美国是怎么帮助中国成为其潜在对手的?毕竟50年前中国还是个第三世界国家
How did the US help China to become her potential rival because China was a third world country 5 decades ago?
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网友:美国通过各种限制、禁令和制裁,反而加速了中国本土技术的发展,推动了中国走向自给自足和自力更生。
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The US throught various restrictions, bans and sanctions had expedite China advance and development of indeginous technologies, to be self sufficient and self reliant.
The US stopped China from joining European space exoration in 2011. NASA bar Chinese national to its facilities and materials. Therefore China had to rely on its own and today China has the most modern and advanced space station from this planet.
The US restricted China use of US GPS satellite system, therefore China has no choice but to develop it's own Beidou satellite system, which is more accurate than GPS and more widely used by countries across the world.
The US banned China purchase of EUV machine, try to suppress China from producing advanced chip, China had tremendous breakthroughs and today is the world top chip producer and exporters.
Huawei and other tech giants in China are in advance stage of producing EUV and chip that ranked top in the world in term of performance. All these are impossible without the US banning and restrictions.
China will be totally dependent on US satellite system, tracing behind in space exploration, import most tech equipments, components and chips if not because of US bans and restrictions.
A big thank for the US far sighted help and motivation.
【回答】
美国通过各种限制、禁令和制裁,反而加速了中国本土技术的发展,推动了中国走向自给自足和自力更生。
2011年,美国阻止中国参与欧洲的太空探索项目。美国国家航空航天局(NASA)禁止中国人进入其设施、接触其材料。因此,中国不得不依靠自己,如今拥有了地球上最现代化、最先进的太空站。
美国限制中国使用美国的GPS卫星系统,中国别无选择,只能自主研发北斗卫星系统。如今北斗比GPS更精准,在全球范围内被更多国家广泛使用。
美国禁止中国购买极紫外光刻机(EUV),试图压制中国生产先进芯片的能力。中国却取得了重大突破,如今已成为全球顶尖的芯片生产国和出口国。
华为等中国科技巨头在极紫外光刻机和芯片研发方面已处于世界领先水平,性能位居全球前列。如果没有美国的禁令和限制,这一切都不可能实现。
如果不是因为美国的禁令和限制,中国可能至今仍完全依赖美国的卫星系统,在太空探索领域落后,大量进口技术设备、零部件和芯片。
真要感谢美国这种“富有远见”的帮助和激励。
Michael X
China also helped the US out growing the rest of western countries after the 90s. The US printed, the China absorbed all those currencies without causing inflation. The manufacturing industry didn’t relocate to China from the US. The US lost its manufacturing industry in the 70s to Europe and Japan. China got the opportunity, because the US was losing to the Europe and Japan. PRC helped the US won the already losing battle.
As you can see, the manufacturing industry really have the lowest added value on the surface. In a free market economy, all the advanced economy would lose them eventually. But face value isn’t real value. Unless face value chain re-adjust, the US will be fighting against the rules of economics. No one ever beat basic rules of economies.
By the way, without China, whether the US could have won the cold war was a big question, let alone beating Europe and Japan. When Nixon visited, he was begging China helping him to exit the Vietnam war without humiliation.
【回答】
中国在90年代后也帮助美国超越了其他西方国家。美国印钞,中国吸收了所有这些货币而没有引发通胀。制造业并非从美国转移到中国,美国在70年代就因欧洲和日本的竞争失去了制造业。中国得到机会,是因为美国当时正输给欧洲和日本。中国帮助美国打赢了这场原本处于下风的竞争。
可以看出,制造业表面上的附加值确实最低。在自由市场经济中,所有发达经济体最终都会失去它。但表面价值不等于真实价值。除非价值链重新调整,否则美国就是在对抗经济规律。从来没有人能打败基本的经济规律。
顺便一提,没有中国,美国能否赢得冷战都是个大问题,更别说打败欧洲和日本了。尼克松访华时,他是在恳求中国帮助他体面地结束越南战争。
Peter Ole Kvint 3
No one in the United States imagined that China would become a rival to America's world dominance.
【回答】
在美国,没人想到中国会成为挑战美国世界主导地位的对手。
Jerrytheputz
By letting China manufacture products to exploit the Chinese workers who were underpaid and worked hard, this allowed China to learn our methods of manufacturing then as they got better we started to give them higher tech products to assemble this culminated in us selling nuclear reactors to the Chinese who rapidly copied them and made changes then they started building those reactors for themselves. We had them assembling regional passenger jets both Boeing and airbus and they used technology gleaned from that to build their own, they hacked into Boeings computer servers and liftedalot of forbidden tech from Boeings military projects and I know they did that to many different corporations. Well now they have our technology and the means to build it. They are pretty much past the cut and paste copy phase and now are world class innovators. I think American greed is to blame and the USA still continues to hand them technology on a silver platter. I guess capitalist greed trumps common sense just look at how dumb America truly is to elect an orange skinned pedophile that worships Vladimir Putin not once but twice. This is why the USA is being abandoned by its allies it’s rotted right to the core and there is no way to fix the stupidity that is the American people in any meaningful way.
【回答】
通过让中国制造产品来BOXUE那些工资低、工作辛苦的中国工人,这使中国学到了我们的制造方法。随着他们水平提高,我们开始给他们更高科技的产品组装,最终甚至向中国出售核反应堆。中国人迅速复制并改进,然后开始自己建造这些反应堆。我们让他们组装波音和空客的支线客机,他们利用从中获取的技术来造自己的飞机,还入Q波音的服务器,Qie取了许多波音军工项目的禁运技术——我知道他们对很多公司都这么干。现在他们有了我们的技术和制造能力。他们基本已经过了简单复制粘贴的阶段,成了世界级的创新者。我认为该怪美国人的贪婪,美国至今还在把技术拱手送上。看来资本家的贪婪压倒了常识——看看美国有多蠢,竟然选出一个崇拜普京、肤色橙黄的恋童癖,一次不够还选了两次。这就是为什么美国的盟友都在抛弃它:这个国家从根上烂透了,美国人的愚蠢已经无药可救。
Vincent Maldia
Start from the beginning. The west invested in China and bought Chinese made products, making both the investors and China itself rich. Of course the investors getting rich was a priority. The assumption was that (after the investors got rich) through trade and cultural exchange and economic growth China would rise to become a prosperous and friendly nation to the west. If you get to know each other and are business you might become friends.
Of course propgandists will interpret that in the worst way, like “becoming a subservient lapdog or vassal state to the west”.
Starting a couple of decades ago, another thing happened. I call it cold war 2, the now more prosperous China starting to go against the west for various reasons which are too long to tackle here. Some reasons are legit, some not. So, various restrictions were laid on China. China is wealthier and more technologically advanced by then so it could in some cases bypass the restrictions by becoming more self reliant and finding alternatives. Analogous to the 1970’s energy crisis which spurred the non OPEC countries to seek alternate sources of energy aside from oil.
【回答】
一开始,西方投资中国,购买中国制造的产品,让投资者和中国都富了起来。当然,投资者赚钱是首要目的。当时的想法是,等投资者赚到钱后,通过贸易、文化交流和经济增长,中国会崛起成为一个繁荣且对西方友好的国家。如果彼此了解并有生意往来,就可能成为朋友。
当然,宣传人士会往最坏的方面解读,比如“成为西方顺从的走狗或附庸国”。
大约从几十年前开始,另一件事发生了。我称之为冷战2.0——如今更加富裕的中国开始出于各种原因与西方对抗,这些原因太复杂,这里就不细说了。有些理由合理,有些不合理。于是,西方对中国施加了各种限制。那时中国已经更富裕,技术也更先进,所以在某些情况下可以通过增强自给自足和寻找替代方案来绕过这些限制。这有点像1970年代的能源危机,促使非欧佩克国家寻找石油以外的替代能源。
Nick Stene
Running a huge trade deficit for decades, same as the rest of the world, to the extent that China has been called “the world’s factory”.
US business owners have betrayed US national interests for higher profits, and now continue to fight for low cost manufacturing options to further enrich rival nations and themselves and shareholders. One of the worries about India+1 strategy replacing China+1 is that the next big rival is just over the time horizon, and within a generation that same dynamic can unfold.
These C-Suite execs will also do anything to obxt to being accountable on this, even inside their own mind, because no one wants to look either short sighted or selfishly evil…but that choice is both. It is also dictated by the principles of capitalism (if those C-Suite execs did not follow those principles, they can be replaced by those who will - so those C-Suite execs have someone else to blame for their selfish choices). That must be a twisty psychological aspect to cope with for Trump and Vance in their tariff and US value creation strategy - Republicans realizing they are fighting the outcome of normal capitalist principles.
it is also worth pointing out that this helped - but China played the game very well in its own right; in chess terms, they are playing multiple moves ahead, and out-thinking their US opponents. That rare earth topic was floating for decades as a future dependence issue - but they sure weaponised that at an interesting moment, in a way that took foresight and seven years of preparation.
【回答】
几十年来,中国像世界其他国家一样维持着巨额贸易逆差,以至于被称为“世界工厂”。美国企业主为追求更高利润而背弃了美国国家利益,如今仍在争取低成本制造选项,以进一步充实竞争对手国家及其自身和股东的财富。
对于用“印度+1”战略替代“中国+1”的担忧之一在于,下一个强大对手可能即将出现,同样的局面可能在一代人的时间内重演。
这些企业高管会竭尽全力逃避对此的责任,甚至在内心也不愿承认,因为没人愿意显得目光短浅或自私邪恶…但他们的选择恰恰两者兼具。这也是资本主义原则所决定的(如果这些高管不遵循这些原则,就会被愿意遵循的人取代——因此他们可以将自私选择归咎于他人)。对于特朗普和万斯的关税及美国价值创造战略而言,这必然是个需要应对的心理矛盾:共和党人意识到,他们正在对抗正常资本主义原则所导致的结果。
同样值得指出的是,这确实起到了作用,但中国自身也在这场博弈中表现得很出色;用国际象棋来比喻,他们提前布局多步,智胜了美国对手。稀土话题作为未来依赖性问题已流传数十年,但他们确实在一个关键时机将其武器化,这需要远见和长达七年的准备。
Lukic Mike
Greed, a lots of greed from US industry and banking. They heavily invested in China for cheap labor and and taxes. China’s rich natural resources to be exploited cheaply are still keeping China in advantage, some materials that can’t be found anywhere or in small quantities else just made Trump back off his threats to hike import rates. High teach industry would be lost without them
It was also seen as opening to own markets to billion people country that didn’t have high tech capabilities. Europe also got into it big way for same reasons.
New problem now, Chinese got wise and learned fast, Invested in education and science and now matching anything the rest of world has and surpassing in some fields.
【回答】
美国工业和银行业真是贪得无厌。他们当初大举投资中国,图的就是廉价劳动力和税收优惠。中国丰富的自然资源能以低成本开采,这至今仍是中国的优势。有些材料别处根本找不到或储量稀少,光凭这点就让特朗普不敢真的加征进口关税。没有这些资源,高科技产业都得瘫痪。
当时也被看作是对一个缺乏高科技能力的十亿人口市场敞开大门。欧洲后来也出于同样原因大规模跟进。
现在的新问题是:中国人变聪明了,学得飞快,大力投资教育和科技,如今已经能媲美世界其他国家的任何技术,甚至在部分领域实现了反超。
Yousuf Khan
The US helped China by being incredibly short-sighted. When you outsource all (literally, all!) of your production to a third world country, it’s going to grow economically, and your country will be depressed.
But, it was also due to China’s own long-sightedness. It used this opportunity to uplift its own people from poverty to the middle class, 800 million people! It has figured out that its own people are its greatest strength, not a burden like Western countries think. The Chinese government didn’t spend all of that time enriching themselves. Once the poor are uplifted, they can become educated, and turn into an unstoppable workforce, that keeps the country in a self-sustained growth rates.
【回答】
美国的短视帮了中国。当你把所有(真的是所有!)生产都外包给一个第三世界国家时,那个国家经济就会增长,而你自己国家则会陷入萧条。
但这也得益于中国自己的长远眼光。中国利用这个机会让8亿人摆脱贫困,迈入中产阶层!中国认识到自己的人民是最大的力量,而不是像西方国家认为的那样是负担。中国政府没有把所有时间都花在为自己谋利上。一旦穷人生活得到改善,他们就能接受教育,成为不可阻挡的劳动力,使国家保持自我持续的增长。
Jim Arona
Well, Nixon engaged diplomatically with China and turned it towards the Global Economy of the time, which in turn, turned it away from Russia. This defanged the USSR of the time, and eventually led to the Berlin Wall coming down, and the federalisation of Russia.
But,then the moron Donald Trump became president, offended everyone and we’re looking at nuclear options, something that we had stopped doing by the nineties.
【回答】
尼克松通过外交手段与中国接触,将其引入当时的全球经济体系,从而使其疏远苏联。这削弱了当时苏联的力量,最终导致柏林墙倒塌和俄罗斯联邦化。
但后来,白痴唐纳德·特朗普当上总统,得罪了所有人,我们现在又得考虑核选项了——这种事我们在九十年代就已经不再做了。