114 架阵风战机交易陷僵局：印度国防部指空军提案不完整，要求与达索展开进一步谈判
Rafale 114 Fighter Deal Hits Pause Defence Ministry Flags 'Incomplete' IAF Proposal, Seeks More Talks with Dassault
译文简介
印度国防部表示，印度空军关于采购 114 架战斗机的"项目需求说明"（SOC）"不够完整"，要求与"阵风"战机制造商达索公司"进一步磋商"。
正文翻译
Rafale 114 Fighter Deal Hits Pause Defence Ministry Flags 'Incomplete' IAF Proposal, Seeks More Talks with Dassault
114 架阵风战机交易陷僵局：印度国防部指空军提案不完整，要求与达索展开进一步谈判
Saying that the Indian Air Force's "Statement of Case" or SOC for the purchase of 114 fighters as "incomplete," the defence ministry wants "further discussion with Dassault," the manufacturers of the Rafale warplane. Dassault, the French manufacturer,which has given 36 fighters to IAF and also, to the Navy, is one of the top contenders for the 114 fighter deal.
印度国防部表示，印度空军关于采购 114 架战斗机的"项目需求说明"（SOC）"不够完整"，要求与"阵风"战机制造商达索公司"进一步磋商"。法国制造商达索此前已向印度空军和海军交付 36 架战机，是该 114 架战机采购项目的首要竞标方之一。
The "incomplete" issue comes up as there is a strong view that there can be much more indigenisation of the warplane, in line with India's atmanirbharata or self-reliance policy, top government sources told TIMES NOW. India is making two important points:
政府高层消息人士向《时报此刻》透露，此次"资料不全"问题凸显出印度内部强烈主张应进一步提高这种战机的本土化水平，以契合"自力更生"国家政策。印度政府主要强调两大重点：
1. The bulk of the production of the 114 fighters have to be in India. Yes, some can and will come in flyaway condition, but the bulk have to be made in India. Naturally, the numbers or how many will arrive in flyaway condition and how many will be made in India, where the manufacturer will have to set up a factory, presumably with an Indian partner, will have to be worked out during the negotiations.
1. 114 架战斗机中的大部分必须在印度生产。是的，部分可以且将以成品状态交付，但主体必须在印度制造。自然，具体数量——即多少架将以成品形式交付、多少架将在印度本土制造（制造商很可能需与印度合作伙伴共同设立工厂）——都将在谈判过程中确定。
2. The indigenous content cannot be a token 10-15 percent. It must be much more substantial, maybe upto 75 percent or more. Then, Indian defence-sector firms, both government-owned and private, can benefit from this deal. This is also a rare opportunity to play the self-reliance card, sources added. Dassault is keen on setting up a maintenance, repair and overhaul centre in India, in Hyderabad.
2. 本土化内容不能仅是象征性的 10-15%，而必须大幅提升，可能达到 75%甚至更高。这样，无论是国有还是私营的印度国防企业都能从中获益。消息人士补充称，这也是打出"自力更生"牌的难得机遇。达索公司正积极寻求在海得拉巴建立印度本土的维护、修理和大修中心。
The IAF did buy 36 Rafales and that was a government-to-government deal, but this one, assuming it will be to Dassault, will not be a repeat order. This will be a separate deal. Initially, after extensive trials, the IAF had shortlisted two fighter aircraft: the Rafale and the Eurofighter, not considering the American F-16 and F-18, the Swedish Gripen or Russian aircraft. But the negotiations did not go the distance as there were two major differences between the defence ministry and Dassault. First, if they were to be made in India by a government sector firm, who would take the responsibility for the delays? Secondly, the actual cost of production of the planes was also an area of disagreement.
印度空军确实采购了 36 架"阵风"战机，但那属于政府间协议。而本次若与达索直接签约，将不是追加订单，而是一笔全新交易。最初经过严格测试后，印空军候选名单仅剩"阵风"与"欧洲战斗机"，未考虑美国 F-16/F-18、瑞典"鹰狮"或俄制战机。但由于国防部与达索存在两大分歧，谈判未能持续：其一，若由国企在印度本土生产，延期责任由谁承担？其二，飞机实际生产成本也存在争议。
The IAF does need fighter planes and while Hindustan Aeronautics should deliver 180 Tejas1As in the next seven-eight years, there is also a need for the 114 as the IAF's number of fighter squadrons (each one has 18-20 aircraft) is down to about 30, when the requirement is roughly 40. The current fleet has some aging planes, including the Jaguar and the MiG-29. Besides the two squadrons of Rafale fighters, the IAF also has Dassault's Mirage-2000.
印度空军确实需要战斗机，虽然印度斯坦航空有限公司将在未来七八年内交付 180 架"光辉"1A 型战机，但空军仍需那 114 架战机，因为其战斗机中队数量（每个中队配备 18 至 20 架飞机）已降至约 30 个，而实际需求约为 40 个。现役机队中包含部分老旧机型，如"美洲虎"和米格-29。除两个中队的"阵风"战斗机外，印度空军还装备有达索公司的"幻影"-2000。
114 架阵风战机交易陷僵局：印度国防部指空军提案不完整，要求与达索展开进一步谈判
Saying that the Indian Air Force's "Statement of Case" or SOC for the purchase of 114 fighters as "incomplete," the defence ministry wants "further discussion with Dassault," the manufacturers of the Rafale warplane. Dassault, the French manufacturer,which has given 36 fighters to IAF and also, to the Navy, is one of the top contenders for the 114 fighter deal.
印度国防部表示，印度空军关于采购 114 架战斗机的"项目需求说明"（SOC）"不够完整"，要求与"阵风"战机制造商达索公司"进一步磋商"。法国制造商达索此前已向印度空军和海军交付 36 架战机，是该 114 架战机采购项目的首要竞标方之一。
The "incomplete" issue comes up as there is a strong view that there can be much more indigenisation of the warplane, in line with India's atmanirbharata or self-reliance policy, top government sources told TIMES NOW. India is making two important points:
政府高层消息人士向《时报此刻》透露，此次"资料不全"问题凸显出印度内部强烈主张应进一步提高这种战机的本土化水平，以契合"自力更生"国家政策。印度政府主要强调两大重点：
1. The bulk of the production of the 114 fighters have to be in India. Yes, some can and will come in flyaway condition, but the bulk have to be made in India. Naturally, the numbers or how many will arrive in flyaway condition and how many will be made in India, where the manufacturer will have to set up a factory, presumably with an Indian partner, will have to be worked out during the negotiations.
1. 114 架战斗机中的大部分必须在印度生产。是的，部分可以且将以成品状态交付，但主体必须在印度制造。自然，具体数量——即多少架将以成品形式交付、多少架将在印度本土制造（制造商很可能需与印度合作伙伴共同设立工厂）——都将在谈判过程中确定。
2. The indigenous content cannot be a token 10-15 percent. It must be much more substantial, maybe upto 75 percent or more. Then, Indian defence-sector firms, both government-owned and private, can benefit from this deal. This is also a rare opportunity to play the self-reliance card, sources added. Dassault is keen on setting up a maintenance, repair and overhaul centre in India, in Hyderabad.
2. 本土化内容不能仅是象征性的 10-15%，而必须大幅提升，可能达到 75%甚至更高。这样，无论是国有还是私营的印度国防企业都能从中获益。消息人士补充称，这也是打出"自力更生"牌的难得机遇。达索公司正积极寻求在海得拉巴建立印度本土的维护、修理和大修中心。
The IAF did buy 36 Rafales and that was a government-to-government deal, but this one, assuming it will be to Dassault, will not be a repeat order. This will be a separate deal. Initially, after extensive trials, the IAF had shortlisted two fighter aircraft: the Rafale and the Eurofighter, not considering the American F-16 and F-18, the Swedish Gripen or Russian aircraft. But the negotiations did not go the distance as there were two major differences between the defence ministry and Dassault. First, if they were to be made in India by a government sector firm, who would take the responsibility for the delays? Secondly, the actual cost of production of the planes was also an area of disagreement.
印度空军确实采购了 36 架"阵风"战机，但那属于政府间协议。而本次若与达索直接签约，将不是追加订单，而是一笔全新交易。最初经过严格测试后，印空军候选名单仅剩"阵风"与"欧洲战斗机"，未考虑美国 F-16/F-18、瑞典"鹰狮"或俄制战机。但由于国防部与达索存在两大分歧，谈判未能持续：其一，若由国企在印度本土生产，延期责任由谁承担？其二，飞机实际生产成本也存在争议。
The IAF does need fighter planes and while Hindustan Aeronautics should deliver 180 Tejas1As in the next seven-eight years, there is also a need for the 114 as the IAF's number of fighter squadrons (each one has 18-20 aircraft) is down to about 30, when the requirement is roughly 40. The current fleet has some aging planes, including the Jaguar and the MiG-29. Besides the two squadrons of Rafale fighters, the IAF also has Dassault's Mirage-2000.
印度空军确实需要战斗机，虽然印度斯坦航空有限公司将在未来七八年内交付 180 架"光辉"1A 型战机，但空军仍需那 114 架战机，因为其战斗机中队数量（每个中队配备 18 至 20 架飞机）已降至约 30 个，而实际需求约为 40 个。现役机队中包含部分老旧机型，如"美洲虎"和米格-29。除两个中队的"阵风"战斗机外，印度空军还装备有达索公司的"幻影"-2000。
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According to the article, these are the two "requirements" from the MoD:
据文章报道，印度国防部提出了两项"要求"：
The indigenous content cannot be a token 10-15 percent. It must be much more substantial, maybe upto 75 percent or more. Then, Indian defence-sector firms, both government-owned and private, can benefit from this deal. This is also a rare opportunity to play the self-reliance card, sources added. Dassault is keen on setting up a maintenance, repair and overhaul centre in India, in Hyderabad.
本土化内容不能仅是象征性的 10-15%，必须大幅提升至 75%甚至更高。这样印度国防领域的国企和私企都能从中获益。消息人士补充称，这也是打出"自力更生"牌的难得机遇。达索公司正积极寻求在海德拉巴建立印度本土的维护、修理和大修中心。
The bulk of the production of the 114 fighters have to be in India. Yes, some can and will come in flyaway condition, but the bulk have to be made in India. Naturally, the numbers or how many will arrive in flyaway condition and how many will be made in India, where the manufacturer will have to set up a factory, presumably with an Indian partner, will have to be worked out during the negotiations
114 架战斗机中的大部分必须在印度生产。当然，部分可以且将以整机交付状态进口，但主体必须在印度本土制造。具体数量分配——即多少架以整机形式交付、多少架需在印建立生产线（制造商很可能需要与印度合作伙伴共同建厂）——这些细节自然都需要通过谈判来确定
JKKIDD231
Of course, it’s to be expected. Whatever timeline was original, add 10yrs extra to it.
这完全在意料之中。无论最初设定的时间表如何，实际执行时至少要额外追加 10 年。
Scary_One_2452
This mrfa competition will last long enough that the deal will be for FCAS not Rafale eventually lol
这次 MRFA 竞赛会拖得足够久，以至于最终采购的将是 FCAS 而非阵风战机，哈哈
Jazzlike-Tank-4956
Lol you said what actually happened with Mirage 2k -> Rafale which led to original MMRCA
哈哈，你说的情况正是幻影 2000 升级阵风导致原始 MMRCA 招标的翻版
East_Mongoose_5972
Repeat of Mirage 2000.
历史重演了幻影 2000 的剧本。
thrag_of_thragomiser
We will be debating the need to retire Rafales in 2080, when the things will be falling out of the sky.
我们将在 2080 年争论是否需要退役阵风战机，届时这些飞机怕是都要从天上掉下来了。
kishorecmgb
Time is a flat circle.
时间是个平面循环。
Jazzlike-Tank-4956
That won't be a problem after this decade since industry would be mature enough to continously develop and make better aircraft
十年之后就不是问题了，因为航空工业届时将足够成熟，能够持续研发并制造更先进的战机
kishorecmgb
Oh my god , just kill me and be done with it. Ffs 75 percent or more of the aircraft should be indigenous? I doubt Dassault will agree to that
天啊，干脆杀了我算了。搞什么啊，75%甚至更多的战机要本土化？达索公司怎么可能同意这种条件
AIM-120-AMRAAM
The "incomplete" issue comes up as there is a strong view that there can be much more indigenisation of the warplane, in line with India's atmanirbharata or self-reliance policy, top government sources told TIMES NOW.
政府高层消息人士向 TIMES NOW 透露，"方案不完整"争议的根源在于，各方强烈认为这款战机完全可以实现更高程度的本土化，这与印度自力更生的政策导向高度契合。
The first Rafales delivered to the Indian Air Force in July 2020 were baseline models without all 13 India-specific enhancements (ISE). These were added progressively in later batches starting 2022, with retrofits for earlier jets including hardware tweaks and software upgrades.
2020 年 7 月交付印度空军的首批阵风战机是基准型号，并未包含全部 13 项印度专属增强功能。这些升级从 2022 年起在后继批次中逐步加装，早期交付的战机也通过硬件调整和软件升级进行了改装。
Why didn’t they think of it while buying the jets in 2020?
为什么他们在 2020 年购买战机时没考虑到这个？
Also funny how IAF inducted Rafales without modifications but does kich kich when it comes to Tejas. They want everything on Mk1A variant
同样讽刺的是，印度空军接收"阵风"时未作改装，却对"光辉"战机百般挑剔。他们想要 Mk1A 版本具备所有功能
Jazzlike-Tank-4956
People were calling MK1A sh*t because it lacked Astra Mk1 but forgot SU30 came without MKI until 5 years afterwards, Mirage 2k without missiles or proper engine and radar, Rafale without ISE, MiG29 without R73 or proper engine, Gnat as prototype, Jaguar without functioning navigation and targeting system, MiG21 without gun or proper engine, Apache with pretty much expired ATGM, and so on
当初人们贬低 MK1A，只因它缺少"阿斯特拉"Mk1 导弹，却忘了苏 30 直到五年后才升级为 MKI 版本，幻影 2000 最初没有导弹和像样的发动机雷达，"阵风"未配置印度专用设备（ISE），米格 29 早期没有 R73 导弹和合格发动机，蚊式战机以原型机状态服役，美洲虎战机导航瞄准系统形同虚设，米格 21 既无机炮又发动机不达标，阿帕奇配备的 ATGM 导弹近乎过期——类似案例不胜枚举
Inducting even without proper systems is a good decision for dozens of reasons but it should happen with Indian systems aswell
即便系统不完善也坚持列装，这出于诸多合理考量，但印度国产系统也该享受同等对待
AIM-120-AMRAAM
Same case with T90 tanks.
T90 坦克的情况也是如此。
Comment Image
When buying phoren maal - chalta he dekha jayega. We will upgrade them slowly later after 10 years.
采购外国货时——先凑合用吧，十年后再慢慢升级。
When buying indigenous- where is astra? Why is artillery unit 5kg higher than planned?
采购国产货时——阿斯特拉导弹在哪？为什么炮兵单位比计划重了 5 公斤？
PB_05
SU-30 came as the SU-30K with all the capabilities we required at the time. It wasn't built by India and served as an interim solution with the ability to fire R-27s.
苏-30 最初以苏-30K 形态交付，完全满足当时我们的需求。它并非印度制造，只是作为能发射 R-27 导弹的过渡方案。
Mirage-2000 was a panic buy, but regardless carried the Magic-2 from the very start, making it at the worst, equal in capability to the enemy's top of the line fighters.
幻影-2000 虽是仓促购置，但初始就配备魔术-2 导弹，最差性能也与敌方顶尖战机持平。
MiG-29s came without R-73s because the Soviets never intended to sell them to us. It was too advanced a missile.
米格-29 战机交付时未配备 R-73 导弹，因为苏联从未打算向我们出售这款导弹——它属于过于先进的武器系统。
Gnat came as a LRIP aircraft from Folland initially, and was later produced by HAL. It was out of the prototype phase.
"蚊蚋"战机最初是作为 Folland 公司的低速初始生产型号引进，后期才由 HAL 进行本土生产。该项目当时已脱离原型机阶段。
ISEs for the Rafale were implemented as well in a phased manner, but all important ones (including the one you're thinking of) were already implemented.
阵风战斗机的改进标准设备包(ISE)同样是分阶段实施的，但所有关键项目（包括您所指的那项）均已提前完成部署。
CareerThis2727
Commission pe agreement nahi hua hoga.
委员会协议尚未达成。
Historical-Cold-1252
i remember our current COAS words back when he was IAF Vice Chief, "Aatmanirbharta cannot be at the cost of the nation’s defence."
我记得我们现任陆军参谋长担任空军副参谋长时说过："自力更生不能以牺牲国防为代价。"
Educational_Cap8501
Did Dassault refused to pay commission to import bahadurs?
达索公司是否拒绝向进口掮客支付佣金？
Throwaway-fruit-4445
I’ve never understand the Rafale deal. It will not give IAF an edge even over Pakistan, let along China.
我一直没搞懂阵风交易的意义。这甚至无法让印度空军对巴基斯坦形成优势，更别提中国了。
Rafale for Navy kinda makes sense though, those MiG-29Ks are due for an upgrade, and there is nothing better in the pipeline
不过海军选用阵风战机确实有道理，米格-29K 确实需要升级换代，而且目前也没有更好的候选机型
kishaloy
I am secretly happy.
我暗自窃喜。
Now the import happy IAF has to be put their total weight behind the Tejas and Kaveri development. No more luxury foreign brands for them. Now they have to settle for and improve the desi stuff... just like the Chinese did.
现在那些热衷进口的印度空军必须全力以赴支持"光辉"战机和"卡佛里"发动机的研发。他们再也享受不到奢侈的外国品牌了，只能接受并改进国产装备——就像中国人当初做的那样。
kishorecmgb
Pretty sure they have put their weight on mk1a and I have little faith that they will deliver , the Indian government doesn't have the will like the Chinese government neither does it provide funding like the Chinese government and HAL definitely doesnt function like AVIC.
我很确定他们把重点放在了 mk1a 上，但我不太相信他们能按时交付。印度政府既没有像中国政府那样的决心，也无法提供像中国那样的资金支持，而且 HAL 肯定也做不到像 AVIC 那样的运作效率。
earnestworkerbee
Even if the govt fucking wake up it is too late for now
就算政府现在他妈的醒悟过来也为时已晚
PotentialBill1827
but kaveri is severly underpowered right? And the role of Rafale is completely different as compared to MK1A. MK1A cannot be used as a strike aircraft beacuse of its lower paylload capacity, no bvr capability. Ig IAF has accounted for this political issue and put such an outlandish order. They'll probably settle for ~50 units. Only positive thing is development of MK2 might catch some pace.
但卡佛里发动机目前严重动力不足，对吧？而且阵风战斗机的角色与光辉 MK1A 完全不同。MK1A 由于有效载荷较低且缺乏超视距作战能力，无法作为攻击机使用。我猜印度空军已经考虑到这个政治问题，才提出如此夸张的订单。他们最终可能会妥协到约 50 架。唯一积极的是 MK2 型的研发进度可能会加快些。
We dont have any other option than rafale. Even the ACM himself said, tejas will not be better than rafale.
除了阵风我们别无选择。连空军参谋长自己都说过，光辉不可能比阵风更优秀。
Cerealfeeder
MK1A will have Brahmos NG on it in a few years. Astra mk1 is already on it. Mk2 will be tested soon with 200km+ and mk3 is in development. BVR and strike capability exists on it.
MK1A 型战机几年后将配备布拉莫斯 NG 导弹。阿斯特拉 MK1 导弹已列装。射程 200 公里以上的 MK2 型即将测试，MK3 型正在研发中。该机型已具备超视距打击能力。
PB_05
It is DRDO and HAL that are import happy. Case in point: EL/M-2052, GE's F404, EL/L-8222SB, EL/M-2032, EL/L-8222, radome (UK), Derby, Python, R-73, British ejection seat.
热衷进口的恰恰是 DRDO 和 HAL。典型案例包括：EL/M-2052 雷达、通用电气 F404 发动机、EL/L-8222SB 电子战系统、EL/M-2032 雷达、EL/L-8222 干扰吊舱、英国产雷达罩、德比导弹、怪蛇导弹、R-73 导弹以及英制弹射座椅。
The IAF's the end user. DRDO and HAL imported while the IAF waited for an "Indian" fighter.
印度空军作为最终用户，在等待"国产"战机时，DRDO 和 HAL 却在大举进口。
Plane_Bottle7280
IAS babu of Jt Secy level might have felt insecure about how he was treated during the high level meeting with the Minister, where Vice chief would have directly answered a query to the Minster without letting the Jt Secy reply. The guy felt pissed off and sought full audience with the Vice Chief, so he had to turn the file back by pointing details of some technical or contractual term.
一位联合秘书级别的 IAS 官员可能对自己在与部长的高级会议中所受待遇感到不满——副参谋长直接回答了部长的问题，而没有让这位联合秘书发言。此人感到恼火，要求与副参谋长进行完整会面，因此他不得不通过指出某些技术或合同条款的细节来退回文件。
Now the entire Vice chief and the retinue of 100 odd officers would burn the midnight oil only to prepare as to how to reply the query and how to cool his ego by agreeing to the fact that they have overlooked some clause of DPP, that is irrelevant to this procurement.
现在，整个副参谋长及其麾下百余名军官将不得不熬夜加班，只为琢磨如何答复质询，并如何通过承认他们忽略了国防采购程序中某些与此项采购无关的条款来安抚他的自尊心。
Now this babu who has not read the file except a few paras will feign mastery by saying “ Maine bola tha na pura padhne ke liye, par aapne to chod diya “ That is what would have happened and someone would have fed this to Media Guy scxting a completely different story.
如今这位只草草翻阅了几段文件的官僚，会摆出一副料事如神的姿态说："我早说过要通读全文吧，可你们偏不听。"事情本可能如此发展，然后有人会向媒体通风报信，编造出完全不同的剧情。
Acceptable-Second313
Yawr not again. Mera dil ab nahi seh payega ye sab.
哈欠，别再来了。我的心已经承受不了这些了。
snowandclouds
I read these are F4.1 variants. Did IAF agree for GaAs based ASEA radar?
我读到这些是 F4.1 版本。印度空军是否同意了采用砷化镓基有源相控阵雷达？
OrangeSamee
YES! YES! LET'S DUCKING GOOO!
太棒了！太棒了！咱们赶紧行动起来！
Deathfalcon182
There must be few more considerations on top of those mentioned in the articles, that if not provided for by france/dassault, will mean no deal at all.
除了文章中提到的几点之外，必然还有其他关键考量因素。如果法国/达索公司无法满足这些条件，交易将彻底告吹。
We have to move towards NCW doctrine as opposed to platform centric doctrine of today. Rafale must have full spectrum integration, with AWACs/ground radars/IACCS nodes/other fighters.
我们必须从当前以平台为中心的作战理念，转向网络中心战（NCW）体系。阵风战机必须实现与预警机/地面雷达/IACCS 节点/其他战机的全频谱数据链集成。
Rafale should be able to fire all our indigenous (current and future) weapons. From Brahmos to Astra to Rudram to Nirbhay. During any war we're not going to sit around waiting for Scalp/Hammer/Meteors to get delivered before we plan our next operations.
阵风战机必须能兼容发射我们现有的及未来的所有国产武器系统——从布拉莫斯到阿斯特拉导弹，从鲁德拉姆到无畏巡航导弹。战争爆发时，我们不可能坐等头皮导弹/铁锤炸弹/流星导弹的补给到位后再开展军事行动。
All cuurent 36 Rafale + 26 navy Rafale + future 114 Rafale should be upgraded to F4 standard with GaN Aesa.
目前 36 架阵风+26 架海军版阵风+未来 114 架阵风都应升级至配备氮化镓有源相控阵雷达的 F4 标准
I don't think IAF should be allowed to get away with another standalone platform. If all of this isn't on the table then they should hit the breaks on this deal asap.
我认为不应该让印度空军再获得另一个独立平台。如果这些条件都不在考虑范围内，那么他们应该立即叫停这笔交易。
Ultimo_Ninja
I'm sure the IAF will get the planes...after a war has been lost.
我确信印度空军最终会得到这些战机……只不过是在输掉一场战争之后。
Centeredrightbhakt05
IAF: We will modernise our fleet.
印度空军：我们将实现机队现代化。
Babus in MOD: Aise kaise ...
国防部官员：这怎么行...
JKKIDD231
Middlemen and MOD babu: who will pay my canteen bills.
中间商和国防部官僚：谁来报销我的食堂账单。
One_Sided_Loverr
If jets becoming only weapons carrying Platform then wouldn't be good to go with kaveri + tejas(maybe parallel). Yes, it will bad thrust to weight ratio but we used marut with underpowered engine for ground attack and it was good, Make everything like Tejas and only weak lix will be only thrust to weight, some other platforms complement it. Try to Karen.
如果战机仅作为武器搭载平台，那么选择"卡佛里"发动机+光辉战机（或许并行发展）难道不是更好？是的，这将导致推重比不佳，但我们过去使用动力不足的"风神"战机执行对地攻击任务也表现良好。将所有装备都像光辉战机那样国产化，唯一的短板就剩推重比了，其他平台可以互补。试着像卡伦那样坚持吧。
ginta47
Do we really need 114 rafale ? Why not halve the number and spent rest on something indigenous
我们真的需要 114 架阵风战斗机吗？为何不将数量减半，将剩余资金投入国产化项目
kishorecmgb
We are spending it on indigenous and they are coming along very well , wouldn't you agree ?
我们正把这些资金投入国产项目，而且进展非常顺利，你不同意吗？
RitFUCKINGVik
France is going through political instability. If Western Europe decides to orchestrate war against Russia, you can expect significant delays to our procurement even with indigenous production(60-70%). Better to get serious about atmanirbar bharat rather than keeping it as some political slogan or cunningly broadening the definition of it to include foreign licensed screwdrivergiri to stat boost.
法国正经历政治不稳定。若西欧决定联合对俄开战，即便本土化生产达 60-70%，我们的军购仍将严重延误。与其将"印度自力更生"当作政治口号，或狡猾地扩大其定义以纳入外国授权螺丝刀式组装来充数据，不如认真推动真正自主。
Put the $22 fking billion into tejas, tejas-n and amca. Scrap tedbf and streamline our production and procurement across Air Force and Naval air assets. I pray some defense intern pushes these views up the ladder. And tell the armed forces no more fucking imports on stuff we have domestic alternatives for regardless of whether they are slightly inferior to import maal. Get serious.
把那该死的 220 亿美元投给"光辉"战机、"光辉"海军版和 AMCA（先进中型战斗机）项目。砍掉 TEDBF（双发舰载战斗机）计划，统一空海军航空装备的生产采购体系。真希望国防部的哪个实习生能把这条建议层层上报。再告诉三军：但凡国内有替代方案的装备——哪怕性能比进口货稍逊——都他妈别再买了。动点真格的吧。
Sam_Fisher91
It was going too fast according to Babus standard.
按照官僚们的标准，这个进程推进得太快了。
This isnt surprising
毫不意外
casanovawomanizer
I feel like they are doing it deliberately and not due to this indigenous content reason. Maybe they are planning something else? maybe su57?
我觉得他们是故意的，而不是因为本土化率这个原因。也许他们在计划别的事情？可能是苏-57？
Samarium_15
Kya ch*dampanti hai yr. Mods please excuse the language
真是够扯淡的。版主请见谅我的用词
killa_kuma
It is smarter to cancel the Rafale deal. Drones are the major system, that does all the killing. If so, shouldn't it get the lions share of funding? But drones don't even receive one billion dollars. That doesn't make sense.
取消"阵风"战机交易才是明智之举。无人机才是执行大部分杀伤任务的主力系统。既然如此，难道不该让它获得最大份额的资金支持吗？可实际上无人机连十亿美元都分不到，这根本说不通。
Your most dangerous weapon should get the lions share of the funds. Instead of obsolete manned fighter planes, drones are the right answer.
你们最致命的武器理应获得资金的最大头。相比过时的有人驾驶战机，无人机才是正确答案。
The Russian invasion of Ukraine has changed the way war is fought, with more than 70% of frontline casualties on both sides from airborne drone attacks.
俄罗斯入侵乌克兰改变了战争形态，双方前线超过 70%的伤亡都来自空中无人机袭击。
https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2025/jul/28/drone-warfare-in-the-ukraine-war-in-pictures
Drones do the damage, not obsolete flying Merde like the Rafale. Order at least 30 000 Sheshnag, million FPV drones and million desi clones of Mavic quadcopters.
造成实际杀伤的是无人机，而非像阵风这类过时的飞行废铁。至少订购 3 万架"舍沙纳格"无人机、百万架 FPV 无人机和百万架国产版"御"四旋翼无人机才是正解。
Cookie_BHU
Good. Without source code and cross platform integration the IAF will continue to be a Kichdi Air Force that uses insecure channels for communication, has to worry constantly about blue on blue shoot downs, and can't integrate its other weapons and sensors.
做得好。没有源代码和跨平台整合，印度空军将继续沦为"大杂烩空军"——使用不安全的通信渠道，时刻担忧友军误击事故，且无法整合其他武器与传感器系统。
The only way to face off against a 5th/6th generation Air Force is a highly network integrated airforce. No more of this buffet style shopping.
对抗第五/第六代空军的唯一方式，就是建立高度网络一体化的空军。这种"自助餐式"的装备采购必须终止。
If Rafale is to be purchased then it must be able to fully integrate with Netra Mk1A, IACCS, LCA, Su-30, and S-400.
若采购"阵风"战机，必须确保其能完全融入"净空"Mk1A 预警机、一体化空中指挥控制系统、光辉战机、苏-30 以及 S-400 的作战体系。