继美国、中国和俄罗斯之后，你认为哪三个国家将位列全球空军四至六名？

Some_Development3447 
Apparently India leapfrogged China recently according to Newsweek.

据《新闻周刊》最新报道，印度军力近期已超越中国。

edgygothteen69
I have just released a ranking.

我刚发布了一份排名。

Venezuela air force now leap frigged the US air force. Venezuela now has a combat coefficient of 1,672.175 vs united states air force coefficient of 1,617.653

委内瑞拉空军现已超越美国空军。委内瑞拉当前战斗系数为 1,672.175，而美国空军系数仅为 1,617.653

Venezuela now considering invading Florida

委内瑞拉正考虑入侵佛罗里达州

upxe   

最新动态

Seychelles has also leapfrog Russia according to my ranking

根据我的排名，塞舌尔已经超越了俄罗斯

Seychelles combat coefficient 2,197

塞舌尔战斗系数 2,197

Russia coefficient 1245.853368

俄罗斯系数 1245.853368

cookingboy
I didn’t know Newsweek editors are also NCD fans.

原来《新闻周刊》的编辑也是 NCD （“不可信防务”版）的粉丝啊。

Norzon24 
Not even NCD is that non-credible r/Indian defence more like

就连 NCD 都没这么不可信，更像“印度国防”版

Jazzlike-Tank-4956
Never seen Indian defence watchers even remotely say that

从来没见过印度防务版的观察者哪怕稍微这么说过

You guys like to assume way too much while knowing little

你们在知之甚少的情况下总爱过度臆测

cookingboy
I’m not even sure Russia is number 3, they don’t even have air dominance over Ukraine.

我甚至不确定俄罗斯能否排第三，他们连在乌克兰战场都无法取得制空权。

But I’m absolutely certain India isn’t number 4. They have zero 5th gen jets and they just got their ass kicked by Pakistan, a nation whose air force is not even in the top 10.

但我可以百分百确定印度排不到第四。他们一架五代机都没有，而且刚刚被巴基斯坦——一个空军连前十都进不了的国家——狠狠教训了一顿。

jerpear
All around capability, Russia absolutely should be no. 3, with a significant gap to no. 4 (imo either UK or Japan).

综合能力来看，俄罗斯绝对应该位列第三，与第四名（我个人认为可能是英国或日本）之间存在显著差距。

Russia has indigenous 5th Gen fighters, in moderate quantities, their own advanced missiles, some of the best multirole platforms out there in the Flanker family, their own tankers, strategic bombers, transports, and heli families. There's no significant holes in the Russian fleet except AEWC aircraft.

俄罗斯拥有自主研制的五代机（数量适中）、先进导弹、侧卫家族中堪称最佳的多用途战机平台、自产的加油机、战略轰炸机、运输机及直升机系列。除了预警机存在短板外，俄罗斯空军机队几乎没有明显缺陷。

Obviously China and the US are far ahead, but I wouldn't expect any other air force to fare better than the Russians have in their current conflict.

中美两国显然遥遥领先，但我不认为其他任何空军在当前冲突中的表现能比俄罗斯更出色。

Norzon24
While I agree Russia still deserves the 3rd spot due to having a compressive and large air force. Su57 isn't a true 5 gen jet since it by many accounts isn't very stealthy, and not in large scale service

虽然我同意俄罗斯仍应位居第三，因其拥有规模庞大且全面的空军力量。但苏-57 并非真正的第五代战机，多方评估表明其隐身性能欠佳，且尚未大规模服役

_spec_tre
It's the eternal paper vs reality question for the VKS again and even now we don't really have a full answer

对俄罗斯空天军（VKS）来说，这又回到了纸上谈兵与现实战力的永恒疑问，即便到现在我们也没有确切的答案

Accidental-Genius
The number of planes doesn’t matter if you don’t have an adequate number of top tier pilots.

若缺乏足够数量的顶尖飞行员，战机数量再多也毫无意义

I can give my niece a race car; that doesn’t mean she can win a race.

就算给我侄女一辆赛车，也不意味着她能赢得比赛

jerpear
VKS pilots are currently the most experienced in the world. Shouldn't assume at this point, almost 4 years into a war that their pilots are poor.

俄罗斯空天军飞行员目前堪称全球实战经验最丰富的群体。在这场持续近四年的战争中，此刻若仍臆测其飞行员素质低下实属武断

Fun-Corner-887
Numbers are a quality in an of itself. 

数量本身就是一种质量优势

BoBSMITHtheBR
Israel might even be number 4. They have a small elite force that seems to work well in surprise attacks and decapitation strikes. I don’t think India could pull off the same without F-35s. What Israel really lacks is numbers.

以色列甚至可能排名第四。他们拥有一支精干的精锐力量，在突袭和斩首行动中表现出色。我认为没有 F-35 战机的印度难以做到同样水平。以色列真正缺乏的是数量规模。

YungSkub
Who besides China or the US would be able to achieve air dominance over Ukraine? 

除了中国或美国，还有谁能对乌克兰取得制空权？

cookingboy
I bet Israel could, or Japan, or RAAF.

我打赌以色列、日本或澳大利亚空军（RAAF）能做到。

Basically any nation with enough F-35s

拥有足够数量 F-35 战机的国家基本上都算得上

Jazzlike-Tank-4956
USAF   

美国空军

PLAAF   

中国人民解放军空军

VVS   

俄罗斯空天军

Will place Japanese fleet

将日本航空自卫队列为第四

Strong fleet with hundred F35 which are great force multiplier, and they have strong AWACS and transport fleet.

拥有百架 F35 的强大机队，这些战机是极佳的战斗力倍增器，且配备先进的预警机和运输机队

And most importantly, it has much stronger industrial base especially in respect to metalurgy and engines

更重要的是其工业基础更为雄厚，尤其在冶金和发动机领域优势突出

5) I will place IAF because of strong transport, and force multiplier fleet, plus having advantages of technology in some respects than Korea, such as AWACS, engines, air defence system, helicopters, etc etc

第五选择印度空军，因其强大的运输能力和战力倍增机队，且在预警系统、发动机、防空体系、直升机等技术层面较韩国更具优势

IAF is also at extremely bad position where Indian programs and industry are still maturing, and imports are either extremely expensive or restricted such as F35.

印度空军也陷入了极为不利的境地——本土军工项目与产业仍处于成长期，而进口装备要么价格极其昂贵（如 F-35），要么受到严格限制。

Another problem is horrendous project planning and procurement.

另一个问题在于糟糕的项目规划与采购体系。

So, it will look completely different in 5 years, and completely different in 10, and so on.

因此五年后的局面将截然不同，十年后又会是另一番光景，以此类推。

Yet another problem is due to missiles since best A2A are R77 and MICA, given integration of Meteor with Rafale is now doubted

更严峻的问题来自导弹领域，目前最先进的空对空导弹仅有 R77 和 MICA 可用，而阵风战斗机整合"流星"导弹的计划如今也遭到质疑。

6) Korea because again, strong fighter and AWACS fleet, plus main advantage they have much better project planning and efficiently so they can develop and induct projects much quickly.

6) 韩国同样位列第六，因其拥有强大的战斗机和预警机编队，且核心优势在于更优的项目规划与执行效率，使得其项目研发与列装速度显著领先。

KF21 is a great example of management from what I've read of the history since they understood limitations and went with what they could so they can perfect it later

以 KF-21 为例，据我所了解的发展历程，其项目管理堪称典范——他们清醒认知技术局限，选择务实路径优先实现基础型号，为后续升级预留完善空间。

Feel free to correct, add or subtract without usual trolling

欢迎客观指正或补充，谢绝无意义抬杠

Skywalker7181
I'm not sure....   

这个我倒不确定....

All the internal exercises of the USAF and PLAAF show that when you pit the stealth jets against the non-stealth jets, non-stealth jets always get slaughtered. The results are very lopsided.

美国空军和中国人民解放军的内部演习均表明，当隐形战机与非隐形战机对抗时，非隐形战机总是惨遭碾压。战果呈现一边倒态势。

If PAF could kick IAF's ass on May 7th with only 25 J10Cs, imagine what Israel's 45 F35s, South Korea's 39 F35s and the UK's 37 F35s would do when pit against India Air Force. Not mention that they not only have lots of stealth jets, they also have better AWACS, better datalix, better integration among assets and better missiles.

如果巴基斯坦空军仅凭 25 架 J10C 就能在 5 月 7 日痛击印度空军，那么试想以色列的 45 架 F35、韩国的 39 架 F35 和英国的 37 架 F35 对阵印度空军时会是什么局面。更不用说这些国家不仅拥有大量隐身战机，还配备了更先进的预警机、数据链系统、作战体系整合能力以及导弹技术。

IAF has lots of airfrxs but the truly modern ones are only those 36 Rafales (probably only 32 now) and the integration among its asserts are poor, too.

印度空军拥有大量战机，但真正现代化的仅有那 36 架（现在可能只剩 32 架）阵风战机，且其装备间的协同能力也很差。

I'd venture that in a real combat scenario, IAF probably gets its ass kicked by these air forces.

我敢打赌，在实战中，印度空军很可能会被这些空军力量打得落花流水。

Key_Agent_3039
RAAF is incredibly slept on, they have 24 Super Hornets and 72 F-35s (currently the largest number outside US) and amazing force multipliers like 6 E-7 Wedgetails and 12 growlers. And they have advanced munitions for their fleet like AIM-120Ds, JASSM-ERs, LRASMs

澳大利亚皇家空军（RAAF）被严重低估了，他们拥有 24 架超级大黄蜂和 72 架 F-35（目前是美国以外最大的 F-35 机队），还配备了 6 架 E-7"楔尾"预警机和 12 架"咆哮者"电子战机等强大的力量倍增器。其机队还配备了 AIM-120D 导弹、JASSM-ER 远程导弹和 LRASM 反舰导弹等先进弹药。

I would rate them above the RAF in its current form

我认为他们目前的状态比英国皇家空军（RAF）更胜一筹

DemonLordRoundTable
Israeli Air Force should be somewhere there. Multi front campaigns at such great distances is no small feat.

以色列空军应该能排上号。在如此远的距离上开展多线作战绝非易事。

advocatesparten 
When the USAF is providing the logistic support…

当美国空军提供后勤支援时...

DemonLordRoundTable
They are famous for fast turnarounds; it’s not all US support. 1967 war was won without US help. Though it was long ago but their standards are supreme

他们以快速反应闻名；这并非全靠美国支持。1967 年的战争就是在没有美国援助的情况下获胜的。虽然年代久远，但他们的水准堪称顶尖。

NotTooShahby 
Yeah, I’ve heard bad things about the lack of experience for IDF ground forces, but their air force is top notch. It seems they’ve focused on air domination first and foremost while many militaries focus on ground domination.

确实，我听过关于以色列国防军地面部队缺乏经验的负面评价，但他们的空军绝对一流。看起来他们优先确保制空权，而许多军队更注重地面控制。

torbai 
i don't know who they are but i am sure that there would be 4 air forces to be the next top 3...

我不确定具体是哪些国家，但我敢肯定会有四个空军跻身后面的前三强...

AmericanNewt8
I'd probably rank Israel, Japan, Korea, Germany, Britain all above Russia. Maybe France, maybe Turkey. India has a lot of airfrxs and some nominally shiny ones but doesn't seem to be good at the whole flying business. 

我可能会把以色列、日本、韩国、德国、英国都排在俄罗斯之前。或许还有法国，或许土耳其。印度拥有大量战机，其中一些名义上很先进，但似乎并不擅长飞行这项业务。

BigFly42069
People are really discounting the Pakistani air force by not putting them in the running when they are a mirror image of the USAF and one of the few air forces that have actually fought a peer engagement in the last 20 years.

人们真的低估了巴基斯坦空军，竟然没有将其列入候选名单，而巴空军几乎是美国空军的翻版，并且是过去 20 年里少数真正参与过势均力敌实战的空军之一。

arstarsta 
Iraq fought their peer Iran in 1988 but it didn't help them when fighting the US that hasn't fought a peer since Vietnam/Korea/WW2.

伊拉克在 1988 年与实力相当的伊朗交战，但这并未帮助他们对抗自越战/朝鲜战争/二战以来未经历过同等较量的美军。

Pakistan is using F-16/J-10 that is considered outclassed by F-35.

巴基斯坦使用的是被认为逊色于 F-35 的 F-16/J-10 战机。

SalTez
What about USN?   

美国海军航空兵呢？

advocatesparten 
USN is a naval air arm. Different skill set

美国海军属于海军航空兵体系，作战技能序列不同

SalTez
I guess it depends how much orthodox you are with the Air Force definition. It can be argued that within the criteria set by the OP, USN excels more than most other nominated contenders. At the end of the day, tasks and skill-sets vary significantly among all the contenders.

我认为这取决于对空军定义的严格程度。按照原帖设定的标准，可以说美国海军航空兵比大多数提名竞争者更具优势。毕竟各竞争者的任务定位和技术专长差异显著。

nikkythegreat
If you include them maybe 3 or 4. They have 40 Gen 5 and 600+ gen4. It's arguable if you rank USN or VKS as 3 depending on how much weight you put on bombers and 4.0 gen. 

如果纳入统计或许能排第 3 或 4 名。他们拥有 40 架五代机和 600 多架四代机。根据对轰炸机和 4.0 代战机的权重分配，美国海军航空兵与俄罗斯空天军孰强孰弱存在争议。

US Marine corps has around 200 gen4 and 100+ gen 5, but these are the F35B variants which are not as capable as the USAF F35A variant. Plus they are most likely limited to VL platforms. You could arguably put them right after Russia but thats a stretch, they are probably 6 or 7.

美国海军陆战队航空兵约有 200 架四代机和 100 多架五代机（F35B 型），但其性能不及空军版的 F35A，且很可能受限于垂直起降平台。勉强可排俄罗斯之后，但比较牵强，实际应在第 6 或 7 名。

US army aviation is mostly helicopters.

美国陆军航空兵主要为直升机部队。

Accidental-Genius
Hell the USMC fleet alone could take on most nations. I believe the USMC is the 7th largest “Air Force” on its own.

单是美国海军陆战队的机队就足以抗衡多数国家。据我所知，陆战队自身就是全球第七大"空中力量"。

advocatesparten
Rankings like these are silly as fuck. Since AF have tasks and these aren’t the same. The USAF would struggle mightily to do the tasks the Russian Air Force and air defence does. Protect long borders against powerful opponents. That doesn’t make the USAF bad.

这类排名简直蠢爆了。因为各国空军的任务各不相同。美国空军若执行俄罗斯空军和防空部队的任务——在漫长边境抵御强敌——会极其吃力，但这不代表美国空军不行。

Similarly the UK and RAAF would probably not be able to do the tasks that the PAF does in its own territory and region. PAF certainly won’t be able to do RAAF’s job. Might be able to do some of RAF job. IDF air arm is highly specialised for Israel and useless pretty much anywhere else.

同理，英国皇家空军和澳大利亚空军很可能无法胜任巴基斯坦空军在其本土及周边区域的任务，而巴基斯坦空军也肯定干不了澳大利亚空军的活儿，或许能勉强完成部分英国空军的任务。以色列空军则是为该国高度特化的产物，放到其他地区基本没用。

PLArealtalk
Unironically the RAAF should probably be a contender, if we are looking at "current in service/delivered" capability.

平心而论，若以"现役/已交付"战力为标准，澳大利亚皇家空军（RAAF）确实具备入围实力。

With 72 fully delivered F-35As, 24 twin seat Super Hornets and 12 Growlers, supported by 6 Wedgetails and 7 proper A330 tankers, that is unironically more 5th generation aircraft in current service than... I think almost all of the other nations listed there. Australia also trains very closely with the US, and there's a reason they were able to receive Growlers (a rather sensitive capability).

其现役机队包括 72 架已全部交付的 F-35A、24 架双座型超级大黄蜂和 12 架"咆哮者"电子战机，辅以 6 架"楔尾"预警机和 7 架 A330 多用途加油机——单就第五代战机现役数量而言，已超越...我认为几乎名单上所有其他国家。澳大利亚还与美军保持高度协同训练，这也是其能获准装备"咆哮者"（这项高度敏感的作战能力）的重要原因。

Of course, the total limited fleet size will put the RAAF behind in terms of airfrxs compared to say, Russia, India, Japan or Israel. But it is also simultaneously true that right now Australia technically has more in service 5th gen fighters than the UK, Israel, or Japan, or South Korea (not to mention Russia and France), supported by a modest by but capable fleet of the world's premier/class defining 4.5th gen fighter and the only operator of its dedicated EW variant outside of the US, rounded off by a very capable AEW&C and tanker fleet for its size.

当然，受限于机队总规模，澳空军在飞机数量上仍落后于俄罗斯、印度、日本或以色列等国。但不可否认的是，当前澳大利亚现役五代机数量确实超过英国、以色列、日本或韩国（更不必提俄罗斯和法国），还配备了规模适中却战力强悍的全球顶尖 4.5 代战机（包括美国以外唯一专业电子战改型），并拥有与其体量相称的先进预警机与加油机队作为战力倍增器。

As F-35s are delivered more widely to customers around the world, the RAAF of course will be knocked down a few rungs.

随着 F-35 向全球客户广泛交付，澳空军的排名自然会有所下滑。

IlIIllIlllIIIllI 
Not India.   

印度不可能。

Definitely Israel, and then Britain and France (order interchangeable).

以色列绝对可以，然后是英国和法国（排名可互换）。

Imo if we're going on experience I would place Israel, Britain and France above Russia and maybe China too. 

我认为如果按实战经验来算，我会把以色列、英国和法国排在俄罗斯之前，可能中国之前也一样。

Jazzlike-Tank-4956
RAF is about to beat everyone with their 100 Typhoons who don't even have an AESA radar

英国皇家空军即将凭借他们那 100 架连 AESA 雷达都没有的台风战机打败所有人

IlIIllIlllIIIllI
Typhoon's are being upgraded to Captor-E.

台风战机正在升级为捕手-E 雷达系统。

They also have 40 F-35's.

他们还拥有 40 架 F-35 战机。

Jazzlike-Tank-4956
F35 are divided with Royal Navy

F35 战斗机与英国皇家海军共享配置

By the time those Typhoons get Captor E, rest would have moved even further up, and they've only contacted for 40 jets to be fitted with Captor E

等到这些台风战机装配"捕手-E"雷达时，其他国家的空军将取得更大进展，而且英军仅签约了 40 架装配该雷达的战机

But the fact remains that they only have 100 fighters who still use mechanical radar in this day and age where PESA are considered outdated

但事实是，在相控阵雷达都已过时的今天，他们仅拥有 100 架仍使用机械扫描雷达的战斗机

RAF has never even fired an A2A missile in aggression but we like to delude that they're up there

英国皇家空军从未在实战中发射过空对空导弹，但我们总自欺欺人地认为他们实力强劲

IlIIllIlllIIIllI   
How many air forces have actually fired missiles in A2A combat though? Surely by that metric it would America, Israel, Russia, Pakistan

不过实际在空对空作战中发射过导弹的空军有多少？按这个标准来看，应该是美国、以色列、俄罗斯、巴基斯坦

True-Musician-9554
US Army Air Force and US National Guard Air Force?

美国陆军航空队和美国国民警卫队航空队？

Ldawg03
The RAF simply for prestige and experience. Whilst have a lot of flaws with our combat aircraft (lack of maintenance and spare sorts for example) and a severe lack of airfrxs needed to even respond to a local regional conflict or crisis let alone (god forbid) a near peer advisory like Russia or China, we still have a lot of highly trained pilots and capable aircraft which can’t be discredited. I will admit that we can and should have a much larger and modern RAF. Ideally it would have a combat fleet of at least 100 F-35s (a mix of A, B and C variants) supported by dozens of logistics aircraft (transports and tankers) but also drones.

选择英国皇家空军更多是出于声望和历史积淀的考量。尽管我们的战机存在诸多问题（例如维护不足和备件短缺），甚至严重缺乏应对地区冲突或危机所需的机群规模——更遑论与俄罗斯或中国这样的近似对手抗衡（但愿不会发生）——但我们仍拥有大量训练有素飞行员和性能优异的战机，这点不容否认。必须承认，我们本可以也应当打造一支规模更大、更现代化的皇家空军。理想状态下，这支空军应配备至少 100 架 F-35（包含 A/B/C 三种型号），辅以数十架后勤保障机（运输机与加油机）及无人机支援。

Even though it would cost a lot of money, we should look into buying air launched nuclear weapons from the US to complement our existing sea based deterrent (SSBN’s equipped with Trident SLBM’s). Even though such a move would be politically controversial and receive massive backlash, I have little doubt that the Trump administration would approve of such a deal especially if we became a more active partner in AUKUS

尽管这将耗资巨大，我们仍应考虑从美国采购空射核武器，以补充我们现有的海基威慑力量（配备三叉戟潜射弹道导弹的核潜艇）。尽管此举在政治上会引发争议并遭受强烈反对，但我毫不怀疑特朗普政府会批准这笔交易，尤其是如果我们能在澳英美联盟中成为更积极的合作伙伴。

Of course I am biased towards my home country (though I am a former army cadet) but I stand by my opinion

当然，我对自己祖国有所偏爱（尽管我曾是陆军学员），但我坚持自己的观点。