中国歼-20能在狗斗中击败美国F-35吗？

Jamie Wang
Without a doubt, Yes.
Between F-15 and F-16, F-15 is the air superior one.
毫无疑问，是的。
在F-15和F-16之间，F-15是空中优势战机。

Unlike the F-4, the F-15 was designed for air superiority with little consideration for a ground-attack role; the F-15 Special Project Office opposed the idea of F-15s performing interdiction, giving rise to the phrase "Not a pound for air to ground."
与F-4不同，F-15是为空中优势而设计的，几乎不考虑对地攻击角色；F-15特别项目办公室反对将其用于拦截任务，由此产生了“不为对地攻击多花一磅重量”的说法。


F-15 is much bigger which means bigger fuel tank, better avionics, and more engines. These are the signs of air-superiority.
F-15体积更大，意味着更大的油箱、更先进的航电系统和更多发动机。这些都是空中优势的体现。


Same rule applies to F-22 and F-35.
同样的规则适用于F-22和F-35。

As a matter of fact, F-35 is not the successor of F-22, but a budget replacement and a result of compromise.
事实上，F-35并非F-22的继任者，而是预算妥协下的替代品。

F-35 has only one engine because it has to be able to take-off vertically, and that’s only possible when there is only 1 engine. In order to provide enough thrust, the bypass ratio of the engine must be higher.
F-35仅配备单发动机，因为它需要实现垂直起降，而单发动机是必要前提。为提供足够推力，其发动机涵道比必须更高。

High bypass ratio means bigger thrust, but lower high altitude and high speed performace, and lower acceleration ability.
高涵道比意味着更大推力，但会牺牲高空高速性能及加速能力。


Comparing to J-20, F-35 has zero chance to win in a dogfight.
与歼-20相比，F-35在狗斗中毫无胜算。

Not to mention the much bigger J-20 has better radar, which means that J-20 wouldn’t give F-35 the chance to enter the dogfight stage. It would just launch the missile 100KM away and leave, F-35 wouldn’t be able to see what J-20 has just done.
更不用说体型更大的歼-20拥有更先进的雷达，这意味着歼-20根本不会给F-35进入狗斗阶段的机会。它会在100公里外发射导弹后撤离，而F-35甚至无法察觉歼-20的行动。


Qi Chen
What kind of dogfight?
什么样的狗斗？

Real world dogfights mean when the two aircraft are 30km from each other, J-20 will be launching its closer quarter combat missiles (likely PL-10). It is by far the most advanced close quarter combat missiles with at least 65G of acceleration, so it will be able to shoot down F-35 quite easily while evading F-35’s counter attack quite easily due to much faster air speed, flight ceiling and maneuverability.
真实世界的狗斗意味着当两机相距30公里时，歼-20会发射其近距格斗导弹（很可能是PL-10）。这是目前最先进的近距导弹，拥有至少65G的加速度，因此能轻松击落F-35，同时凭借更快的空速、更高升限和更强机动性轻易规避F-35的反击。

On the other hand, if it is Hollywood/Bollywood style TV shows, then J-20 can’t win that kind of fight. Duh, in those movies, missiles generally has less than 100 meters of range and can’t hit the broadside of a barn, so aircraft gotta shoot at each other with autocannons.
反之，如果是好莱坞/宝莱坞风格的电视剧，那歼-20赢不了这种战斗。毕竟那些电影里导弹射程通常不足100米且命中率惨不忍睹，战机只能靠机炮互射。

And J-20 don’t have any autocannons. Why should they? It is an aircraft made for real world combat, so why carry the extra weight of something it will never use in any realistic situation?
而歼-20根本没有装机炮。何必呢？它是为真实战场设计的战机，为何要背负永远不会在实战中使用的额外重量？


Kurt Tesch
Just no. The real answer is that with HOBs missiles, both aircraft would end up dead in a quaint “ dogfight “.
完全错误。真相是：一旦使用离轴发射导弹（HOBs），两架战机在所谓的“狗斗”中只会同归于尽。

Qi Chen
Pretty sure I have read F-22’s HOBs missiles have limited field, both due to equipment and processing power limitation.
我确信曾读过F-22的离轴发射导弹受限于设备和处理能力，有效范围有限。

F-35’s HOBs missile capability is actually much better than F-22’s. F-35’s main issue is that it is slow as hell:
F-35的离轴导弹能力实际远胜F-22。其核心问题在于速度极慢：

The Pentagon will have to live with limits on F-35’s supersonic flights
五角大楼不得不接受F-35超音速飞行的限制

Hence why I think despite it being only a PPT, F-47 at least looks to be having the right idea. It is looked like a fifth generation version of the Chinese J-10, which means it will be a cheap, limited range, but good air superiority fighter, which is something US desperately needs right now.
因此我认为，尽管只是PPT概念机，F-47至少思路正确。它像是中国歼-10的五代版本，即廉价、航程有限但空优性能出色的战机，而这正是美国当前急需的。

BTW, one of the prominent feature of Pakistan’s J-10CE is the HOBs missile ability and those J-10CE are equipped with PL-10E missile (export version of PL-10). It’s just that in the recent May 7th air battle, none of the Indian aircraft got close enough for PL-10E to make a show case.
顺便一提，巴基斯坦J-10CE的突出特点就是离轴导弹能力，且这些战机配备了PL-10E导弹（PL-10的出口版）。只是在5月7日的空战中，印度战机均未进入PL-10E的展示射程。

Kurt Tesch
Dogfighting happens at subsonic speeds. The question addressed a hypothetical F-35 vs J-20 dogfight. Again, both aircraft would likely die. At close ranges its extremely unlikely a J-20 will.outspeed or out maneuver an IR homing missile. Same goes for an F-35.
狗斗发生在亚音速环境下。这个问题假设了F-35与歼-20的狗斗场景。重申：两机很可能同归于尽。在近距离范围内，歼-20极难速度压制或机动规避红外制导导弹，F-35亦然。

Peter Joe
So this is just a fantasy about an unknown enemy. In actual combat, the J20 will not engage in dogfights at all. It can be seen from PL15 that the J20 will launch missiles from 200 kilometers away, and then turn around and disappear into the air.
所以这只是对未知敌人的幻想。实战中歼-20根本不会参与狗斗。从PL-15导弹可知，歼-20会在200公里外发射导弹，随后转向消失于空中。

Bora Tas
I will stay specific to the question. Yes, it can. It has superior kinematics in almost every single way being a delta-canard design with a much higher thrust and a lower wing loading. Also, the F-35 cannot carry the AIM-9X internally. An F-35 configured for close combat would have a lot higher RCS than the J-20 too.
我会严格围绕问题回答。是的，它可以。作为鸭翼三角翼设计，歼-20在几乎所有动能指标上都占优——推力更大、翼载荷更低。此外，F-35无法内置AIM-9X导弹。且配置近战的F-35雷达反射截面（RCS）远大于歼-20。

Derick
in 2025 and especially after the Pakistani trashing of Indian airforce its absurd and ignorant to mention dogfighting.
到2025年，尤其在巴基斯坦碾压印度空军后，再提狗斗既荒谬又无知。

Michael Benton
Properly fought with the intended fire support (AWACS), a J-20 pilot never sees an F-35; the kill shot comes from beyond the horizon. The F-35 isn’t designed to dogfight; American military tactics has moved beyond close-quarters fighting to fire-and-forget missiles from beyond the horizon.
在预警机等火力支援体系下，歼-20飞行员根本不会看见F-35；击杀来自视距之外。F-35本就不是为狗斗设计的；美军战术已超越近距格斗，转向视距外发射后不管导弹。

The J-20 is like bringing a knife to a gunfight.
让歼-20参与狗斗如同持刀参加枪战。

Now if one can neutralize the support for a sortie of F-35s and force them into a dogfight, then what you posit may be true.
但如果能压制F-35编队的体系支援并迫使它们进入狗斗，你的假设才可能成立。

That said, the Americans aren’t going to fight that way if they can help it.
话说回来，只要有可能，美国人绝不会这样作战。

Xb Liu
What a stupid and ignorant question! It seems that you know nothing about China's fighter jets except for their names.
多么荒谬而无知的问题！你似乎除了名字外对中国战机一无所知。


The main targets of the J20 are aerial refueling aircraft and early warning aircraft. Its function is to disrupt the enemy's air command system, causing chaos among the enemy's fighter jets. The J20 is not designed for close-range combat. The attack range of the PL17 missile it carries is 200-300 kilometers. Usually, before you even notice the J20, the missile has already hit you.
歼-20的主要目标是加油机和预警机，其作用是摧毁敌方空中指挥体系，引发敌机混乱。它并非为近战设计，所携PL-17导弹射程达200-300公里。通常在你发现歼-20前，导弹就已命中。

The J16 is our heavy fighter aircraft for air combat. It can carry a large number of different types of missiles within a range of 200 kilometers and can attack more than 10 opponents at once. Sorry, at this distance, you still couldn't see us on the radar and were shot down.
歼-16是我们的空战重型战机，能在200公里内携带大量各型导弹同时攻击超10个目标。抱歉，在这个距离上你仍无法从雷达发现我们并被击落。

J10C, here, refers to the kind of children who can't even be allowed to sit at the table for meals. Of course, this relatively outdated fighter jet is also our main export model. This outdated fighter jet is sufficient to deal with F22 and F35. If you don't believe it, please refer to the air battle between India and Pakistan. How did the Rafale fighter jet get shot down? If it weren't for Pakistan's restraint, then India could have been shot down with over 10 fighter jets. It carries the export version PL15 missile with an attack range of 150-180 kilometers. This is far beyond the range that you can detect.
至于歼-10C，在这里相当于连饭桌都不让上的小孩。当然这款相对过时的战机也是我们的主力出口型号，它已足够应对F22和F35。不信请参考印巴空战：阵风战机怎么被击落的？若非巴方克制，印度当时可能被击落超10架战机。它配备出口版PL-15导弹，攻击范围150-180公里——这远超出你们的探测范围。

As for the J36 and J50, they belong to the sixth-generation fighter jets. Don't even think about engaging them in combat. The maximum flight range of the J36 is 6,000 kilometers, and its top speed exceeds 6 Mach. It can carry more than 10 PL21 missiles and has an attack range of 500 kilometers. One J36 can carry 10 unmanned aircraft at the same time, attacking over 100 enemy fighter jets. It can also carry Dongfeng missiles to directly attack the aircraft carrier battle group. Fear not, except for the US aircraft carrier battle group, you won't see the J36 launching an attack against you.
至于歼-36和歼-50，它们属于第六代战机。别妄想与之交战。歼-36最大航程6000公里，极速超6马赫，可携带10枚以上PL-21导弹（攻击范围500公里），单机同时搭载10架无人机攻击超100架敌机，还能携带东风导弹直接打击航母战斗群。别担心，除了美国航母战斗群，你们根本没机会见到歼-36对你们发动攻击。

Fred Gibbs
Only one way to find out for sure and I don’t want to go down that road. Any other answer is at best a guess, and at worst partisan bravado.
唯一确认的方法只有实战，而我不愿看到那一步。其他答案往好了说是猜测，往坏了说是偏执的吹嘘。

Stats can’t tell the whole story, only full and multiple combat can. A single action only tells the skill of the pilots, only multiple combat in varied conditions can tell the truth.
数据不能说明一切，唯有全面多次的实战可以。单次行动仅体现飞行员技术，多种条件下的多次战斗才能揭示真相。

凛冬将至
In a one-on-one scenario:
在一对一情况下：

The J-20 is a dedicated air superiority 5th-generation fighter jet with all-aspect stealth (utilizing plasma stealth technology, though its frontal stealth performance is slightly inferior to the F-35). In other aspects—such as radar, range, and speed—it outperforms the F-35. The F-35, by contrast, is a multi-role 5th-generation fighter jet; while its frontal stealth is slightly better than the J-20, its side stealth and engine nozzle stealth are clear weaknesses. The J-20’s radar can detect the F-35 at a longer distance, enabling it to "detect the enemy first and attack the enemy first." It will launch a beyond-visual-range (BVR) attack with the PL-15 missile and then withdraw immediately. obxtively speaking, the J-20 has a higher probability of winning.
歼-20是专为空优设计的五代机，具备全向隐身（采用等离子隐身技术，但正面隐身略逊F-35），雷达、航程、速度等均优于F-35。而F-35作为多用途五代机，正面隐身稍强，但侧向及尾喷管隐身明显薄弱。歼-20雷达能在更远距离发现F-35，实现"先敌发现、先敌攻击"，使用PL-15导弹进行超视距打击后立即撤离。客观而言，歼-20胜率更高。

In a systematic confrontation:
体系对抗中：

Naturally, between the J-20 and the F-35, whichever operates on its own home turf will secure victory. Unfortunately for the United States, the area within the scope of the Second Island Chain seems to be China’s home turf...
自然是谁的主场谁赢。对美国不幸的是，第二岛链内似乎是中国的主场...

Fred Gibbs
And all that is nice, but like I said only sustained combat can tell if any of that works, but if you read the answer, I am never confident on any weapon system that isn’t combat tested. So unless you can show where both aircraft have sustained combat against each other, you are guessing at best and partisan bravado at worst.
说得很好，但如我所言唯有持续实战能验证这些理论。如果你仔细读我的回答，我从不信任未经实战检验的武器系统。除非你能展示两机持续交战的历史，否则往最好说是猜测，往最坏说是偏执吹嘘。

Dawei Chen
if you are driving a stealth fighter which have stealth loyal drone and 200km range AA missiles. your radar can find enemy stealth fighter hundred miles away before enemy fighter find you. you can let your drone fire the missiles a hundred kms ahead your fighter, stay at safe location and watch your enemy became a firework.
如果你驾驶着拥有隐身忠诚僚机和200公里空对空导弹的隐身战机，你的雷达能在敌机发现你之前于百英里外锁定对方。你可以让无人机在战机前方100公里处发射导弹，自己待在安全区域欣赏敌机变成烟花。

so why you will sext dogfight? because your fighter have better Maneuverability? No, because you stupid.
那你为什么要狗斗？因为战机机动性更好？不，因为你蠢。

Dominik Schachtsiek
Could we please stop to make up situations which are unlikely to happen?
我们能不能不要再编造那些不太可能发生的情景了？

But even though- the F-35 is not designed to be a dog-fighter- but it is designed to hold itself well. It has a bigger turn radius as a F-16 but a higher angle of attack. It is a good dogfighter.
但即便如此，F-35本就不是为狗斗设计的——但它确实能很好地自卫。其转弯半径大于F-16，但攻角更大，仍是优秀的格斗机。

But in Red Flag aggressors (opponents) complaint that they never seen the Lightnings coming! Hence they had no chance…
但在红旗军演中，红军（对手）抱怨根本看不到F-35出现！所以他们毫无机会...

The J-20’s stealth capabilities aren’t effective- that’s easy to analyze! But what most people don’t see: it is heavy and big. The performance stats are also probably not current figures but projected figures which might become reality with new jet engine upgrades!
歼-20的隐身能力并不有效——这很容易分析！但大多数人没看到：它又重又大。性能数据可能并非当前值而是预测值，需待新发动机升级才能实现！

So yes- there are situations where a clearly inferior plane can win in a dog fight. But no- if it is an equal fight the J-20 would not have a whisper of a chance!
是的，存在劣势战机赢下狗斗的情况。但不——如果是公平对抗，歼-20毫无胜算！

Albert
The F-35 and the J-20 should never be in a "close dogfight." Both planes are too expensive and too valuable to waste them on a tactical situation that reduces their kill ratios under 2:1. The pack of F-35s should be able to see the J-20s from far enough out to get a first and second shot off before the J-20s know that they are in a fight. It will all happen at Beyond Visual Range (BVR). The F-35s and J-20s will be in groups of fighters that help each other find the enemy, target the enemy, and fire on the enemy. The group strategy will prevent dogfights or Within Visual Range (WVR) engagements.
F-35与歼-20绝不应陷入"近距狗斗"。两者都过于昂贵珍贵，不能浪费在会让击杀比低于2:1的战术环境中。F-35编队应能在足够远距离发现歼-20，在对方察觉前完成首轮甚至次轮攻击。这一切都发生在超视距范围。F-35和歼-20将以编队形式相互协同发现、锁定并攻击敌人，集群策略将避免狗斗或视距内交战。