问题：
1）二氧化碳压力必须控制得极其精确，否则会出现两相混合物，阻碍流动并引发类似空化的效应。
2）这本质上只是一个高压二氧化碳热泵空调，外加一堆昂贵又复杂的步骤。
3）我很希望它能成功，但极度怀疑。成本效益比似乎还达不到实用水平。
@friedpicklezzz
Will this put more CO2 in the air?
这会让更多的二氧化碳排到空气中吗？
@user-wy4mp9ts3u
What about using a high density noble gas such as Xenon,no chemical reactions, high density low specific heat ,no limit to the breakdown temperature of the gas.Could you do a video on such or like technology ?though it be purely theoretical.
那用高密度惰性气体比如氙气怎么样？没有化学反应，密度高，比热容低，气体击穿温度也没有上限。你能做个类似技术的视频吗？虽然可能纯属理论。
@richardwargo5201
There have been supercritical water generating stations for decades.
超临界水发电站几十年前就有了。