Cherry放弃在德国生产，将业务外包给中国，并希望出售核心部门

Sad to see another German brand outsourcing to China. Beyerdynamics (headphone manufacturer) was also sold to a Chinese company this year.
 
很遗憾看到又一个德国品牌将业务外包给中国。拜亚动力（Beyerdynamic，耳机制造商）今年也被卖给了一家中国公司。
 
ACatWithAThumb
likes: 735
It‘s their own fault, this is classic German company mismanagement. They had the patent on the switches that they developed decades ago, but instead of doing new investments and keep innovating they do nothing and let the patent expire. This is the case with almost all German companies, once the leadership moves to the second or third generation they stop investments and play margin reduction games until the company collapses. Now cherry has no patents and sub par quality and production that is more expensive too.
I‘m expecting Noctua to end up like this too.
 
这是他们咎由自取，是典型的德国式公司管理不善。他们拥有几十年前开发的轴体专利，但他们不进行新投资也不持续创新，而是无所作为，直到专利过期。几乎所有德国公司都是这种情况，一旦领导权移交给第二代或第三代，他们就会停止投资，玩弄压缩利润率的把戏，直到公司倒闭。现在Cherry既没有专利，质量也不达标，而且生产成本还更高。
我预计猫头鹰（Noctua）最终也会落得这般下场。
 
Rittersepp
likes: 274
This is so German it hurts, thinking by doing nothing that nothing will change just to ultimately collapsing once you realize that everything around you has changed.
not sure which way fritz! is going but it seems to be a direction that I'm not happy with, as well...
 
这太“德国”了，让人痛心。他们以为只要什么都不做，一切就能维持原状，直到意识到周围的一切都变了，最终走向崩溃。
不知道Fritz!（路由器品牌）正走向何方，但看起来也是一个我不满意的方向……
 
Luvax
likes: 157
The entire country is starting to crumble under this thinking. Not just companies: infrastructure, health care, outlook for younger people, political parties. Everything is stuck and no one is pushing forward.
 
在这种思维模式下，整个国家开始分崩离析。不仅仅是公司：基础设施、医疗保健、年轻人的前景、政党都是如此。一切都陷入停滞，没有人推动前行。
 
Rittersepp
likes: 74
I know, it is infuriating to see (as a relatively young German) that even if you bring new ideas or concepts to basically any part of life in this country, the fear of change is bigger than the fear of deteriorating by doing nothing.
 
我知道，（作为一个相对年轻的德国人）看到这种情况真是令人愤怒：即使你给这个国家生活的几乎任何领域带来新想法或新概念，人们对改变的恐惧也远大于对因无所作为而衰退的恐惧。
 
Background-Lab-8521
likes: 35
So many mid-sized companies here are working under the unspoken agreement that the people in charge want to now just bridge the next 10-15 years into retirement and then call it a day.
 
这里有太多的中型公司都在一种心照不宣的默契下运作：掌权者只想再混个10到15年直到退休，然后就撒手不管了。
 
TastyBroccoli4
likes: 7
But as they also make for the huge majority of the constituents, no political party that wants to win elections will make politics against them
 
但由于他们构成了选民的绝大多数，任何想要赢得选举的政党都不会制定违背他们利益的政策。
 
Abject-Investment-42
likes: 13
The entire regulatory legislation is written with this exact underlying assumption: everything new requires testing, proofs, permissions, but just changing nothing relieves you of almost the entire regulatory burden.
 
整个监管法规的编写正是基于这样一个基本假设：任何新事物都需要测试、证明和许可，但只要维持现状，你几乎就可以免除所有的监管负担。
 
UsagiTsukino
likes: 44
I am 43 years old, of this 43 years were 16 years Kohl and 16 years Merkel. With the slogan "nothing will change both won 4 times their elections. We Germans absolutely despise change, and when it is absolutely necessary, we will elect for a short time some social Democrats and greens and punish them afterwards for changing something.
Well, the social democrats crave for this punishment, because when they can win an election, they nominate always their most conservative candidates.
 
我今年43岁，在这43年里，科尔执政了16年，默克尔执政了16年。两人都打着“一切照旧”的口号赢得了四次选举。我们德国人极其厌恶变革，只有在绝对必要时，我们才会短暂地选出社民党和绿党，随后又会因为他们做出的改变而惩罚他们。
好吧，社民党也渴望这种惩罚，因为当他们有机会赢得选举时，他们总是提名党内最保守的候选人。
 
TheGileas
likes: 13
Yeah, but we are lucky. The Merz Slogan is „we will go a few steps back“. Combustion Engine Cars, Gas Power plants and punishing the poor will save Germany.
 
是的，但我们还算幸运。默茨的口号是“我们将倒退几步”。燃油车、天然气发电厂和惩罚穷人将拯救德国。
 
UsagiTsukino
likes: 2
Yeah, that's normally the job of the Seeheimer Kreis, I don't know, why he is doing their job.
 
是啊，这通常是社民党右翼的工作，我不知道他为什么要抢他们的活干。
 
Mis7form
likes: 2
From an outsider point of view - all seems better than AFD
 
从局外人的角度来看——这一切似乎都比德国选择党（AfD）要好。
 
TheGileas
likes: 11
Well, if you have the choice between moldy bread and dogshit the moldy bread is the winner. But it’s still not tasty.
 
好吧，如果你必须在发霉的面包和狗屎之间做出选择，发霉的面包确实是赢家。但这并不代表它好吃。
 
danttf
likes: 15
The saddest part that there’s lots of expectations that it will be as before because “that’s how things are, it was 30 years like this and worked”, while most of current givens comes from previous generations. I hope discovery that future is earned now hits before everything stops working. But most likely not.
 
最可悲的是，人们普遍期望一切会像以前一样，因为“事情就是这样，30年来都是这样而且行之有效”，却忽略了目前的大多数既定条件都来自前几代人的积累。我希望人们能在一切停摆之前意识到“未来是靠挣来的”。但很可能不会。
 
danttf
likes: 14
“Proactive laziness”
 
“主动懒惰”。
 
Tal-Star
likes: 1
Conservativism runs deep. Do nothing, head in the sand. And when that goes wrong, blame an Ausländer.
 
保守主义根深蒂固。什么也不做，像鸵鸟一样把头埋进沙子里。当出现问题时，就怪罪外国人。
 
Birdman915
likes: 46
"Et hätt noch immer jut jejange." - Until it didn't.
 
“目前为止一切都还算顺利。”——直到不再顺利为止。
 
tinydeepvalue
likes: 24
So finance bros ruin everything
 
所以是搞金融的那帮兄弟毁了一切。
 
ItsCalledDayTwa
likes: 11
Quality and community turn into a soulless number squeezing spreadsheet until it's dried up and too late.
And repeat.
 
质量和社区变成了一个没有灵魂的、被榨干数字的电子表格，直到枯竭且为时已晚。
然后周而复始。
 
Imaginary-Corner-653
likes: 400
Scheiße.
 
妈的。
 
MsDUmbridge
likes: 98
Mist.
 
该死。
 
kilroy_wh
likes: 12
Tja
 
哎。
 
MrWFL
likes: 39
And it’s time to stop buying it.
 
是时候停止购买它了。
 
ZYCQ
likes: 258
What's up with major german companies selling to China? We're losing key industries
 
德国主要企业卖给中国到底是怎么回事？我们正在失去关键产业。
 
MoonQube
likes: 266
Haha
Key industries
I see what you did there
 
哈哈
关键（Key）产业
我明白你的双关语了（注：Cherry主要生产键盘Switch/Keys）。
 
GeorgeMcCrate
likes: 71
I‘m no expert but it might have something to do with money.
 
我不是专家，但这可能与钱有关。
 
gedankenlos
likes: 58
Two things:
1) cost of labor and energy are higher leading to products ending up more expensive
2) the Chinese are on par, and sometimes even ahead of EU companies, when it comes to quality and reliability. The days of everything just being a "cheap knock off" copy of Western products are mostly gone
Since we probably don't want to compromise on our social safety nets and labor regulations we can only hope that energy prices will eventually fall and that European customers straregically buy from European companies instead of just the cheapest on the market. One can certainly dream.
 
两件事：
1）劳动力和能源成本较高，导致最终产品更昂贵。
2）在质量和可靠性方面，中国公司与欧盟公司不相上下，有时甚至领先。那些所有东西都只是西方产品的“廉价山寨货”的日子大多已经一去不复返了。
既然我们可能不想在社会安全网和劳动法规上妥协，我们只能希望能源价格最终会下降，并且欧洲客户会战略性地购买欧洲公司的产品，而不是只买市场上最便宜的。人当然是可以做梦的。
 
Chwasst
likes: 50
It's not only energy/labor costs. It's also stagnation. Many many companies in the EU were able to stay afloat by good vibes, hopes and prayers - this no longer works. We have outdated processes, outdated tech and not nearly enough automation. Not to mention lack of collaboration and quite restrictive intellectual property laws.
Truth is Cherry lost to its competitors a long time ago - last time I considered cherry keys was a decade ago I think. Not only because of price - but because of features and quality which atm is simply shit when compared to their Chinese counterparts.
That's what happens when you stop investments and innovation in favor of short term profits.
 
这不仅仅是能源/劳动力成本的问题，也是停滞的问题。欧盟的许多公司过去能够依靠良好的自我感觉、希望和祈祷来维持生计——但这已经行不通了。我们的流程过时，技术过时，自动化程度也远远不够。更不用说缺乏合作和相当严格的知识产权法了。
事实上，Cherry很久以前就输给了竞争对手——我想我上次考虑Cherry轴还是在十年前。不仅是因为价格，还因为功能和质量，目前与中国的同行相比，它们简直就是垃圾。
当你为了短期利润而停止投资和创新时，就会发生这种情况。
 
Kcorp
likes: 27
The last line needs to be emphasised. Maximising profit to please shareholders, while keeping investments and innovation at a bare minimum, ensures getting outperformed on every metric within a couple of decades. The German automobile industry is a prime example.
 
最后一行需要强调。为了取悦股东而最大化利润，同时将投资和创新保持在最低限度，这确保了在几十年内会在各项指标上都被超越。德国汽车工业就是一个典型的例子。
 
Overton_Glazier
likes: 9
Same is happening in the US. Instead, it's vulture capitalism championed by Private Equity firms that pick apart the assets of stagnant companies and then load them with debt and let them go tits up. They make money, but zero value is created and more manufacturing and services are shipped somewhere else.
 
美国也发生同样的情况。不同的是，那是私募股权公司所倡导的“秃鹫资本主义”，它们将停滞不前的公司的资产拆分，然后让它们背上巨额债务，最后任其倒闭。他们赚到了钱，但创造的价值为零，更多的制造业和服务被转移到了其他地方。
 
StatlerSalad
likes: 8
Cherry have been between a rock and a hard place for a while. They're basically a legacy brand, people buy them because they have a known level of quality - if they change up their design they lose their USP. But they're being matched (Chinese replicas are indiscernible from the real thing) and outpaced by cheaper and more advanced offerings.
They're cannibalising what's left of the brand value on a quick cash in before it vanishes. In ten years they'd be a memory anyway, might as well get out now while the getting out's good.
This is happening across Europe and North America. Dying brands that aren't luxury enough to coast on heritage and high prices but aren't cheap enough to compete on price+quality with Asia.
 
一段时间以来，Cherry一直处于进退两难的境地。它们基本上是一个传统品牌，人们购买它们是因为它们具有众所周知的质量水平——如果他们改变设计，就会失去独特的卖点。但它们正在被追平（中国的复制品与真品难以区分），并被更便宜、更先进的产品超越。
他们正在蚕食剩余的品牌价值，以便在消失之前快速套现。无论如何，十年后它们将成为回忆，不如趁现在行情还好的时候赶紧脱身。
这种情况正在整个欧洲和北美发生。那些垂死的品牌不够奢华，无法靠传统和高价生存，但也无法在“价格+质量”上与亚洲竞争。
 
Nearby-Froyo-6127
likes: 32
>The days of everything just being a "cheap knock off" copy of Western products are mostly gone
Thats the one part you are wrong about. They do have an incredible amount of such shit products. But they have 2-3-4 types of quality. Each with their own price, and even their best quality products which are indeed on par with europeans are much cheaper, both because of much cheaper work force and much cheaper energy prices. Did you know that in China the price for electricity had almost NO change for almost 20 years now??? In romania only this year we doubled the prices. And we had big increases of said prices every couple of years before that. people rarely realize how much that impacts industry
 
> 一切都只是西方产品的“廉价山寨货”的日子大多已经一去不复返了
这是你错误的一点。他们确实有数量惊人的此类垃圾产品。但他们有2、3、4种不同档次的质量。每种都有自己的价格，即使是他们质量最好的产品——确实与欧洲产品相当——也要便宜得多，这既是因为劳动力便宜得多，也是因为能源价格便宜得多。你知道吗，在中国，电价已经近20年几乎没有变化了？？？而在罗马尼亚，仅今年我们的价格就翻了一倍。在此之前，每隔几年我们的价格都会大幅上涨。人们很少意识到这对工业的影响有多大。
 
Felloser
likes: 21
Well, Chinese companies are also heavily government subsidized with only a few exceptions.
We could easily deal with such "competition" with the help of tolls but apparently everyone is to scared for some reason
 
嗯，除少数例外，中国企业也得到了政府的大力补贴。
我们本可以在关税的帮助下轻松应对这种“竞争”，但显然每个人都出于某种原因感到害怕。
 
Moldoteck
likes: 3
Lol you think german auto sector isn't heavily govt subsidized? Or ren sector?
 
哈哈，你认为德国汽车行业没有得到政府的大力补贴吗？还是可再生能源行业？
 
Fuzzy-Tennis-2859
likes: 5
As if Western companies arent subsidized.
Its just not as open as in China.
 
说得好像西方公司没有受到补贴一样。
只是不像在中国那么公开罢了。
 
Zbojnicki
likes: 4
For every single industry, somebody pipes up with “but in China they are subsidized”. How do you think it works? Their government found an infinite money tree and pays all companies to run? It has become even lazier trope than “cheap Chinese copy”
 
对于每一个行业，都会有人跳出来说“但在中国他们是有补贴的”。你认为它是如何运作的？他们的政府找到了一棵无限的摇钱树并支付所有公司的运营费用？这已经成为比“廉价的中国山寨货”更无脑的老生常谈了。
 
captain_GalaxyDE
likes: 11
Well, not an infinite money tree. But China does live through an immense growth of their economy. This process generates a lot of money that can be used to subsidise it's industry long enough to kill competition. Then they can ramp up the prices. It's only a matter of time when we don't protect our industry.
 
嗯，不是无限的摇钱树。但中国确实经历了经济的巨大增长。这个过程产生了大量资金，可用于长期补贴其工业以扼杀竞争。然后他们就可以提高价格。如果我们不保护我们的工业，（被击垮）只是时间问题。
 
ankokudaishogun
likes: 1
> Their government found an infinite money tree and pays all companies to run?
they can print money at will and the central bank is under the control of the government so... pretty much.
 
> 他们的政府找到了一棵无限的摇钱树并支付所有公司的运营费用？
他们可以随意印钞票，而中央银行在政府的控制之下……所以差不多就是这样。
 
Zbojnicki
likes: 2
Gee, why no other country figured this out? Just print bazilion coins and make everybody rich. Or subsidise all of the economy and just conquer the world.
 
哎呀，为什么其他国家没有想到这一点？只需印它个无数亿的硬币让每个人都变得富有。或者补贴整个经济并征服世界。
 
ankokudaishogun
likes: 2
Oh, we do absolutely know it's possible. But it has a number of negative side effects that China can deal with by not being a democracy.
 
哦，我们当然知道这是可能的。但它有许多负面副作用，中国可以通过非民主的方式来应对。
 
KiIlerspiel
likes: -12
Exactly, why doesn't Germany subsidize then? They're busy blowing billions on pensions, migrants and climate change projects.
 
正是如此，那么德国为什么不提供补贴呢？他们正忙着在养老金、移民和气候变化项目上挥霍数十亿美元。
 
pope1701
likes: 8
Bullshit, we're blowing our money on pensions.
 
胡说八道，我们把钱都花在养老金上了。
 
twirling-upward
likes: -1
We are doing both.
Actual electricity costs in germany are 5-10% of your bill. The rest is climate change surcharges, taxes, climate change again..
 
我们在两方面都花钱。
德国的实际电力成本只占你账单的5-10%。剩下的就是气候变化附加费、税收，又是气候变化……
 
AlexGaming1111
likes: 5
What's up with everyone yapping about climate change taxes in Germany when Germany barely does jack shit to actually fight climate change and doesn't even tax pollution or CO2 emissions.
They aren't even building solar to a big scale like China does or other European countries and Germany literally shot down nuclear power plants. There's no climate change tax or policy in Germany please sybau.
Oh and let's not forget how fucking hard Germany defends their fossil fuel car manufacturers instead of actually letting them compete and innovate.
 
德国几乎没有采取任何实际行动来应对气候变化，甚至不对污染或二氧化碳排放征税，但每个人都在对德国的气候变化税喋喋不休，这是怎么回事？
他们甚至没有像中国或其他欧洲国家那样大规模建设太阳能，而德国实际上关闭了核电站。德国没有气候变化税或政策，请闭嘴。
哦，我们不要忘记德国是多么拼命地保护他们的化石燃料汽车制造商，而不是真正让他们去竞争和创新。
 
pope1701
likes: 2
Social security and Rente are 20% of my whole Paycheck. Fuck those 5€ electricity tax.
 
社会保障和养老金占我全部薪水的20%。去他妈的那5欧元的电费税。
 
ApetteRiche
likes: 7
I think overall quality has gone down. Found my almost 40 year old fisher price teddy bear, damn music tune was still going strong. In stead of Chinese making good quality products, quality of products has just nose dived over the past decades making it easier to join certain markets.
 
我认为整体质量下降了。找到了我快40年前的费雪（Fisher Price）泰迪熊，该死，它的音乐旋律依然强劲。过去几十年里，与其说是中国制造出了高质量产品，不如说是产品质量急剧下降，从而更容易进入某些市场。
 
zpedroteixeira1
likes: 24
I feel like this one is deserved. They invented something impactful and then decided to rest their asses on it.
 
我觉得这是罪有应得。他们发明了一些有影响力的东西，然后就决定坐吃山空。
 
kkania
likes: 18
Management is probably cashing out. I see this all over the place - German companies that did well in the 90s and 00s have managers coming up on their 70s and they just don’t give a shit, want to get a house in Sicily or Palma or whatever.
 
管理层可能正在套现。我随处可见这样的情况——在90年代和00年代做得很好的德国公司，经理们都已经快70岁了，他们根本不在乎，只想在西西里岛或帕尔马或其他什么地方买房子养老。
 
OkAir8973
likes: 2
See also: a second/third generation of the family has taken over and is either not equipped to handle the company, is apathetic, or has been handed a stagnant company they can't fix.
Alternatively: no one in the family wants to take over and the first gen is disappointed and depressed to the point of just letting the company rot.
This describes 75% of companies in my home region. Thankfully, there are also really energetic and competent second generation owners and owners willing to let someone outside of the family take over, and even young people starting their own businesses, but it's scary seeing the reliable companies that entire towns rely on declining more and more.
 
另请参阅：家族的第二代/第三代接管了公司，但他们要么没有能力经营，要么冷漠，要么接手的是一家他们无法拯救的停滞不前的公司。
或者：家族中没有人愿意接手，第一代人感到失望和沮丧，以至于任由公司腐烂。
这描述了我家乡75%的公司。值得庆幸的是，也有真正精力充沛、有能力的“二代”和愿意让家族以外的人接手的业主，甚至还有年轻人自己创业，但看到整个城镇依赖的可靠公司越来越衰落，这令人恐惧。
 
curiousoryx
likes: 31
My cherry keyboard I bought 3 years ago already reads Made in China
 
我三年前买的Cherry键盘已经写着“中国制造”了。
 
debunkernl
likes: 39
They only made the key switches in Germany, the rest was already outsourced.
 
他们只在德国制造轴体，其余的已经外包了。
 
SilenceBe
likes: 31
It’s always the same story: stop innovating, and you go bust. Patents expire, and if you spend years relying on what you already have without considering that the day will come when you need to come up with something new, you’re inevitably heading for trouble. Then again most suits (in Europe) don't look further than that because they are only interested in the near future profits.
We keep criticizing subsidized industries in China, yet we tend to overlook the fact that EU countries have spent the past decade pouring significant public funds into innovation subsidies as well? What the fuck did they really do with all that money with the exception of giving it out to the shareholders or spending lobbying?
In my country - Belgium - it’s the same story. On paper, we spend slightly less than the U.S. relative to GDP on innovation subsidies for private industry. And that doesn’t even include the billions in tax deductions companies claim under the banner of “research and innovation.” Yet when you look at the actual output, we’re still stuck near the bottom. It just doesn’t make sense.
It’s the same in the 3d printer world with Prusa. They keep whining about the Chinese, but they seem to forget that the Chinese “ate their lunch” because they became completely complacent and stopped innovating. At our company, we don’t mind paying a few hundred euros more for a Prusa, but if another manufacturer offers products that make us more competitive or give us a faster turn-around...
 
故事总是一样的：停止创新，你就会破产。专利会过期，如果你花几年时间依赖现有的东西，而不考虑有一天你需要拿出新东西，那你不可避免地会遇到麻烦。再说一次，大多数（欧洲的）西装革履的管理层不会看得更远，因为他们只对近期的利润感兴趣。
我们一直批评中国的补贴产业，却往往忽视了一个事实：欧盟国家在过去十年里也投入了大量公共资金用于创新补贴？除了把钱分给股东或用于游说之外，他们到底用这些钱做了什么？
在我的国家——比利时——也是同样的故事。从纸面上看，我们在私营企业创新补贴上的支出占GDP的比例略低于美国。这还不包括公司打着“研究与创新”旗号申请的数十亿美元税收减免。然而，当你查看实际产出时，我们仍然处于垫底位置。这根本说不通。
在3D打印机领域，Prusa也是如此。他们一直在抱怨中国人，但他们似乎忘记了中国人“抢了他们的午餐”是因为他们变得完全自满并停止了创新。在我们公司，我们不介意多花几百欧元买Prusa，但如果其他制造商提供的产品能让我们更具竞争力或周转更快……
 
bstronga
likes: 8
I was into the custom keyboard game many years ago. My most premium build was probably worth around 2,5k€. Not trying to flex here just pointing out that in that niche quality matters a lot.
With that said, Cherry didn’t lose to Chinese companies because they were cheaper they lost because the competition was so much better. The speed at which it all happened was incredible. When the patent expired Chinese switches were viewed as budget low to mid quality options. But then everything flipped Cherry switches were seen as low quality and only like old Vintage Blacks were somewhat desirable.
 
很多年前我就入坑客制化键盘了。我最高级的配置可能价值约2500欧元。我不是在这里炫耀，只是想指出在这个小众市场中，质量非常重要。
话虽如此，Cherry输给中国公司并不是因为它们更便宜，而是因为竞争对手的产品要好得多。这一切发生的速度令人难以置信。当专利到期时，中国开关被视为廉价的中低端选择。但后来一切都反转了，Cherry开关被认为质量低劣，只有像旧的黑轴那样才有点价值。
 
Ok_Bicycle_1054
likes: -10
Lol you spent 2500 EUR on a keyboard, your opinion doesn't matter
 
哈哈，你花了2500欧元买键盘，你的意见不重要。
 
bstronga
likes: 2
Of course the enthusiast keyboard market is tiny and I’ve mostly been ridiculed for my hobby. Even though some of my coworkers who mocked the idea at first eventually ended up sharing my enthusiasm. When you type away on keyboard for 8+ hrs a day doing it with one that sounds, looks and feels nice really does make a difference.
Anyway, you’re right that my opinion doesn’t matter much but keyboard enthusiasts noticed ages ago that Cherry stopped caring and this news of Cherry being in trouble and basically giving up isn’t all that surprising.
 
当然，发烧级键盘市场很小，我也经常因为我的爱好而受到嘲笑。尽管我的一些同事一开始嘲笑这个想法，但最终也分享了我的热情。当你每天在键盘上打字超过8小时，使用一个听起来、看起来和感觉都不错的键盘确实会有所不同。
不管怎样，你说得对，我的意见并不重要，但键盘爱好者很久以前就注意到Cherry不再用心了，所以Cherry陷入困境并基本放弃的消息并不那么令人惊讶。
 
Dubbartist
likes: 4
Atleast some production moving to slovakia
 
至少部分生产转移到了斯洛伐克。
 
Dante-Flint
likes: 5
They leaned back and squeezed their success until they were overtaken by the competition once their patent ran out, classic German business behaviour.
 
他们坐享其成，榨干了自己的成功，直到专利到期后被竞争对手超越，这是典型的德国商业行为。
 
bu22dee
likes: 3
I wanted to buy a mouse from them so badly. But there where not available or not suitable. So I went with Logitech.
Similar problem with keyboards.
 
我非常想从他们那里买一只鼠标。但要么没货，要么不合适。所以我选择了罗技。
键盘也有类似问题。
 
BartD_
likes: 2
Logitech has done well for themselves, I wonder where they manufacture.
 
罗技自己做得很好，我想知道他们在哪里生产。
 
Rikki-Tikki-Tavi-12
likes: 2
They had a whole plan to move not just manufacturing but also engineering from Switzerland to China, but kept the engineering in the end. This was in the 90s or 2000s. Don't know where they do it now.
 
他们曾制定了一个完整的计划，不仅将制造，还要将工程技术从瑞士转移到中国，但最终保留了工程技术。那是在90年代或2000年代。不知道他们现在在哪里做。
 
GreedyMcdingus9987
likes: -1
I relaised Germany was fucked when they decided to turn of Nuclear power plants.
 
当德国决定关闭核电站时，我就意识到他们完蛋了。
 
Grouchi_Ad1484
likes: -44
Cant blame them
Social Security contributions are insane Here and have become a Money laundery scheme for the old.
Employees and employers pay 42% of their income to the state. Tendency rising.
 
不能怪他们。
这里的社会保障缴款简直疯狂，已经成为老年人的洗钱计划。
雇员和雇主将其收入的42%上缴给国家。而且这趋势还在上升。