消息人士称,根据美国和平计划,乌克兰预计将放弃部分领土和武器
Exclusive: Ukraine expected to give up land, some arms under US peace plan, sources say
译文简介
美国已向总统弗拉基米尔·泽连斯基发出信号,表示乌克兰必须接受一份由美国起草的结束与俄罗斯战争的框架方案。两名知情人士周三表示,该方案建议基辅放弃领土和部分武器。
正文翻译

The U.S. has signalled to President Volodymyr Zelenskiy that Ukraine must accept a U.S.-drafted frxwork to end the war with Russia that proposes Kyiv giving up territory and some weapons, two people familiar with the matter said on Wednesday.
The sources, who asked not to be identified because of the sensitivity of the matter, said the proposals included cutting the size of Ukraine's armed forces, among other things. Washington wants Kyiv to accept the main points, they said.
Such a plan would represent a major setback for Kyiv as it faces further Russian territorial gains in eastern Ukraine and with Zelenskiy tackling a corruption scandal, which on Wednesday saw parliament dismiss the energy and justice ministers.
The White House declined to comment on the matter. U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio said on X that Washington "will continue to develop a list of potential ideas for ending this war based on input from both sides of this conflict."
"Ending a complex and deadly war such as the one in Ukraine requires an extensive exchange of serious and realistic ideas. And achieving a durable peace will require both sides to agree to difficult but necessary concessions," Rubio said.
A senior Ukrainian official earlier told Reuters that Kyiv had received "signals" about a set of U.S. proposals to end the war that Washington has discussed with Russia. Ukraine has had no role in preparing the proposals, the source said.
美国已向总统弗拉基米尔·泽连斯基发出信号,表示乌克兰必须接受一份由美国起草的结束与俄罗斯战争的框架方案。两名知情人士周三表示,该方案建议基辅放弃领土和部分武器。
消息人士因事态敏感要求匿名,他们说,这些提议包括削减乌克兰武装部队规模等内容。华盛顿希望基辅接受这些核心要点。
这样的计划对基辅而言将是一次重大挫折,因为乌克兰正面临俄罗斯在乌东地区的进一步领土推进,而泽连斯基本人也正处理一场腐败丑闻。就在周三,乌克兰议会罢免了能源部长和司法部长。
白宫对此拒绝置评。美国国务卿马可·鲁比奥在 X 上表示,华盛顿“将继续根据冲突双方的意见,拟定一份可能用于结束这场战争的方案清单。”鲁比奥说:“结束像乌克兰这样复杂而致命的战争,需要广泛交换严肃且现实的想法。而要实现持久和平,双方都必须接受那些艰难却必要的让步。”
一名高级乌克兰官员稍早告诉路透社,基辅已收到关于一套美国提议的“信号”,这些提议是华盛顿与俄罗斯讨论过的结束战争方案。该消息人士称,乌克兰在这些提议的制定过程中并未参与。
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Puzzled_Worth_4287
It’s the same routine every time. Trump vows “devastating” sanctions on Russia — right up until an “important meeting” magically appears and everything gets put on hold because “Putin wants peace.” Then the meeting doesn’t happen, the punishment disappears, and the whole thing resets like clockwork. RINSE AND REPEAT
每次都是同一套流程。特朗普发誓要对俄罗斯实施“毁灭性”制裁——直到某个“重要会晤”神奇地出现,一切都被搁置,因为“普京想要和平”。然后会谈根本不会发生,惩罚也随之消失,整个循环就像钟表一样重新开始。重复再重复。
roctac
It's because Putin has pictures of Trump.
这是因为普京有特朗普的私密照片。
hypespud
Yup it's literally that simple
对,就是这么简单。
rzwitserloot
He doesn't. Or he does; it won't impact Trump, and the pictures aren't relevant. Putin might as well throw em in the trash if they exist.
We're beyond this. If "grab em by the pussy", a conviction for sexual assault, and that signed horny scribble for Epstein doesn't add up to enough, what the fuck does picture is Putin meant to have that someone would actually make a difference?
There's nothing.
Don't make this so complicated.
Trump is a narcissistic child, a wannabe dictator. He likes Putin because he likes Putin. There's no coercion or kompromat required. He is forgetful and parrots the points of the last person he talked to.
That is all the ex
To the americans in the audience: Own this. This happened to your country. Not some outplay by an old enemy who managed to compromise your president with a sleazy picture. Not some foreign intelligence service coup. No - an electoral system that requires the important players in the only 2 parties that there are to guard the gates, because a populist will succeed. The republican party faltered, and the populace was too stupid, or too kneejerky incapable of voting for women, to stop it.
I bet many countries would fail this test. But, the point is, the USA failed this test. Stop looking for excuses or the hope of the nightmare ending the moment those pictures come out. There are no pictures. Or if there are, if they ever come out, nothing. Nothing will change.
他没有照片。或者他有;但那不会影响特朗普,而且那些照片根本不重要。如果真有,普京大可以直接把它们丢进垃圾桶。
我们对付特朗普已经走得比这个所谓私密更远了。如果“特朗普抓女人的下体”、对他一次性侵罪定罪,以及他给爱泼斯坦留下的带着签名涂鸦都不够,那普京到底能有什么所谓的私密照片会真的改变什么?
什么都不会改变。
不要把事情搞得这么复杂。
特朗普就是个自恋的小孩,一个想当独裁者的人。他喜欢普京,就是因为他单纯喜欢普京。不需要普京胁迫他,也不需要有他的黑材料。他非常健忘,只会重复他最后一个听到的人说的话。
就这样。
对在座的美国人说:接受现实吧。这事发生在你们国家。不是某个老对手靠一张淫秽照片策动的精妙布局,不是什么外国情报机关的阴谋。不——这是选举制度的必然结果,它依赖于两党仅有的关键角色来守住底线,因为民粹会得逞。共和党建制派失守了,而民众过于愚蠢,或者因为本能地无法投票给女性,才让这一切发生。
我敢打赌,许多国家也会未能通过这个考验。但重点是,美国没通过这个考验。别再找借口了,也别再幻想某张照片曝光后噩梦就会结束。根本没有照片。或者即使有,哪天曝光了,也一样。什么都不会改变。
Herb-Alpert
Couldn't have said it better. In Trump's head, russia are the good guys. They helped him, they gave money to his business while the evil democrats were trying to sue him and Hurt his fortune.
说得太好了。在特朗普的脑袋里,俄罗斯是好人。他们帮过他,俄罗斯在民主党人试图起诉他、伤害他的财富时给他的生意送钱。
Agonanmous
The sanctions against the Russian energy firms have been quite good actually. The BBC even thought they were effective.
对俄罗斯能源公司的制裁其实挺有效的。BBC 甚至都觉得它们很有效。
Few_Knowledge_2223
It's almost like Putin has the pictures of Trump blowing Bubba.
感觉就像普京有特朗普给 Bubba 口…的照片一样。
TheDamnedScribe
Clinton or the horse?
克林顿还是一匹马?
Rosso__
Or far more likely Trump is just an idiot who takes everyone's words as fact until somebody else comes in to say something, repeating the process.
或者,更有可能的是,特朗普就是个蠢货,谁说什么他都当真,直到下一个人进来说另一套,然后循环再来。
Piccolo-6911
that's what happens when you have a president who is a putin ass kisser and a coward.
这就是你选了一个亲普京、爱拍普京马屁又懦弱的总统会发生的事。
KactusVAXT
When Putin brings a copy of the photo of Trump blowing bubba, Trump does as Putin says
当普京拿出一张特朗普给 Bubba 口……的照片时,特朗普就会照着普京说的做。
Green
Don't know. All I know is that they ask them to be lifted every single day. Heck, even the so-called russian "opposition" is asking that we lift the sanctions.
不知道。我只知道他们每天都在要求解除制裁。甚至所谓的俄罗斯“反对派”也在叫我们解除制裁。
Sammonov
The last EU package sanctioned children's toys with motors and bicycles. The sanctions well is pretty dry.
欧盟最新一轮制裁把带马达的儿童玩具和自行车都列进去了。制裁清单已经没什么可加的了。
Airf0rce
So the first surrender deal didn’t work and they decided to prepare a second one
所以第一份乌克兰投降协议不奏效,他们又准备了第二份。
mneri7
Wasn't it Trump that said "Ukraine will have all their land back and then some more", just a few weeks ago?
The only "painfully obvious thing is that Russia won't win.
Reading the Russian newspaper headlines every morning. It's becoming painfully obvious Russia is on the verge of collapse.
Russian newspapers are saying: "we're in a stagnation", "we're in a recession", "fuel is unaffordable", "inflation is spiraling out of control". Again, not Western media, Russian media.
Russia is so sure to win that they banned anyone from talking freely about the war. War "misinformation" is now punishable with prison. And by "misinformation" Putin means everything against the rhetoric of Russian winning.
If Russia is so winning, why is it illegal to publicly say otherwise? Certainly if they were winning so hard they wouldn't care what you say, right? Or is it that, in fact, Russia spent 60,000 men to conquer 20 square kilometers?
Hey, Russian boy, take your head out of your ass and see the truth: Putin is a war criminal, Putin has condemned Russians to decades of economic stagnation and recession because he wanted to look like Alexander the Great, while in fact he is just a small, small man.
Incompetence runs wild in Russia. A country so big with so many people, so many resources, waging war to a peaceful neighbor, so smaller, so insignificant and still managed to lose 1 million 1 hundred thousand troops.
When in twenty years Russia will be governed by China you'll have only one person to thank: the failed man Putin.
难道不是几周前特朗普还说过“乌克兰会收回全部领土,甚至更多”吗?唯一“痛苦地显而易见”的事情,是俄罗斯不会赢。
每天早上看俄罗斯的报纸头条,非常明显:俄罗斯正濒临崩溃。
俄罗斯报纸都在说:“我们处于停滞”、“我们在衰退”、“燃料负担不起”、“通胀失控”。再次强调——不是西方媒体,是俄罗斯媒体。
俄罗斯要是那么肯定必胜,为什么要禁止任何人自由谈论战争?现在“战争虚假信息”会被判刑。而所谓“虚假”,在普京眼中,就是任何不符合“俄罗斯正在取胜”这个论调的言论。
如果俄罗斯真的赢得如此轻松,那为什么公开说“俄罗斯没有在赢”会变成违法?如果他们真赢得那么痛快,根本不需要在意你说什么,对吧?还是说,事实上俄罗斯花了六万人的代价去占领二十平方公里?
喂,俄罗斯小伙,把你的头从你屁股里拔出来看看真相吧:普京是个战争罪犯。为了让自己看起来像亚历山大大帝,他把俄罗斯推入几十年的经济停滞和衰退;但事实上,他只是个非常、非常渺小的人。
无能在俄罗斯肆虐。一个如此庞大、人口众多、资源丰富的国家,对一个和平的、规模小得多、毫不起眼的邻国发动战争,却仍然损失了一百一十万兵力。
再过二十年,当俄罗斯被中国统治时,你们只有一个人可以感谢:那个失败者普京。
KingKaiserW
Ukraines in a much dire position though, it’d help if every post about it wasn’t mass downvoted but people prefer to stick their heads in the sand and think the country with less resources, less people can outright win a war of attrition.
乌克兰的处境更糟。如果每一篇关于这件事的帖子不是被集体点踩,也许会好一点,但人们更喜欢把头埋在沙子里,觉得那个资源更少、人口更少的国家,能在一场消耗战里硬赢下来。
mneri7
Ukraine doesn't have to win on the battlefield. Ukraine just needs to last long enough for Russia to collapse.
This has been the strategy since the beginning of the war: temporary trade territory for time, and inflict the maximum casualties minimizing the losses. Prioritise your soldiers life at any cost.
Ukraine "is about to collapse" since 2023. Ukraine has had "manpower problems" since 2023. There are 100,000 young Ukrainians in Germany. Reality is, Ukraine is still there, still fighting. Since the beginning of the war, millions of Ukrainians fled, but soldiers are on the ground.
I've had countless discussions here on Reddit about the imminent collapse of Ukraine that never happened. I also had countless discussions about the imminent financial collapse of Russia that hasn't happened yet.
The strategy is clear. Get to a ceasefire, and put European boots on the ground as guarantors. Keep the sanctions on Russia and watch them collapse. Might take 2 years, 5, or 10. They will eventually collapse.
Who can last more wins.
Not to mention that Europe can't afford to lose Ukraine. Having an angry Russia controlling 40 million Ukrainians and willing to send them to death, means war in Europe. If Ukraine was to collapse, European boots might be sent on the ground.
乌克兰不需要在战场上获胜。乌克兰只需要撑到俄罗斯崩溃。
这从战争一开始就是这种战略:空间换取时间,并在尽量减少自身损失的同时,给对方造成最大伤亡。无论付出什么代价,都要优先保护你的士兵生命。
自 2023 年起,乌克兰就被说成“快要崩溃了”。自 2023 年起,就有人说乌克兰“兵力不足”。有 10 万年轻的乌克兰人跑到德国。事实是,乌克兰依然在那里,依然在战斗。战争初期上百万乌克兰人逃离了,但士兵仍然在前线。
我在 Reddit 上无数次讨论过“乌克兰即将崩溃”,但那从未发生。我也无数次讨论过“俄罗斯即将金融崩溃”,但那也还没发生。
乌克兰战略很清楚:达成停火协议,让欧洲的军靴作为担保者驻守乌克兰。继续对俄罗斯实施制裁,然后看着他们崩溃。可能需要 2 年、5 年,或 10 年,但俄罗斯最终会崩溃。
谁能撑得更久,谁就会赢。
更不用说欧洲不能承受乌克兰的失败。让一个愤怒的俄罗斯控制 4000 万乌克兰人,并愿意把他们送上战场,这意味着欧洲的战争。如果乌克兰真的崩溃,欧洲的军靴可能就要踏上战场。
ApostleofV8
— Ukrainian military will reduce by 2.5 times
— No foreign troops in Ukraine
— No foreign diplomatic planes in Ukraine
— Ban on long range weapons
— Ceding territory
Literally a surrender demands with clear path to another invasion
Can't believe there's ppl in the comment section that thinks Ukraine needs to accept the ground work to the 3rd invasion.
— 乌克兰军队将缩减 2.5 倍
— 乌克兰境内不得有外国军队
— 乌克兰境内不得有外国外交航班
— 禁止远程武器
— 割让领土
这简直就是投降条件,而且是为下一次入侵铺好的一条清晰道路。
真不敢相信评论区里还有人觉得乌克兰应该接受俄罗斯第三次入侵的基础条件。
Mr_Gaslight
The only thing missing is Ukraine paying reparations.
唯一缺的就是让乌克兰支付赔款了。
cobaltcolander
I cannot fathom Zelensky accepting these ludicrous, suicidal terms. Whoever compiled them, must have had an ongoingbrain aneurysm.
我无法想象泽连斯基会接受这些荒谬、送死般的条件。写出这些东西的人,大概脑子里长这动脉瘤吧。
LuciusQuintiusCinc
Just want to say ground work for the 4rth invasion 2014 crimea 2015 russian army crossed into eastern ukraine to support the coal miners in donestk and luhansk 2022 full invasion
Remember Trumps first term from 2016 to 2020 he worked tirelessly to end the russian aggression? Yeh me neither.
Trump is a danger to Europe and Hungarian government and Slovak government are traitors to europe.
我只想说,这其实是俄罗斯第四次入侵乌克兰的基础:
2014 年克里米亚
2015 年俄军进入乌东支援顿涅茨克和卢甘斯克的煤矿工人
2022 年全面入侵
还记得特朗普 2016 到 2020 年第一任期时,他为结束俄罗斯侵略而不懈努力吗?嗯,我也不记得。
特朗普对欧洲来说是个危险,而匈牙利政府和斯洛伐克政府是欧洲的叛徒。
mynamejulian
People don’t understand the point in time we’re living through. This is simply a means of disarming Ukraine in preparation for their next invasion. They’re doing this as Russia needs reallocate resources for their upcoming invasion of Poland.
人们不明白我们正身处的时代。这完全是为了让乌克兰解除武装,为下一次入侵做准备。他们这么做是因为俄罗斯需要重新分配资源,为即将到来的对波兰的入侵做准备。
Ewenf
Either that, either asking for inconceivable demands to make Ukraine look like the one's refusing peace.
要么是这样,要么就是提出对方完全无法接受的条件,好让乌克兰看起来像是拒绝和平的那一方。
AlbertoRossonero
It’s a list of demands Russia will deem acceptable to end the conflict via diplomatic means. Ukraine can accept them and limit future losses or gamble that they will hold up and not break during multiple more years of fighting. The current situation on the ground is looking worse for Ukraine with Russian advancing on multiple fronts while Ukraine moves brigades to shore up the Pokrovsk agglomeration. Simply put the leaks in the Ukrainian defenses are getting more numerous and more severe because of the lack of manpower.
这是一份俄罗斯认为可以接受、用于通过外交方式结束冲突的条件清单。乌克兰可以接受它们,以减少未来损失;或者赌一把,赌俄罗斯在未来几年更多的战斗中不会撑不住。
当前的战场局势对乌克兰更糟,俄罗斯在多个方向推进,而乌克兰不得不调动旅级部队去支撑波克罗夫斯克城市群。简而言之,乌克兰防线的漏洞因为兵力不足而变得越来越多、越来越严重。
Maleficent_Break_451
Ok but if they don t accept , conditions will be harder in 6 months
好吧,但如果乌克兰不接受,六个月后的条件会更糟。
SeveralHeron1746
And if they do accepted we will be in the same situation in a few years. Only this time with an army that is 2.5 times smaller
而如果乌克兰接受了,几年后我们还是会处在同样的局面。只是那时乌克兰的军队会小 2.5 倍。
Necessary_Pair_4796
Ukraine can't afford the army they currently have. Who will pay them to keep this current size for the next several years to deter that theoretical future Russian invasion?
We're talking about hundreds of billions of dollars in an open-ended security commitment. I ask you plainly, short of outright theft, how will Europe do that?
This forced military downsizing is giving Europe an out that it's too proud to take. At least under these conditions, we can pretend like we're not bankrupt.
A smaller Ukrainian army is still an army, and then diplomacy can actually take place, reflecting the real power dynamic. 2.5x smaller is what Europe can afford without debt or theft
乌克兰根本负担不起他们目前规模的军队。谁会在接下来的几年里付钱,让他们保持现在这个规模来威慑那个理论上的俄罗斯未来入侵?
我们说的是一场没有期限的安全承诺,金额高达数千亿美元。我直白地问一句:如果不靠赤裸裸的抢钱,欧洲要怎么做到这一点?
这场被迫的军队缩编,给了欧洲一个自己太骄傲而不愿公开接受的台阶下。至少在这些条件下,我们还能假装自己没破产。
一个更小的乌克兰军队依然是军队,然后外交才真的能进行,反映真正的力量格局。乌克兰军队缩小 2.5 倍,是欧洲在不负债或不偷窃的情况下唯一负担得起的。
Necessary_Pair_4796
The European position is already weak. Europe cannot afford this war. There isn't enough money. There aren't enough Ukrainian bodies. Dragging this out will only result in a worse deal for Ukraine and a worse deal for Europe, not to mention all of the death and suffering in the meantime.
欧洲的立场已经很弱了。欧洲负担不起这场战争。钱不够,乌克兰士兵也不够。继续拖下去只会让乌克兰和欧洲谈到更糟的协议,更别提这期间所有的死亡与痛苦。
DutyProfessional9689
If Europe is unable to afford an army capable of defending against Russia then we have to accept that western Capitalism has failed. Luckily, you are completely wrong so we don't have to accept that at all.
如果欧洲真的负担不起一支能对抗俄罗斯的军队,那我们就只能承认西方资本主义失败了。幸好你完全错了,所以我们完全不必接受这种说法。
SeveralHeron1746
We can keep them afloat. If you call seizing the russian assets outright theft. At this point i dont really care, maybe dont do a illegal invasion then. I know what the arguments on the assests are. Somebody smarter then me can pull the trigger on that
stop pretending. The russians cant hold out for years. we just have to hold on for 2 years tops, and russia will sink back towards the dephts that they came
我们能让乌克兰撑下去。如果你把没收俄罗斯资产称为赤裸裸的偷窃的话。这个时候我真的不在乎这些,也许别先搞非法入侵就不会有这事。我知道有关资产的争论,让比我聪明的人去按下那个扳机吧。
别再装了。俄罗斯撑不了几年。我们只需要撑顶多两年,俄罗斯就会重新沉回它来的那个深渊里。
gooseneck123456
have you been following the maps this year? russia is going to get the land they seek in ukraine regardless. it’s just a question of how many people are going to die on both sides to get it.
in Zaporizhzhia ukraines forces are in a full rout. ukraine may have just abandoned siversk. pokrovsk just fell and myrnohrad is encircled. the whole northern conglomeration of cities in donetsk is going to be outflanked and captured in probably less than a year. everyone saying this is a bad deal that ukraine shouldn’t accept has no idea what the actual ground conditions looks like. it’s a bad deal that ukraine better take before it gets even worse going forward
你今年有在看前线地图吗?俄罗斯无论如何都会拿到他们想要的乌克兰土地。现在只是看双方还要死多少人才能拿到这些土地。
在扎波罗热,乌军正在全面溃退。乌克兰可能刚刚放弃了谢韦尔斯克。波克罗夫斯克刚刚陷落,米尔诺赫拉德被包围。顿涅茨克北部整个城市群将在不到一年内被迂回包抄并占领。那些说这协议“太糟不能接受”的人根本不知道地面情况是什么样的。这确实是个糟糕的协议,但乌克兰最好在未来更糟之前赶快接受。
M8753
Aka "just surrender and let russia completely take over".
Why why why is Trump so subservient to putin? I don't understand. Trump's acting like a loser.
这协议也就是“乌克兰直接投降,让俄罗斯彻底接管”。
为什么、为什么、为什么特朗普对普京这么顺从?我真的不懂。特朗普的表现就像个失败者。
DeRpY_CUCUMBER
I'll give you the real reason why, but you're not going to like it. Because China. Because Russia has been reduced to a nothing burger. A complete non threat to US, and a minor annoyance to western Europe.
There is no point in pushing Russia into the hands of China this hard. A China and Russian alliance is unbeatable. So, the US cares more about breaking up that alliance than staying in the Ukraine forever war.
Lastly, the more and more Europe decouples itself from the US which it is in the process of doing now, the more and more likely a US Russia alliance is inevitable.
NATO is a cold war relic that once the Soviet unx collapsed, there was no real need for the US to be in the alliance.
The only reason to stay was that our companies were making good money in Europe and it was very profitable. That is now changing with the European digital and military independence drive. So the US will look to reduce its footprint in the continent as it becomes a drag on recourses for no payoff, to make room for the future, Asia.
I believe it is more than just Trump who want a Russian/US reset. Even Clinton was pushing this decades ago. She just went about it in the wrong way.
我告诉你真正的原因,但你肯定不会喜欢:因为中国。因为俄罗斯已经被削成了一块毫无意义的垃圾汉堡——对美国毫无威胁,对西欧也只是个小麻烦。
没必要把俄罗斯这么狠地推进中国怀里。中俄联盟是不可战胜的。所以,美国比起无止境地待在乌克兰,更在乎拆散中俄这个联盟。
最后,欧洲越是与美国脱钩(这正在发生),美俄联盟就越有可能成为必然。
北约是冷战遗物,当苏联解体后,美国其实没什么真正理由继续在这个联盟里。
唯一留下来的理由,是我们的公司在欧洲赚了很多钱,非常有利可图。但随着欧洲推进数字与军事独立,这点正在改变。所以美国会寻求减少在欧洲的存在,因为那成了消耗资源却无回报的累赘,从而为未来的重点——亚洲——腾出空间。
我认为想与俄罗斯和美国重启关系的不只是特朗普。甚至希拉里几十年前就推动过这一点。她只是用错了方法。
fzammetti
Wait... Russia is absolutely no threat to the U.S. at all... but Russia PLUS China is UNBEATABLE?!
You know, I only have a few thousand in my bank account... but combined, me and Bill Gates have $103 billion dollars!
I'll just ignore the rest of your Russian propaganda-induced fever dream.
等等……俄罗斯对美国“完全没有威胁”……但俄罗斯加中国却“不可战胜”?!
你知道,我银行里只有几千块……但如果算上我和比尔·盖茨,我们一起就有 1030 亿美元!
我就忽略你剩下的那些被俄罗斯宣传洗出来的发烧妄想吧。