中国为何赢得电动汽车之战

 
EV sales are going wild in Australia - in 2023 sales doubled and they continue to climb! But the most popular electric vehicle brands include very few of the legacy marques. In fact, just behind Tesla Model Y and Model 3, the Chinese owned electric vehicle brands are gaining significant ground with brands like BYD and MG taking the market by storm. In this episode we ask why and explore how Chinese EVs have captured so much attention and new registrations, why the Australian car market often gets overlooked by global car makers, what else is coming and could Australia ever see the day where it takes up EV manufacturing? !
 
电动汽车在澳大利亚的销量正在疯狂增长--2023年的销量翻了一番，而且还在继续攀升！但是在最受欢迎的电动汽车品牌中，传统品牌寥寥无几。事实上，继特斯拉 Model Y 和 Model 3 之后，中国自主电动汽车品牌正在取得显著的进展，比亚迪和 MG 等品牌席卷了市场。在本期节目中，我们将探讨中国电动汽车为什么吸引了如此多的关注和新注册量，为什么澳大利亚汽车市场常常被全球汽车制造商所忽视，未来还会有哪些新的电动汽车品牌，以及澳大利亚是否有一天会成为电动汽车制造国？!
 
@RickKean
Bought my first EV in December. BYD Seal. Simply the best vehicle I have ever driven with over 40 years of having my drivers licence. I test drove 5 different EV's. Legacy automakers are on notice.
 
十二月份我买了我的第一辆电动车：比亚迪海豹，它是我拥有驾照 40 多年来驾驶过的最好的汽车。我试驾过5款不同的电动车，传统汽车制造商要当心了。
 
@FabioCapela
Here in Brazil, the launch of the BYD Dolphin saw most EVs of similar or smaller sizes drop their prices by up to 15%. I'm very curious as to how the other brands will react to the Seagull (Dolphin Mini here) coming here in February at an even lower price point.
Incidentally, the Dolphin only came here at the end of June and still managed to be the best selling EV in the country for the whole of 2023. A new model becoming the best selling car in its segment in the same year it was released is already impressive; it managing to do that despite being from an almost unknown brand in the country, and having only 6 months of sales to compete with the incumbents which were selling for the whole year, was unheard of.
 
在巴西，比亚迪 "海豚"（Dolphin）上市后，大多数类似或更小尺寸的电动车都降价达 15%左右。我很好奇其他品牌会如何应对将于二月在巴西上市的价格更低的海鸥（迷你海豚）。
顺便提一下，虽然海豚在 6 月底才来到这里，但它仍然成了 2023 年全年国内最畅销的电动汽车。一款新车型在发布当年就成为该细分市场最畅销的车型，这已经令人印象深刻了；尽管它是一个在巴西国内几乎默默无闻的品牌，而且只有 6 个月的销量，却能与全年都在畅销的现有车型竞争，这样的成绩是前所未闻的。
 
@1rjona
What does legacy automakers have to match BYD.? There will be another oil crisis. It will be  like in the 70s when an oil crisis affected Britsh and American automakers and came the Japanese. I see a similar disruption coming with Chinese EVs
 
传统汽车制造商拿什么与比亚迪竞争？现在将会发生另一场石油危机。就像上世纪 70 年代一样，石油危机影响了英国和美国的汽车制造商，日本汽车制造商也受到了影响。我认为中国的电动汽车制造商也将面临类似的危机。
 
@ateiviz
This is what we need as consumers, since BYD launched in Ireland most of the manufacturers have started to drop prices. In my opinion, even at the discounts they've still got a way to go in order to be on par with the standard equipment included with the likes of BYD. VW is a perfect example, dropped prices by 10k for entry models but by the time one is specced up to match BYD you end up putting that back on the price tag.
 
这正是我们消费者所需要的，自从比亚迪在爱尔兰上市以来，大多数制造商都开始降价。在我看来，即使打了折扣，要想与比亚迪的标准配置相提并论，他们也还有很长的路要走。大众就是一个很好的例子，虽然其入门车型的价格下降了 1 万元，但当它的配置想与比亚迪相媲美时，你最终还是要把这些价格加回去。
 
@drxym
BYD isn't doing massive sales in Ireland. I've seen a few BYD taxis but mostly it's MGs of which I own one. SIMI has the sales stats, but it's about 3x as many MGs were sold vs BYD. Ora sold 32 cars in the entire year so it's basically dead. I test drove a BYD Seal after Christmas and it seems like a reasonable car (except for putting the indicators on the wrong side of the stalk vs every other vehicle) and the dealer said they had 50 on backorder. I suspect therefore that the Seal and Dolphin will sell better than the Atto 3 did. But the odd thing about the Seal is it's quite expensive compared to its main rival the Model 3. To put in perspective, the reason I was test driving the Seal was because my wife was thinking of it or a Model 3 and wanted my opinion. In the end she saw Tesla selling a brand new Model Y RWD for €42,000 which is €7000 less than the base spec Seal. So she has ordered that instead.
 
比亚迪在爱尔兰的销量并不大，虽然我见过几辆比亚迪的出租车，但大部分出租车都是名爵，我也有一辆名爵。SIMI有做过销量统计，MG的销量是比亚迪的3倍。Ora全年共售出32辆车，所以它基本上已经死了。圣诞节后，我试驾了一辆比亚迪海豹，它看起来是辆不错的车（除了把指示灯放在了灯杆的错误一侧，不过其他车辆都是如此），经销商说他们有 50 辆车在滞销中。因此我猜测，海豹和海豚的销量会比 Atto 3 好。但奇怪的是与主要的竞争对手 Model 3 相比，海豹的价格相当昂贵。从这个角度来看，我之所以试驾海豹是因为我妻子想买它或 Model 3，想听听我的意见。最后，她看到特斯拉正在销售一款全新的 Model Y RWD，售价为 42,000 欧元，比基本款的海豹还便宜 7000 欧元，于是她就订购了这辆车。
 
@ateiviz
@drxym  very true! The MG4 is a great example and with the Dolphin the likes of the ID3 might get on par sometime soon. I can't remeber is Peugeot or Renault is collaborating with Geely now too so even more options coming to the market in that segment. I'm waiting for a Seal myself and outside of Tesla there's very little comparable choice. There's nothing wrong with the Tesla just comes down to preference of the indivual buyer between the two manufacturers. Hope the MY goes well for yas ��
 
非常正确！MG4 就是一个很好的例子，有了海豚，大众的ID3 可能很快就会和 MG4 看齐。我不记得是标致还是雷诺现在也与吉利合作了，所以在这一细分市场上会有更多的选择。我自己也在等一辆海豹，除了特斯拉之外，它几乎没有可比的选择。选择特斯拉没有错，只是在这两家制造商之间，个人买家的偏好不同而已。
 
@beetman26
@ateiviz  ID.3 is really really cheap in China, with cars like Dolphin entering more markets I would see VW dropping the price of ID.3 really hard
 
ID.3在中国真的很便宜，随着海豚这样的车进入更多市场，我会看到大众把ID.3的价格降得很低。
 
@azzamatic4190
Elon Musk footage from few years back criticising BYD and Chinese electric cars hasn't aged very well especially when  Tesla's are made in China and use BYD batteries
 
埃隆·马斯克几年前批评比亚迪和中国电动汽车的视频已经过时了，尤其是当特斯拉在中国制造并使用比亚迪的电池时。
 
@TD1237
Lol, that's true. Tbf he probably didn't even believe what he was saying. That guy says anything to make gain popuIarity.
 
哈哈，说得没错，他可能根本不相信自己说的话。这家伙为了博取人气，什么话都说得出口。
 
@ewadge
To be honest, when I saw that interview I scoffed also. I remember that BYD model and it was pretty bad. Elon Musk himself has said that BYD will become Tesla’s biggest competitor. I remember an episode of Top Gear with Jeremy Clarkson and James May going to China and driving a slew of Chinese cars. Most of the episode involved them making fun of the Chinese makes but at the end of the episode they said that felt that we would all be purchasing Chinese cars in the future. That future is happening now.
The Biden administrarton has got it and is doing everything it can to increase EV and battery manufacturing in the US. Europe seems to want to moan about protectionism (not that it might not be unfounded) but Europe needs to pull its finger out and increase manufacturing prowess.
 
老实说，当我看到那篇采访时，我也嗤之以鼻。我还记得比亚迪的那款车型非常糟糕。埃隆-马斯克自己也说过，比亚迪将成为特斯拉最大的竞争对手。我记得有一集《Top Gear》，杰里米-克拉克森（Jeremy Clarkson）和詹姆斯-梅（James May）去了中国，他们开了很多中国车。这一集的大部分时间里，他们都在嘲笑中国制造，但在这一集的最后，他们说他们觉得未来我们都会购买中国汽车。这个未来正在发生。
拜登政府已经意识到这一点并正在竭尽全力增加美国的电动汽车和电池生产。欧洲似乎想抱怨保护主义（并非毫无根据），但欧洲需要停止磨蹭并提高制造能力。
 
@radart6037
A great presentation by Simone really well thought out. I can’t believe the negativity in some of the comments by viewers about EVs and sheer ignorance about the quality of Chinese vehicle manufacturing. I don’t know where commentators are getting these ideas but it is not from recent reviews of Chinese vehicles made and written by people whose job it is to critically uate new vehicle releases. Keep up the good work Fully Charged and once again it’s great to hear a review from Australia.
 
西蒙尼的发言非常精彩，考虑得非常周全。我无法相信一些观众对电动汽车的负面评论以及对中国汽车制造质量的纯粹无知。我不知道评论员们是从哪里得到这些观点的，但他们并不是从最近对中国制造的汽车进行的评论中得到这些观点的。《Fullly Charged》请继续努力，很高兴再次听到来自澳大利亚的评论。
 
@crimsontiger6
When we shut down our car industry in Australia we also lost our skills. Now we just modify US barges by changing them over to right-hand drive. Australian design rules for cars need to be dumped too. They were there to protect our car industry. There's no reason we can't do what the Kiwis do and accept a car if it meets UK standards. I don't believe we'll make cars here again. We don't have the national fervour for it anymore. Our politicians and industry leaders are happy to dig up and ship out the raw materials and pocket the loot. We used to be the lucky country now we're just dumb as f**k.
 
当我们关闭澳大利亚的汽车工业时，我们也失去了我们的技能。现在，我们只是把美国的驳船改装成右舵汽车罢了。澳大利亚的汽车设计规则也需要废除，虽然它们的存在是为了保护我们的汽车工业。如果汽车符合英国标准，我们没有理由不能像新西兰人那样接受它。我不相信我们还能在这里生产汽车，我们的国家已不再热衷于此。我们的政客和行业领袖乐于挖掘原材料并运出，然后将赃款收入囊中。我们曾经是幸运的国家，现在却愚蠢至极。
 
@demonwombatofdoom8391
Totally agree. The problem is we are not innovative. We don't invent or produce anything new. The only thing we have been doing is using our land for mining or farming. Mining can only last for so long, and farming? it will be only as good until another country gives a better price. I would love to see Australia put more resources into producing and keeping tech in Australia. I'm not too smart, but maybe an Australian funded university dedicated to STEM that filters into Australian sponsored companies. I mean China has a share in many companies which brings in profit. Might be time that Australians try some China modelling instead of just following the U.S.
 
完全同意。问题是我们没有创新，我们没有发明或生产任何新的东西。我们一直在做的唯一一件事就是利用我们的土地采矿或耕作。采矿只能持续这么长时间，而耕种呢？我希望看到澳大利亚将更多资源用于生产并将技术留在澳大利亚。虽然我不是很聪明，但也许可以建立一所由澳大利亚资助的大学，专门从事科技、工程和数学领域的研究，并将毕业生输送到澳大利亚赞助的公司。我的意思是中国在许多公司中都有股份，从而给他们带来了利润。也许是时候让澳大利亚人尝试一些中国模式而不是一味地追随美国了。
 
@tooltalk
I think it's called resource-curse, often associated with resource rich, yet underdeveloped sub-Saharan Africa -- obviously the petro-rich Norway is an exception here.
 
我认为这就是所谓的资源诅咒，通常与资源丰富但欠发达的撒哈拉以南非洲有关--显然石油资源丰富的挪威是个例外。
 
@rebym
Compared to Canada, Australia is so far ahead of us, our options are so limited and the EVs we can buy are expensive and not at the level of these Chinese brands.  We are not only far behind but our attitudes are getting ever more protectionist.  I'm envious of your market and the future of your market.  The only thing that will wreck your market is trying to build EVs in Australia and putting up tariffs.  Do what you do best and buy your cars from China and you will gain a competitive advantage.
 
与加拿大相比，澳大利亚遥遥领先，我们的选择非常有限，而且我们能买到的电动汽车价格昂贵，根本达不到这些中国品牌的水平。 我们不仅远远落在后面，而且我们的态度也越来越倾向于保护主义。 我很羡慕你们的市场和你们市场的未来。 唯一会破坏你们市场的就是试图在澳大利亚制造电动汽车并征收关税。 做你们最擅长的事，从中国购买汽车，你们将获得竞争优势。
 
@thedarksideofevan4690
There are many reasons why it's hard for Australians to manufacture cars:
- "High salary", As a developed country, Australia has a high average salary and shorter working hours, which raise the cost of manufacturing.
- "Dutch disease", Australia exports a lot of natural resources, which leads to an unusually high exchange rate for the Australian dollar. It reduces the competitiveness of industrial exports.
- "Smaller scale", Australia's auto market is not large - which leads to a weaker scale effect and higher margin cost on manufacturing.
In addition, there are many more reasons regarding education, immigration policy, culture, etc.
So for now, it seems that maintaining stable trade relations, improving EV laws, and increasing investment in grid-charging facilities are favorable choices.
Australia has the opportunity to realize the most advanced energy supply system (through EVs, digital grid, and renewable energy) as soon as possible, to operate solutions and services for foreign countries to profit.
 
澳大利亚人难以制造汽车的原因有很多：
- 高薪"，作为发达国家，澳大利亚的平均工资较高，工作时间较短，这提高了制造成本。
- 荷兰病"，澳大利亚出口了大量的自然资源，者导致澳元汇率异常坚挺，这降低了工业出口的竞争力。
- "规模较小"，澳大利亚的汽车市场并不大，这导致规模效应较弱，制造业的成本较高。
此外，还有教育、移民政策、文化等诸多方面的原因。
因此，目前看来，保持稳定的贸易关系、完善电动汽车法律、增加电网充电设施投资是有利的选择。
澳大利亚有机会尽快实现最先进的能源供应系统（通过电动汽车、数字电网和可再生能源），为外国提供盈利的解决方案和服务。
 
@narvuntien
I think the best case for Australia is battery production, that I think will be exported to Thailand/Malaysia and the USA (since we have a free trade agreement that still gives subsidise in the USA) to build the vechicals. We have high labour cost (yay) which makes it hard to compete but we have great universities and a highly educated populace. So highly automated manufacturing like battery manufacturing can happen but car production requires far more workers.
 
我认为澳大利亚的最佳选择是生产电池，我认为这将出口到泰国/马来西亚和美国（因为我们签订了自由贸易协定，美国仍给予补贴）以建造汽车。虽然我们的劳动力成本很高（耶），这使得我们很难在竞争中取胜，但我们拥有一流的大学和受过高等教育的人口。因此，像电池制造这样的高度自动化生产可以实现，但汽车生产却需要更多的工人。
 
@888YangJi
China started its foundemental research in EV techonology since Project 863, a set of pilot research projects announced in march(3rd month) 1986. Which means China had been working on this for almost 40 years.
Project 863 research area includes mainly Biotechnology,
Space, Information technology, Laser technology,Automation
Energy, New materials
later add on : Telecommunications (1992)
Marine technology (1996)
 
中国从 1986 年 3 月公布的 "863 计划 "就开始了电动汽车技术的基础研究，这意味着中国在这方面的研究已有近 40 年的历史。
863 计划的研究领域主要包括生物技术、航天、信息技术、激光技术、自动化、能源、新材料，后来又增加了电信技术（1992 年）和海洋技术（1996 年）。
 
@tooltalk
>>  Which means China had been working on this for almost 40 years. <<
Can you name some outcomes of this 40 years research?   I don't see any meaningful contribution in the EV industry coming from China beyond the past 10 years, and much of it stolen from the Japanese and the Korean.
 
>> 这意味着中国在这方面的研究已有近 40 年的历史。<<
你能说出这 40 年研究的成果吗？我不认为中国在过去 10 年中对电动汽车行业做出了任何有意义的贡献，因为其中大部分都是从日本和韩国偷来的。
 
@TD1237
@tooltalk  If that's what your verdict is, then there really isn't any need to expIain to you. You'd just d eny any real information in favour of what suits you best.
 
如果这就是你的结论，那就真的没必要向你解释了，因为你只会忽略任何真正的信息而选择最适合你的东西。
 
@xlerb_again_to_music7908
To get market share, Tesla introduced really good EVs for top $$$ prices, outside of normal ICE cars. They did well, so other manufacturers rushed in to copy Tesla. However that exposed the budget sector (= normal ICE car prices) ready to be snapped up by anyone able. So guess what happened?
All I need, personally, is a decent reliable A to B car. I don't care about gadgets, I don't want wall to wall computers and infotainment; I want to go from A to B at a sensible price in an everyday car. Would be nice if the sound system is good; thats it. I can wind up and down my own windows.
Building sensible everyday EVs is what the Chinese are now doing. Other manufacturers - can stop their price gouging or collapse.
 
为了获得市场份额，特斯拉在普通内燃机汽车之外，推出了真正物美价廉的电动汽车。他们做得很好，因此其他制造商也纷纷效仿特斯拉。然而，这就暴露出了在经济型汽车领域（=内燃机汽车的正常价格）随时可能被任何有能力的人抢购一空的可能。你猜后来发生了什么？
就我个人而言，我只需要一辆能够从 A 地到 B 地的可靠汽车。我不在乎什么小玩意儿，也不需要满墙的电脑和信息娱乐系统；我只想用一辆价格合理的日常用车从 A 地开往 B 地。如果音响系统好一些就更好了，仅此而已。我可以自己开关车窗。
制造合理的日常电动车正是中国人现在正在做的事情。其他制造商要么停止哄抬价格，要么倒闭。
 
@drxym
It's eminently stoppable assuming other auto manufacturers pull their fingers out of their backsides and produce compelling vehicles to compete with what China is making. I have an MG 4 in Ireland and there was simply nothing else out there for the same price and performance. The nearest Euro vehicles, things like the ID.3 or Renault Megane cost more money with worse spec so why am I as a consumer going to buy those other cars? I actually wanted a Megane until I saw the price and how the RHD version had a gimped screen and so I changed my mind. That said, I don't see BYD cars being as good value as they should be. Cars like the Atto 3 aren't the same value proposition as an MG 4 and that probably explains why there are so few of them in Ireland. And the Ora brand is basically dead as a doornail - they didn't even sell 50 cars despite extensive advertising - again too expensive. When I collected my MG last May the dealer told me he knew someone who had hundreds of Oras in stock in every spec because nobody was buying them. I wonder what happened to them now that 2024 has rolled around.
 
如果其他汽车制造商停止磨蹭，生产出能与中国制造相抗衡的令人信服的汽车，那么这种现象是完全可以阻止的。我在爱尔兰有一辆名爵 4，在同等价格和性能的情况下，你根本找不到其他车型。最接近的欧洲汽车（如 ID.3 或雷诺梅甘娜）的价格更高，规格更差。作为消费者，我为什么要购买这些其他汽车呢？实际上，我也曾想买梅甘娜，但看到它的价格和 RHD 版本的屏幕，我改变了主意。话虽如此，但我认为比亚迪汽车的性价比并不高，像 Atto 3 这样的车型不如 MG 4 值得，这也许就是为什么在爱尔兰很少有这样的车型的原因。而 Ora 品牌基本上已经死了--尽管做了大量广告，但他们甚至连 50 辆车都没卖出去--还是太贵了。去年 5 月，当我取回我的 MG 时，经销商告诉我他认识一个人，因为没人买，所以他有几百辆各种规格的 Ora库存。我想知道 2024 年已经过去了，他们现在怎么样了。
 
@catherinegrimes2308
The Chinese prefer to have a lot of space for rear passengers and this leads to a smaller boot. This is the case with the Ora Cat and it is expensive, weird looking and has an impractical boot, so nobody wants it. The BYD Dolphin has room in the back but the boot is a little bit on the small side, but it will sell because it is such a good car. It is hard for these manufacturers because they have to start from almost nothing. MG already had a dealer network so is easier to sell its cars. Also the MG was tuned in the UK for European markets and that certainly helped. I have seen loads of MG4 EV cars in the UK with only Tesla cars being more popular.
There is certainly a market for EVs if the price, specification and quality is right.
I will probably buy the Dolphin next year.
 
中国人喜欢为后排乘客留出较大的空间，这就导致后备箱较小。欧拉猫就是这种情况，它价格昂贵，外形怪异，后备箱也不实用，所以没人要。比亚迪海豚（BYD Dolphin）的后排空间很大，但后备箱有点小，但它会卖得很好，因为它是一辆好车。对这些制造商来说，这很难，因为他们几乎是白手起家。MG 已经有了一个经销商网络，因此更容易销售。此外，MG 在英国针对欧洲市场进行了调整，这无疑也有帮助。我在英国看到过大量 MG4 电动汽车，只有特斯拉汽车比它更受欢迎。
如果价格、规格和质量合适，电动汽车肯定有市场。
我可能会在明年购买海豚。