印度、中国和巴基斯坦的歼-35与AMCA隐形战斗机对比

@yongchen8204
China has rare earth materials to slow down and makes it expensive for any countries acquire stealthy fighting jets, including America’s advanced aircraft manufacturing.

中国掌握了稀土资源，可以在关键时刻说卡就卡，抬高隐身战机的制造成本——这不仅影响其他国家，也会影响美国先进战机的制造成本。

@oceanljm
In view of the fact that AMCA is lagging behind the world after the successful development of AMCA, I suggest that India immediately abandon the development of AMCA and immediately create a new PPT file, which I suggest is called Super AMCA. If the Indians are not satisfied, I suggest that you can create a new PPT file called Super SAMCA.

考虑到“AMCA”成功开发后依然落后世界，我建议印度立刻放弃“AMCA”，直接新建一个PPT项目，叫“Super AMCA”。如果印度人还不满意，就再建一个PPT叫“Super SAMCA”。

@rishabhdaman7474
Incredible. So heartening to see the knowledge and details Vishnu and Shiv are going into. Unlike other channels indulging in rhetoric without any clear knowledge. Kudos

太棒了。看到Vishnu和Shiv讲得既有知识深度又有细节，真是令人振奋。不像其他频道只会喊口号却毫无内容。点赞。

@HamidAbbasi-y5x
Actually Pakistan has played it's cards very smartly. Pakistan isn't just getting J-35A. Its also getting KJ-500 AWACS which is better integrated with J-35A and the most important of them all. HQ-19 AIR DEFENCE SYSTEM which is the REAL THREAT TO INDIA.
Also on the other hand, Pakistan is working with Turkey to create KAAN and with the help of that it will work on it's own indigenous Jet under Project AZM. So planning of Pakistan Airforce is commendable and very sharp. India even today is doing one mistake that it does not create Jets and other technologies by CO-OPERATING with other nations instead it tries to make it by itself which takes time. And India does not have that. Due to this Pakistan puts pressure on India and India starts making Panic procurements.

巴基斯坦玩得非常聪明。他们不仅采购J-35A，还采购了与J-35A高度整合的KJ-500预警机，最关键的是HQ-19防空系统，这才是真正威胁印度的玩意儿。
同时，巴基斯坦还在跟土耳其联合研制KAAN项目，并借此研发本国的“AZM”战机。这种空军规划值得称道，策略很机智。
相比之下，印度现在还在犯一个错误：不通过与他国合作制造战机和其他技术，偏偏想全靠自己来，耗时长还成本高，可印度根本没有那个基础。结果巴基斯坦就趁机给压力，印度只好慌忙采购。

In Episode 8 of the CTRL ALT DEFENCE Podcast, Vishnu Som and Shiv Aroor ask a hard question: Is India too late with the AMCA stealth fighter? With Pakistan set to receive the J-35 and China already flying sixth-generation prototypes, will India’s AMCA—scheduled for induction only by 2035—still be relevant? We explore India’s stealth strategy, air defense alternatives, the global stealth race, and the risks of delay. Should India go for a stopgap fighter like the Su-57 or F-35? What are the technological hurdles, and is the AMCA enough for future warfare? Tune in for a deep-dive discussion.

在《CTRL ALT DEFENCE》播客第8集中，Vishnu Som和Shiv Aroor提出了一个尖锐的问题：印度在AMCA隐形战斗机方面是否为时已晚？巴基斯坦即将接收歼-35，而中国也已开始试飞第六代原型机，那么印度计划在2035年才开始列装的AMCA是否仍然具有现实意义？我们将探讨印度的隐形战略、防空替代方案、全球隐形竞赛以及项目延期的风险。印度是否应该选择像苏-57或F-35这样的权宜之计？其中存在哪些技术障碍？AMCA是否足以应对未来的战争？敬请收听深入探讨。

@electromega3077
AMCA is technologically light years ahead to any 5th or 6th gen fighters, especially against the J-35. The stealth technology of AMCA is in fact so insanely advanced that no one is able to see the jet physically, not even Indian people themselves.

AMCA在技术上远远超越任何第五代或第六代战斗机，尤其是在对抗J-35时更是如此。AMCA的隐身技术堪称惊世，以至于物理上根本看不见这架战机，连印度人自己都认不出来。

@TradcomInternational-u4m
first get it up in the air - it is only on paper - example is tejas experience - not ready after 40 years

先把它真的飞上天吧——现在它只是在纸面上，就像“光辉战机”的例子，四十年都没准备好。

@Balochonmove
When Indian Air Force gets AMCA, Pakistan will be receiving 6th generation aircraft.

当印度空军拥有AMCA的那一天，巴基斯坦早就已经拿到第六代战机了。

@suchins3947
careful buddy … you would need to recieve the 5th gen ones first … which as per your own defense ministers words yesterday on LIVE TV is " its only on social media "

小心点，兄弟……你得先拿到第五代战机啊……根据你们自己的国防部长昨天在直播电视上说的话，那个“第五代”只“存在于社交媒体”上。

@andikaverdian9664
The best option for India is to be friend with your neighbour , not become proxy for the US ...

对印度而言，最好的选择是与邻为善，而不是成为美国的傀儡……

@canadianbillo
at least 1 sensible comment. Stop bulling your neighbors and make good relationship . look around Pakistan. China, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh , you are not good with anyone. You dont need 5th-6th generation aircrafts if you make peace with your neighbors. You can pick your friends but you cant pick your neighbors.. !!

至少说了一句明智的话。别再欺负邻国了，跟大家好好相处。看看巴基斯坦、中国、斯里兰卡、孟加拉国，你跟谁都没搞好关系。如果你们肯和邻国和平共处，就根本不需要第五代、 第六代战机。你可以选择朋友，却不能选择邻居。！

@emaanali8009
As a Pakistani I agree 100% why should we fight when we can literally talk and solve these issues it all politicians on both sides that benefit from the hate they fuel. Why would I want people to die over something that can literally be solved with dialogue

作为巴基斯坦人，我完全同意。为什么要战斗呢？我们完全可以坐下来谈判解决问题，只有两边的政客从他们煽动的仇恨中获益。让人为了那些通过对话能解决的事情去死有什么意义？

@shamssalehin2376
If india giveup usa and israel and be sensible about kasmisr issue, stop hinduvata terrorism and border killing, they might be friend with neighbors that will be true akhond moha vharot collectively.

如果印度能放弃依赖美以，对克什米尔问题持理性态度，停止“印度教至上主义”的恐怖行为和边境屠杀，那他们完全可以和邻国成为朋友，这才是真正的“大印度集体”。

@yourenemy2690
Pakistan getting actual 5th gen aircraft and India is getting only the Card board model of 5th gen jet.

巴基斯坦将会获得真正的第五代战机，而印度得到的只是纸板模型。

@AjayManchanda-c3v
India started way way way behind China, Russia and the US in space.
People laughed and joked about ISRO's Chandrayaan-1 that exploded during launch.
And yet, there is a Mars probe (Mangalyaan) in orbit and a Chandrayaan-2 that landed on the dark side of the moon.
Science and Technology is our sweet spot.

印度在太空竞赛中的起步比中俄美晚得多，当初有人嘲笑ISRO的“月船1号”发射时就爆炸了。
然而现在，印度的火星探测器“Mangalyaan”已经进入轨道，月船2号更是成功登陆月球背面。
科学与技术是我们的核心优势。

@oceanwave4502
In 10 years, India will have 5h gen fighter jet, but by that time, Pakistan and China will have already something else, e.g. 6th gen fighter jet (autonomous, swarm, etc.)

十年后，印度或许会有第五代战机了，但那时候巴基斯坦和中国早就有“其他东西”，比如第六代战机（自主、蜂群等）了。

@philipe222
Do you know, we started our engine development program, way back in 1980's. We are proud if ISRO and DRDO. My question is If ISRO and DRDO can do it, why HAL cant do it? And why goverment is not acting on HAL? Till today HAL has never completed a project on time. Not even a single one. Just eating tax payers money.

你知道吗？我们的发动机研发计划早在上世纪八十年代就启动了，我们为ISRO和DRDO感到自豪。我的问题是：既然ISRO和DRDO能干成这事，为什么HAL（印度斯坦航空公司）就不行？政府为什么不整治HAL？到今天为止，HAL从来没有按时完成过一个项目，一个都没，它们只会浪费纳税人的钱。

@AjayManchanda-c3v
Once you learn to make your own engine and airfrxs, with hard-earned knowledge of material science and fluid mechanics, the next plane will take 50% of the time to make. The one after that will take 25% of the time. As long as India has a love for knowledge and science and math, this gap will narrow.

一旦掌握了发动机和机身结构制造的关键技术，伴随材料科学和流体力学的经验积累，下一款飞机的制造时间就能缩短一半，再下一款只需四分之一的时间。只要印度热爱知识、科学与数学，这个差距终将缩小。

@ranaahmad2781
India could not stand against J10 and lost 6 fighter jets including 3 Rafale. Just imagine what J35 is going to do with IAF.

印度根本抵挡不住J10，还损失了六架战机，包括三架阵风。现在想想印度空军面对J35会是什么下场？

@mj3.14
I was surprised to learn that many in India believe no Indian aircraft was shot down during the India-Pakistan conflict. Consider this: why did the Indian Air Force reportedly not deploy any fighter jets after the initial air engagement?

我很惊讶地发现很多印度人竟然相信在印巴冲突中没有任何一架印度战机被击落。想一想：为什么在最初的空战之后，印度空军就没有再出动战斗机？

@doctor2331-v2o
Not just that, IAF was basically grounded and pushed back 300-400 Kms from the Pakistani Kill Zone , they didn't even know when they were locked and what hit them.
No disrespect for the pilots serving their nation state , but the Indian government is a little too much involved in using an aggressive escalatory platform in so-called Non-escalatory air to ground incursion, what were they thinking.
Even if India does acquire Fifth generation fighters it won't make any difference for obvious reasons..

不止如此，印度空军几乎被迫停飞，并从巴基斯坦的打击区后撤了三四百公里，他们甚至不知道自己何时被锁定、被击中。
我不是不尊重那些为国家服役的飞行员，但印度政府过于执着于所谓“非升级性”空袭的攻击性平台，这究竟是在想什么？
即使印度真的获得第五代战机也不会有任何改变，原因太明显了。

@cinefile0075
military experts Tom Cooper Walter Ludwig and John Spencer said it's clear cut India's victory or upper hand over the conflict with all the satellite images. Same with many American think tanks like brookings and Stimson and many defence think tanks too, they also agreed on with military experts and historians. So what you say by taking money from *** doesn't matter

军事专家汤姆·库珀、沃尔特·路德维希和约翰·斯宾塞表示，从所有卫星图像来看，这是印度的胜利或者至少印度占据了上风。很多美国智库如布鲁金斯、斯廷森中心以及其他国防智库也都持相同的观点，许多军事史学家也同意。因此你说那些拿了中G钱的人说的什么根本不值一提。

@firevampireyt1141
@cinefile0075 idk what you are trying to say by viewing ones opinion if you saw the satellite images of indian airbases you can see clear destruction as well as iaf jets were shot down also admitted by the cds so its not fake , indian s400 couldn’t intercept Pakistani cheap artillery mission fatah 1 and 2, on the other hand India used their best brahmos which i am not saying that it did not hit it did hit but majority were intercepted, also india was isolated from the world so is that india’s win?

@cinefile0075 我不知道你想表达什么观点。你如果看了印度空军基地的卫星图像，你可以清楚地看到破坏的痕迹，还有印度空军的战机被击落，这连印度参谋长都承认了，不是假的。印度的S400拦不住巴基斯坦廉价的火箭弹“胜利一号”和“胜利二号”。另一方面，印度用了最强的布拉莫斯导弹，我不是说它没命中，它确实命中了，但大多数都被拦截了。印度还在这场冲突中被全世界孤立了，这算印度赢了吗？

@cinefile0075
@firevampireyt1141 isolated so its india's win ?? Lol *** bots are funny af. Isolated doesnt mean anything. Did it deliver ?? Yes. 11 bases...not one satellite image of indian base....

被孤立所以算印度赢？？笑死了，***的水军真有意思。被孤立又不代表什么。打中了吗？打中了，摧毁了11个基地……可没有一张印度的基地被摧毁的卫星图像……

@khayyam2302
Pakistan is set to acquire 40 J-35 stealth fighter jets from China this year and is also partnering in Turkey's KAAN 5th-generation fighter jet project, a major step forward in strengthening its air capabilities.

巴基斯坦今年将从中国获得40架J-35隐形战斗机，同时还参与了土耳其KAAN第五代战斗机项目，这在增强其空军能力方面是一次重大的飞跃。

@whitemoon5752
And India under Modi betrayed Iran by rejecting SCO declaration, failing to condemn Israel at UN whereas China, Russia, Pakistan and Algeria called the UN general secretary meeting for action of Israel. How can someone trust India everyone is asking? How can India now speak for Global South when it closely tries to align with the Global north especially close to US

莫迪领导下的印度背叛了伊朗，拒绝签署上合组织声明，在联合国也未谴责以色列。而与此同时，中国、俄罗斯、巴基斯坦和阿尔及利亚都呼吁联合国秘书长就以色列行动召开会议。大家都在问：谁还会信任印度？印度如今和“全球北方”尤其是美国走得那么近，怎么还有脸代表“全球南方”？

@nickgoh8947
China 2037: Full production underway after flawless test flights of our 8th-gen hypersonic drone fleet—unmanned, unstoppable, and already outdated by our 9th-gen lab sketches.
India 2037: Semi-production initiated after AMCA prototype’s "mostly successful" test flight! 50% indigenous (bolts), 50% outsourced (everything else). Truly a triumph of jugaad engineering.

中国2037年：第八代高超音速无人机机队完成完美试飞后进入全面生产——无人操控、势不可挡，实验室里的第九代原型的草图已让它提前过时。
印度2037年：在AMCA原型机“基本成功”的试飞之后，半量产正式启动！50%国产（螺丝钉），50%外包（其他所有东西）。绝对是“印度式凑合工程”的又一胜利。

@nickgoh8947
Fun Fact:
During the 1962 Sino-Indian War, the Chinese pla decisively overpowered Indian forces at every strategic Himalayan choke point, capturing thousands of prisoners along with vast quantities of arms, tanks, artillery, and vehicles. Despite total military dominance, China treated all Indian prisoners humanely — providing ample food, medical care, and eventual safe repatriation without conditions.
Even as forward units advanced to within striking distance of New Delhi, Beijing unilaterally ordered a full withdrawal to pre-war borders, demonstrating restraint unseen in modern warfare.
Had China sought to harm India, today’s territories north of the Ganges would function as a well-governed autonomous region under Chinese administration — free from the chronic pollution, toxic air, and infrastructural neglect that plague the region. The restoration of Bihar’s ancient Buddhist university, destroyed in the 12th century, might even stand as a cultural landmark.
The truth remains: No external power covets India’s chaos. Its greatest threats stem not from beyond its borders, but from the failures of its own leaders and self-proclaimed gurus.

趣味的事实：
1962年中印战争期间，中国人民解放军在每一个喜马拉雅山战略要塞都彻底压倒了印度军队，他们俘虏来数千人并缴获了大量的武器、坦克、大炮和车辆。尽管拥有全面的军事优势，中国依然人道地对待所有印度战俘——提供充足的食物、医疗，并最终无条件安全遣返。
即使前线部队推进到可直接打击新德里的位置，北京也单方面下令全部撤回至战前的边界，这种克制在现代战争中极为罕见。
若中国真的想伤害印度，如今恒河以北的领土也许早已成为中国管理良好的自治区并摆脱了如今的污染、毒雾和基础设施崩溃问题，甚至比哈尔邦那所在12世纪被摧毁的古老佛教大学也可能已经恢复并成为文化地标。
真相是：没有任何外部势力觊觎印度的混乱。印度最大的威胁从来不是来自边境之外，而是来自自己领导人和那些自封为导师的失败者。

@lowaz4745
Indian doesn't have the necessary technology to build 5th genaration fighter. Look at Tejas, it took them 40 years to build 2.5 G figher. And even though, most key parts are bought from western countries. Their industrial level is light years behind developped country. I bet even by 2045, Indian's AMCA won't be completed.

印度根本没有建造第五代战斗机所需的技术。看看“光辉战机”就知道了，他们用了整整40年才造出一款2.5代战机，而且关键的部件大多还依赖从西方国家采购。他们的工业水平与发达国家相比相差十万八千里。我敢打赌，到2045年，“AMCA”都不可能完工。

@lyttlebee
In the meantime, Firstpost and Republic World are still bragging about how superior Indian air force is...followed by a bunch of overhyped hot-headed Indian viewers. Face the gap and encourage people to take a modest mindset in learning from the real superpower is what Indian media should do.

与此同时，《Firstpost》和“Republic World”还在吹嘘印度空军有多强……底下一群被炒作得沸腾的印度观众也跟着附和。印度媒体应该直面这个差距，鼓励人们以谦逊心态向真正的超级大国学习。

@qertninja
I was reading about LCA when I was in college about 35 years ago. So even if we are optimistic it will take minimum 25 years to get full feature stealth AMCA which is 2050

我大学时读到过LCA（轻型战斗机），这事到现在已经差不多35年了。所以即使我们再乐观，“AMCA”要实现全面隐身，最早也得2030年后，实际完成恐怕要到2050年。

@zackviccaji6342
Kab banega AMCA kab nachegi radha, this is a joke being played with Indian people, when AMCA will be made and we dont even know if it will, 10 years later, all countries will be on 6th gen, this is a total failure of godi government...If war breaks out with Pakistan having J-35 we are literally doomed air defense wise.

“AMCA什么时候会有，什么时候会飞”——这完全就是在拿印度人开玩笑。我们连它能不能做出来都不知道，十年后，全世界都将进入第六代战机的时代。这是戈迪政府的彻底失败……如果跟装备了J‑35的巴基斯坦开战，我们在防空上真的就完了。

@harpreetseera181
10 years is the optimistic timefrx for AMCA. There is no precedence of DRDO/HAL of ever having delivered anything on time. We have missed the bus on 5th gen and perhaps on manned fighters itself. All eyes on UAVs and all hope is on the private sector now.

十年是对“AMCA”最乐观的预期，DRDO和HAL从来没有准时交付过任何东西。我们已经错过了第五代战机的机会，甚至有人认为有人驾驶战机就快落后了，现在所有的注意力都转向了无人机，所有的希望都寄托在私企身上。

@xgguo3531
Quick solution should be buying stealth fighter jet instead of developing a new one(take more than 10 years).
Russia: available for sale but not good technology
USA: available for sale with conditions
China: not available for India but for Pakistan.
Looks India is kind of connered without perfect choice.
How about improve relationship with China, similar as Russia-China relationship?

快速解决方案是直接买隐身战机，而不是自己开发一个（要花超10年时间）。
俄罗斯：可以买，但技术不过关
美国：可以买，但有附加条件
中国：印度买不到，却卖给了巴基斯坦
看起来印度目前没办法选出最佳方案，要不干脆像俄中那样改善同中国的关系？

@justakeit
Here's some solid advice for you: First, India currently doesn't face any external threats, including from Pakistan. If you don't provoke Pakistan, they won't launch an invasion of India.
Similarly, whether India develops weapons or not, you can't compete with China, so I suggest you just give up.
If India doesn't actively invade other countries, then India currently has no external threats, because in terms of India's current development, other countries almost don't see the value of invading India. Only when you are strong enough will someone threaten you. And now, no one is interested in India.

我给你一些实在的建议：首先，印度目前不存在外部威胁，包括来自巴基斯坦的。如果你们不挑衅，巴基斯坦也不会入侵你们。
再者，不管印度开发多少武器，都难以与中国竞争，所以建议你们放弃吧。
只要印度不主动侵略别人，目前还是安全的，按当前的发展水平，几乎没人觉得入侵印度有啥收益。只有当你们足够强，才会有敌人上门。而现在，谁都不会在意印度。