无惧制裁 印度8月份购买了200万桶/日的俄罗斯石油

Low_Map4314
lol, all Europe has to do is stop buying this oil from India. Instead, despite knowing its source, Europe continues to buy.. which proves, talk is cheap. Everyone’s a hypocrite!
Ultimately, they are a country on the other side of the world. They are not obligated to do what is in ‘Europe’s’ best interest - that is Europe’s job.
Expecting otherwise is silly and naive.

哈哈，欧洲只要不从印度买俄罗斯石油就行了。但实际上，明知道来源，欧洲还是在买……这就证明了口头说说毫无意义。人人都是伪君子！
归根结底，印度是地球另一边的国家，他们没有义务去做“符合欧洲利益”的事——那是欧洲自己的责任。
期待别的情况，本身就是愚蠢而天真的。

madnessone1
Europes best interest is to sanction oil from India so that companies won't buy it.

对欧洲最有利的做法就是制裁来自印度的石油，这样公司就不会去买了。

PurpleMclaren
And then you end up paying more to fill your car/get food, groceries dont just arrive at a supermarket with magic, it takes gas.

然后结果就是你加油要花更多钱，买菜要花更多钱。日用品可不是凭空出现在超市里的，它需要运输，而运输就得用油。

JarJarBot-1
That would be the sacrifice that is made to help Ukraine fight Russia. You pay a little bit more for your food and they send all their men to die on the front lines fighting Russia. If not then maybe you should switch the saying to We Stand With Ukraine as Long as We Aren’t Inconvenienced in Any Way.

那就是为了帮助乌克兰抵抗俄罗斯所要做出的牺牲。你只需要为食物多付一点钱，而乌克兰他们却要把所有的男人送去前线为抗击俄罗斯而死。如果你连这一点不便都不愿意承受，那就把口号改成——“我们支持乌克兰，只要这不会在任何方面让我们感到不方便。”

PurpleMclaren
If you sanction oil then the price of everything will go up where you live.

如果你制裁石油，那么你所在地方的一切东西价格都会上涨。

madnessone1
HMM let me think for a second... Do I prefer slightly higher prices or fighting in the swamp at the east of Finland against Russia three years from now?
I'll choose slightly higher prices, thank you very much.

嗯，让我想一下……我要选择稍微高一点的物价，还是三年后在芬兰东部的沼泽里和俄罗斯人作战？
谢谢了，我还是选择稍微高点的物价。

Sumeru88
Even US hasn’t done that. The 50% tariff imposed by US on India does not apply to Petroleum Products (or any Energy purchases). Refined Petrochemicals produced from Russian crude in India can still flow into US at the 5% baseline tariff as it always has. In fact we may see an increase of this to offset the drop in other goods like fabrics, textiles, diamonds etc.

就连美国都没有那样做。美国对印度征收的 50% 关税 并不适用于石油产品（或任何能源采购）。由俄罗斯原油在印度炼制的石化产品依然可以像往常一样以 5% 的基准关税 流入美国。事实上，我们可能还会看到相关进口增加，以弥补像纺织品、钻石之类其他商品出口的下滑。

RobertSpringer
The entire point of the price cap was that the Russians would lose out on valuable oil revenue by having the Indians refine their cheap below market rate stuff and then sell it to Europe, without that European oil prices would be much higher

价格上限的整个意义就在于让俄罗斯失去宝贵的石油收入，因为印度人用低于市场价的廉价石油炼油后再卖给欧洲。如果没有这个机制，欧洲的油价会高得多。

HugaBoog
Europe has to grow out of the mindset that its problems are the world's problems but the world's problems are not Europe's problems.
S Jaishankar

欧洲必须摆脱一种心态——“欧洲的问题就是全世界的问题，而全世界的问题却不是欧洲的问题。”
——苏杰生（S. Jaishankar）

lokethedog
I also think europe needs to consider what the costs and benefits are to selling weapons to India, such as the recent Rafale-deal. Yes, on one hand, it might be good for the european arms industry. But on the other hand, we're transfering technology to a country which has some degree of military cooperation with Russia. Is this really in the best interest if Europe?
The oil matters a lot right now, but I think there might be so many issues where the default mode of thinking in europe is basically "if this is good for india, then it's good for europe, democracy and the world". Not sure if that's true or relevant any more, especially in the long term.

我也觉得欧洲需要认真考虑一下向印度出售武器的得失，比如最近的法国“阵风”战机合同。一方面，这对欧洲军工产业当然有好处。但另一方面，我们实际上是在把技术转让给一个与俄罗斯有一定军事合作的国家。这真的符合欧洲的最佳利益吗？
石油在当下确实非常重要，但我认为问题远不止石油。欧洲的默认思维模式几乎是：只要对印度有利，那就是对欧洲、对民主、对全世界有利。我不确定这种想法在长期内是否依然正确，甚至是否还相关。

grchelp2018
India's position and actions have been consistent for decades now - that's why they continue to be in the unique position where they get to deal with all sides. Its not just their Russia-West ties. But even stuff like Israel being good with India and having military cooperation even though India has friendly relations with Iran also.

印度的立场和行动几十年来一直都很一致——这也是为什么他们能处于独特位置，与各方都保持往来。不仅是俄罗斯和西方国家的关系，就连以色列也与印度保持军事合作，而印度同时又与伊朗维持友好关系。

lokethedog
Absolutely. It's not India that has changed, it's the world order. In fact, the issue is that Indias actions and position is perfectly in line with a multipolar world order, it does not need to change anything. It's clearly Europe that needs to change it's policies. We should be looking at india for inspiration, they have been playing this game for decades, just as you say.

完全同意。其实不是印度变了，而是世界格局变了。事实上，印度的做法和立场完全契合一个多极化的世界秩序，他们不需要做任何改变。真正需要调整政策的，显然是欧洲。我们应该向印度学习，他们几十年来一直这样玩，而现在世界才逐渐变成这个样子。

RGV_KJ
India’s dependency on Russian arms and ammunition has declined over time. India’s defence ties with France and US have increased over the years. With US-India ties worsened due to 50% tariffs on India, I expect India to strike more military deals with France. 
France and India have had military ties for decades. France is the only major country in Europe with an independent foreign policy especially on defence. This has been the case for decades. India has no record of ever transferring French technology to Russia which India knows is getting closer to China, India’s biggest adversary.  
Oil is a finite resource. Biden administration allowed India to sell oil to Europe to undercut Russia’s profits. This arrangement served Europe and India’s interests. This helped ensure global prices remained stable. With more sanctions on Russia, oil prices are likely to go up quite a bit. Iran is already heavy sanctioned. Trump wants to sell oil to Europe and India. He doesn’t care about keeping prices stable. He’s not a rational actor at all. You can’t expect Europe or India to not act in their respective interests. Europe’s goal is to keep oil prices low. So is India’s. 

印度对俄罗斯武器和弹药的依赖随着时间推移已经下降。印度和法国、美国的防务关系这些年来不断增加。随着美印关系因美国对印度征收 50% 关税 而恶化，我预计印度会和法国签订更多军事合同。
法国和印度的军事合作已持续数十年。法国是欧洲唯一一个在防务方面真正保持独立外交政策的大国，这几十年来一直如此。印度从未有过将法国技术转移给俄罗斯的记录，印度很清楚俄罗斯正在逐渐靠近其最大敌人——中国。
石油是有限资源。拜登政府允许印度向欧洲出售石油，以削弱俄罗斯的利润。这种安排既符合欧洲利益，也符合印度利益，同时有助于确保全球油价稳定。随着对俄罗斯的更多制裁，油价可能会大幅上涨。伊朗早已深受制裁。特朗普想把石油卖给欧洲和印度，他根本不在乎维持价格稳定。他根本不是个理性的参与者。你不能指望欧洲或印度不按照各自利益行事。欧洲的目标是维持低油价，印度的目标也是如此。

Rapa2626
Buying russian oil from india is actually cheaper and still does achieve desired effect of strangling russian economy. Because russians have to sell it for pennies over extraction cost while for europe they were getting a full price and actually good profit margins.
Just in case its not clear what I mean- if russian oil costs 50 dollars to extract(imaginary figure) and sells for 100, thats 50 profit, now if they are forced to sell it for 60 because no one else is buying for more, they lose 40% of their revenue but 80% of their profit.

通过印度购买俄罗斯石油实际上更便宜，而且依然能达到扼杀俄罗斯经济的效果。因为俄罗斯人不得不以接近开采成本的低价出售石油，而卖给欧洲时，他们本来可以拿到全价并获得可观利润。
为了说明清楚——假设俄罗斯石油开采成本是 50 美元（虚构数字），卖 100 美元就是 50 美元利润。现在如果没人愿意出更高价，他们被迫以 60 美元卖出，那就损失了 40% 的收入，但实际上是损失了 80% 的利润。

parikhadi31
India is taking its own side. Indian population is combined population of Europe, North America and South America. They have their energy needs. India is historically buyer of Middle East oil and Europe is buyer of Russian oil but after Russia-Ukraine war Europe moved towards Middle East for their oil requirements. So now it’s a competition of Middle Eastern oil in the market and that will increase oil price in all over the world. India is not in position to increase the oil prices for third countries war. That’s why they choose there the void is which is Russian oil and that is fair. Europe also put a cap on Russian oil prices and India followed that cap. So India is legally purchasing Russian oil.
Now you can discuss the morality but then India will ask you did you stop doing business with Pakistan after deadly terrorist attack on India and followed by conflict and even after providing tonnes of proof that Pakistan is an epicentre of global terrorism?
If Europe stays silent while events affect India, why should India react when events affect Europe?

印度走的是自己的路。印度的人口总和相当于欧洲、北美和南美的总人口。他们有自己的能源需求。历史上，印度主要从中东买油，而欧洲主要买俄罗斯油。但在俄乌战争之后，欧洲转向中东满足自己的石油需求。于是全球市场上对中东石油的竞争加剧，这推高了全世界的油价。
印度没办法因为第三国的战争而推高油价，所以他们选择填补那个空缺——也就是俄罗斯石油，这是合理的。欧洲还给俄罗斯石油设了价格上限，而印度也遵守了这个上限。所以印度是在合法购买俄罗斯石油。
至于你要谈道德的话，那印度就会问：在印度发生严重恐袭、随后的冲突，以及印度提供了大量证据证明巴基斯坦是全球恐怖主义中心之后，你们欧洲有停止和巴基斯坦做生意吗？
如果欧洲在影响印度的事件上保持沉默，那为什么印度要在影响欧洲的事件上采取行动呢？

Successful_Math_3934
Before advocating India , when can we expect EU to stop importing fossil fuels from Russia? Why Can EU import but India cannot ? Are you guys even aware that EU is still importing from Russia?

在为印度辩护之前，请先告诉我：欧盟什么时候会停止从俄罗斯进口化石燃料？为什么欧盟可以进口，而印度就不行？你们真的知道欧盟现在还在进口俄罗斯能源吗？

Unlikely-Stage-4237
For India, they care about themselves. They are never interested for others. It is true to their own way.

对印度来说，他们只关心自己，从来不关心别人。这就是他们的一贯做派。

nkj94
When was the last time EU countries stopped trade because of war? There have been several major wars since World War II, was there even a single instance when Europe stopped trading, let alone trading essentials like oil, with the 'aggressor'? Or did this moral enlightenment only come to Europe in 2020?"

请问欧盟国家上一次因为战争而停止贸易是什么时候？二战后已经爆发过几场大战，欧洲有没有哪怕一次真正停止过贸易，更别说停止与“侵略者”进行石油这类必需品贸易？还是说这种所谓的道德觉醒，只是在 2020 年俄乌战争之后才突然降临到欧洲身上？

Sumeru88
In World War 1, Netherlands, Switzerland and the Scandinavian countries declared neutrality and traded with both sides.

在一战时，荷兰、瑞士和斯堪的纳维亚国家宣布中立，并和双方都保持贸易。

Vegetable_Pitch_1820
Even in the Europe sub, you mention India buying Russian oil and you get brigades to hell by Indians. Reddit is becoming unusable

就算是在欧洲板块里，只要你提到印度买俄罗斯石油，马上就会被一群印度人围攻。Reddit 已经快没法用了。

some_web_guy
The absolute lack of ability of self reflection on the part of some asian countries is amazing.
I think if you asked most US or EU folks they would be easily able to point out the good and bad and at least acknowledge the problems (which is the first step to solving problems).
In other places? Everything is the fault of somebody else or is not a problem but propaganda.
Indians have a tendency to blame Brits for everything, even close to 80 years after independence.

某些亚洲国家完全没有自省能力，真是令人震惊。
我觉得如果你问大多数美国或欧洲人，他们很容易就能指出自己国家的好与坏，至少能承认问题的存在（这是解决问题的第一步）。
而在别的地方？一切不是别人的错，就是“这根本不是我们的问题，而是敌对宣传”。
印度人特别喜欢把一切归咎于英国人，哪怕独立都快 80 年了。

Pokedan5
I'm Canadian, and I'm no fan of India. In fact, we are fed up with wiping their backside, and dealing with their exported war.
Plus, I hate it when they talk about their feelings. So frustrating.

我是加拿大人，我可不是印度的粉丝。事实上，我们已经受够了替他们擦屁股，还要处理他们输出的冲突。
更别提他们总是谈论自己的感受，真是让人烦透了。

some_web_guy
India didn't condemn Russia (even if it continued to trade), so it seems it has no issue with the war.
It also not just trades with Russia, it's more opportunistic than that.
India doesn't have a problem supporting imperial Russia, that tries to colonize Ukraine, because it benefits Indians.
So my point is: India has no moral position.
The position is: everyone is out for themselves.
British empire was also out for itself (so no difference to India now imho).
Further point:
Either Indians were always more like so called "Europeans" (which entails colonizers and colonized states) or they have learned from "Europeans" and are now more like them than they are willing to admit.

印度没有谴责俄罗斯（哪怕他们继续做生意），这说明他们对战争毫无意见。
而且他们不仅仅是继续和俄罗斯贸易，而是更机会主义。
印度对支持帝国式的俄罗斯没有问题——那个正在试图殖民乌克兰的俄罗斯——因为这对印度人有利。
所以我的观点是：印度没有任何道德立场。
他们的立场就是：人人都只为自己。
大英帝国当年也是只为自己（所以和今天的印度没什么区别，我认为）。
进一步讲：
要么印度人从来就和所谓的“欧洲人”（包括殖民者和被殖民者）差不多，要么他们从“欧洲人”那里学会了这种做法，而如今他们和欧洲人其实更相像，只是自己不愿承认罢了。

Fun-Corner-887
India is more like modern Europe. Just like how Europe will turn a blind eye for it's benefits during cold war and destruction of middle east. India will too turn a blind eye to Russia.
So you could say India has learned it's lessons and is emulating current European behavior. 

印度更像是现代的欧洲。就像欧洲在冷战时期和中东被毁灭时，会为了自身利益而视而不见一样，印度也会对俄罗斯睁一只眼闭一只眼。
所以你可以说，印度已经吸取了教训，正在模仿当下欧洲的行为。

That_Lazy_Dragon
Europe wants everything, they want oil and gas from Russia, manufactured good from China and security from USA. You have to compromise somewhere. Why put the blame on one country when Europe themselves are complicit in similar trade ??

欧洲什么都想要，他们想从俄罗斯获得石油和天然气，从中国买制造品，从美国获取安全保障。总得在某个地方做出妥协吧。为什么要把责任全推到某个国家身上，而欧洲自己在类似贸易中也同样有份呢？？

GarryWeber711
Europe mainly does not want to get attacked by a facist country. We‘re willing - and currently taking - a huuge economic hit. But Europeans are still willing to help. Cuz it‘s about freedom and nothing less.
Europe and the US enabled Ukraine to survive for 3+ years, losses on both sides are huge, advancements nearly zero. This war has damaged Russia more than the West. It‘s a huge success for us 

欧洲主要是不想被一个法西斯国家攻击。我们愿意——而且现在确实正在承受——巨大的经济损失。但欧洲人仍然愿意提供帮助。因为这关乎自由，除此之外没有别的。
欧洲和美国让乌克兰撑过了3年多，两边损失惨重，战线几乎没有推进。但这场战争对俄罗斯的伤害远比对西方大。这对我们来说就是巨大的成功。

oksn54
Who would have thougt that one of poorest and most less advanced countries in the world has no moral? Poor people have no moral but europe has money since generations and still worse moral than india

谁能想到，世界上最穷、最不发达的国家之一没有什么道德？穷人本来就没什么道德，但欧洲几代人都有钱，结果道德还比印度更烂。

TheFishyBanana
India and Russia are buddies and India does plenty of business with Europe too. That’s one of the reasons diesel and gasoline prices haven’t gone through the roof - and why Russia isn’t running out of money anytime soon.

印度和俄罗斯是伙伴，但印度也和欧洲做了大量生意。这就是为什么柴油和汽油的价格没有飙到天上去——也是为什么俄罗斯的钱不会马上用光的原因之一。

bizMagnet
Stop hiring millions of Indians then

那就别再雇几百万印度人了。

Pokedan5
It's not like companies are hiring indians cause they have a hard-on for Indias right? They're hiring cause of competence and it makes economic sense, stop this neocolonial shit already. Also India buying Russian oil was by design,Russia doesn't get higher profit by increased oil prices and European companies stay afloat from reduced energy cost by buying from India. Trump is just fleecing Europe by selling overpriced gas, that's his only motto, he's running a glorified extortion racket.

公司雇印度人可不是因为对印度有啥“特殊癖好”吧？他们雇是因为有能力，而且经济上合理。别再搞这种新殖民主义的屁话了。
而且印度买俄罗斯石油，本来就是设计好的一部分。俄罗斯并不会因为油价上涨而赚更多利润，欧洲公司通过买印度转手的能源反而维持住了生存。特朗普只是在宰欧洲，卖高价天然气，他唯一的动机就是这个，他干的就是个披着外交皮的勒索勾当。

fjaong12
Nice try. Companies hire Indians because they do have a hard on for Indians.
Europeans and Canadians are known to be harder workers and far more efficient than Indians. Plus far better quality.
If Canada could sell its oil and gas to Europe, and make the refineries in Canada, instead of the US forcing Canada to have the US have the refineries, Canada could sell to Europe, and would be far more reliable, and far more honest than India.

少装了。公司雇印度人确实就是因为他们对印度人有“特殊偏好”。
欧洲人和加拿大人是出了名的更勤奋，效率也比印度人高得多，质量更好。
如果加拿大能把石油和天然气直接卖给欧洲，并在加拿大本地炼油，而不是被美国逼着让炼油权留在美国，加拿大完全可以卖给欧洲，而且比印度更可靠，也更诚实。