欧洲人穿类似汉服的礼服参加毕业舞会，会不会显得不尊重中国文化？

@yoohoooos
This is China, not the US. 

这里是中国，不是美国。


@Impressive_Grape193
Also this is a cosplay lol.. It would be odd even if Chinese wore it to a formal event.

而且这就是个 cosplay 啊 lol……就算是中国人穿去正式场合也会很奇怪。


@AttorneySure2883
Theres a lot of leftist ABCs with colonized mentality here though that would gladly spit left wing talking points like “cultural appropriation”

这里有很多左翼的华裔美国人，带着被殖民的心态，特别喜欢说一些左翼的套话，比如“文化挪用”。  


@Chinapie1999
Not for Chinese. Culture appropriation is really about stealing other culture and make money from it without sharing. Wearing hanfu to a prom is culture appreciation.

对中国人来说不是。文化挪用真正指的是偷别人的文化去赚钱却不分享。穿汉服去毕业舞会是对文化的欣赏。


@ytman
I wonder if this tension exists in the US because so much of its culture is about selfish benefit by marketing trends with a 'fake it till you make it' ethos leading to soulless appropriation instead of appreciation.
Also fracturing US society as groups we segregate into probably makes it easier for people to feel like their group is being encroached upon. Instead of you know actual unity.

我想这种紧张关系在美国可能是因为，美国文化里有很多是为了个人利益而追逐营销潮流，“装到成真”的心态容易导致空洞的文化挪用而不是真心的欣赏。  
而且，美国社会的分裂——大家被划分进不同群体——可能也让人更容易觉得自己的群体被侵犯了，而不是说真的有团结。


@whynonamesopen
Worth mentioning in the US context is that cultural aesthetics are being appropriated at the same time the groups they are coming from are being marginalized.

在美国的语境下值得一提的是，某些文化的美学元素被拿来借用的同时，这些文化群体却正遭受边缘化。


@ytman
Truth. What made me question the xiangshen narrative is the embracing of the culture of the autnomous region while also, you know, integrating it and uplifting it.

说真的，让我开始质疑“相声”这种说法的原因，是看到他们既拥抱那个自治地区的文化，同时又在融合、提升它。  


@tyrantlubu2
Culture appropriation is more of a diaspora thing. Mainlanders if any country would generally love to see westerners wear traditional outfits. Could be more sensitive for diaspora communities as there is more of an identity issue for them.

文化挪用更多是海外移民社区关心的事。对中国大陆人来说，看到西方人穿传统服饰一般会觉得挺好。对海外华人来说就可能更敏感一些，因为这和他们的身份认同问题更相关。


@ytman
That makes a lot of sense in examination. Especially if your new nation both belittles you for your heritage but then also commercializes it for their benefit.
Doesn't help that many western bound diaspora are various levels of self hating.

这话很有道理，尤其是当你的新国家一边轻视你的文化背景，一边又为了自己的利益去商业化它的时候。  
更糟的是，很多往西方移民的群体在不同程度上都有点自我否定。


@skyrider_longtail
This is dishonest lol. You only need to look at mainlanders' reaction to South Korea claiming Chinese stuff as theirs to see that the Chinese gets offended same as every other ethnic and culture group when their culture gets stolen and the origins not acknowledged.

这也太不诚实了哈哈。你只要看看大陆人对韩国把中国的东西说成是他们的反应，就会发现中国人跟其他民族和文化群体一样——当自己的文化被偷走、起源不被承认时，他们也会很生气。


@AttorneySure2883
It exists in the US because of mentally ill (white) American leftists playing identity politics 24/7 to the point that they can’t see a beautiful piece of clothing like the hanfu without crying about race. Though to be fair, even their fellow American leftists seem to ridicule them for it

在美国会出现这种情况，是因为一些精神状态不太好的（白人）美国左派整天玩身份政治，搞到看到像汉服这样漂亮的衣服都要扯到种族问题、上纲上线。话说回来，就连他们自己的左派同胞好像也会拿这事笑话他们。  


@Beneficial-Card335
Maybe the concern for “disrespect” is out of identity politics, faux moralism associated with tribes, particularly fear of ‘bitchy’ or ‘catty’ rivalry from other American women competing on appearance, costume, sexiness, etc, in hope of becoming ‘prom Queen’. That is, bullying culture and risk of social fallout if brandished as “disrespectful”.

也许这种对“不尊重”的担忧，其实源于身份政治和某种装模作样的道德说教，特别是害怕来自其他美国女性在外表、服饰、性感程度等方面的刻薄或嫉妒竞争，为了争夺“舞会皇后”的头衔。换句话说，是一种霸凌文化，以及如果被贴上“不尊重”的标签，可能带来的社交后果。


@ytman
I would absolutely agree with this. In the US our culture is often times defaulting to attacking each other passively or out right aggressively.
The culture of the US is so zero sum its saddening.

我完全同意这个说法。在美国，我们的文化常常默认用冷嘲热讽或者直接攻击别人的方式交流。  
美国的文化太像零和游戏了，真让人难过。


@Beneficial-Card335
Yeah, I’m assuming it’s not appropriate for “European” descent to dress in Native American Indian costume because they’re a racial minority group, similarly Chinese/API are another ‘minority’ it’s not appropriate to dress in Chinese costume. Which is racially biased to profile people by dress, that happens in American history/art, exaggerating Chinese appearances to an unreal level, when the real person doesn’t look or dress that way. So I think that that mentality is “disrespectful” and racist NOT wearing the “Hanfu” dress itself.
漢服 is literally “Han (dynasty style) dress”, like 唐服 Tang/Chinese dress vs 西裝 Western dress. Chinese wear both. It’s just clothes. The former has traditional/Chinese connotation and the latter has modern/British/Euro connotation. So Europeans or whoever should be able to wear whatever they want, the only problem imo is the cosplay mentality that’s racial stereotyping who is kinda racist and “disrespectful”.
Like, if a girl chooses to wear hanfu on a formal occasion, fine, that’s their choice, but would they wear it to a job interview or their wedding? If not, that’s the hypocrisy and “disrespect”.

我觉得，就像对于欧洲血统的人来说，穿美洲原住民的传统服装不太合适，因为他们是少数族裔。同样，中国人/亚裔群体也是另一类“少数族裔”，所以有人觉得穿中国服饰不太合适。这种根据穿着来给人种族标签的做法，本身就是美国历史和艺术里的老套路——夸张化、异化中国人的形象和服饰，而现实中的人并不是那样的。这种思路才是“不尊重”和带有种族歧视的，而不是穿汉服本身。
汉服字面意思就是“汉朝风格的服装”，就像说唐服/中国服饰 vs 西装/西方服饰一样。中国人两种都穿，只是一个有传统/中国意味，另一个有现代/英国/欧洲意味。所以我觉得欧洲人或者其他人都可以穿自己喜欢的服装，唯一的问题在于那种带有种族刻板印象的“cosplay”心态——那才是有点种族歧视和“不尊重”的地方。
就像，如果一个女生选择在正式场合穿汉服，可以啊，那是她的选择。但问题是——她会在求职面试或自己的婚礼上穿汉服吗？如果不会，那才是虚伪和“不尊重”。


@ytman
There is a famous instance of a Victoria Secret model wearing a native american head dress during a runway show.
The head dress is a religious/ritual piece and the show was about underwear.
It was clearly mindless disrespect. It'd be akin to them doing a sexy Nun outfit.
I think you nailed it. The issue is intent, is it mockery or thoughtless? Or is it respectful? And maybe a middle ground of unintentional inappropriate use.
And then there is the aspect of trying to commoditize it as a form of functional disrespect.

有个很有名的例子是维密模特在走秀时戴了美洲原住民的头饰。  
这种头饰其实是宗教/仪式用品，而那个秀是内衣秀。  
这显然是毫无意识的冒犯，就像她们搞一个性感修女的造型一样。  
我觉得你说得对，核心是意图——是嘲弄、没想太多，还是尊重？又或者是介于中间的、无意间的不恰当使用。  
还有一种情况是，刻意把它商品化，这本身就是一种功能性的冒犯。  


@rdfporcazzo
I read a good example on a Brazilian subreddit a couple of days ago.
A Texan woman presented a "typical" Texan dessert according to her: açaí smoothie. She literally culturally appropriated a Brazilian dish from the Amazon.

几天前我在一个巴西的 subreddit 上看到个挺好的例子。  
一个德州女人端出她所谓的“典型”德州甜点：巴西莓冰沙。她完全是把来自亚马逊的巴西料理拿来文化挪用。


@Karatekan
The Açai craze is like 40 years old dude, it’s not traditional at all. People had been eating the fruit for thousands of years, but they didn’t purée it with ice. The modern Açai bowl was popularized by the Gracies in the 80’s and spread to America in the 2000’s

巴西莓热潮都四十多年了，兄弟，这东西一点也不“传统”。人们吃这种水果已经有几千年的历史了，但以前可不会把它和冰一起打成泥。现代的巴西莓碗是格雷西家族在80年代推广的，2000年代才传到美国。


@Acceptable-Card-5417
That’s absurd lMao. A food being popular in more than one place is not appropriation. Guess the world should stop wearing blue jeans too or else they’re appropriating American culture

这太荒谬了哈哈。一样东西在不止一个地方流行并不算文化挪用。要按你这么说的话，那全世界都该别穿牛仔裤了，不然就是在挪用美国文化。


@Nevarien
I'm Brazilian, and I saw that post. Açaí is a native Brazilian fruit, and it has been eaten hundreds, if not thousands of years before Europeans arrived. Some decades ago, it came to the big cities and then it was popularised in the form of an ice cream dessert, even though it was eaten with fish and savoury food previously. Açaí became international not long ago, maybe like 5 to 10 years at the most.
The Texan woman was trying to present açaí cream like it was originally from there, per the post, so there's someone profiting from a native fruit without giving its country of origin any credit. It's not only native, but also ancient and very traditionally eaten by the indigenous peoples across the Amazon.
Yes, foods travel the world, but saying açaí is Texan is like saying sushi is from Los Angeles. It was definitely disrespectful.


我是巴西人，我看过那个帖子。巴西莓（açaí）是一种原产于巴西的水果，欧洲人到来之前，它已经被吃了几百甚至上千年。几十年前，它进入了大城市，并以冰淇淋甜品的形式流行起来，虽然在这之前它通常是配鱼或者咸味食物一起吃的。巴西莓真正走向国际也就是最近的事，大概最多五到十年。
帖子里说的那个德州女人试图把巴西莓奶昔介绍成德州原创，所以这就是有人在利用一种本土水果赚钱，却不给它的原产国任何信用。它不仅是原产的，而且是古老的，亚马逊流域的土著民族一直传统食用它。
当然，食物会在世界各地传播，但说巴西莓是德州的，就像说寿司是洛杉矶的——绝对是种不尊重。


@GraXXoR
In all fairness,  Amazonians were famous even back in the 18th century for capturing icebergs that flowed north up the Amazon from the Antarctic in the winter, where they stored them in underground caverns for use throughout the year, since they hadn’t developed refrigerators yet. They would cut them up in the summer and brought chunks out to make their famous açai smoothies and to use as ice beds for their sashimi parties to prevent the raw fish going off. 
Texan my ass!

说实话，早在 18 世纪，亚马逊人就因在冬天捕捉从南极飘到亚马逊河上游的冰山而闻名，他们会把冰山储存在地下洞穴里全年使用，因为当时还没有冰箱。夏天的时候，他们会把冰切成小块，用来做他们著名的巴西莓冰沙，或者在生鱼片派对上铺冰床防止鱼肉变坏。  
德州人傻X！


@No-Project-8216
It depends. The reason Asian-Americans etc get upset and Chinese-Chinese don’t is they have completely different experiences. If you wear Hanfu in Beijing no one is going to roll eyes at you at best or call you racial slurs or make slang-eye gestures at you at worst.
That is what is missed when that girl wore a qipao to her prom and it went viral. If you’re actually Asian and you wear it you know people are going to start up with “why can’t you just dress American,” but if a white girl does it she gets nothing but praise for being brave and different,
I’m not saying you can’t wear it, but you should understand why people feel this way.
Again, people actually from China do not have the same lived experience as Chinese people who are minority groups so they would have a completely different (and understandable) reaction. Like “oh, cool that you like our cultural clothes. Sure, wear it.” But that doesn’t make the other group wrong or out of touch.

看情况吧。亚裔美国人等会觉得不舒服，而在中国的中国人不会，这主要是因为他们的经历完全不同。你在北京穿汉服，最好是没人对你翻白眼，最糟也不会有人对你喊种族歧视的脏话或做辱华的眼神动作。  
这就是当时那个女生穿旗袍去毕业舞会并走红时，人们忽略的背景。如果你是亚裔，穿这种衣服可能会有人挑刺，说“为什么不能穿美国人的衣服”；但如果是一个白人女生穿，她只会被夸勇敢、特别。  
我不是说你不能穿，而是你得理解为什么有人会有这样的感受。  
再次强调，真正来自中国的人，其日常体验和在少数族裔身份下生活的华人不同，所以反应也不一样。在中国的人更可能会觉得，“哦，你喜欢我们的传统服饰，挺好啊，穿吧。”但这并不代表另一种感受就是错的或脱离现实。  


@Electronic-Yellow-87
You’re too focused on America. She is from Poland, that’s completely different continent.

你太关注美国了。她是波兰人，那是完全不同的大陆。


@synthboi72
Ah yes no racism in Poland definitely not.

啊，对，波兰绝对没有种族歧视，当然了。  （反话）


@Big-Equal7497
Do you truly believe that this type of thing doesn’t happen in Poland or Europe either?

你真的觉得这种事在波兰或者欧洲不会发生吗？


@oboris
It doesn't. She may look odd to some, but most people woluld not understand the meaning of cultural apprpriation. Those who would understand would look at the commenter as someone brainwashed by american woke hysteria

没事的。她在一些人眼里也许会显得有点奇怪，但大多数人根本不懂“文化挪用”是什么意思。那些懂的人反而会觉得评论者是被美国那套“觉醒”歇斯底里洗脑了。  



@Devilishz3
This is the most correct answer here. Of course this is an exaggerated example but when prager U had that guy ask old Chinese grandmas if him wearing traditional Chinese outfits with a rice hat was racist and she said no, that doesn't mean shit. She just doesn't have the context to know when people are making a mockery of them.
Now if OP wears it, since I know her intention I wouldn't have any issue like me wearing any other european thing. In an ideal world anyone could wear anything without issue but reality is a little different. It's not exclusively an America thing because that would be like saying asians only experience racism in America.
I suggest anyone wear it, including OP if you help normalize it, answer where it's from and show appreciation.

这条评论是这帖里最正确的回答。虽然这是个夸张的例子，但当 PragerU 让一个人去问中国老奶奶，说他戴着斗笠、穿着中国传统服饰是不是种族歧视，她说“不是”，其实那并不能说明什么。她只是不了解别人是在嘲弄他们的这种语境。
如果是楼主穿的话，因为我知道她的出发点，我不会有意见，就像我穿任何其他欧洲服饰一样。理想世界里，任何人都可以毫无顾虑地穿任何东西，但现实不太一样。这并不是美国特有的事，不然就等于说亚洲人只在美国才会遇到种族歧视。
我建议任何人都可以穿包括楼主，只要你能帮忙让它更普遍、说清楚它的来源并表达欣赏就好。


@Gold-Standard420
This is the best take. I’m Asian American and this is how I feel. If I wore traditional Chinese cloths on the streets I may be deported by ICE on the spot. But a white person does it and every one celebrate it as if the whities are so progressive and cool.
I wouldn’t say don’t wear it. I appreciate you actually checking in and starting this conversation about it. But like this poster said, just don’t be shocked when some people may be offended by it.

这是最到位的观点。我是亚裔美国人，这正是我的感受。如果我在街上穿传统中式服装，可能会立刻被移民局遣返；但白人穿上同样的衣服，大家却会大肆称赞，说白人真进步、真酷。
我不会说“别穿”。我很欣赏你愿意来确认并开启这个话题讨论。但就像这位发帖的人说的，不要惊讶有人可能会因此感到被冒犯。


@TravelenScientia
whities
Casual bit of racism for my morning I guess

白鬼子  
我猜就是早上随意来点种族歧视


@iamMore
lol this is delusional. You’re not getting deported by ICE for wearing traditional clothes. And no one is telling OP to dress more American (except maybe her parents).
People can feel what they feel but that doesn’t mean their feelings are grounded in reality.
It’s totally fine to wear this to your prom. No Chinese cares, and no one else has a legitimate reason to care.

笑死，这也太离谱了吧。你穿传统服装不会被移民局抓去遣返啦。而且除了她爸妈，没人叫原帖作者要穿得更“美国”一点。
大家有自己的感受，但不代表这些感受就是现实。
去舞会穿这个完全没问题，中国人不会在意，其他人也没什么正当理由去在意。


@FunisGreen
She said she's doing this in Poland, Poland Doesn't have the same systemic issues against POC.

她说她要在波兰这么做，波兰没有针对有色人种的同样系统性问题。


@mrkwa
You are joking right? Eastern Europe is very racist.

你在开玩笑吧？东欧很种族歧视。  


@LordJesterTheFree
That sounds like it's the problem of the people who would judge others for wearing the clothing they want to wear not that people who are wearing what they want to wear is problematic

听起来问题在于那些会因为别人穿自己想穿的衣服而去评判他们的人，而不是穿自己喜欢的衣服的人有问题。


@Putrid-Knowledge-445
Cultural appropriation is a bunch of bored white women who never worked a day in their lives trying to do something so they feel like they are actually important
NO BODY gives a fuck about cultural appropriation besides bored white people

文化挪用就是一群从没干过一天活的无聊白人女性，为了让自己觉得有点重要而硬找事做。  
除了那些无聊的白人，没人会在乎什么文化挪用。


@colourful_josh
Based and accurate. The want to feel a sense of righteous indignation.

有道理，而且说得很准。他们就是想有种义愤填膺的感觉。


@AttorneySure2883
A lot of ABCs are just bubble tea whites too.

很多 ABC（美国出生的华裔人）也就是喝奶茶的白人罢了。


@arbiter12
Culture appropriation is:
-stealing other culture
and
-make money from it without sharing.
therefore:
-Wearing hanfu to a prom is culture appreciation. (???)
What money will you make from dressing up at the prom? I find the rules stupid enough already but if you don't even apply them correctly, where are we going with this?
Go where your costume to prom OP. If anybody tell you anything, tell them Westerners invented smokings, t-shirts and sneakers, and everybody seems to be wearing those without asking. Just treat the costume with respect, not as a parody, and you're good.

文化挪用是：  
——偷别人的文化  
以及  
——从中赚钱却不分享。  
所以：  
——穿汉服去毕业舞会是文化欣赏（？？？）  
你穿着去舞会又能赚什么钱呢？我觉得这些规则本来就够傻了，如果连规则都用错，那还能走到哪去？  
去吧 OP，穿你的礼服去舞会。如果有人说你什么，就告诉他们西方人发明了礼服、T 恤和运动鞋，大家好像也都在穿这些，却没人去征得同意。只要你对这套衣服保持尊重，不拿来搞恶搞，你就没问题。


@AzureFirmament
Do you have trouble understanding appropriation vs appreciation or you have reading disability in general?

你是分不清文化挪用和文化欣赏，还是你一般就有阅读障碍啊？


@yangmeansyoung
Plus these are not real hanfu,they are just cheaply made drama series costumes. Hanfu literally means clothes from Han dynasty which was 2000years ago , not only nobody knows how to make them anymore they were made not even in cotton, （some kind of linen ）can image how uncomfortable it was if it was made authencally

而且这些根本不是真正的汉服，只是廉价的古装剧服装而已。汉服从字面上看就是汉代的服饰，距今已经两千多年了。不但没人知道怎么做，当时甚至不是用棉布做的，而是用某种麻料。可以想象，如果真按古代工艺制作，穿起来会有多不舒服。


@SinAnaMissLee
I guarantee you it's not appreciation. It's actually just a form of Cosplaying.... If some people feel undue appreciation. So be it... But the people wearing it don't actually appreciate it.
Not Chinese, don't really care, but just wanted to clarify.

我敢保证这不是欣赏，只是一种角色扮演罢了……如果有人觉得这是过度的欣赏，那也随他们吧……但穿的人其实并没有真正欣赏它。
我不是中国人，也不在乎，只是想说明一下。


@scoops_trooper
If you’re not Chinese and hanfu is therefore not even part of your culture then wtf do you think you are clarifying and why do you feel you can speak on another culture’s behalf?

如果你不是中国人，汉服根本不是你文化的一部分，那你到底想澄清什么？凭什么替别人的文化发声？


@SinAnaMissLee
I'm clarifying on what's going on in people's mind outside of China when people from my parts are cosplaying.
YOU are welcome to feel appreciated if that's what you want but just be aware that's not the intent of cosplayers.
I'm not clarifying on behalf of China or people from China.
You hastily misinterpreted me.

我是在解释中国以外的人在我们这边玩角色扮演时的想法。  
如果你愿意感到被欣赏，那当然欢迎，但要知道这并不是角色扮演者的初衷。  
我不是代表中国或中国人来解释。  
你只是匆忙误解了我的意思。  


@Avannn
You watch too much american bs propaganda no one cares you can wear whatever you want

你看了太多美国那套胡编乱造的宣传了，没人在乎，你想穿啥就穿啥。


@Wonderful-King2389
IMO it’s more about culture difference rather than propaganda. The US as a multicultural and multiracial country is extremely sensitive to cultural appropriation ts. In China people just don’t care.

我觉得这更多是文化差异的问题，而不是宣传的问题。美国作为一个多元文化、多种族的国家，对文化挪用这类事非常敏感；在中国，人们根本不在乎。


@iamMore
The point is that the US is wrong to be so stupidly sensitive to cultural appropriation.

关键是，美国在文化挪用问题上反应过度，太蠢了。


@yebisu2001
Any another culture is glad to see people like their culture

任何其他文化都很乐意看到有人喜欢他们的文化。