特朗普将公布新型美国“战列舰”计划，满排超3万吨，配备垂发+激光炮+高超，号曰“特朗普级”，美国军迷：已麻

MGC91
And yes, it is going to be called the "Trump Class"

是的，它将被称为"特朗普级"

Trump Administration Live upxes: President Is Said to plan New Class of Battleships Named for Him

特朗普政府实时更新：据报道总统计划推出以自己命名的新级别战舰

PanzerKomadant
Oh my fucking god…this administration is a joke…

我的天啊……这届政府简直是个笑话……

Trump desperately wants his name on as many things as possible to create some sort of legacy.

特朗普拼命想让自己的名字尽可能多地出现在各种事物上，以此建立某种政治遗产。

Presidents and people who were remarkable didn’t need to do these things, people named things after them after they were gone or retired.

那些杰出的总统与人物从不需要做这些事，人们会在他们离世或退休后以他们的名字命名事物。

No class. All circus jokers…

毫无格调，全都是马戏团小丑的把戏……

hymen_destroyer
Branding is all he knows. Look at his business empire.

他只会搞品牌营销。看看他的商业帝国就明白了。

Department of War

战争部

Gulf of America

美国湾

He names things, usually after himself. It used to be considered inappropriate to name ships after living people, let alone sitting politicians

他总爱用自己的名字来命名事物。以往给在世者命名船只都被视为不妥，更不用说在任的政治人物了。

Single-Braincelled
It's such a breach of decorum that, frankly, the indictment reaches past Trump to those in the department who allow such flagrant behavior to happen right before their eyes.

如此公然违反礼仪，坦白讲，这份起诉不仅指向特朗普，更应问责那些在其眼皮底下纵容此等恶劣行为的部门官员。

But it's okay, I guess. We all know what the US Navy is all about when it comes to guzzling co**.

不过嘛，倒也说得通。毕竟谁不知道美国海军在挥霍公共资金方面向来"造诣非凡"。

wrosecrans
It used to be considered inappropriate to name ships after living people, let alone sitting politicians

为在世者命名舰艇本就曾被视为不合时宜，更何况是仍在任的政治人物。

One of those things that I am honestly shocked isn't actually illegal. I assumed that Congress passed some sort of official rules about naming ships at some point? Just, nobody ever thought it would happen in the modern era, I guess. One of a million seemingly-minor reforms that needs to happen as soon as the current administration ends in addition to the bigger and more blatantly criminal corruption. Start attaching actual criminal penalties to a bunch of stuff that used to be considered taboo. Want to name ships after yourself, believe it or not, straight to jail.

说实话，有一件事让我很震惊，那就是这竟然真的不违法。我以为国会在某个时候通过了某种关于军舰命名的官方规则？只是，我猜没人认为这种事会在现代发生。这是当前政府结束后需要尽快进行的，成千上万个看似微小但必要的改革之一，此外还有更大、更明目张胆的犯罪腐败。要开始对以前被认为是禁忌的一系列事情施加实际的刑事处罚。信不信由你，想以自己名字命名军舰，直接进监狱。

rtb001
Hell the Chinese won't even name stuff after DEAD people, save one, and here we have el presidente making everything under the sun after himself.

见鬼，中国人甚至连以已故之人命名都不愿意，除非是那一位，而我们这里，总统先生却把天上地下的一切都以自己的名字命名。

How long until he starts making the months after himself leading to an "accident" in the bathtub?

还要多久，他就会开始让月份也以自己命名，结果导致在浴缸里发生一场“意外”？

dasCKD
Oh my god all my Christmas wishes are coming true at once!

天啊，我所有的圣诞愿望居然同时实现了！

ratdeboisgarou
Just more tax dollars being wasted, they will get canceled as soon as someone without narcissistic personality disorder is in charge. They will also rename the Trump accounts, chisel his name off the Kennedy Center, and undo whatever he's trying to do with the DC golf courses.

这不过是浪费更多纳税人的钱，一旦换成没有自恋型人格障碍的人当家，这些项目立刻会被取消。他们还会给特朗普的账户改名，把他在肯尼迪中心的名字凿掉，废除他在华盛顿特区高尔夫球场搞的所有动作。

hymen_destroyer
Based on the last couple rounds of surface fleet acquisitions, I fully expect this to never take to the sea

鉴于近几轮水面舰队的采购情况，我完全预期这船根本不会下水。

narfbuttmunch
At this point we have a better chance of getting VLS cells strapped to carnival cruise lines ships than whatever this is making it off the design table.

眼下，比起让这玩意儿从设计图纸上走进现实，我们更有可能看到的是把垂直发射系统单元挂在嘉年华邮轮的船上。

Single-Braincelled
Dear God, the thought of how many VLS cells you can fit on a Symphony of the Seas. Make her really earn her name.

天哪，想象一下在一艘“海洋交响号”上能安装多少个垂直发射系统单元。让它真正对得起“交响”这个名字。

narfbuttmunch
Artistry and naval dominance packaged with a good time and unlimited buffets. What more can we ask for?

集精湛工艺与海上霸权于一体，配以轻松氛围和无限美食盛宴。我们还能奢求什么呢？

wrosecrans
It is pretty wild how much heavier a cruise or cargo ship is than an entire CSG added together. You could swap in an entire Burke's mass worth of military stuff on a cruise ship and it would still be well over 95% unchanged cruise ship. You'd barely notice any difference.

一艘邮轮或货轮的总重，竟然比整个航母战斗群加起来还要重得多，这真是令人难以置信。你可以在邮轮上换装相当于一整艘阿利·伯克级驱逐舰质量的军事装备，它仍然有超过 95%的部分是原来的邮轮。你几乎察觉不到任何变化。

ttkciar
What would the new class of ships be for? The article vaguely mentions countering the Chinese navy, but why would a larger class of missile cruisers be more useful in that regard than additional Ticonderoga missile cruisers, Burke class missile destroyers, or Virginia class attack submarines?

这新型战舰将用于何处？文章含糊地提及是为了对抗中国海军，但为何更大的导弹巡洋舰类别会比建造更多的提康德罗加级导弹巡洋舰、伯克级导弹驱逐舰或弗吉尼亚级攻击潜艇更有效呢？

From the article:

从文章中：

Trump has long criticised the condition and appearance of the US fleet, previously describing American warships as “terrible-looking”

特朗普长期以来一直批评美国舰队的状况和外观，曾将美国军舰描述为“看起来糟糕”

Dude, they are warships, not luxury yachts! Function matters, not aesthetics!

老兄，它们是军舰，不是豪华游艇！功能才是关键，而不是美学！

GrumpyOldGrognard
The Ticonderogas are ancient and desperately in need of replacement, and the Burke design is good but rapidly becoming maxed out in terms of size to house new systems, power requirements, etc. We need a new class of large surface combatant. Not saying it should be a "Trump-class battleship" but we need something bigger and more modern than what we have now.

提康德罗加级巡洋舰已年久失修，亟待换代。尽管伯克级设计优良，但在容纳新系统、满足电力需求等方面，其尺寸已近极限。我们确实需要新一代大型水面战舰。虽说未必非得是“特朗普级战列舰”，但确实需要比现有舰只更庞大、更现代化的舰艇。

CosmicBoat
That was DDGX, don't know the fate of that program now with this announcement.

那就是 DDGX 计划，目前尚不清楚在宣布这个项目后，该计划将何去何从。

arstarsta
The aesthetics of Burke have gone from fit to fat.

伯克级战舰的审美从苗条变为了臃肿。

rtsynk
i believe 'terrible-looking' was in reference to the prominent rust streaks that have been appearing recently

我相信“难看”指的是最近频繁出现的那些明显的锈迹条纹

PoliticalSasquatch
Is this the real reason behind canceling the constellation class, to free up capital for a vanity project?

取消星座级驱逐舰计划的真正原因，是否就是为了腾出资金去搞这种面子工程？

GrumpyOldGrognard
No. The Constellation class turned into an attempt to shoehorn a destroyer into a frigate-sized ship with predictable results. Today's announcement is most likely a DDG(X) / CG(X) type ship.

不是的。星座级的问题在于，它企图把驱逐舰的功能硬塞进护卫舰的尺寸里，结果可想而知。今天宣布的更可能是 DDG(X)或 CG(X)型驱逐舰。

PoliticalSasquatch
Fair enough, going a little off topic but the plan I believe is to use the legend class coast guard cutters as a base in place of the constellation class.

可以理解，话题有点偏了，但我认为计划是以传奇级海岸警卫队巡逻舰为基础，而非星座级。

Wouldn’t the same issue arise with the legend class once they are upfitted to military specs? At the very least they I imagine they will need an ASW suite and some sort of standoff missile for anti air and surface threats.

传奇级升级到军事规格后，难道不会出现同样的问题吗？至少在我看来，它们需要反潜战套件和某种用于对抗空中及水面威胁的远程导弹。

dancingcuban
That would fit in perfectly with our current fleet of cruisers shoehorned into destroyers, though.

不过，这倒与我们将巡洋舰硬塞进驱逐舰行列的现有舰队搭配得天衣无缝。

OldBratpfanne
Today's announcement is most likely a DDG(X) / CG(X) type ship with predictable results.

今天的声明很可能是一种 DDG(X)/CG(X)型舰艇，其结果是可以预见的。

Jazzlike-Tank-4956
Nilgiri Class and Type 26 are also basically destroyers shoehorned into frigate sized ships but they're still progressing well

尼尔吉里级和 26 型基本上是将驱逐舰强行塞进护卫舰尺寸的船体，但它们的发展势头良好。

It was rather the massive amount of changes made from original FREMM, logistical problem and navy not making up their mind with the QR even after kneel had been laid down among other problems

真正的问题在于最初从 FREMM 衍生时进行了大量改动，加上后勤问题，以及海军在龙骨铺设后仍未确定任务需求书等种种因素。

StealthCuttlefish
According to U.S. officials cited by the Journal, the planned vessels would be larger than existing destroyers and cruisers, with some reports suggesting displacement in the region of 15,000 to 20,000 tonnes. While the administration has revived the historic “battleship” label, defence analysts quoted in U.S. coverage note that the ships would not resemble the heavily armoured gun platforms of the 20th century, but instead function as large, missile-armed surface combatants.

据《华尔街日报》援引美国官员的说法，计划建造的舰艇将比现有驱逐舰和巡洋舰体积更大，部分报道称其排水量约在 1.5 万至 2 万吨之间。虽然政府重新启用了历史上“战列舰”这一称谓，但美国媒体报道中引述的防务分析师指出，这些舰艇不会沿用 20 世纪重型装甲火炮平台的设计，而是将作为搭载导弹的大型水面作战舰艇投入使用。

I'm going to take a wild guess and say this is either an arsenal ship or the CG(X) getting revived without the AGS?

我大胆猜测一下，这要么是武库舰，要么是 CG(X)计划去掉 AGS 后重获新生？

Edit: Never mind. Nothing could have prepared me for this.

编辑：算了。我对此毫无心理准备。

narfbuttmunch
Could be CG(X) or a CG(X) that morphs into a Zord from the Power Rangers. Really no telling with this admin.

可能是 CG(X)战舰，也可能是能变形成《恐龙战队》中佐德的 CG(X)。在这个政府领导下，真是难以预料。

Vishnej
Given what we know of Trump, and the demand for a "battleship", what are the odds he insisted on a large-caliber cannon?

考虑到我们所了解的特朗普，以及对"战列舰"的要求，他坚持要配备大口径舰炮的可能性有多大？

Bitches love cannons.

毕竟，大家都爱大炮。

EDIT: Quoting the man himself, "Why are we doing missiles, which are much more expensive? By the way, these battleships have tremendous numbers of missiles, but they also have guns, and in many ways guns can do the trick just as well as missiles"

编辑：引用他本人的话："我们为什么要用更昂贵的导弹呢？顺便说一句，这些战列舰拥有数量惊人的导弹，但它们也装备了舰炮，而且在很多情况下舰炮的效果并不亚于导弹。"

EDIT2: Lasers, railguns, cannons. He says he's going to help the Navy design them because he's "A very aesthetic person".

编辑 2：激光炮、轨道炮、传统火炮。他表示自己将协助海军设计这些武器，因为他是"一个极具美学眼光的人"。

EDIT3: I find it very credible that this is 100% about distracting from the Epstein Files, and will never be built or even seriously designed.

编辑 3：我很有理由相信，这完全是为了转移人们对爱泼斯坦文件的注意力，这类舰船根本不会被建造，甚至连认真的设计都不会启动。

Bismuth84
I hate this so much. We could have had the F/A-XX, but instead we're getting outdated garbage. We're so screwed. Russia and/or China are SO going to destroy us and our allies because the president and SecDef are idiots... or maybe this was intentional. Either it's sabotage for Russia's sake or Donnie doesn't want to defend America's allies and fight America's REAL enemies and instead just wants to pick on the little guy. You don't really need to care about hypersonic missiles when you're attacking countries like Venezuela and Greenland.

我太讨厌这个了。我们本可以获得 F/A-XX，现在却要接收过时的垃圾。我们彻底完蛋了。俄罗斯和/或中国绝对会把我们和盟友打垮，因为总统和国防部长都是白痴……又或者这是故意的。要么是为俄罗斯利益搞破坏，要么就是特朗普不想保卫美国的盟友、对抗美国真正的敌人，只敢欺负弱小国家。当你攻击委内瑞拉和格陵兰这样的国家时，确实不需要担心高超音速导弹。

GrumpyOldGrognard
The groundwork for this situation was laid down long before Trump was ever president. You can thank Obama's defense secretary, Robert "No near-peer threat for the foreseeable future" Gates, for most of this. Moving ahead with NGAD, providing at least some funding F/A-XX development, developing a realistic frigate and now a large surface combatant are steps in the right direction that previous administrations didn't take.

这种局面的基础早在特朗普成为总统之前就已奠定。大部分责任要归咎于奥巴马的国防部长罗伯特·盖茨——那位号称"可预见的未来没有近似匹敌的威胁"的人。推进 NGAD 项目，至少为 F/A-XX 研发提供部分资金，开发实用的护卫舰以及现在的大型水面作战舰艇，这些才是前几届政府未曾采取的正确方向步骤。

mr_dumpster
That 2026 money for F/A-XX is to gracefully close out the program/studies/designs, not to string it along. Primes cant keep the lights on with those teams for a half of $74MM with a chance they don’t win the contract

2026 年投入 F/A-XX 项目的资金是为了体面地结束该项目/研究/设计工作，而非拖延。主要承包商无法依靠这笔不到 7400 万美元一半的资金维持团队运转，况且他们可能无法赢得合同。

Magikarp_to_Gyarados
The groundwork for this situation was laid down long before Trump was ever president. You can thank Obama's defense secretary, Robert "No near-peer threat for the foreseeable future" Gates, for most of this.

这种局面的基础早在特朗普成为总统之前就已奠定。大部分责任要归咎于奥巴马的国防部长罗伯特·盖茨——那位号称"可预见的未来没有近似匹敌的威胁"的人。

Robert Gates was originally George W. Bush's defense secretary. The debacles with Littoral Combat Ship and Zumwalt acquisitions began under Secretary Rumsfeld's watch.

罗伯特·盖茨最初是小布什政府的国防部长。濒海战斗舰和朱姆沃尔特级驱逐舰的采购乱局始于拉姆斯菲尔德部长任内。

Weapons developed during the Obama administration are the reason the U.S. Navy has a modern conventional arsenal to deter the Chinese plaN:

正是奥巴马政府时期研发的武器，使美国海军拥有了现代化的常规武库来威慑中国海军：

AGM-158C LRASM development started in 2009 with IOC in 2018.

AGM-158C 远程反舰导弹的研发始于 2009 年，并于 2018 年形成初始作战能力。

Naval Strike Missile was being tested aboard LCS in 2014 with deployment around 2019.

海军打击导弹已于 2014 年在濒海战斗舰上完成测试，预计 2019 年前后列装部署。

Adding ASuW mode to SM-6 also occurred during the Obama administration, with successful testing in early 2016 (sinking the former USS Reuben James frigate).

在奥巴马政府时期，SM-6 导弹已成功加装反舰模式，并于 2016 年初完成击沉前"鲁本·詹姆斯号"护卫舰的实测验证。

Without these programs, the USN would have no stealthy or fast anti-ship missiles available today.

若没有这些项目，美国海军至今仍无法获得具备隐身或高速特性的反舰导弹。

developing a realistic frigate and now a large surface combatant are steps in the right direction that previous administrations didn't take.

推动务实护卫舰项目，以及当前启动大型水面作战舰艇研制，皆是前任政府未能落实的正确发展方向。

This is also not the full story.

这同样不是全部情况。

The Constellation Frigate RFI dates to July 2017, during the first Trump term. Fincantieri was awarded the Constellation contract in April 2020, also during the first Trump term: https://news.usni.org/2020_/04/30/fincantieri-wins-795m-contract-for-navy-frigate-program

星座级护卫舰的信息征询书可追溯至 2017 年 7 月，即特朗普的第一个任期期间。芬坎蒂尼于 2020 年 4 月获得星座级合同，同样在特朗普的第一个任期内：https://news.usni.org/2020_/04/30/fincantieri-wins-795m-contract-for-navy-frigate-program

LEI_MTG_ART
USS EPSTEIN is here

"爱泼斯坦"号已抵达

RobinOldsIsGod
Coming soon, the USS Jeffery Epstein, USS Ivanka Trump, USS Charlie Kirk, USS MAGA, USS Timothy Mellon, USS Cantor Fitzgerald, USS Benjamin Netanyahu, USS Rodrigo Duterte, USS * **, USS Abdel, USS Mohammed bin Salman and the USS Vladimir Putin (Would the Putin be part of the Atlantic or Pacific fleets?)

即将登场的有：杰弗里·爱泼斯坦号、伊万卡·特朗普号、查理·柯克号、MAGA 号、蒂莫西·梅隆号、坎托·菲茨杰拉德号、本雅明·内塔尼亚胡号、罗德里戈·杜特尔特号、***号、阿卜杜勒号、穆罕默德·本·萨勒曼号，以及弗拉基米尔·普京号（普京号会隶属于大西洋舰队还是太平洋舰队呢？）

MGC91
USS Vladimir Putin (Would the Putin be part of the Atlantic or Pacific fleets?)

弗拉基米尔·普京号美国军舰（这艘“普京”号会隶属大西洋舰队还是太平洋舰队？）

Atlantic. Based in Murmansk.

大西洋舰队。驻扎在摩尔曼斯克。

xf4f584
Where is the USS Kim Jong Un?

"金正恩"号又在何方？

RobinOldsIsGod
Good question, IDK, we haven't heard much talk about Rocket Man this time around.

好问题，我不知道，这次关于“火箭人”的讨论我们听得不多。

Borne2Run
And also the USS Tamerlane, USS Borijin, and USS "Scourge of God, the flail of mankind, and thundering Hammer"

还有“帖木儿号”、“孛儿只斤号”，以及“天罚、人类之鞭、雷霆之锤号”。

ImjustANewSneaker
Please dexe the Kirk one immediately I can already see it

请立刻删除柯克相关创作 我已能预见其发展

trainguru13
A little "devil's advocate" benefit of the doubt? If this is to be a "Battleship" successor to the Iowa-class, and match- if not "out-class" the Kirov-class? What size of traditional gun will be realistic? It will have lasers, it will have hypersonic missile capabilities, it will have regular missiles. What is a realistic caliber of gun?

不妨抱持一点"唱反调"式的善意假设？如果这艘船要成为衣阿华级战列舰的继任者，并力求与基洛夫级匹敌甚至超越，那么现实可行的传统火炮口径应是多少？它将配备激光武器、高超音速导弹能力以及常规导弹。怎样的火炮口径才是切实可行的？

Crazed_Chemist
Pretend we use the only thing close to a rail gun we've seen, Japan's prototype. It's gonna be small. The prototype is 40mm. You're trading mass for velocity. Even 5 inch is probably a pipe dream.

假设我们使用的是我们见过的最近似于电磁炮的设备——日本的样机。它将会很小。样机口径为 40 毫米。这是在用质量换取速度。就算是 5 英寸口径，恐怕也是痴人说梦。

Vishnej
"Caliber of gun" is probably a phrase best reserved for barreled cannons, not railguns.

"火炮口径"这个表述，可能更适用于传统身管火炮，而非电磁炮。

There are still militaries fielding 8 inch howitzers.

目前仍有军队在装备 8 英寸榴弹炮。

The question becomes more about the optimal design-space of the shell-rocket hybrid, to help attain extended range. Whether there is any niche in which it has the best solution. Ramjet shells seem like they have some synergy with large-bore cannons, if you can simplify the design to the point of being practically producible ($50k not $50M).

问题更多在于探寻炮弹-火箭混合体的最佳设计空间，以实现增程。关键在于是否存在某个特定领域，这种设计能提供最优解决方案。冲压炮弹似乎与大口径火炮有一定协同效应，前提是你能简化设计，使其切实可量产（成本控制在 5 万美元而非 5000 万美元）。

PreferenceMediocre90
I am pretty sure this well eventually be refitted Kirov class ships given to DJT for bringing peace to Russia.

我相当肯定这些最终会是翻新后的基洛夫级巡洋舰，交给唐纳德·特朗普用于促进俄罗斯的和平。

drunkmuffalo
What he is serious?

他认真的吗？