国外热议：中国的J-20战斗机与同类战机相比表现如何？

RC.
Others in the class?

同级别的还有其他飞机吗？

There are no others in the J-20 class at all. This fighter with its humoungous internal fuel capacity of 25000 lbs[1] is designed for one single purpose only. It is multi-role in name only.

根本不存在与歼-20同级别的飞机。这款战斗机拥有高达25000磅的巨大内部燃油容量，其设计仅为了单一目的。它只是名义上的多用途战机。

It’s main mission is to evade American and NATO aerial command radars/planes, AWACS/AWECS and other aerial assets, as well as surface assets like the combined might of Aegis combat system from multiple destroyers(Arleigh Burke class), cruisers (Ticonderoga class) with its minimized RCS, primarily from the frontal aspect and destroy the aerial fuel tanks[2] flying far away from Mainland China based weapon systems.

它的主要任务是利用其最小的雷达反射截面，主要是前向，来规避美国和北约的空中指挥雷达/飞机、预警机及其他空中资产，以及像多艘驱逐舰、巡洋舰上的宙斯盾战斗系统这样的水面资产联合力量，并摧毁那些远离中国大陆武器系统作战范围的空中加油机。

The J-20 doesn’t have a all face stealth feature as the F-22 Raptor, and it needs to hide its engine area.

歼-20并不像F-22“猛禽”那样具备全向隐身特性，因此必须特别遮蔽发动机区域。


The F-22 has stealthy features in-built in the engines (radar wise, not heat wise - although there is a high possibility that heat distribution in the engines is the very best of any aircraft). It’s engines are hidden comfortably by the control surfaces and the exhaust nozzles not being circular help a lot too.

F-22在发动机部分就内置了隐身设计（指雷达隐身，而非红外热信号——尽管其发动机的热量分布很可能是所有战机中最优秀的）。它的发动机被机体的操控面很好地遮挡，而且非圆形的尾喷口也进一步增强了隐身效果。


The J-20 engines are underpowered to enter a dogfight with the F-22 which is the only fully operational fifth generation all weather stealth air superiority and supremacy fighter. The F-119 on the F-22 are amazing. They generate 35000 lbs of thrust with fewer moving parts than the engines of F-16 and F-15. This makes maintenance easier to be done on the plane, which is notorious for being high maintenance.[4]

歼-20的发动机动力不足，无法与F-22进行狗斗。F-22上的F-119发动机非常惊人，它们能产生35000磅的推力，且活动部件比F-16和F-15的发动机更少。

They produce about 31000 lbs, and are notoriously fuel hungry. The F119 while being stealthy, more powerful is more efficient. It can go further on lesser. The WS-10 does lesser on more. The J-20 with its lesser thrust of about 8000 lbs lacks maneuverability that the 70000 lbs on F-22 provide. The F-22 has a higher wing loading of 380kg/sqm, while the J-20 has a wing loading of 340kg/sqm. And yet the F-22 is more maneuverable than the J-20, primarily because that 8000 lbs of thrust differential makes a difference.

它们能产生约31000磅推力，但出了名的耗油。F119发动机在具备隐身性和更强动力的同时，效率更高。WS-10发动机则事倍功半。歼-20因推力大约少8000磅而缺乏F-22那70000磅推力所提供的机动性。

Canards

鸭翼

You can make a canard plane extremely stealthy, like the McDonnell Douglas X-36, but a similarly sized plane without the canards is going to be more stealthy than the canarded plane. Also, on the J-20 the wingloading is lesser, because canards also generate some lift in flight. And the J-20 needs canards because its engines suck as compared the the F119 and F135.

你可以制造出像麦道X-36那样极具隐身性的鸭翼飞机，但同样尺寸的无鸭翼飞机总会比有鸭翼的飞机更隐身。此外，歼-20的翼载较低，因为鸭翼在飞行中也产生一些升力。歼-20需要鸭翼是因为其发动机与F119和F135相比性能不佳。

The J-20 is the perfect plane for its mission, which is to force US and allies to dedicate fighter for protection for aerial refueling assets, and thus the actual fight has lesser planes on the American side. Or if the war planners are monumental idiots, and they didn’t assign protection, to blow up those fuel assets out of the sky, and starve the F-35 and F-22 jets of fuel. This has also put the air-fight on a somewhat equal footing (The American side still has the massive advantage of 100+ F-22s and some F-35s available.)

歼-20非常适合它的作战使命——迫使美国及其盟友不得不专门派出战斗机去保护空中加油机等后勤空中资产，从而让真正投入空战的美军战机数量减少。或者，如果作战规划人员愚蠢到没有安排护航，那么歼-20就可以直接把这些加油机从空中炸掉，让F-35和F-22陷入“断油”状态。这也使得空战态势在某种程度上趋于平衡（虽然美方仍然拥有100多架F-22以及部分F-35，优势依然巨大）。

But this plane has actually decreased the risk of an armed confrontation until F-35 is fielded in some respectable numbers by the USN, and Japanese and South Korean navies.

但这款飞机实际上降低了武装冲突的风险，直到美国海军、日本和韩国海军装备相当数量的F-35为止。

Alex Han
Hi Ronak, can i please ask what is your assessment of the J-20 if it is later equipped with the WS-15 engine? which has a reputed thrust of 36000 lbs.

你好 Ronak，请问如果歼-20后续装备了据称推力达36000磅的WS-15发动机，你对其评估如何？

Matthew Ramada
The J-20 has gotten flak forever because of the supposed hit to overall stealth that canards cost to the airfrx. As you say, it’s possible to make a stealthy canard plane. Moreover, what most critics seemingly fail to notice, is that although the J-20 takes a hit to RCS for having additional flight control surfaces, it at the same time has no stabilators whatsoever. In terms of overall points of comprise to be made for stealth in the airfrx, (other than the engines,) the J-20 is basically just an F-22 with the main wings pushed all the way back and the stabilators stuck on the front, except that the J-20 can get away with canards that are much smaller than the F-22’s stabilators, because their offset from the large control surfaces on the main wing (I’m not sure what to call them… stabaileverons?… according to wiki I guess they can just be called “tailerons,”) is much further than it is between the F-22’s aileron/flaps and stabilators, giving the J-20 a greater moment of angular force from the canards than the F-22 gets from the stabilators. Hence more maneuverability out of a smaller surface (and one which provides additional lift no less.)

J-20因其采用的鸭翼对机身隐身性能造成的潜在影响而长期备受争议。正如你所说，设计具备隐身能力的鸭翼战机确实可行。但多数批评者似乎忽略了一个关键点：虽然J-20因增加操纵面而牺牲了部分雷达反射截面积（RCS），但它完全取消了水平尾翼。从机身隐身设计的整体妥协点来看（除发动机外），J-20本质上就像是将F-22的主翼整体后移，并把水平尾翼移至机首——不同的是，J-20的鸭翼尺寸远小于F-22的水平尾翼，这是因为其鸭翼与主翼大型操纵面（根据维基百科可称为“尾翼副翼”）的间距，远大于F-22副翼/襟翼与水平尾翼的间距。这种布局使J-20能通过更小的翼面获得比F-22水平尾翼更强的角力矩，从而以更小翼面实现更优机动性（更何况鸭翼还能提供额外升力）。

RC.
I’m sorry, the J-20 has vertical stabilizers.

抱歉，歼-20有垂直尾翼。

The primary reason the stabilators don’t move on the J-20 is due to a large portion of the very hot engine ass or exhaust nozzle being exposed, which can make easy work for a heat seeking missile with optical sensors.

歼-20的全动尾翼不移动的主要原因是因为其大部分高温发动机尾部或排气喷口暴露在外，这很容易被带有光学传感器的热追踪导弹锁定。

The maneuverability issue was caused by using inferior Russian engines in the first few LRIP models. The F-22 probably uses differential thrust programmed into the control laws, in order to achieve more maneuverability. Canards are extra weight. You saved on actuators by not having moving horizontal stabilators, you have now two surfaces.

机动性问题是由最初几架低速初始生产型号使用劣质俄罗斯发动机引起的。F-22可能在控制律中编程了差动推力以实现更高机动性。鸭翼是额外的重量。你通过没有可动的水平尾翼省下了作动器，但现在你有了两个控制面。

Ryan Fernandez
You neglected to talk about the engine designed for it isn't operational and likely won't be for awhile at least. The current power plant is underpowered at best. Iirc the engine is use now is effectively hand made.

你忽略了为其设计的发动机尚未投入使用，并且至少短期内很可能也不会投入使用的讨论。目前的动力装置往好里说也是动力不足。我记得现在使用的发动机实际上是手工制造的。

Autistic Propaganda Bot
The J-20 is the perfect plane for its mission

歼-20是非常适合其作战使命的完美飞机

This would have been true 10 years ago, but today I believe the best plane for the J-20’s intended role is a stealth drone, ideally a flying wing design.

这在10年前可能是真的，但今天我认为执行歼-20预定任务的最佳飞机是隐身无人机，理想情况下是飞翼设计。

As you correctly described, the J-20 is not meant to dogfight other stealth jets like the F-22 or even F-35. It’s meant to fly very, very far and hunt down high value targets protected by powerful radars.

正如你正确描述的那样，歼-20并非用于与F-22甚至F-35等其他隐身喷气机进行狗斗。它的目的是飞得非常非常远，猎杀由强大雷达保护的高价值目标。

A drone is always going to outperform a manned jet in that role. Moreover, given the hugely risky sortie type, a drone is the natural choice.

在执行此类任务时，无人机始终比有人驾驶战机更具优势。加之考虑到任务类型的高风险性，采用无人机实属必然选择。

RC.
A drone operated by an operator has a significant between the decision to fire and actual firing. Ditto for information.

由操作员操作的无人机在决定开火和实际开火之间存在显著的延迟。信息传递也是如此。

Also, I don't think the pla trusts the artificial intelligence or machine learning available today to handover the decision to when to fire and what to kill.

另外，我认为解放军并不信任当今可用的人工智能或机器学习来交出何时开火以及杀伤什么目标的决定权。

Timothy Feinstein
Agreed and I think Chinese procurement is heading in that direction. They're just a tech generation short of that goal right now.. I would imagine they see a couple of benefits with doing the J-20 right now - you get a generation of stealth tech to build & fly, which obviously helps make the next one much better. And even if it's not ideal, like you said, that narrow frontal cone of stealth-iness still puts America on the back foot watching out for incoming J-20s. Any imaginable conflict would have the South China Sea as a chessboard, and small differences in posture could have huge repercussions.

同意，而且我认为中国的采购正在朝着那个方向前进。他们目前只是离那个目标还差一代技术。我想他们现在推进歼-20项目看到了几个好处——你获得了一代可以建造和飞行的隐身技术，这显然有助于让下一代更好。而且即使它不理想，如你所说，那狭窄的前向隐身锥角仍然会让美国在提防歼-20来袭时处于被动。任何可以想象的冲突都会以南海为棋盘，姿态上的微小差异都可能产生巨大的反响。

Austin Alexander
J-20 is an aircraft which is untested in combat with a design that is questionable. It may be good at it’s role but we aren’t really sure China can operate it in any roles since it hasn’t seen any theatre action. Communism is good at one thing - propaganda - everything which is good isn’t talked about - everything that is bad is hyped up as the best thing since sliced bread.

歼-20是一款未经战斗检验、设计存疑的飞机。它可能擅长其预定角色，但由于它未曾经历任何战区行动，我们并不真正确定中国能否在任何角色中操作它。共产主义擅长一件事——宣传——所有好的东西都不谈论——所有坏的东西都被吹捧成天上有地下无。

Vipul Verma
J-20 is a failed project lacking conviction in international aviation community. A country that could not develop engine on its own despite reverse engineering Russian technology and having attained F-22 & F-35 blueprints through spying, but boasts of developing 5th gen fighter and that also equivalent to F-22s needs to be ridiculed. This is just like Indians claiming LCA project success despite not being able to develop own jet engine in 2 decades. The result is Indians are importing Rafeals from France and looking further to buy more fighter jets. Similarly Chinese technology development is lackadaisical and hence they are looking to acquire SU-57s from Russia in future.

歼-20是一个失败的项目，在国际航空界缺乏信服力。一个尽管逆向工程了俄罗斯技术并通过间谍活动获得了F-22和F-35蓝图，却仍无法自主研制发动机，还吹嘘开发了第五代战斗机且堪比F-22的国家，需要被嘲笑。

It's Just Tom
Any reference for your claims? I’d love to read those.

你的说法有参考来源吗？我很想读一读。

Magazines like National Defense seem to think it’s a credible threat to US aerial assets, and its evolving iterations seem to be continually closing the gap between it and its US rivals.

像《国家防务》这样的杂志似乎认为它对美国空中资产是一个可信的威胁，并且其不断发展的型号似乎正在不断缩小与其美国对手的差距。

John Lee
Actually as of 2023, China has developed the engines and is now producing j-20 in mass production numbers using Chinese engines, with most likely over 150+ j20 already in the Chinese air force. China has better avionics and electronics an ai than Russia already on its flanker variants, and j-20 also I assume. Russia itself has no su-57 or at least not more than I can count on my hand.

实际上，截至2023年，中国已经研制出发动机，并正在使用中国发动机大规模生产歼-20，中国空军中很可能已有超过150架歼-20。中国在其侧卫系列改型上已经拥有比俄罗斯更好的航空电子、电子设备和人工智能，歼-20我认为也是如此。俄罗斯自己也没有多少架苏-57，或者至少数量不多。

China is not going to buy such a plane and have more su-57 than Russia does(if China buys like 24, I doubt Russia will sell China just 12 or less so China can reverse engineer or check out the specs or engine etc).

中国不会去购买这种飞机，然后拥有的苏-57数量比俄罗斯还多。

This is not comparable with Indian lca or even Tejas. J-20 is basically all domestic design and sourced equipment, and China already has more of them than india has tejas or lca which as you said doesn't even use indian engines, missiles, radars or anything else important. There is no comparison.

这与印度的LCA甚至"光辉"战机没有可比性。歼-20基本上是全自主设计和国产设备，而且中国的歼-20数量已经超过印度的"光辉"或LCA，正如你所说，后者甚至不使用印度自己的发动机、导弹、雷达或任何其他重要部件。毫无可比性。

J-20 a failed project? Hilarious. Even Americans who had their first encounter with J-20 vs f35 have said that it flies well and is a good plane.. if not great plane(even if they won't outright say it). All other expert have said it is good/decent at the worst. No one has said it is bad or a failed project. Even 4 years ago in 2019. It was only a matter of time before they put in Chinese engines, and they have in less than 4 years.

歼-20是失败的项目？可笑。即使是首次遭遇歼-20与F-35对抗的美国人也说过它飞行性能良好，是款不错的飞机……即使不算伟大。所有其他专家都说过它至少是良好/体面的。没人说它糟糕或是个失败的项目。甚至在4年前的2019年就是这样。换装中国发动机只是时间问题，而他们在不到4年的时间里就做到了。

Connor Dalton
Depends on how how you look at it.

这取决于你如何看待它。

As an air to air platform, most indicators point towards it eventually being decent. It’s canard delta design definitely is good for agility ( as it is a highly maneuverable design), though it currently lacks a proper engine, which holds it well back. Once it has it, it is likely to be a good air to air competitor.

作为一个空对空平台，大多数指标表明它最终会是不错的。它的鸭式三角翼设计肯定有利于敏捷性，尽管它目前缺乏合适的发动机，这严重制约了它。一旦有了合适的发动机，它很可能成为一个良好的空对空竞争者。

It’s canard are not necessarily ideal for stealth, but they certainly are not bad either. It’s a front aspect focused stealth design, but then again, so are most stealth jet’s.

它的鸭翼对隐身来说未必理想，但也肯定不差。它是一个注重前向隐身的的设计，但话说回来，大多数隐身喷气机都是如此。

It’s internal fuel capacity is definitely the best of all stealth fighters currently. Part of it’s intended usage is to carry missiles for attacking various high value target aircraft, such as tankers, AWAC, etc, and it’s high fuel capacity lends itself to this role. This is also true of the Su-57, though it can be argued that the Su-57 has the better weapons for the role.

它的内部燃油容量绝对是目前所有隐身战斗机中最好的。其预定用途的一部分是携带导弹攻击各种高价值目标飞机，如加油机、预警机等，其高燃油容量非常适合这一角色。苏-57也是如此，不过可以争论说苏-57拥有更适合该角色的武器。

It’s weaponry setup is nearly identical to that of the Su-57. Same armament configuration as the F-22, but by sacrificing two internal hard points in the main bays, and adding about a meter to the total length, it gains the ability to house a wide array of weapons ( the Su-57 is the same in this regard). Actually, the J-20 also likely has the same cannon as the Su-57.

其武器配置与苏-57几乎相同。与F-22相同的武器配置，但通过牺牲主弹舱的两个内部挂点，并增加约一米的总长度，它获得了容纳多种武器的能力。实际上，歼-20很可能也拥有与苏-57相同的机炮。

Sensors would appear to be decent. They are apparently based off those of the F-35, and reportedly have a lot of similar features, but it’s unclear what the sensor quality is. Still, it would appear to be at least decent.

传感器似乎不错。它们显然是基于F-35的传感器，并且据报道有很多类似特性，但传感器质量如何尚不清楚。不过，它看起来至少是体面的。

Overall, it’s decent across the board, not really standing out in any category except for flight range.

总体而言，它在各项性能上表现均衡，除续航里程外并无特别突出的领域。

David Hapka
Sensors “based off an F-35.”

传感器"基于F-35"。

A polite way to say stolen from F-35 blueprints.

这是一种委婉的说法，意指从F-35蓝图中窃取而来。

The C, while not to be underestimated, do rely heavily on corporate espionage. Domestically, and most certainly with Western defense contractors.

C，虽然不可低估，但确实严重依赖企业间谍活动。在国内是如此，对西方国防承包商则更是如此。

So far, it would seem, China has difficulty with reproducing the most sensitive and advanced components. At best, they do a hybrid of domestic and foreign design, mainly US and Russian.

到目前为止，中国似乎在复制最敏感和最先进的组件方面存在困难。往好里说，他们做的是国内外设计的混合体，主要是美国和俄罗斯的。

Swee Tie Ip
I don’t understand at all, if small carnard affect the stealthness of the plane, how about the bigger wings, do they affect the stealthness of the plane?

我完全不理解，如果小的鸭翼影响飞机的隐身性，那么更大的机翼呢，它们不影响飞机的隐身性吗？

John Hall
Way overestimated. Even though most of the technology was stolen, making it work is a different story. Hoe can the Chinese come up with these amazing speed and range specifications when they don't have an engine that comes close and it may be many years before they ever produce a reliable engine. It's also very large to hold enough fuel to have any kind of range with the engines they have now and the J20 will never reach those speeds it reports to have. We have no idea what it can do with its weapons systems and radar/ sensors since it's never been tested in combat Against other aircraft. My guess is it's hopelessly at a disadvantage against the F22 or F35. I'd say it probably wouldn't survive against an upxed F15 and maybe the F16 block 70 since China was so upset with the US selling Taiwan the F16 block 70. The Mighty Dragon might only be a miserable buzzard.

被严重高估了。即使大部分技术是偷来的，使其发挥作用则是另一回事。中国怎么可能提出那些惊人的速度和航程指标，当他们根本没有接近水平的发动机，而且可能还需要很多年才能生产出可靠的发动机。它体型很大以容纳足够的燃油，以便用现在的发动机获得任何可观的航程，而且歼-20永远达不到它宣称拥有的速度。我们不知道它的武器系统和雷达/传感器能做什么，因为它从未在与其他飞机的战斗中进行过测试。我猜它与F22或F35相比处于绝望的劣势。我认为它可能无法在升级版F15甚至F16 block 70面前幸存，因为中国对美国售台F16 block 70非常不满。"威龙"可能只是一只可怜的黑秃鹫。

Mauricio Wiesner
It depends on the mission of design obxtives.

这取决于其任务或设计目标。

Depending on that it is either great or lackluster / sucks.

据此，它要么很棒，要么平庸/很差劲。

I will contradict the majority here and say is sucks on this mission (I quote from other answers):

我将与这里的大多数人意见相左，并认为它在这个任务上很差劲：

“It’s main mission is to evade American and NATO aerial command radars/planes, AWACS/AWECS and other aerial assets, as well as surface assets like the combined might of Aegis combat system from multiple destroyers(Arleigh Burke class), cruisers (Ticonderoga class) with its minimized RCS, primarily from the frontal aspect and destroy the aerial fuel tanks”

"它的主要任务是利用其最小的雷达反射截面，主要是前向，来规避美国和北约的空中指挥雷达/飞机、预警机及其他空中资产，以及像多艘驱逐舰（阿利·伯克级）、巡洋舰（提康德罗加级）上的宙斯盾战斗系统这样的水面资产联合力量，并摧毁空中加油机"

Why does it suck at destroying tankers?

为什么它摧毁加油机的能力很差？

Simple: For an J-20 to destroy tankers it needs to get into missile range, and that range is SHORTER than the range of the fighters the tanker is refueling.

简单来说：对于歼-20来说，要摧毁加油机，它需要进入导弹射程，而这个射程比加油机正在加油的战斗机的探测/作战范围要短。

Simpler: Let’s say the tanker with 200,000 pounds of fuel accompanies a group of 10 F-35A’s. The F-35’s have a range of 800+ miles and the PL-15 missiles on the J-20 have a range of 150 miles. How will the J-20’s not be detected by forward flying / patrolling F-35A’s before they can get close enough to fire at the tanker?

更简单地说：假设一架载有20万磅燃油的加油机伴随一个由10架F-35A组成的机群。F-35的探测/作战范围超过800英里，而歼-20上的PL-15导弹射程为150英里。歼-20如何在能够接近到足以向加油机开火之前，不被前方飞行/巡逻的F-35A发现？

The J-20’s need to get within 150 miles of the tanker to shoot their missiles. And in doing so will be in range of the F-35’s superior radar a good 500 miles before that happens.

歼-20需要进入距离加油机150英里以内才能发射导弹。而在此过程中，在距离发生交火还有足足500英里时，它们就会进入F-35优越雷达的探测范围。

If up to me I’d use the tanker as bait and knock the J-20’s out.

如果由我决定，我会用加油机作为诱饵，敲掉歼-20。

And If they manage, how will the J-20’s fare after they launch and the F-35A’s come after them?

如果它们成功了，在发射导弹后，F-35A前来追击时，歼-20的处境会如何？

It is either impossible for the J-20’s to do this, or a poor bet at a suicide mission.

这对歼-20来说要么是不可能的任务，要么就是一场胜算很小的自杀任务。

Same goes for AWACS that are no longer needed by F-35 squadrons.

对于F-35中队不再需要的预警机也是如此。

On the other hand it is great at being the first indigenous Chinese stealth fighter with the capacity to engage non-stealthy fighters with an advantage and a good intelligence gathering platform. The fact it can operate from home bases close the the SCS and without the need for tankers is an important logistical advantage.

另一方面，它作为中国首款国产隐身战斗机非常出色，有能力优势地与非隐身战斗机交战，并且是一个良好的情报收集平台。它可以从靠近南海的本土基地作战，且不需要加油机，这是一个重要的后勤优势。

But if compared to the F-22 or F-35, from what little is known of speculated, it is not as good, only better in range. But inferior in all other aspects.

但如果与F-22或F-35相比，根据已知的少量推测，它并不如后者，仅在航程上更优。但在所有其他方面都处于劣势。