美知乎讨论：为什么美国经济规模仍然比中国大，尽管中国几乎生产和制造了所有东西？

Jesuan Wu Follow
A litigation costs $7 in China. That figure is $350 in the US federal court, another $200 if you plan on bringing an attorney.
The yearly tuition for the top universities in China is like $700-$800. How much does an Ivy League tuition costs in the US?
A visit to a doctor in one of China’s best hospitals costs $10 without insurance. I’m not imaginative enough but maybe you can tell me how much that costs in the US. $300? $500?

在中国，提起诉讼的费用是7美元。而在美国联邦法院，诉讼费是350美元，如果你打算请律师，还得再花200美元。
中国顶尖大学的年学费大约在700到800美元。美国常春藤盟校的学费是多少？
在中国最好的医院看一次医生，没有保险的情况下花费10美元。我缺乏想象力，但或许你能告诉我这在美国要花多少钱。300美元？还是500美元？

A Chinese 20 thousand tons state of the art frigate costs the same as a 20 ton Boeing F-15 fighter jet.
Now of course some things cost roughly the same in China as in the US, like cell phones, but most of the time, and especially with services and public spending, China is soooo much cheaper.
This makes it hard comparing the two economies dollar for dollar.
Here’s a comparison between Chinese and US economy by electricity.

中国一艘2万吨级先进护卫舰的成本，与一架20吨的波音F-15战斗机相当。
当然，有些东西在中国和美国的价格大致相同，比如手机。但大多数时候，尤其是在服务和公共支出方面，中国的成本要低得多。
这使得按美元一比一比较两国经济变得困难。
以下是通过电力对比中美经济的一个例子。


Freedom of Speech ( is Unpleasant for You)· 6mo
I was shocked by the price of adrenaline in the US, this is a vital drug for providing emergency care to allergy sufferers to stop anaphylactic shock. In the US it costs 700 times more than in Russia, in Russia the price is 1 dollar.

我对美国肾上腺素的价格感到震惊，这是一种为过敏患者提供紧急护理以阻止过敏性休克的重要药物。在美国价格是俄罗斯的700倍，俄罗斯的价格是1美元。

Yan Hai· 6mo
I just checked. In China, epinephrine hydrochloride injection 1ml, containing 1mg, costs about $5 per box, with 10 in a box.
But you need to pick it up and inject it in person at a designated clinic (with a prescxtion).

我刚查了一下。在中国，盐酸肾上腺素注射液1ml（含1mg）一支装的每盒价格约为5美元，一盒10支。
但需要凭处方亲自到指定诊所取药并注射。

Freedom of Speech ( is Unpleasant for You) · 6mo
In Russia, the inscxtion "sold only by prescxtion" is important if you are buying drugs with narcotic action, such as Prozac analogues, or anabolic steroids. And if the patient receives the drugs for free, the prescxtion is essentially a payment document. But everything else does not require a prescxtion from a doctor: drugs for hypertension, antibiotics, etc., which are most often used.

在俄罗斯，“仅凭处方销售”的标注非常重要，尤其是当您购买具有麻醉作用的药物时，例如类似百忧解的药品或合成代谢类固醇。如果患者免费获得这些药物，处方本质上就是一份支付凭证。但其他大多数常用药品（如降压药、抗生素等）则无需医生处方即可购买。

Kouunn Chann· 6mo
Ssssshhhh….!!!!  
You are giving away the secret to the biggest consumer market and highest GDP in the world!
A $7 litigation only contributes $7 to GDP. Why settle for $7 when you can have tens of thousands or even millions?!

嘘嘘......!!!
你正在泄露世界上最大的消费市场和其最高GDP 的秘密！
7 美元的诉讼只对 GDP 贡献 7 美元。既然可以拥有数万甚至数百万，为什么要将就 7 美元呢？！

Nikita· 6mo
That's the real USA economic driver..services that produce nothing except lubricate society and economy, but as the costs for these services go up, they become more of a gunk than oil for the wheels of the economic machine.

这才是美国经济的真正驱动力…那些除了润滑社会和经济外不生产任何实际产品的服务业，但随着这些服务成本的上升，它们对经济机器的作用更像是污垢，而非润滑油。

Rob Jamieson · 6mo
That is simply because the US saw itself as transitioning from an industrial economy up the value chain to become a service-based digital economy, while outsourcing the making of things to low wage economies. And it worked: it helped raise millions out of extreme poverty. Unfortunately, it also alienated America’s low wage workers, a sense of grievance that led to Trump’s victory.

这很简单，因为美国认为自己正从价值链上的工业经济转型为以服务为基础的数字经济，同时将制造工作外包给低人力成本经济体。而且它奏效了：帮助数百万人摆脱极端贫困。不幸的是，这也疏远了美国低薪工人，这种不满感最终导致了特朗普的胜利。

David Szilvasy· 6mo
China is already the world’s largest economy, is only our statistics folks changing the method for computing output so the US appears largest.

中国已经是世界上最大的经济体，只是我们的统计人员改变了计算产出的方法，才让美国显得最大。

xiao Wen· 6mo
You can't say that. The United States does not use a meaningless calculation method. The real meaning of GDP is to represent the speed and scale of capital flow, as well as the scale of benefits the wealthy can gain from this capital flow. It does not represent the number of ordinary people who can live under modern average living conditions in an economy.
GDP is anti-people and capitalist. It represents prosperity in the capitalist concept. It is the foundation of the United States. It is not the foundation of a happy life for Americans.

你不能这么说。美国并未采用无意义的计算方式。GDP的真正意义在于反映资本流动的速度与规模，以及富人能从这种资本流动中获取利益的规模。它并不代表一个经济体中能在现代平均生活水平下生活的普通人数。
GDP是反人民且资本主义的。它代表的是资本主义概念中的繁荣。它是美国的基础，而非美国人幸福生活的基础。

Citizen of the World· 6mo
Services with inflated price which does’nt contribute to the real economy. No substance.

价格虚高、对实体经济无实质贡献的服务。没有实质内容。

Charles J· 6mo
But its the only way for US numbers to appear ‘largest’

但这是让美国的数据看起来“最大”的唯一方式。

Gooloo Ggg· 6mo
Electricity costs per kWh - USA $0.13 > China $0.08
America should terrorise, complain to WTO that China undercutting electricity costs is unfair competition posing a national security threat to USA huh

每千瓦时电费 - 美国 0.13美元 > 中国 0.08美元
美国应该向世贸组织提出恐怖指控，抱怨中国压低电价构成不公平竞争，对美国国家安全构成威胁，是吧？

ToniNai · 6mo
meaning, USD GDP numbers are inflated. China has been the largest real economy in the world for a long time. Do you know in the US, the imputed rental of the home you own and living in is added to the US GDP? and of course, lots of other bogus numbers to inflate their GDP numbers. China just laughs quietly and contented to be called number 2. lol

意思是，以美元计价的GDP数据被夸大了。中国长期以来一直是全球最大的实体经济体。你知道在美国，连你拥有并自住的房屋的估算租金都被计入GDP吗？当然，还有许多其他虚假数字用来虚增他们的GDP。中国只是静静地笑着，满足于被称为第二。哈哈。

Jesuan Wu· 6mo
There are many benefits to being called No.2. China is just not ready to give up on those yet. Plus, the US has more stock wealth and power still.

被称为“第二”有许多好处。中国目前还不准备放弃这些优势。此外，美国在金融财富和影响力方面依然占据优势。

Robert Schriver· 6mo
Read a post on Quora by a Chinese citizen describing how much of the economy was “unregulated”. Small business of up to some decent threshold are not taxed - and so are not captured in GDP reporting - and there are a lot of them.

阅读了Quora上一位中国公民的帖子，其中描述了中国经济中有多少部分处于“未受监管”状态。规模在一定合理门槛以下的小企业无需纳税——因此也不被纳入GDP统计——而这类企业的数量非常庞大。

Gordon Stewart· 6mo
I wish ambulance would be just 300–500$, alas, it's in the thousands. Most people prefer to drive themselves to hospitals.

但愿救护车费用只需300-500美元，可惜实际高达数千美元。大多数人宁愿自己开车去医院。

Leow Kam Soon · Jul 26
You are right! GDP is measured by parameters mainly contributed by revenue from sales, services and manufacturing activities. With high cost at every front, cost of sale, services and manufacturing inflated in numbers, thus GDP of US is inflated. Not to forget US dollar is 7 times of RMB, but buying is not.

你说得对！GDP的衡量参数主要来自销售、服务和制造活动的收入。由于美国各方面成本高昂，销售、服务和制造的成本都被数字夸大，因此其GDP也被虚高。别忘了，美元对人民币汇率虽是7倍，但购买力并非如此。

Tinh Lam · 6mo
You missed the most important thing. Americans spend 80% of their income. Because they have faith in retirement funds and partly because of consumerism. Chinese people only dare to spend 30-40% of their income, because they do not believe in social security and retirement funds.

你错过了最重要的东西。美国人花费了80%的收入。因为他们相信退休基金，部分原因是消费主义。中国人只敢花30%到40%的收入，因为他们不相信社会保障和退休基金。

Fred Chuatiuco Follow
The easy answer would be the foreign exchange - that instead of nominal GDP, China had already overtaken the U.S. in 2017 as the world’s largest economy if measured in terms of purchasing power (PPP).
But there is a more insidious. . much more fundamental and organic reason. Yes, indeed the U.S. economy is growing faster . . and the gap between the two countries has actually been increasing.
The U.S. is definitely pulling away from China . . . by almost a pound a minute . . but not in a good and healthy manner.

简单的答案在于汇率转换——若以购买力平价（PPP）衡量，中国早在2017年就已超越美国成为全球最大经济体。
但还存在一个更隐蔽、更根本且更本质的原因。没错，美国经济确实增长更快…两国之间的差距实际上一直在扩大。
美国确实正在拉开与中国的距离…几乎以每分钟一磅的速率…并非以健康良性的方式。

Represented in human physiological terms, the U.S. is like a 700-lb obese person addicted to an eating disorder with food of empty calories and not pre-disposed much with exercise.
The U.S., like most of the Western developed economies, is fully financialized and almost completely de-industrialized. We don’t do much manufacturing anymore. Profiles of Western GDPs are almost the same - with consumption from 75% to 85% and like U.S. manufacturing is down to about 10%.
Balances of trade are also similar - perennially in the deficit - we consume more than we produce. And the national budgets, they’re also in the deficit. . . . and very little for constructing infrastructures.

从人体生理学的角度比喻，美国就像一个700磅的肥胖者，沉迷于饮食失调，只摄入空有热量的食物，且极少运动。
与大多数西方发达经济体一样，美国已完全金融化，几乎彻底去工业化。我们不再进行大量生产。西方国家的GDP构成高度相似——消费占比在75%至85%之间，而像美国的制造业已降至约10%。
贸易平衡状况也相似——长期处于逆差状态，我们的消费远超过生产。国家预算同样处于赤字状态…且极少用于基础设施建设。

Americans have literally been living on the dole - our national debt is now $37 trillion and ballooning out of control. We’ve been simply printing money without any care in the world because we’ve been expecting Japan and Chinese to buy our debts and put them in cold storage as reserve. The days of easy money through quantitative easing is not possible anymore. China’s not buying our bond anymore and causing our yield to skyrocket. The rooster is home to roose and just our interest charges from here on end will be at least $1 trillion a year - exceeding even our skyhigh military expenditures. The buffets Americans have been pigging out on are not free any more and in fact getting expensive by the day.

美国人实际上一直靠救济金生活——我们的国债现已高达37万亿美元，且如气球般失控膨胀。我们一直在肆无忌惮地印钞，毫不顾忌世界其他地区，因为我们总指望日本和中国会购买我们的债务并将其作为储备冻结起来。如今，通过量化宽松轻松获取资金的日子已一去不复返。中国不再购买我们的债券，导致收益率飙升。报应终将到来——仅从今往后的利息支出每年至少将达1万亿美元，甚至超过我们本就高企的军费开支。美国人曾经狼吞虎咽的“自助餐”不再免费，事实上正日益昂贵。

In other words, Americans have been pretty much sitting at home binging on junk food. On other hand, the Chinese have been putting on the hard hat and lab coats and going out to work at a 996 pace.
China’s GDP depicts this different story. Its consumption is 55% and its manufacturing accounts for 36% of global output. China is the only country in the developed world that does not only has its industrial base intact but growing exponentially.

换句话说，美国人几乎一直在家里狂吃垃圾食品。另一方面，中国人则戴上安全帽，穿上实验服，以996的方式出门工作。
中国的GDP描绘了不同的故事。其消费占比为55%，制造业占全球产出的36%。中国是发达世界中唯一一个不仅工业基础完好无损，而且还在呈指数级增长的国家。

Note that China had already passed the U.S. as the world’s largest economy in PPP terms since 2017. China’s economy is equally reflected in their scale of consumption - as the world’s largest car market exceeding U.S. car purchases by at least twice - in 2022, China's new car sales was 26 million vs 13 million for the U.S . . . . .they’re the world’s largest importer of food in all categories in meat, rice, wheat, soy bean . . . . .the world’s largest home appliance market, largest consumer of luxury goods . . . and in pretty much to all other categories.

值得注意的是，自2017年起，中国已按购买力平价计算超过美国，成为世界最大经济体。中国的经济规模同样体现在其消费水平上——作为全球最大的汽车市场，其汽车销量至少是美国的两倍：2022年，中国新车销量达2600万辆，而美国为1300万辆。中国还是全球最大的食品进口国，涵盖肉类、大米、小麦、大豆等所有品类…同时也是全球最大的家电市场、最大的奢侈品消费国…并且在几乎所有其他类别中均位居前列。

Chinese are savers but they’ve been spending as well.
As for China’s industrialial base, China went from a few hundred in 2008 to 44,000 kilometer of high-speed rails in less than 20 years while the U.S. can’t even complete a single line - California’s LA to San Francisco is more than 10 years in construction with no end in sight but costs ballooning skyward with unending delays. And as in all infrastructure categories, China had exceeded the developed world also in all categories.

中国人是储蓄者，但他们也一直在消费。
至于中国的工业基础，中国在2008年只有几百条高速铁路，但不到20年就建成了44000公里的高速铁路，而美国甚至连一条线路都建不完——加州的洛杉矶到旧金山建设已经超过十年，但却在不断延误，成本却不断飙升。和所有基础设施类别一样，中国在所有类别中也超过了发达国家。

In summary, yes, the U.S. is growing larger but it’s because Americans are inordinately consuming to add fat. On the other hand, the Chinese are still staying lean and fit . . . not gaining weight but growing muscles and adding strength.
The U.S. will remain the largest economy in the world for a while. MAGA and trump are boasting the U.S. to be the strongest and HOTTEST country in the world. . . . . . until the old ticker can’t anymore pump the lifeblood for our oversized fatass economy.

总而言之，是的，美国经济规模仍在增长，但这只是因为美国人过度消费而堆积脂肪。另一方面，中国人则保持着精干与健康…他们并非增重，而是在增长肌肉、增添力量。
美国仍将在一段时间内保持世界最大经济体的地位。MAGA和特朗普夸耀美国是世界上最强大、最“炙手可热”的国家…直到这台老旧的“心脏”再也无法为我们这个过度肥胖的经济体泵送生命血液。

Jeanpeterson Pierce · Sep 27
plus building and financing solar plants, hydro-dams, ports and rails and roads all over the under-developed world with the tens of millions of new school graduates each year every year.

加上每年数千万新毕业的学生，在欠发达地区建设和融资太阳能发电厂、水坝、港口、铁路和公路。

Azeezur Rahman · Sep 27
US Economy in real terms 50% of what shown in Media

美国经济的实际数值是媒体展示出来的50%。

Robert Spencer · Sep 27
It is a bit misleading to quote the 10% share of the economy from manufacturing. Whilst the relative decline of manufacturing is obvious, it is in part due to the rise of other ways to spend your money. For example,when I were a lad the idea that hundreds of thousands of people would spend their hard earned cash going to a gym would have sounded ridiculous.

说制造业占经济10%的份额有些误导。虽然制造业的相对衰落显而易见，但部分原因是其他花钱方式的兴起。比如，当我还是个小孩时，成千上万的人花辛苦赚来的钱去健身房，这个想法听起来简直荒谬。

Single and Available · Sep 27
In 1993, Industry (including construction) was 32% of world GDP. Agriculture, forestry and fishing was another 3.8%. So making things and food basically comprised 36% of world GDP. Right now, the total is around 31%. In 1800, the share was close to 100%.
World Bank Open Data
In other words, unless you are living in 1800 and subsist on basic material needs only, manufacturing is not that important to economic activity. Manufacturing is now so efficient, that it actually does not give you that much income.

1993 年，工业（包括建筑业）占全球 GDP 的 32%。农业、林业和渔业占 3.8%。所以物品制造和食品制造基本上占了全球 GDP 的 36%。目前，这一比例大约为 31%。1800 年，这一比例接近 100%。

世界银行开放数据（链接）
换句话说，除非你生活在1800年，只靠基本物质需求维持生计，否则制造业对经济活动并不那么重要。制造业现在效率太高了，以至于它并不能给你带来那么多收入。

For any kind of economic life above the basic level, you will need services. Eating out, beauty/hair care, advanced healthcare, going to a gym, shorter working hours to do leisure activity, travel (overseas and internal), piano/ballet lessons for the kids, yoga instructors, watching movies and TV, going to the theatre, all kinds of discretionary services.
You wuMaos (and I think you are one from your posting history) think manufacturing is the ONLY thing because China is good at it. It is not. Even Chinese economists think China should develop a bigger services sector. All rich countries have a large services sector.

任何经济生活超过基本水平，都需要服务。外出就餐、美容/美发护理、高级医疗、去健身房、缩短工作时间以便休闲活动、旅行（海外和国内）、儿童钢琴/芭蕾课、瑜伽教练、看电影和电视、看剧院，以及各种非必需的服务。
你们这些无名之辈（我觉得你从你的发帖历史来看就是其中之一）认为制造业是唯一的原因，因为中国在这方面做得很好。事实并非如此。甚至中国经济学家也认为中国应发展更大的服务业。所有富裕国家都有庞大的服务业。

Fred Chuatiuco· Sep 28
“Manufacturing is now so efficient, that it actually does not give you that much income.” This summarizes MAGA idiocy. So American values is to have $500,000 divorce attorneys and $10 million investment analysts that symbolized our advancement. This is our future because we try to minimize manufacturing to no value. WAY TO GO!!!!
BTW, your people are being eliminated by AI but its professionals with solid STEM skillsets that are still needed to build bridges and telecommunication networks that are paid real income.

“制造业现在效率太高了，以至于它并不能给你带来那么多收入。”这句话概括了MAGA的愚蠢。所以美国的价值观就是拥有价值50万美元的离婚律师和1000万美元的投资分析师，这象征了我们的进步。这就是我们的未来，因为我们试图将制造业贬低到一文不值。干得好！！！！！
顺便说一句，你们的人正在被人工智能淘汰，但真正有收入的仍然是那些具备扎实STEM技能的专业人士，他们负责建造桥梁和电信网络。

Michael Bechler· Sep 27
This is somewhat misleading. True, China is a manufacturing powerhouse that is taking the world by storm, but don’t count America out just yet. *America is the only country in the world capable of interfering with China’s plans to take over 100% of the world’s manufacturing.* It is still the world’s second largest manufacturing country, with more than three times the output than any of the others. Look at the graph.

这有些误导。诚然，中国是一个正在席卷全球的制造强国，但美国还不能轻易放弃。美国是世界上唯一有能力干扰中国接管全球制造业100%计划的国家。它仍然是世界第二大制造业国家，产出是其他任何国家的三倍多。看看图表。


Infographic: China Is the World's Manufacturing Superpower
信息图：中国是世界制造业超级大国

If China can knock America out of the game, they will dominate the world and destroy any significant manufacturing capacity that exists anywhere else. The rest of the world will be buying Chinese products and providing China resources and services. And militarily, forget it. The resource and service countries can never beat the industrialized countries at war. All they can do is make the occupation so difficult that the occupiers eventually go home, as in Afghanistan and Vietnam.

如果中国能将美国淘汰出局，他们将主导世界，摧毁其他任何重要的制造能力。世界其他地区将购买中国产品，提供中国所需的资源和服务。军事上，别想了。资源和服务型国家永远无法在战争中击败工业化国家。他们所能做的就是让占领变得极其艰难，最终让占领者像在阿富汗和越南那样回家。

The rest of the world better get its shit together or China will take everything. As for America, we can only hope that we get over this current craziness and claw back some of what it has lost.
But the biggest headwind for America (other than the current regime) is the financialization of everything, especially the cost of housing. Hint: you can’t build anything if you have to pay workers enough to live in a housing unit that costs half a million dollars. The Chinese knew this and they intentionally tanked their housing market (remember Evergrande?)

世界其他国家最好振作起来，否则中国将占据一切。至于美国，我们只能希望度过当前的疯狂时期，并夺回部分已失去的领域。
但美国面临的最大阻力（除了当前政权之外）是万物的金融化，尤其是住房成本。提示一下：如果你必须支付给工人足够居住在价值50万美元住房单元中的工资，那么你将无法建造任何东西。中国深知这一点，并有意压低了他们的房地产市场（还记得恒大吗？）。

Fred Chuatiuco· Sep 28
The stats are not misleading but instead hide very worrisome truth - that U.S. manufacturing is very much more reliant on China than ever before.

这些数据并非误导性，而是掩盖了一个令人担忧的事实——美国制造业比以往任何时候都更加依赖中国。

Yes, the U.S. is the second manufacturing nation but increasingly we’ve lost our supply chain that had been taken over by China. And its not just rare earth minerals that can shut down most industries and the Military overnight but also the basic industrial input products such as the API needed for pharmacueticals and basic industrial parts that go into higher-value chain outputs. These are productions that require scale and an ecosystem that we don’t have and not economic anymore to build up from scratch. And this is what trump does not understand. Impose tariff on basic industries and they are ripple effects that resonate to all industries and countries.

是的，美国是第二大制造业国家，但我们正逐渐丧失被中国接管的供应链。这不仅仅是可能一夜之间瘫痪大多数工业和军事的稀土资源问题，还包括医药所需的基础工业原料（如原料药）以及构成更高价值链产出的基本工业部件。这些生产需要规模化和生态系统，而我们既不具备，也不可能再从头开始经济地建立起来。这正是特朗普所不理解的地方。对基础工业征收关税，其涟漪效应会波及所有行业和国家。

Michael Bechler· Sep 28
Yep. China is busy eating our lunch while we thrash around with a clown show in charge. We need to get our shit together and tough it out to get some of that supply chain and expertise back or we will be carrying their water for them. The world would be more efficient with China making everything, but no sane person other than a Chinese would want to live in such a world if they can avoid it.

是的。中国正忙于抢走我们的饭碗，而我们却在一场由小丑主导的闹剧中瞎忙。我们需要振作起来，咬牙坚持，夺回部分供应链和专业知识，否则就只能替他们打下手了。虽然让中国包揽一切生产会让世界更高效，但除了中国人之外，任何有理智的人只要还有选择，都不会愿意生活在这样的世界里。

There is no way it will work out as long as the monkeys are running the zoo. Maybe the rest of the world will sit up and notice that the only effective resistance they had is crumbling, and they’d better get their shit together in a hurry too. China built that supply chain intentionally; others can do so too, but it will take determination and focus.

只要还是猴子在管动物园，这事就不可能成。也许世界其他国家会猛然意识到，他们唯一的有效抵抗正在瓦解，最好也赶紧振作起来。中国是有意打造这样的供应链的；其他国家也能做到，但这需要决心和专注。

Michael X Follow
GDP was calculated base on total transitions. If China just privatize education, healthcare. The GDP is going to larger than the US instantly. If we do that, the poor students would never get equal opportunities, and 20% of the people wouldn’t be able to afford medicare.
If China develop a porn industry and legalize prostitution, weed, gambling…etc, and counting all that as services. The GDP is going to be twice as large as the US very quickly.

GDP的计算基于总交易量。如果中国将教育、医疗彻底私有化，其GDP将立即超过美国。但若这样做，贫困学生将永远无法获得平等机会，且20%的人口将负担不起医疗。
如果中国发展色情产业，并合法化卖淫、大麻、赌博…等，并将所有这些计入服务业，其GDP将迅速达到美国的两倍。


BL Cheah· 7mo
China is doing the right thing right now. There is no need to inflate GDP figures by monetizing everything.
The USA produces a lot of ‘goods’ that are not good at all, such as worthless lawyer services for navigating a cumbersome legal system. These may be monetized as part of GDP but actually lead to very severe inefficiencies.
Producing toxic shit, hot air, netflix woke propaganda, hollywood garbage all counts into the GDP but these are not ‘goods’.

中国当前的做法是正确的。无需通过将一切货币化来虚增GDP数据。
美国生产大量根本算不上“有益”的“产品”，例如为应对繁琐法律体系而产生的无价值的律师服务。这些虽被货币化计入GDP，实则导致严重的效率低下。
生产有毒废物、空话连篇、网飞的“觉醒”宣传、好莱坞垃圾——这些都被计入GDP，但它们并非真正的“有益之物”。

John Hanson· 7mo
Producing “worthless goods” and “severe inefficiencies” is a drag on GDP numbers. It should only make it easier to look good by comparison. Don’t fall for broken window fallacy.
The only way to deliberately inflate real GDP in the medium term is government spending (because it’s axiomatically counted 1:1, not by valued created.)

生产“无价值的商品”和“严重的低效”会拖累GDP数据。相比之下，这只会让其他国家更容易显得表现良好。不要被破窗谬论所迷惑。
在中短期内故意虚增实际GDP的唯一方式是增加政府支出（因为按照经济学原理，政府支出被直接以1:1的比例计入GDP，而非基于其创造的实际价值）。

BL Cheah · 7mo
The problem of the broken window fallacy is that once you privatize everything and the economy falls into the hands of oligarchies and monopolies, these have an incentive to break windows and repair them again using other people’s money.
Like the Healthcare industry, which never cures anybody. Instead they like to keep people permanently sick and dependent.

破窗谬论的问题在于，一旦将所有事物私有化，经济落入寡头和垄断集团手中，他们便有动机去“打破窗户”，再用别人的钱将其修好。
就像医疗行业，它从不治愈任何人，反而乐于让人们永远生病并保持依赖。

Another example I learned a few days ago was about India. Mumbai roads cost 3x to maintain as US roads, but are much worse. (And USA’s roads are now falling behind Rwandan and Ethiopian roads!) It turns out the Indian system rewards builders for road construction, but doesn’t hold them responsible for maintenance. Or give them any maintenance contracts for income. So road builders only try to make for the grand opening, after which the road deteriorates within months, and the builder is again contracted to build the road anew.

几天前我了解到的另一个例子是关于印度的。孟买的道路维护成本是美国道路的3倍，但质量却差得多。（而如今美国的道路甚至已落后于卢旺达和埃塞俄比亚的道路！）原来，印度的体制奖励建筑商修建道路，却不要求他们承担维护责任，也不给予任何维护合同作为收入来源。因此，建筑商只追求道路竣工时的光鲜，之后道路在几个月内便损坏，建筑商又会再次获得合同去重建同一条路。

JL· Jul 20
Most economists recognise that China’s economy is much larger than the US base on Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) which is in simpler terms, it suggests that a basket of goods should cost the same in different countries after accounting for exchange rates.

大多数经济学家都认识到，基于购买力平价（PPP），中国的经济规模已超过美国。简而言之，该理论认为在考虑汇率因素后，一篮子商品在不同国家的成本应大致相同。

Gordon Allen· 7mo
China benefits enormously in these calculations through it's population advantages; some 4 to 5 times as large as the US.
On a per capita GDP China has at best 20–25% that of the US( if that much).
China also has almost certainly the most unbalanced economy in the World, almost wholly dependent on an abnormal level of exports.
It is considerably weaker
and more vulnerable than many China worshippers here realize.

中国在这些计算中通过其人口优势获得了巨大收益；其人口规模约为美国的4到5倍。
就人均GDP而言，中国最多仅为美国的20-25%（如果真有那么高的话）。
中国几乎无疑是世界上经济最不平衡的国家，几乎完全依赖异常高水平的出口。
它比这里许多中国崇拜者所认为的要脆弱得多，也更容易受到冲击。

Calvin GoFollow
Do you even understand the US economy and what it consists of???
Here’s a simple google answer.
The U.S. service sector makes up approximately 75% of the U.S. economy and is a critical component of its growth and stability. Industries such as finance, healthcare, and technology are the largest contributors to this substantial portion of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP). This dominance is a result of historical shifts, including globalization and technological advancements that have favored service-oriented jobs over traditional manufacturing roles.

你是否真正了解美国经济状况以及它的构成呢？
这里是一个简单的谷歌搜索结果：
美国服务业约占美国经济的75%，是其增长与稳定的关键组成部分。金融、医疗和技术等行业是这一庞大国内生产总值（GDP）份额的主要贡献者。这种主导地位是历史性转变的结果，包括全球化和技术进步，这些因素使得服务导向型工作比传统制造业岗位更具优势。

Here’s another google answer.
In the first quarter of 2025, the manufacturing sector contributed $2.9 trillion to the U.S. economy, representing approximately 10% of the nation's total economic output (GDP). The sector also employed about 13 million people in 2023, accounting for 8.3% of all U.S. jobs at that time.
That’s the reason why the US has a big trade deficit. Because the US decided to buy more products overseas than producing it. Coz the US gets it’s money more with the service sector.

这是另一个谷歌搜索结果：
2025年第一季度，制造业为美国经济贡献了2.9万亿美元，约占美国GDP的10%。该行业在2023年还雇用了约1300万人，占当时美国所有就业岗位的8.3%。
这就是美国存在巨额贸易赤字的原因。因为美国选择从海外购买更多产品，而非自行生产。毕竟，美国通过服务业赚取更多资金。

So when Trump says having a big trade deficit is bad, that’s a lie.
You have a trade deficit with your supermarket, is that bad?
Common sense and critical thinking is important. Do some research!

所以，当特朗普说巨额贸易逆差有害时，那是一种谎言。
你与超市之间存在贸易逆差，这有害吗？
常识和批判性思维很重要。做些研究吧！

Vangel Vesovski · Sep 16
China’s economy passed that of the United States in 2013. India and Russia passed Japan and Germany, and now stand as the third- and fourth-wealthiest countries globally. The US has been offshoring production abroad and has pursued financial engineering activities that allow a small segment of society to leverage their access to cheap credit into wealth through speculation. The problem with that comes from the financial market valuations that overstate how well the American economy is doing.

中国经济已于2013年超越美国。印度与俄罗斯也已超过日本和德国，如今分别位列全球第三与第四大经济体。美国长期将生产环节转移至海外，并致力于金融工程活动，使社会少数群体能够通过廉价信贷进行投机获利。这种做法的问题在于，金融市场估值往往夸大了美国经济的实际表现。

Please note that if we look at the ratio of the price of the S&P500 divided by the real earnings per share (averaged over 10 years), we would see that it is around 39 compared to the median of around 16. When the ratio reached a record in 1997, Robert Shiller and John Campbell, the people who had developed the measure, predicted that the real value of the market would drop by 40% in ten years. They were too optimistic; the S&P 500 fell by 60% in eleven years. When I see the 39 handle today, I think that a 70% decline would be a reasonable guess. When that happens, the US economy is likely to crater and may be surpassed by India.
It should be evident to anyone that the US does not have the world’s largest economy. It was passed by China in 2014. India is third, and Russia is in fourth place ahead of Japan and Germany. The CIA World Factbook agrees with that ordering.

请注意，如果我们观察标普500指数价格除以实际每股收益（十年平均值）的比率，会发现该比率目前约为39，而历史中位数约为16。当该比率在1997年创下历史纪录时，提出这一衡量方法的罗伯特·希勒和约翰·坎贝尔曾预测，市场的实际价值将在十年内下跌40%。但他们的预测过于乐观了——标普500指数在十一年内实际下跌了60%。如今看到比率再次达到39，我认为市场下跌70%会是一个合理的推测。若这种情况发生，美国经济可能崩盘，并可能被印度超越。

任何人都应清楚地看到，美国并不拥有世界最大的经济体。中国已在2014年超越美国，印度位列第三，俄罗斯则排在第四位，领先于日本和德国。这一排序与《世界概况》中的数据显示一致。

Paul Denlinger Follow
Assuming that you are measuring the difference between the two economies using GDP based on the US dollar, here are some issues:
The US economy is the most heavily financialized in the world, and is mostly based on services commanding 70% of work output. Since the US has had the largest economy since the end of WWII, and has veto powers in all international banking institutions, it has been able to set terms for how GDP is measured. Just to give you an example, interest payments on debt count as a contribution to GDP! This means that even though the US is massively in debt on both the consumer accounts and national accounts level, it still has a high GDP and is growing! Can you please explain to me how having massive debt expenditures, or maxing out your credit card payments make you a wealthier person? That is what the US has been arguing for so long.

假设你正在使用基于美元的GDP来衡量两个经济体之间的差异，这里存在一些问题：
美国经济是全球金融化程度最高的经济体，其70%的工作产出主要依赖于服务业。由于美国自二战结束以来一直是最大的经济体，并在所有国际金融机构中拥有否决权，因此它能够为GDP的计量方式设定规则。

举个例子：债务的利息支付竟被算作对GDP的贡献！这意味着，尽管美国在消费者账户和国家账户层面都负债累累，其GDP依然很高且持续增长！请问，巨额债务支出或刷爆信用卡的行为如何能让一个人变得更富有？而这正是美国长期以来一直主张的观点。

In contrast to the US, China dominates in manufacturing and all supply chains, and about 36% of all manufacturing output in the world comes from China. China is moving up the value chain and becoming dominant in chip manufacturing, EVs and now weapons exports, all at much lower prices than the US. In fact, in many areas, the US doesn’t even have a meaningful manufacturing presence; shipbuilding is one example.
To sum up, the two economies are so different that measuring economic size using GDP denominated in US dollars is meaningless.

与美国相比，中国在制造业和所有供应链中占据主导地位，全球约36%的制造业产出源自中国。中国正在向价值链上游迈进，并在芯片制造、电动汽车以及目前的武器出口领域逐渐占据主导地位，且价格远低于美国。实际上，在许多领域（例如造船业），美国甚至没有具备实质意义的制造业存在。
总而言之，两国经济结构差异如此之大，以致于使用以美元计价的GDP来衡量经济规模已失去实质意义。

Instead, using PPP (purchasing power parity) is a much better and more accurate measure.
However, almost all US and western economists prefer using GDP in US dollars because that supports the view that the US is the dominant economic power, when the reality is that using PPP is against US economic interests and undermines western narratives about G-7 economies being much more important than they really are.

相反，使用购买力平价（PPP）是更优且更精确的衡量方式。
然而，几乎所有美国和西方经济学家都更倾向于使用以美元计价的GDP，因为这支持了美国是主导性经济力量的观念。而现实是，使用PPP不利于美国的经济利益，并隐匿了西方关于七国集团经济体重要性被高估的叙事。

In June 2025, it has become clear that US Treasury Secretary Bessent intends to use inflation to make it appear that the US economy is continuing to grow. So if you use GDP based on US dollars the US economy will continue to grow and Americans will become even richer, even though it will cost $30 to buy a Big Mac!
Can China compare with that?
How ridiculous can you get!
Who said that statistics are non-political?

在2025年6月，情况已变得清晰：美国财政部长贝森特意图通过通货膨胀来制造美国经济持续增长的假象。这样一来，即使一个巨无霸汉堡要卖到30美元，只要使用基于美元的GDP计算，美国经济就将继续增长，美国人也会显得更加富有！
中国能比得了这个吗？
还能有多荒谬呢！谁说统计数据是非政治性的？

Stephen Cheung · 6mo
Please be kind and be considerate to the US dreamers; let them satisfy their ego that America is still has the strongest economy. They have suffered enough seeing their dollars dwindle in purchasing power and the prices of everyday items getting more expensive. Is it too much to ask to let them claim America is still the country with the strongest economy as indicated by their suggested way of calculating GDP?

请以善意和体谅对待那些怀有美国梦的人们；让他们满足于美国依然拥有最强经济的自我认知吧。他们已经受够了目睹美元购买力不断缩水、日常用品价格日益攀升的处境。让他们按照自己提出的GDP计算方式宣称美国仍是经济最强国，这要求难道过分吗？

Will Rice Follow
To borrow from my dear departed and very very frank MIL? The only way America's economy is larger than China's is if we measure it “like a cat measures its tail . . from its butt-h___.” Meaning “If we go by ‘GDPn’”. Instead of, y’know . . . going by ‘GDP purchasing power parity’.
How do you weigh wealth? I (and most everyone I know) weigh wealth in terms of what someone can buy with their equity. Or their annual income. GDP purchasing power parity does that. It tells us how much an economy's net income can buy. By this common sense measure who is wealthier — the US or China?

引用我已故的、非常非常直率的岳母的话来说？美国经济比中国大的唯一方式，就是像猫量自己的尾巴那样…从屁股那头开始量。
意思就是“如果我们用‘名义GDP’来衡量的话”。而不是，你知道的…用‘购买力平价GDP’来衡量。
你如何衡量财富？我（以及我认识的大多数人）衡量财富的标准，是一个人能用他的净资产或年收入买到什么。购买力平价GDP就是这么做的。它告诉我们一个经济体的净收入能买到多少东西。用这个常识性的标准来衡量，谁更富有——美国还是中国？

Answer? There's no ambiguity. No real contest. China has a lot more purchasing power than the US. In 2024 China's purchasing power was $40T. America's was $30T. China's billfold could buy a whopping $10T more than America's. That's 33% more. And China's advantage over America via a vis purchasing power continues to grow. The rate at which the gap grows is growing. Sometime in 2015 China's purchasing power matched the US’ purchasing power. By 2020 China's purchasing power outmatched America's by $5T — by 25%.

答案？这毫无歧义。也没有真正的可比性。中国的购买力远超美国。2024年，中国的购买力为40万亿美元，而美国则为30万亿美元。中国的钱包能比美国多买整整10万亿美元的商品与服务——这足足多了33%。而且，中国相对于美国的购买力优势仍在持续扩大，这种差距的增长速度还在加快。大约在2015年，中国的购买力与美国持平。到了2020年，中国的购买力已超过美国5万亿美元——超出25%。

By 2030 the gap is projected to be over $15T — China: $50T. America: $35T. China's purchasing power over 42% above America's.
The Chinese economy ought to be much larger than America's if measured in purchasing power. Were China not still rising from colonial ruination — and America artificially buoyed by the Bretton Woods obscenity — relative populations alone suggest a natural 4-fold differential (the Chinese 1400M to an American 350M pop.).

到2030年，这一差距预计将超过15万亿美元——中国：50万亿美元，美国：35万亿美元。中国的购买力将超过美国42%以上。
若以购买力衡量，中国经济理应比美国大得多。倘若中国不是仍在从殖民统治的废墟中崛起——而美国也未曾凭借布雷顿森林体系这一不合常理的安排被人为抬高——仅相对人口规模（中国14亿对比美国3.5亿）就暗示着天然的四倍差距。

Jy Z · 6mo
India has the most ludicrous GDP statistical methods in the world, as they include cow dung in their GDP calculations. China, on the other hand, represents the other extreme; they exclude every possible option from their GDP statistics to conceal their true strength. For instance, China's industrial GDP only includes "industrial enterprises above designated size," meaning any factory with an annual revenue of less than 20 million RMB (or 3 million USD) is not included in China's GDP calculation. This makes China's publicly reported industrial strength appear several times smaller than it actually is.

印度拥有世界上最荒谬的 GDP 统计方法，因为他们的 GDP 计算中包括牛粪。而中国则代表了另一个极端，他们在 GDP 统计中尽可能排除所有可排除的选项，以掩盖自身的真实实力。例如，中国工业 GDP 只包括“规模大于指定规模的工业企业”，这意味着年收入低于 2000 万人民币（或 300 万美元）的工厂不计入中国 GDP 计算。这使得中国公开报告的工业实力看起来比实际小了好几倍。

Kiamcai Lim · Aug 2
Yes that s why many magnanimous Chinese are migrating or wanting to migrate to western countries to help build their sagging gdp
And every where they go in the western countries,they find their purchasing power is sky rocketing yapping cheap ,cheap,cheap,in those western countries..

这正是为什么许多慷慨的中国人正在移民或希望移民到西方国家，去帮助提振他们低迷的GDP。
而且无论他们去到西方国家的哪个地方，都发现自己的购买力飙升，不停地念叨着“便宜，真便宜，太便宜了”——在那些西方国家里。

Chun Pete Ng· Jul 27
Some people are just deluding themselves by measuring in GDP$ and claim that “the US is the biggest economy in the world”.
An analogy: The US spends $500B to build 3 planes. China spends $5B to build 300 planes. Who should have the higher GDP? In $ term, it’s the US. In real term, it’s China. Do you prefer to possess 3 planes or 300 planes?

有些人仅仅通过以美元计价的GDP来衡量，并声称“美国是世界最大经济体”，这不过是自欺欺人。
打个比方：美国花费5000亿美元造了3架飞机。中国花费50亿美元造了300架飞机。谁的GDP应该更高？按美元计价，是美国。按实际产出算，是中国。你更愿意拥有3架飞机，还是300架飞机？

Simple logic, really: China has 4–5 times the population of the US. Both countries are at similar technological level and managerial knowhow. Hence China MUST be more productive than the US in real terms.
The US has the higher GDP only because everything is priced much higher in the US, including the workers. Not because they produce more goods and services than China does. They don’t. In fact, it’s the reverse: China produces a LOT more goods and services than the US..

其实很简单：中国的人口是美国的4到5倍。两国在技术水平和管理能力上相近。因此，中国在实际生产力上必须比美国更高。
美国 GDP 更高，是因为美国所有东西的价格都高得多，包括工人工资。并不是因为他们生产的商品和服务比中国多，他们没有。事实上，情况正好相反：中国生产的商品和服务远远超过美国。

Will Rice · Jul 28
Exactly. That's why the only meaningful measure of GDP is GDP ppp — measurement of real world purchasing power.
That this fact is so hard for average Americans to grasp is both baffling and hilarious. Living in a zealously capitalist society . . . but failing to ‘get’ this most fundamental fact of daily economic life is . . . words fail.

没错。这就是为什么唯一有意义的 GDP 衡量标准是 GDP 购买力平价——现实世界的购买力衡量。
这个事实对普通美国人来说如此难以理解，既令人费解又滑稽。生活在一个狂热资本主义社会.....但如果未能“理解”这一日常经济生活中最根本的事实，那就...什么话都不管用了。

Beginning at age 3, when others dumped their kids in Sunday school, I took mine yard saling. She enjoyed the hunt for value. I enjoyed seeing her evolve her own metrics of value. I remember her first US dollar. We’re Canadian. She got it as change for her fisted Canadian blue fiver. She looked it over — then looked to me. I nodded. That day she learned how different places had different money - and how while that ‘weird’ US note said ‘$1’ it ‘was worth’ $1.20. And that by ‘was worth’ I meant that if she took it to a bank and most stores it would buy $1.20 of stuff. A then bargaining-savvy 4 year old got that very basic economic reality. The relative purchasing power is only in a very minor way an artifact of exchange rates — but is an artifact of complex differing socioeconomic dynamics. My point is that it ought to be facepalm obvious to adults that - for nations as for themselves - its what a coin actually buys that literally ‘counts’.
Thank you for this opportunity to pontificate. :)

从三岁起，当别人把小孩丢在主日学校时，我就带着自己的孩子去逛庭院旧货集市。她享受着寻找价值的乐趣，而我则乐于看着她逐渐建立起自己的价值衡量标准。我记得她拿到第一张美元时的情景——我们是加拿大人。她攥着一张皱巴巴的五加元蓝钞付钱，找回的零钱里有一美元。她仔细打量着这张陌生的纸币，然后抬头看向我。我点了点头。那天她明白了不同的地方有不同的钱币，也懂得了那张"奇怪"的美钞虽然写着"1美元"，却"值"1.2加元。

而所谓"值"的意思，就是她拿去银行或大多数商店时，能买到价值1.2加元的东西。这个当时年仅四岁却已懂讨价还价的孩子，就这样理解了最基本的经济现实：相对购买力在极小程度上是汇率的产物，而本质上则是复杂各异的社会经济动态的产物。我想说的是，成年人本该像拍额头般顿悟——无论对国家还是对个人而言，真正"算数"的从来都是一枚硬币实际能买到什么。
感谢您给我这个机会发表这番见解。:)

注：“主日学校”是基督教（尤其是新教传统中）为儿童和青少年在周日（即“主日”，基督徒的礼拜日）设立的宗教教育课程，通常在教堂举行。其主要目的是通过圣经故事、诗歌、手工等活动向孩子传授基督教信仰和道德观念。