欧洲在芯片大战中竞争是否为时已晚？

@tedwong7037
Europe should focus on designing the most advantage bottle cap
 
欧洲应该专注于设计最有优势的瓶盖。
 
@xieccs
Europe’s problem is its own government structure, you are one government and you are also some 30 governments of member countries. Europe  is a mess in decision making. US is driven by big multinational companies, whereas China has authoritarian government and the decision making is very efficient. So the root is Europe governing structure, the structure killed various countries’ indigenous entrepreneurship. That’s why Europe falls behind the US and China
 
欧洲的问题在于它自己的政府结构，你既是一个政府，同时又是30个成员国的集合体。欧洲在决策上是一团糟。美国由大型跨国公司主导，而中国有权威政府，决策效率非常高。所以问题的根本在于欧洲的治理结构，这种结构扼杀了各国的本土创业精神。也正因为如此，欧洲落后于美国和中国。
 
@pappelg2639
Yes. But, new world - new possibilities. 1. Do not focus on EU  - we need supplemental orgs 2. Build transnational organ for investment in key industries with new key members EU/non EU. 3. Make new defense org. "coalition of the willing" into new European Nato. Split into regions, like nordic which is already working together. Expand coop. 3. transform EU slowly into what will be future EU but remember that Trump would not be able to do in EU today what he did in the USA. With a United States of Europe, we can one day have our own Trump. Lets cherich our differences but work better together.
 
是的。但，新的世界——新的可能性。
不要只关注欧盟——我们需要补充性的组织。
建立跨国投资关键产业的组织，加入新的重要成员，欧盟/非欧盟国家。
建立新的防务组织，将“愿意的联盟”发展成新的欧洲北约。可以按地区划分，比如北欧已经在合作。扩大合作。
慢慢转变欧盟，变成未来的欧盟，但要记住，特朗普今天如果在欧盟做的事，是做不到的。在一个统一的欧洲，我们有一天也许会有自己的特朗普。让我们珍惜我们的差异，但更好地一起合作。
 
@whatyousaid1375
Main reason is Europe needs to get its daddy’s permission first on everything. Just look at Dutch has to take an order to rob a Chinese company speaks a lot itself.
 
主要原因是欧洲在所有事情上都需要先得到“爸爸”的许可。看看荷兰为了抢夺一家中国公司而必须接受命令，这本身就说明了很多问题。
 
@nulnoh219
The problem isn't they are 30 different countries with 30 different governments. The problem is these 30 countries tripping over themselves, squabbling about every little problem.
 
问题不在于他们是30个不同的国家，有30个不同的政府。问题在于这30个国家互相绊倒，争论每一个小问题。
 
@TheMartino999
You are absolutely right. However, I am sure the reasons which you have  already mentioned are only the tip of the iceberg
 
你完全正确。然而，我确信你已经提到的原因只是冰山一角。
 
@trogdortpennypacker6160
Europe is honestly the neo-Soviet unx, bureaucratic and slow, and behind the US and Asia in technology.
 
欧洲诚实地说就像新苏联，官僚主义严重，行动缓慢，在技术上落后于美国和亚洲。
 
@PengZhang-1
I'm from China, and I don't think it's too late for Europe to develop chips. They can do it by robbery, such as seizure of Nexpera.
 
我来自中国，我认为欧洲开发芯片还不算太晚。他们可以通过抢夺，比如夺取Nexpera来实现。
 
@MrZerged
Europe is bloody cooked. If they were going to do something they would have already. Instead we have this made for TV drivel where they say are going to do something, not spend billions and sit around and procure from the world but no Euro first.
Meanwhile their talent is all with US firms…HMMmm…shit show? Yeaaaaaa
 
欧洲彻底完蛋了。如果他们要做些什么，早就做了。现在不过是这种为电视制作的胡扯，他们说要做什么，结果没花费几十亿，只是在世界上采购，却没有“欧洲优先”。与此同时，他们的人才都被美国公司抢走了……嗯……这就是个闹剧吧？是的，没错。
 
@catinbootsnow4267
Just simply look at the history of Airbus in the global competition with Boeing.
And the history of Nokia and Ericsson in the global competition with Lucent, Motorola, Cisco and Nortel.
 
看看空中客车与波音在全球竞争中的历史。
再看看诺基亚和爱立信与卢森特、摩托罗拉、思科和北电网络在全球竞争中的历史。
 
@elisgus135
LMao the fact that the EU can't  compete in chip production while making the very lithography machines used to make the most high end chips honestly shows how incredibly useless their governments are. I guess that's what they get for subordinating themselves to the US for 80 years.
 
哈哈，欧盟无法在芯片生产上竞争，尽管他们制造了用于生产最先进芯片的光刻机，这真是显示了他们政府的无能。我想这就是他们服从美国80年后的结果吧。
 
@AthleticHobo-br4qh
20 years ago people would laugh endlessly at the idea of China competing in semiconductors and vehicles.  With the right policies its possible for Europe to grow its own leading edge design and manufacturing supply chain.
 
20年前，如果说中国能在半导体和汽车领域竞争，大家都会笑个不停。只要政策得当，欧洲是有可能发展出自己的领先设计和制造供应链的。
 
@DanielSonghere1454
Lithography machines rely on research and patents made by US scientists— which the Dutch bought and commercialized. Those machines aren’t standalone and very much rely on US and rest of the world
 
光刻机依赖于美国科学家做的研究和专利——荷兰人买下并商业化了这些技术。这些机器并不是独立运作的，很大程度上依赖于美国以及全球其他国家的技术。
 
@JackJack-lv2fj
Europe can't do much. If they try to compete the US steps in. Till that relationship is broken the US runs europe
欧洲做不了太多。如果他们试图竞争，美国就会介入。在这种关系没有打破之前，美国控制着欧洲。
 
@charabotte1
we don't need chips (except  potato chips).
 
我们不需要芯片（除了薯片）。
 
@joeinthe6
Europe retired a few years ago unfortunately, "innovation legacy" is all they have.  Spend more time advocating for holidays and number of vacation days than getting anything done.  Couldn't believe I was in Germany and France this year when I visited after not going for a few years
 
欧洲几年前已经退休了，不幸的是，“创新遗产”是他们唯一的资本。比起做事，他们更花时间为假期和休假天数辩护。我简直不敢相信我今年去了德国和法国，几年没去过，回去后觉得很不一样。
 
@distinctga5811
The 40 billion in US AI chips isn't 'forced' upon Europe. All nations have been actively seeking access to GPU's which are essential to AI development, however demand is so high that Nvidia is struggling to produce enough.
 
美国40亿美元的AI芯片并不是“强迫”欧洲的。各国一直在积极寻求获得GPU，这对于AI发展至关重要，但需求如此之高，以至于Nvidia难以生产足够的芯片。
 
@DanielSonghere1454
I love the discussion of barriers:
1)For labor; no Europe doesn't have the sufficient labor workforce, let alone Ai workforce. Older pop means fewer people to train and unlike China, you can't just "command" there to be 100,000 STEM graduates in AI every year, or is there trillions of private funds to attract top talent like US. Not to mention, majority of AI and chip experts are all Chinese or American born Chinese (TSMC, Jensen Huang, Lisa Su, and every CTO/engineer in OpenAi..etc)
 
我喜欢讨论障碍问题：
劳动力：不，欧洲没有足够的劳动力， 更别提AI劳动力了。人口老龄化意味着培养人才的人少，和中国不同，你不能像中国那样“命令”每年产生10万名AI领域的STEM毕业生，也没有像美国那样的数万亿私人资金来吸引顶尖人才。更别提，大部分AI和芯片专家都是华裔或美国出生的华人（台积电、黄仁勋、苏姿丰，以及OpenAI的所有CTO/工程师等）。
 
2) Infrastructure for chips and Ai are not up to par. You need cheap electricity, massive supply chain, and extremely efficient legal/political approvals. Even if we assume that Europe could attract tons of Ai researchers and chip manufacturers-- you still have the woe of expensive electricity, one of the reasons why EU car manufacturers moved away from Germany was because the cost of electricity in Germany is about 4 to 5 times more expensive than China. All these needs to be address concurrently.
 
 
芯片和AI的基础设施不够完善。你需要便宜的电力、大规模的供应链和极其高效的法律/政治审批。即使假设欧洲能够吸引大量AI研究人员和芯片制造商——你依然面临电力成本高昂的问题，欧盟汽车制造商离开德国的原因之一就是德国的电力成本是中国的4到5倍。这些问题需要同时解决。
 
@PJ-cg6rb
Everyone is dependent on everyone. We have ASML and IMEC. If anything, Europe decides on who gets to manufacture chips. It doesn't have the big fabs (yet) mainly because of high energy costs.
 
每个人都相互依赖。我们有ASML和IMEC。如果有任何问题，欧洲决定谁能制造芯片。它还没有大规模的芯片厂（但还没建立）主要是因为高能源成本。
 
@irmtouch
Chinese engineers take 996 , how do they compete in a more relaxed Europe?
 
中国工程师每天996，欧洲这种更宽松的工作环境，他们怎么竞争？
 
@barrychmak7852
Europe has Low Tech Chips with High National Security problems !
 
欧洲有低技术含量的芯片，同时面临严重的国家安全问题！
 
@Warped-Parallax
The only hope Europe have is sort out its regulations, looks out for the next tech breakthrough and push for that and hope they could leapfrog like China had done to Europe on automobiles.
Everything else is bs. Europe has been technologically lapped by Japan, Taiwan then South Korea and now by China. It really needs to swallow the bitter pills and realise it need to drop its pride and  maybe change everything and reinvent itself.
 
欧洲唯一的希望就是理顺其法规，关注下一次技术突破，推动这一突破，并希望他们能够像中国在汽车领域超越欧洲一样实现赶超。
其他一切都是胡扯。欧洲在技术上已经被日本、台湾（地区）、韩国，甚至现在被中国甩在了后面。欧洲真的需要吞下苦果，意识到必须放下自尊，也许需要改变一切并重新创造自己。
 
@Master_Paladin
I don't think europe know how labor intensive making chips are, bruh all my friends been doing 12+hr shifts on daily basis in fabs, I don't think European really know what they're asking for, this isn't an office job you know
 
我觉得欧洲根本不知道制造芯片有多么劳动力密集，兄弟，我的朋友们每天都在半导体厂工作12小时以上，我觉得欧洲人真的不了解他们在要求什么，这可不是办公室工作啊，你知道的。
 
@vincent2057
Recent chip shortage which cripples auto industry causes by sillie Netherland executives. lol If EU wants to manufacture chip in europe. It will definitely raise car price.
 
最近的芯片短缺让汽车产业陷入困境，这都是荷兰那些愚蠢的高管们惹的祸。哈哈，如果欧盟想在欧洲制造芯片，肯定会推高汽车价格。
 
@nulnoh219
It's never too late. But European countries need to come together to figure out which country does which part of the supply chain. Common prosperity right. Take incremental steps to build up that supply chain. That will take long term planning tho...
 
永远不晚。但欧洲各国需要团结起来，搞清楚哪个国家负责供应链的哪一部分。共同繁荣嘛。逐步建设供应链。但这需要长期规划……
 
@zhengshencn
You stared decades ago but still in phase of political debate. No technically  you’re definitely not late for START.
 
你们几十年前就开始了，但现在还停留在政治辩论阶段。技术上来说，你们绝对不会晚于现在开始。
 
@Achuse123-l7y
In 5 years China will be completely independent when It comes to chip manufacturing. And they are many factors that will contribute to that
 
五年内，中国在芯片制造方面将完全独立。而且有很多因素会促成这一点。
 
@jackflowt
Europe missed the internet era 30 years ago and now they're missing the AI era! Most of them are still discussing how to tax more everyone!
I worked with some colleagues from France, and you notice the problem right away: they can’t make decisions. It’s meetings about meetings with no added value. They’re painfully slow. One thing is certain: China and East Asia will eat them alive. Give it a few years and their economy will be as good as Africa!
 
欧洲错过了30年前的互联网时代，现在又错过了AI时代！他们中的大多数人还在讨论如何加税！
我和一些法国的同事一起工作过，你立刻就能发现问题：他们无法做决定。开会讨论开会，完全没有任何实际意义。他们的速度极其缓慢。可以肯定的是：中国和东亚将把他们吃得连渣都不剩。再过几年，他们的经济就会和非洲一样糟糕！
 
@masa26762
Europe chip investment is the same as Korea plus Japan, the two tiny countries. Let alone USA China. The whole thing has shifted onto the pacific.
 
欧洲在芯片上的投资，和韩国加日本这两个小国差不多。更不用说美国和中国了。整个局势已经转移到太平洋地区了。
 
@jonathanlee7384
EU is dependent on the US on security, bureaucratic, slow, having members who could never agree on anything. So the quick and simple answer is NO.
 
欧盟在安全方面依赖美国，官僚主义严重，行动缓慢，而且成员国之间永远无法达成一致。所以，简单直接的答案是：不行。
 
@wonderland2016
Europe isn't stop talents from coming in. Europe is innovative. but Europe's policy is bad. they put free market over security. what free market does is let market choose what is more efficient. it is great if you are very strong to start with. if not, then Europe would just buy chips from Asia and buy design from the US. same as Cloud service, digital platform, and now AI
 
欧洲并不是阻止人才进入。欧洲是创新的，但欧洲的政策不好。他们把自由市场放在安全之上。自由市场的作用是让市场选择更高效的东西。如果你一开始就很强，那它是很棒的。如果不是，那欧洲就只能从亚洲购买芯片，从美国购买设计。就像云服务、数字平台，现在是AI一样。
 
@emilyblade9676
No its not too late but don't expect quick results - 10 - 20 years maybe. Can even concentrate on new type of Chips like China bypass the ICE engine to go direct to EV's. In the mean time suffer if EU keeps on going down the current route of confrontations expecting other countries to break part or restrict their own development so EU can catch up.
 
不，绝对不是太晚，但不要期待快速的结果——可能需要10到20年。甚至可以专注于新的芯片类型，就像中国绕过ICE引擎直接走向电动车一样。与此同时，如果欧盟继续走当前的对抗路线，期待其他国家分裂或限制自己的发展，以便欧盟赶上，那就得忍受一段时间。
 
@night423-x7t
I see lightning speed when Dutch decide to rob Chinese owned property. Never too late, since robbing is so fast
 
我看到荷兰决定抢夺中国所有的财产时，速度快得像闪电。永远不晚，因为抢夺速度实在太快了。
 
@MichaelPattiruhu
If the EU would make a deal with China, the combination would be invincible in the chip industry. Then agree that only fabs in the EU or China can use the latest ASML machines and Chinas rare earth materials.
 
如果欧盟和中国达成协议，这个组合在芯片行业将是无敌的。然后同意只有欧盟或中国的晶圆厂可以使用最新的ASML设备和中国的稀土材料。
 
@havencat9337
If US doesnt let europe...this is going to be very hard! We see that EU is subservient to the rules and asks of US. If it would trade secrets with CN would be able to get independent! same in the Tech companies...US doesnt allow EU to have any giants.
 
如果美国不让欧洲这样做...那将会非常困难！我们看到欧盟在美国的规则和要求面前是屈服的。如果它和中国进行技术交换，欧盟就能变得独立！在科技公司方面也是一样...美国不允许欧盟有任何巨头。
 
@dahaixing2376
of course not, like what the Dutch government rob the Chinese chip company ownership, if Europe cannot compete,  they rob, that the traditional way that  they get their wealth
 
当然不是，就像荷兰政府抢夺中国芯片公司所有权一样，如果欧洲无法竞争，他们就抢夺，这是他们获得财富的传统方式。
 
@pappelg2639
Halfway through. One comment. We can not choose to prioritize only defense. We need critical minerals and everything else in the supply chain in case of a war. Not only stuff we already have built. We need to be able to produce in scale, with access to metals and minerals, tech and people. We MUST have both AI development, own chip makers, own mineral supply etc. Norway can contribute with minerals but will take time. One is in Estonia I think, near border w/russia. Greenland can help maybe, with help from EU and deals with them and Denmark gets more protection help too. Then we must attract more US talent, get more financing, more state support for key interests and not wait any longer. War will come, of that I am sure. Of course, I hope I am wrong but you must be blind, deaf and be in denial no to see it coming.
 
正在进行中。评论一下。我们不能选择只优先考虑防御。在战争情况下，我们需要关键矿物和供应链中的其他一切。我们不仅仅需要已经建成的东西。我们需要能够大规模生产，获取金属和矿物、技术和人力。我们必须拥有人工智能开发、自己的芯片制造商、自己的矿物供应等。挪威可以提供矿物，但需要时间。好像有一个在爱沙尼亚，靠近俄罗斯边境。格林兰可能能帮忙，欧洲可以协助并与他们达成协议，丹麦也能获得更多的保护支持。然后我们必须吸引更多的美国人才，获得更多融资，更多政府对关键利益的支持，不能再拖延了。战争会来，这点我很确定。当然，我希望我错了，但你必须是盲人、聋子，并且处于否认状态，才能看不到它即将来临。
 
@deragoth4250
Listening to the American say Europe shouldn’t invest in semiconductors and buy from USA is so wrong. Didn’t the USA tell Europe decades ago not to worry about self defence and depend on USA. How did that go?
 
听美国人说欧洲不应该投资半导体，去从美国购买，真是错得离谱。几十年前，美国不是告诉欧洲不要担心自卫，依赖美国吗？结果怎么样了？
 
@mikeg02
Europe needs to listen to their daddy, stop competing with America and just buy U.S. weapons, oil and gas.
 
欧洲需要听从它们的“爸爸”，停止与美国竞争，直接购买美国的武器、石油和天然气。
 
@kennethkong5484
The world needs collaboration from climate change to space exploration , to Semi conductors. It’s one planet earth. The west represents just about 12% of the population and this high fence posturing is foolish, when the brains behind Chips and now AI are eastern born , so you are excluding the very intellect you require. Most stem graduates.. from where?  Sone years ago, I saw a photo of USA ‘s winning, maths Olympiad team..all ethnic Chinese..view from a tiny island in the Caribbean , 7 miles off Venezuela, where you have parked your aircraft carrier
 
世界需要合作，从气候变化到太空探索，再到半导体。这是同一个地球。西方代表的仅仅是约12%的人口，而这种高墙立场的做法是愚蠢的，因为芯片和现在的AI背后的智慧来自东方，所以你们在排除自己所需要的智慧。大多数STEM毕业生…来自哪里？几年前，我看到一张美国数学奥林匹克获胜队伍的照片，队员们全是华裔……这张照片拍摄自加勒比海的一个小岛，距离委内瑞拉7英里，那里停着你们的航空母舰。
 
@steinadleradler3431
Europe can not complete because there are around 30 little "europes" trying to compete. With nazism (aka populism) rising Eu will be more and more fragmented. Good luck
 
欧洲无法竞争，因为大约有30个小“欧洲”在试图竞争。随着纳粹主义（即民粹主义）的崛起，欧盟将会越来越分裂。祝你们好运。
 
@yongchen8204
Yes, Europe can’t compete with America in chips fabrication and design but Europe wants to compete with China in dirty and energy hungry rare earth processing materials.
 
是的，欧洲无法与美国在芯片制造和设计方面竞争，但欧洲想要与中国在肮脏且能源消耗巨大的稀土加工材料领域竞争。
 
@Warped-Parallax
The only hope Europe have is sort out its regulations, looks out for the next tech breakthrough and push for that and hope they could leapfrog like China had done to Europe on automobiles.
 
欧洲唯一的希望就是解决好自己的法规，关注下一次技术突破并推动它，希望他们能像中国在汽车领域超越欧洲那样实现弯道超车。