在历史上，韩国很弱吗？
Why has Korea historically been a weak state
译文简介
网友：韩国并非一直是一个历史上弱小的国家。事实上，韩国曾经是一个极其强大的国家。
正文翻译
Ah Lîm
Korea has not always been a historically weak state. In fact, Korea used to be an incredibly powerful state.
During King Gwanggaeto the Great (391–413 AD), the Korean kingdom of Goguryeo was arguably the most powerful kingdom in Northeast Asia. At that time, China fell into division of multiple kingdoms, with northern China constantly getting raped by the five Hu tribes. King Gwanggaeto defeated the xianbei (who were the most powerful nomads of northern China at that time) state of Later Yan, and repulsed Japanese pirate invasions from the south.
Korean kingdom of Goguryeo at its height
Fast forward two to three hundred years later. Goguryeo managed to repel multiple invasions from Sui Yangdi, and then later Tang Taizong. Only during Tang Gaozong’s reign did Goguryeo finally fell to Tang. In other words, it took one entire Chinese dynasty (Sui), plus one of the greatest conqueror in Chinese history (Tang Taizong), plus numerous attempts from Gaozong, plus another Korean ally Silla, before the Chinese were finally able to defeat Goguryeo. This is not a weak kingdom by any means; I think there is enough evidence to suggest that Korea (specifically Goguryeo) was the most powerful country in Northeast Asia for several periods of time within the first thousand years after Jesus.
Then, when we jump ahead to the Mongol invasions, it took the Mongols 6 (six!) invasions and close to thirty years of war before Korea finally surrendered (and even then, Korea wasn’t entirely absorbed into Yuan… more like a quasi-state). The only other country that gave the Mongols this much grief was China, and considering that Korea is much smaller than China, I think Korea overall did a better job of fighting off the Mongols than the Chinese did.
I think Korea didn’t start to wane until the start of the Joseon dynasty (1392 and onwards). I don’t know that much about Korean history from this point on, but I know that the Joseon dynasty began to embrace Confucianism and shunned its traditional military culture (the same thing happened to China). For example, other than Yi Sun-Shin, the Koreans did a terrible job at war during the Japanese invasions of 1592. I’ve read history books that said that Korea at that time thought Japan, which was ruled by warriors (the samurais), to be a barbaric country. Korea pride itself on being a civilized country because it was ruled by aristocrats and scholars, just like Ming China was. If you look at Ming, which was also ruled by Confucianism, it was very much the same way as Korea was (shunning the military, embracing the scholars).
This is why Ming, in contrast to Han and Tang (two previous Han Chinese empires), was not very expansionist. It would take the Manchus, a warlike tribe in the northeast, to conquer China before China became expansionist again. But guess what happened after the Manchus conquered China and expanded the Chinese territory? They accepted the Confucian culture, and as a result, lost their warrior culture, which was partly responsible for its decline and falling victim to Western and Japanese invasions.
So I think what happened in the past few hundred years that made Korea seemed weaker than its other two neighbors is the culture of valuing scholars over all other professions.
韩国并非一直是一个历史上弱小的国家。事实上，韩国曾经是一个极其强大的国家。
在广开土大王（391—413年）统治时期，高句丽王国无疑是东北亚地区最强大的王国。当时，中国陷入分裂，北方被五胡部落不断侵扰。广开土大王击败了当时中国北方最强大的游牧民族——鲜卑族建立的后燕政权，并击退了来自南方的日本海盗入侵。
高句丽王国在其鼎盛时期，表现出了强大的军事力量。快进两三百年后，高句丽成功抵御了隋炀帝的多次入侵，后来又击退了唐太宗的进攻。直到唐高宗时期，高句丽才最终被唐朝联合新罗击败。换句话说，击败高句丽，不仅需要一个完整的中国王朝（隋朝），还需要中国历史上最伟大的征服者之一（唐太宗）、唐高宗的多次尝试，以及另一个朝鲜半岛的盟友——新罗的协助。这绝不是一个弱小的国家。我认为有足够的证据表明，在公元后第一个千年期间，韩国（特别是高句丽）在东北亚地区曾是几个时期内最强大的国家。
再往后看，蒙古入侵时，朝鲜半岛的抵抗也极为顽强。蒙古人对朝鲜半岛发动了6次入侵，经过近三十年的战争，朝鲜半岛才最终投降（即便如此，朝鲜半岛也并未被完全纳入元朝，更像是一个半独立的国家）。除了中国之外，没有其他任何国家能让蒙古人如此费力。考虑到朝鲜半岛的面积远小于中国，我认为朝鲜半岛在抵御蒙古入侵方面比中国做得更好。
我认为，朝鲜半岛的国力开始衰退是在朝鲜王朝（1392年及之后）开始的时候。我对朝鲜王朝之后的历史不太了解，但我知道朝鲜王朝开始奉行儒家思想，摒弃了传统的军事文化（中国也发生了类似的情况）。例如，在1592年日本入侵朝鲜半岛期间，除了李舜臣之外，朝鲜半岛在战争中的表现非常糟糕。我读过的历史书籍提到，当时的朝鲜半岛认为由武士（即日本的武士阶层）统治的日本是一个野蛮的国家。 朝鲜半岛自视为一个文明的国家，因为它是由贵族和学者统治的，就像明朝的中国一样。如果你观察明朝，它与汉朝和唐朝（前两个汉族帝国）不同，明朝并非一个扩张性的王朝。它需要东北的满族——一个尚武的部落来征服中国，中国才重新变得具有扩张性。 然而，当满族征服中国并扩大了中国领土之后，他们接受了儒家文化，结果失去了自己的武士文化，这也是其衰落并最终沦为西方和日本入侵目标的部分原因。
因此，我认为在过去几百年中，韩国看起来比其他两个邻国更弱，是因为它奉行了重文轻武的文化传统。
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Bill Chen
Korean terrain is difficult and mountainous. Its latitude also makes the climate very harsh. Easy to defend if you’re already there… not so easy to invade.
I suspect the supply lines are very hard to replenish.
Same reasons for Vietnam’s much vaunted strength in repulsing the Chinese.
韩国地形崎岖，多山。纬度也导致气候极为严酷。如果你已经在那里，防守很容易……但入侵可没那么简单。
我怀疑补给线会非常难以维持。
这也是越南在抵御中国进攻时备受称赞的强大之处。
Dong-Yoon Lee
If we(China, Japan, Vietnam, Korea and Taiwan) make devices to prevent ourselves from ignoring inferior groups’ dignity, East Asia can provide a vast amount of good influence to the world. Because we basically love peace.
如果我们（中国、日本、越南、韩国和台湾（地区））能创造一些机制，让自己不去忽视弱势群体的尊严，那么东亚可以为世界带来极大的正面影响。因为我们本质上是热爱和平的。
Michael Phan
You forget the Thais they also east Asian.the Burmese etc.
你忘了泰国人，他们也是东亚人。还有缅甸人等等。
Michael L. Best
Well done, good sir. I could not have provided a better answer myself.
干得好，先生。我自己都无法给出更好的回答。
Ave Kyo
The murals of Goguryeo depict Chinese gods Nuwa and Fuxi, who are said to have human bodies and snake tails, and are Adam and Eve in Chinese mythology. But Koreans didn’t recognize them at all, and even restored the snake tails into strange skirts. How can they say they are descendants of Goguryeo?
Enlarge the map of Goguryeo he drew and see how big it is. If Goguryeo was a powerful country, then what was the Turkic people?
高句丽的壁画描绘了中国的神祇女娲和伏羲，据说他们是人首蛇身，在中国神话中相当于亚当和夏娃。但韩国人根本没有认出他们，甚至把蛇尾复原成了奇怪的裙子。他们怎么能说自己是高句丽的后裔？
放大他画的高句丽地图，看看有多大。如果高句丽是一个强国，那突厥人又算什么？
Tu Ngo
Thanks for the very informative and interesting answer. However, I don’t totally agree with you on 2 details (of course feel free to correct me if I’m wrong).
Confucianism didn’t necessarily weaken military capability.
Confucianism was strongly embraced in many periods in China such as the Han dynasty, which had a very expansionist behavior.
So maybe it was something else (or some combination other factors) that made Joseon became less focused on militarism.
About the Mogol Empire’s conquests:
While I have much admiration and respect for Korean states of old, there was one country better than both China and Korea in terms of repelling the Mongols. This is Vietnam (Dai Viet at the time), who turned the 3 invasions of the Mongol Empire (and later the Yuan dynasty) into disasters & never surrendered.
谢谢你的回答，非常有见地和趣味性。不过，我在两个细节上不太完全同意你的观点（当然，如果我错了，请随时纠正我）。
儒家思想并不一定削弱军事能力。
儒家思想在中国的许多时期都得到了强烈推崇，例如汉朝，它是一个极具扩张性的王朝。汉武帝时期，汉朝通过军事行动成功击败了北方的匈奴，并在西域和南方扩张领土。因此，儒家思想与军事扩张并不矛盾，可能是其他因素（或多种因素的组合）导致朝鲜王朝对军事的重视程度降低。
关于蒙古帝国的征服：
虽然我非常钦佩和尊重韩国古代历史，但在抵御蒙古入侵方面，有一个国家的表现甚至超过了中国和朝鲜。这就是越南（当时称为大越）。蒙古帝国（以及后来的元朝）对越南发动了三次入侵，但这些入侵都以灾难告终，越南从未投降。
Ah Lîm
Sezar'ın Hakkı Sezar'a Fatih'in Hakkı Fatih'e
Nope, Tatar Khaganate was Turkic. It is referred to as the Turco-Mongol in the literature, but this is a mistake. In addition to historical records, DNA studies also proved that Genghis Khan was Turkic. Genghis Khan's Y haplogroup R1b-M343 lol
不，塔塔尔可汗国是突厥的。文献中将其称为突厥-蒙古，但这是一个错误。除了历史记录，DNA研究也证明成吉思汗是突厥人。成吉思汗的Y染色体单倍群是R1b-M343，哈哈。
Kevin Kim
I would agree that Confucian culture likely played a major role in limiting Joseon’s military preparedness. But, overall I would say it goes beyond just the military. Confucian culture was applied in such a strict manner that also made adaptability and proper governance difficult. Previous Korean dynasties had kings that would be more actively engaged with their people and in times of war, lead armies. By the time of King Seonjo and the Imjin War (Japanese invasion of Joseon), the king would have no actual military experience to conduct a war properly and no confidence in their decision making ability to make appropriate judgments (This is why Yi Soon Shin was tortured when he should have been honored for saving the kingdom). Joseon also failed to modernize in the late 1800s which allowed a second Japanese encroachment which ultimately led to the annexation of Korea in 1910.
我同意儒家文化可能在很大程度上限制了朝鲜王朝的军事准备。但总体而言，我认为这不仅仅是军事方面的问题。儒家文化被应用得如此严格，以至于也使得适应性和有效的治理变得困难。以前的朝鲜王朝有国王会更积极地与人民互动，并且在战争时期亲自领导军队。到了朝鲜宣祖和壬辰倭乱（日本入侵朝鲜）时期，国王没有任何实际的军事经验来妥善指挥战争，也没有足够的信心做出适当的判断（这就是为什么李舜臣在拯救了国家之后反而被折磨）。朝鲜王朝在19世纪末也未能实现现代化，这使得日本得以再次入侵，最终导致1910年朝鲜被日本吞并。
Ah Lîm
Harvey King
Is it accurate to describe Goguryeo a “Korean” culture?
将高句丽描述为“韩国”文化准确吗？
Eul Ji
Yes, it is. Korea has ethnical, cultural, historical inheritance of Goguryeo. But after the early 2000s, some Chinese began to claim that Goguryeo was part of China.
是的，准确。韩国在高句丽方面具有民族、文化和历史继承。但在2000年代初之后，一些中国人开始声称高句丽是中国的一部分。
Zayne Chu
Please note that the Chinese never claimed that Goguryeo was part of China, which is inaccurate. Usually, we think of it as a regime established by a frontier minority, a civilization that developed independently, much like the Manchu regime that later ruled China. It is only because the Tang Dynasty was more powerful and Goguryeo failed that these histories were incorporated into Chinese history.
Since modern Korea succeeded directly from Silla, which apparently never ruled Goguryeo nor was it ever ruled in its entirety by Goguryeo, we treat the two as two states. In fact, much of Goguryeo's historical heritage has been lost to history, and we only know that their ruling class used Chinese characters, the same as Silla, Baekje, and Japan, and that Goguryeo's dress and manners, political system, and military system were modeled on those of the Tang Dynasty but had their own national characteristics, which were somewhat different from those of Silla and Tang during the same period, and closer to those of Baekje and Japan. Genetically speaking, its survivors were integrated into China, Korea and Japan at the same time, so you can hardly define modern Korea as having a direct succession with it.
请注意，中国从未声称高句丽是中国的一部分，这种说法是不准确的。通常，我们把高句丽看作是由边疆少数民族建立的一个独立发展的政权，就像后来统治中国的满族政权一样。只是因为唐朝更强大，高句丽失败了，这些历史才被纳入了中国的历史记载。
由于现代韩国是由新罗直接继承而来的，而新罗显然从未统治过高句丽，高句丽也从未完全统治过新罗，所以我们把两者当作两个不同的国家来看待。事实上，高句丽的很多历史遗产已经丢失在历史长河中了，我们只知道他们的统治阶层使用汉字，这和新罗、百济以及日本一样。高句丽的服饰、礼仪、政治制度和军事制度都是以唐朝为模板，但也有自己的民族特色，这些特色与同时期的新罗和唐朝有所不同，而更接近于百济和日本。从遗传学角度看，高句丽的幸存者同时融入了中国、韩国和日本，所以你很难把现代韩国定义为高句丽的直接继承者。
Eul Ji
You said
“Since modern Korea succeeded directly from Silla,”
No intention to offend you, but that is only how Chinese want to view Korean history. The reality is different.
Actually, Korea succeeded both Silla and Goguryeo, Beakje. A lot of Goguryeo revival forces and its citizens voluntarily moved to silla, not tang.
Goryeo was founded by Goguryeo lineage and accepted numerous Balhae people.
We have the culture, blood and identity of goguryeo.
So it is true that Korea was also directly inherited by Goguryeo, just like Beakje and Silla.
你说：
“由于现代韩国直接继承了新罗，”
无意冒犯，但这只是中国人如何看待韩国历史的方式。现实是不同的。
实际上，韩国继承了新罗、高句丽和百济。许多高句丽复兴力量及其公民自愿迁移到新罗，而不是唐朝。
高丽是由高句丽血统建立的，并接纳了许多渤海人。
我们拥有高句丽的文化、血统和身份。
因此，韩国确实也直接继承了高句丽，就像百济和新罗一样。
زىياجان تاشبۇلاق
Most of the citizens of Goguryeo moved to China, and no citizens of Goguryeo voluntarily moved to Silla.
Korea also did not directly inherit Goguryeo, and the Joseon Dynasty believed that Goguryeo had no relationship with them.
Judging from modern genetic tests, the ethnic group closest to the Goguryeo people is the Chinese.
Goguryeo may have some relationship with Japan in terms of language.
大多数高句丽公民迁移到了中国，没有高句丽公民自愿迁移到新罗。
韩国也没有直接继承高句丽，朝鲜王朝认为高句丽与他们没有关系。
根据现代基因测试，与高句丽人最接近的民族是中国人。
高句丽在语言方面可能与日本有一些关系。
Tofu Dofu2
that’s like taking the Koreans that now live in present day Russia/Kazakstan that migrated there due to wars and shit… genetically testing them and stating that they are the closest ethnic group to the Koreans living in North or South Korea…
you realize that many of those people residing in now present day China (but used to be Goguryeo) either moved? hence why there can be a discrepancy for calling them Chinese?
这就像拿那些现在生活在俄罗斯/哈萨克斯坦的韩国人来说，他们是因为战争等原因迁移到那里的……对他们进行基因测试，然后声称他们是最接近生活在朝鲜或韩国的韩民族……
你意识到许多现在居住在中国（但曾经是高句丽）的人要么迁移吗？因此，为什么称他们为中国人会有差异？
زىياجان تاشبۇلاق
There are not even as many differences among Chinese as there are within any group of Europeans.
Goguryeo, except for the royal family, which is the Fuyu people, basically most of the citizens are Han Chinese, because Northeast China and the northern part of the Korean Peninsula have already been home to a large number of Han Chinese as early as BC, and the number is far more than any other ethnic group. South Korea's Our ancestors lived in the southern part of the Korean Peninsula at that time. They did not come into contact with the Buyeo people until the 4th century. However, as early as the 4th century ago, the ancestors of the Koreans did come into contact with the Han Chinese and even mixed with the Han Chinese. This means that the Han Chinese had expanded to the southern part of the Korean Peninsula even before the 4th century.
And according to DNA, Koreans have a number of Han Chinese genes, but the genes of nomadic people are much less. This obviously overturns the idea that Koreans have different nomadic genes, and also shows that Koreans are not the descendants of nomads. To be precise, Koreans are a group composed of Han Chinese, ethnic groups in southern China, Southeast Asians, some indigenous people of the Korean Peninsula, and some nomadic peoples. The closest relatives of Koreans are Japanese.
在中国人之间，甚至没有欧洲人内部的差异那么大。
高句丽的情况是，除了王室是扶余人之外，基本上大部分公民都是汉族人，因为早在公元前，中国东北地区和朝鲜半岛北部就已经居住了大量汉族人，数量远远超过其他任何民族。而韩国人的祖先当时生活在朝鲜半岛南部，直到4世纪才接触到扶余人。然而，早在4世纪之前，韩国人的祖先就已经和汉族人接触甚至融合了。这意味着在4世纪之前，汉族人就已经扩展到了朝鲜半岛南部。
根据DNA研究，韩国人有相当数量的汉族基因，但游牧民族的基因却少得多。这显然推翻了韩国人有不同游牧基因的观点，也表明韩国人并非游牧民族的后代。准确地说，韩国人是由汉族人、中国南方民族、东南亚人、朝鲜半岛的原住民以及一些游牧民族组成的群体。韩国人最近的亲属是日本人。
Emmanuel Aburi Amo
Agree with Goguryeo being different Silla. However, I am hesistant to fully embrace your opinion because of following (I am not an expert so would love you hear you opinions on these!) :
Incorporation of Chinese system of government and politics is an inevitable force within East Asian history. Silla, and even Japan, though vary in extent, adopted various concepts and Tang's approach in government. Due to geographic closeness, Goguryeo extensively associated with Chinese culture, directly or indirectly and as battle or trade. Pretty clear why Goguryeo had different government system. Therefore, making distinction with Goguryeo because of this reason seems premature.
Linguistic history seems to suggest that proto koreanic language was spoken along Southern Manchuria and northern Korean peninsula (exact distribution and shift of speakers and time period is an approximation). Then, the language gradually dispersed to the south, driving proto japonic speakers out of peninsula to the archipelago. I believe there is a record that says, Baekje was able to speak to Silla and Goguryeo without translation but not Silla to Goguryeo, vice and versa. Given that, it may be likely that by the fall of Goguryeo, people of peninsular and south Manchuria spoke same (recognizable) language.
Emergence Goryeo following rise of later Baekje. For people to use previous kingdom that existed centuries ago to justify it's legitimacy may be a indication that locals embraced Goguryeo identity, or at least found themselves to be best fit to continue the legacy due to closeness of geography and historical comtext
关于高句丽与新罗、百济以及现代韩国的关系，以及高句丽的文化和语言特征，以下是一些基于历史和学术研究的观点：
1. 高句丽的政治与文化：
高句丽是一个独立的古代政权，其政治制度和文化在一定程度上受到了中国的影响，但同时也具有自身的独特性。高句丽的统治阶层使用汉字，其政治制度和礼仪体系在一定程度上模仿了中原王朝，但也有自己的民族特色。这种文化融合是东亚历史的普遍现象，新罗和日本也在不同程度上吸收了唐朝的政治和文化理念。
2. 语言与民族构成
从语言学角度看，高句丽的语言可能与朝鲜半岛南部的原始语言有联系，但具体分布和演变过程仍有待研究。有观点认为，高句丽的语言与百济和新罗的语言有一定的相似性，但并不完全相同。这种语言的相似性可能反映了朝鲜半岛北部和南部之间的文化交流。
3. 高句丽与现代韩国的关系
现代韩国的历史继承主要来自新罗和后来的高丽王朝，而高句丽在地理和文化上与这些政权有一定的联系，但并非直接继承关系。高句丽的遗产在一定程度上被后来的朝鲜半岛政权所吸收，但其民族构成和文化特征已经发生了很大变化。
4. 高句丽的文化认同
高句丽的文化和历史在朝鲜半岛的历史叙述中占有重要地位，尤其是在地理和文化上与高句丽相近的地区。例如，后来的高丽王朝可能在一定程度上借鉴了高句丽的历史遗产来增强自身的合法性。
综上所述，高句丽是一个具有独特历史和文化的古代政权，其与新罗、百济以及现代韩国的关系是复杂且多面的。
The Russian Spy
Most of the land in the map above is Chinese.
地图上的大部分土地是中国的。
Raymond Chow
The modern Koreans are descendants of the three countries in the Korean Peninsula on this map. The Goguryeo is the enemy of the Korean. Interesting!
现代韩国人是这张地图上朝鲜半岛三个国家的后裔。高句丽是韩国人的敌人。有趣！
이규호말새끼
So, by your logic, German and Chinese states have fought each other for centuries. So is the Shu Dynasty, Bavaria, Saxony, and many others, not part of Chinese and German history?
那么，按照你的逻辑，德国，中国各王国已经打了几个世纪的仗。那么蜀汉、巴伐利亚、萨克森和许多其他国家，不是中国和德国历史的一部分吗？
Goodi Shang
Koguryo was destroyed by the Tang Dynasty. In order to prevent Koguryo from growing again, the Tang Dynasty moved Koguryo to other places. Are you sure you are a descendant of Koguryo? Your ancestors should be xinluo and Baiji. Koguryo is the enemy of Silla. Are you sure you want to worship your ancestors' enemies now? Don't kneel down in front of the enemy and shout their ancestors because Koguryo is strong.
高句丽被唐朝摧毁。为了防止高句丽再次崛起，唐朝将高句丽人迁移到其他地方。你确定你是高句丽的后裔吗？你的祖先应该是新罗和百济。高句丽是新罗的敌人。你现在确定要崇拜你祖先的敌人吗？不要因为高句丽强大就跪在敌人面前喊他们的祖先。
Michael Phan
Wow I thought hans worship their enemies the Mongolian and Manchu
哇，我以为汉人崇拜他们的敌人蒙古人和满族人。
Simon Dan
The Han Chinese consisted of many races which include Koreans. There is no such a thing as pure blooded Han therefore the definition of Chinese is based on a civilization not on races.
汉人由许多种族组成，包括韩国人。没有纯血统的汉人，因此中国人的定义基于文明而不是种族。
Charles Houghton
认贼作父
Otto Appocalyse
The absurdity of South Koreans' enthusiasm for describing Goguryeo as their ancestors is as ridiculous as Charlemagne's ancestor of the Germans. You can't make an ancestor of a country that is not born in present-day South Korea, where most of the country is not in South Korea, and whose scxt is completely different from that of South Korea. The only relationship between your ancestors and Goguryeo is that Goguryeo would periodically go south to plunder you as slaves and export them to the Central Plains Dynasty, and the "Silla Handmaiden" was a very sought-after servant commodity since the Han Dynasty.
韩国人热情地将高句丽描述为他们的祖先的荒谬程度，就像德国人将查理曼大帝视为祖先一样可笑。你不能将一个不在现代韩国境内出生的国家视为祖先，该国大部分地区不在韩国境内，其文字也与韩国完全不同。你们的祖先与高句丽唯一的关系是高句丽会定期南下掠夺你们作为奴隶，并将他们出口到中原王朝，而“新罗婢女”自汉朝以来就是一种非常抢手的仆人商品。
Aaron Cho
That makes no sense. Goguryeo is a part of Korean history - there is no debate about this. It's 100% a part of Korean cultural identity. You're confusing ethnic/cultural legacy and modern statehood.
这毫无道理。高句丽是韩国历史的一部分——这一点无可争议。它100%是韩国文化认同的一部分。你混淆了民族/文化遗产和现代国家地位。
Charles Houghton
我称之为：承认贼是父亲;韩国人对那些祖先这样做有权利吗，高句丽，一个古老的中国少数民族政权，各种侵略韩国和朝鲜的祖先，实际上被他们承认为祖先;真的很有趣
Korea has not always been a historically weak state. In fact, Korea used to be an incredibly powerful state.
During King Gwanggaeto the Great (391–413 AD), the Korean kingdom of Goguryeo was arguably the most powerful kingdom in Northeast Asia. At that time, China fell into division of multiple kingdoms, with northern China constantly getting raped by the five Hu tribes. King Gwanggaeto defeated the xianbei (who were the most powerful nomads of northern China at that time) state of Later Yan, and repulsed Japanese pirate invasions from the south.
Korean kingdom of Goguryeo at its height
Fast forward two to three hundred years later. Goguryeo managed to repel multiple invasions from Sui Yangdi, and then later Tang Taizong. Only during Tang Gaozong’s reign did Goguryeo finally fell to Tang. In other words, it took one entire Chinese dynasty (Sui), plus one of the greatest conqueror in Chinese history (Tang Taizong), plus numerous attempts from Gaozong, plus another Korean ally Silla, before the Chinese were finally able to defeat Goguryeo. This is not a weak kingdom by any means; I think there is enough evidence to suggest that Korea (specifically Goguryeo) was the most powerful country in Northeast Asia for several periods of time within the first thousand years after Jesus.
Then, when we jump ahead to the Mongol invasions, it took the Mongols 6 (six!) invasions and close to thirty years of war before Korea finally surrendered (and even then, Korea wasn’t entirely absorbed into Yuan… more like a quasi-state). The only other country that gave the Mongols this much grief was China, and considering that Korea is much smaller than China, I think Korea overall did a better job of fighting off the Mongols than the Chinese did.
I think Korea didn’t start to wane until the start of the Joseon dynasty (1392 and onwards). I don’t know that much about Korean history from this point on, but I know that the Joseon dynasty began to embrace Confucianism and shunned its traditional military culture (the same thing happened to China). For example, other than Yi Sun-Shin, the Koreans did a terrible job at war during the Japanese invasions of 1592. I’ve read history books that said that Korea at that time thought Japan, which was ruled by warriors (the samurais), to be a barbaric country. Korea pride itself on being a civilized country because it was ruled by aristocrats and scholars, just like Ming China was. If you look at Ming, which was also ruled by Confucianism, it was very much the same way as Korea was (shunning the military, embracing the scholars).
This is why Ming, in contrast to Han and Tang (two previous Han Chinese empires), was not very expansionist. It would take the Manchus, a warlike tribe in the northeast, to conquer China before China became expansionist again. But guess what happened after the Manchus conquered China and expanded the Chinese territory? They accepted the Confucian culture, and as a result, lost their warrior culture, which was partly responsible for its decline and falling victim to Western and Japanese invasions.
So I think what happened in the past few hundred years that made Korea seemed weaker than its other two neighbors is the culture of valuing scholars over all other professions.
韩国并非一直是一个历史上弱小的国家。事实上，韩国曾经是一个极其强大的国家。
在广开土大王（391—413年）统治时期，高句丽王国无疑是东北亚地区最强大的王国。当时，中国陷入分裂，北方被五胡部落不断侵扰。广开土大王击败了当时中国北方最强大的游牧民族——鲜卑族建立的后燕政权，并击退了来自南方的日本海盗入侵。
高句丽王国在其鼎盛时期，表现出了强大的军事力量。快进两三百年后，高句丽成功抵御了隋炀帝的多次入侵，后来又击退了唐太宗的进攻。直到唐高宗时期，高句丽才最终被唐朝联合新罗击败。换句话说，击败高句丽，不仅需要一个完整的中国王朝（隋朝），还需要中国历史上最伟大的征服者之一（唐太宗）、唐高宗的多次尝试，以及另一个朝鲜半岛的盟友——新罗的协助。这绝不是一个弱小的国家。我认为有足够的证据表明，在公元后第一个千年期间，韩国（特别是高句丽）在东北亚地区曾是几个时期内最强大的国家。
再往后看，蒙古入侵时，朝鲜半岛的抵抗也极为顽强。蒙古人对朝鲜半岛发动了6次入侵，经过近三十年的战争，朝鲜半岛才最终投降（即便如此，朝鲜半岛也并未被完全纳入元朝，更像是一个半独立的国家）。除了中国之外，没有其他任何国家能让蒙古人如此费力。考虑到朝鲜半岛的面积远小于中国，我认为朝鲜半岛在抵御蒙古入侵方面比中国做得更好。
我认为，朝鲜半岛的国力开始衰退是在朝鲜王朝（1392年及之后）开始的时候。我对朝鲜王朝之后的历史不太了解，但我知道朝鲜王朝开始奉行儒家思想，摒弃了传统的军事文化（中国也发生了类似的情况）。例如，在1592年日本入侵朝鲜半岛期间，除了李舜臣之外，朝鲜半岛在战争中的表现非常糟糕。我读过的历史书籍提到，当时的朝鲜半岛认为由武士（即日本的武士阶层）统治的日本是一个野蛮的国家。 朝鲜半岛自视为一个文明的国家，因为它是由贵族和学者统治的，就像明朝的中国一样。如果你观察明朝，它与汉朝和唐朝（前两个汉族帝国）不同，明朝并非一个扩张性的王朝。它需要东北的满族——一个尚武的部落来征服中国，中国才重新变得具有扩张性。 然而，当满族征服中国并扩大了中国领土之后，他们接受了儒家文化，结果失去了自己的武士文化，这也是其衰落并最终沦为西方和日本入侵目标的部分原因。
因此，我认为在过去几百年中，韩国看起来比其他两个邻国更弱，是因为它奉行了重文轻武的文化传统。
：
Bill Chen
Korean terrain is difficult and mountainous. Its latitude also makes the climate very harsh. Easy to defend if you’re already there… not so easy to invade.
I suspect the supply lines are very hard to replenish.
Same reasons for Vietnam’s much vaunted strength in repulsing the Chinese.
韩国地形崎岖，多山。纬度也导致气候极为严酷。如果你已经在那里，防守很容易……但入侵可没那么简单。
我怀疑补给线会非常难以维持。
这也是越南在抵御中国进攻时备受称赞的强大之处。
Dong-Yoon Lee
If we(China, Japan, Vietnam, Korea and Taiwan) make devices to prevent ourselves from ignoring inferior groups’ dignity, East Asia can provide a vast amount of good influence to the world. Because we basically love peace.
如果我们（中国、日本、越南、韩国和台湾（地区））能创造一些机制，让自己不去忽视弱势群体的尊严，那么东亚可以为世界带来极大的正面影响。因为我们本质上是热爱和平的。
Michael Phan
You forget the Thais they also east Asian.the Burmese etc.
你忘了泰国人，他们也是东亚人。还有缅甸人等等。
Michael L. Best
Well done, good sir. I could not have provided a better answer myself.
干得好，先生。我自己都无法给出更好的回答。
Ave Kyo
The murals of Goguryeo depict Chinese gods Nuwa and Fuxi, who are said to have human bodies and snake tails, and are Adam and Eve in Chinese mythology. But Koreans didn’t recognize them at all, and even restored the snake tails into strange skirts. How can they say they are descendants of Goguryeo?
Enlarge the map of Goguryeo he drew and see how big it is. If Goguryeo was a powerful country, then what was the Turkic people?
高句丽的壁画描绘了中国的神祇女娲和伏羲，据说他们是人首蛇身，在中国神话中相当于亚当和夏娃。但韩国人根本没有认出他们，甚至把蛇尾复原成了奇怪的裙子。他们怎么能说自己是高句丽的后裔？
放大他画的高句丽地图，看看有多大。如果高句丽是一个强国，那突厥人又算什么？
Tu Ngo
Thanks for the very informative and interesting answer. However, I don’t totally agree with you on 2 details (of course feel free to correct me if I’m wrong).
Confucianism didn’t necessarily weaken military capability.
Confucianism was strongly embraced in many periods in China such as the Han dynasty, which had a very expansionist behavior.
So maybe it was something else (or some combination other factors) that made Joseon became less focused on militarism.
About the Mogol Empire’s conquests:
While I have much admiration and respect for Korean states of old, there was one country better than both China and Korea in terms of repelling the Mongols. This is Vietnam (Dai Viet at the time), who turned the 3 invasions of the Mongol Empire (and later the Yuan dynasty) into disasters & never surrendered.
谢谢你的回答，非常有见地和趣味性。不过，我在两个细节上不太完全同意你的观点（当然，如果我错了，请随时纠正我）。
儒家思想并不一定削弱军事能力。
儒家思想在中国的许多时期都得到了强烈推崇，例如汉朝，它是一个极具扩张性的王朝。汉武帝时期，汉朝通过军事行动成功击败了北方的匈奴，并在西域和南方扩张领土。因此，儒家思想与军事扩张并不矛盾，可能是其他因素（或多种因素的组合）导致朝鲜王朝对军事的重视程度降低。
关于蒙古帝国的征服：
虽然我非常钦佩和尊重韩国古代历史，但在抵御蒙古入侵方面，有一个国家的表现甚至超过了中国和朝鲜。这就是越南（当时称为大越）。蒙古帝国（以及后来的元朝）对越南发动了三次入侵，但这些入侵都以灾难告终，越南从未投降。
Ah Lîm
Sezar'ın Hakkı Sezar'a Fatih'in Hakkı Fatih'e
Nope, Tatar Khaganate was Turkic. It is referred to as the Turco-Mongol in the literature, but this is a mistake. In addition to historical records, DNA studies also proved that Genghis Khan was Turkic. Genghis Khan's Y haplogroup R1b-M343 lol
不，塔塔尔可汗国是突厥的。文献中将其称为突厥-蒙古，但这是一个错误。除了历史记录，DNA研究也证明成吉思汗是突厥人。成吉思汗的Y染色体单倍群是R1b-M343，哈哈。
Kevin Kim
I would agree that Confucian culture likely played a major role in limiting Joseon’s military preparedness. But, overall I would say it goes beyond just the military. Confucian culture was applied in such a strict manner that also made adaptability and proper governance difficult. Previous Korean dynasties had kings that would be more actively engaged with their people and in times of war, lead armies. By the time of King Seonjo and the Imjin War (Japanese invasion of Joseon), the king would have no actual military experience to conduct a war properly and no confidence in their decision making ability to make appropriate judgments (This is why Yi Soon Shin was tortured when he should have been honored for saving the kingdom). Joseon also failed to modernize in the late 1800s which allowed a second Japanese encroachment which ultimately led to the annexation of Korea in 1910.
我同意儒家文化可能在很大程度上限制了朝鲜王朝的军事准备。但总体而言，我认为这不仅仅是军事方面的问题。儒家文化被应用得如此严格，以至于也使得适应性和有效的治理变得困难。以前的朝鲜王朝有国王会更积极地与人民互动，并且在战争时期亲自领导军队。到了朝鲜宣祖和壬辰倭乱（日本入侵朝鲜）时期，国王没有任何实际的军事经验来妥善指挥战争，也没有足够的信心做出适当的判断（这就是为什么李舜臣在拯救了国家之后反而被折磨）。朝鲜王朝在19世纪末也未能实现现代化，这使得日本得以再次入侵，最终导致1910年朝鲜被日本吞并。
Ah Lîm
Harvey King
Is it accurate to describe Goguryeo a “Korean” culture?
将高句丽描述为“韩国”文化准确吗？
Eul Ji
Yes, it is. Korea has ethnical, cultural, historical inheritance of Goguryeo. But after the early 2000s, some Chinese began to claim that Goguryeo was part of China.
是的，准确。韩国在高句丽方面具有民族、文化和历史继承。但在2000年代初之后，一些中国人开始声称高句丽是中国的一部分。
Zayne Chu
Please note that the Chinese never claimed that Goguryeo was part of China, which is inaccurate. Usually, we think of it as a regime established by a frontier minority, a civilization that developed independently, much like the Manchu regime that later ruled China. It is only because the Tang Dynasty was more powerful and Goguryeo failed that these histories were incorporated into Chinese history.
Since modern Korea succeeded directly from Silla, which apparently never ruled Goguryeo nor was it ever ruled in its entirety by Goguryeo, we treat the two as two states. In fact, much of Goguryeo's historical heritage has been lost to history, and we only know that their ruling class used Chinese characters, the same as Silla, Baekje, and Japan, and that Goguryeo's dress and manners, political system, and military system were modeled on those of the Tang Dynasty but had their own national characteristics, which were somewhat different from those of Silla and Tang during the same period, and closer to those of Baekje and Japan. Genetically speaking, its survivors were integrated into China, Korea and Japan at the same time, so you can hardly define modern Korea as having a direct succession with it.
请注意，中国从未声称高句丽是中国的一部分，这种说法是不准确的。通常，我们把高句丽看作是由边疆少数民族建立的一个独立发展的政权，就像后来统治中国的满族政权一样。只是因为唐朝更强大，高句丽失败了，这些历史才被纳入了中国的历史记载。
由于现代韩国是由新罗直接继承而来的，而新罗显然从未统治过高句丽，高句丽也从未完全统治过新罗，所以我们把两者当作两个不同的国家来看待。事实上，高句丽的很多历史遗产已经丢失在历史长河中了，我们只知道他们的统治阶层使用汉字，这和新罗、百济以及日本一样。高句丽的服饰、礼仪、政治制度和军事制度都是以唐朝为模板，但也有自己的民族特色，这些特色与同时期的新罗和唐朝有所不同，而更接近于百济和日本。从遗传学角度看，高句丽的幸存者同时融入了中国、韩国和日本，所以你很难把现代韩国定义为高句丽的直接继承者。
Eul Ji
You said
“Since modern Korea succeeded directly from Silla,”
No intention to offend you, but that is only how Chinese want to view Korean history. The reality is different.
Actually, Korea succeeded both Silla and Goguryeo, Beakje. A lot of Goguryeo revival forces and its citizens voluntarily moved to silla, not tang.
Goryeo was founded by Goguryeo lineage and accepted numerous Balhae people.
We have the culture, blood and identity of goguryeo.
So it is true that Korea was also directly inherited by Goguryeo, just like Beakje and Silla.
你说：
“由于现代韩国直接继承了新罗，”
无意冒犯，但这只是中国人如何看待韩国历史的方式。现实是不同的。
实际上，韩国继承了新罗、高句丽和百济。许多高句丽复兴力量及其公民自愿迁移到新罗，而不是唐朝。
高丽是由高句丽血统建立的，并接纳了许多渤海人。
我们拥有高句丽的文化、血统和身份。
因此，韩国确实也直接继承了高句丽，就像百济和新罗一样。
زىياجان تاشبۇلاق
Most of the citizens of Goguryeo moved to China, and no citizens of Goguryeo voluntarily moved to Silla.
Korea also did not directly inherit Goguryeo, and the Joseon Dynasty believed that Goguryeo had no relationship with them.
Judging from modern genetic tests, the ethnic group closest to the Goguryeo people is the Chinese.
Goguryeo may have some relationship with Japan in terms of language.
大多数高句丽公民迁移到了中国，没有高句丽公民自愿迁移到新罗。
韩国也没有直接继承高句丽，朝鲜王朝认为高句丽与他们没有关系。
根据现代基因测试，与高句丽人最接近的民族是中国人。
高句丽在语言方面可能与日本有一些关系。
Tofu Dofu2
that’s like taking the Koreans that now live in present day Russia/Kazakstan that migrated there due to wars and shit… genetically testing them and stating that they are the closest ethnic group to the Koreans living in North or South Korea…
you realize that many of those people residing in now present day China (but used to be Goguryeo) either moved? hence why there can be a discrepancy for calling them Chinese?
这就像拿那些现在生活在俄罗斯/哈萨克斯坦的韩国人来说，他们是因为战争等原因迁移到那里的……对他们进行基因测试，然后声称他们是最接近生活在朝鲜或韩国的韩民族……
你意识到许多现在居住在中国（但曾经是高句丽）的人要么迁移吗？因此，为什么称他们为中国人会有差异？
زىياجان تاشبۇلاق
There are not even as many differences among Chinese as there are within any group of Europeans.
Goguryeo, except for the royal family, which is the Fuyu people, basically most of the citizens are Han Chinese, because Northeast China and the northern part of the Korean Peninsula have already been home to a large number of Han Chinese as early as BC, and the number is far more than any other ethnic group. South Korea's Our ancestors lived in the southern part of the Korean Peninsula at that time. They did not come into contact with the Buyeo people until the 4th century. However, as early as the 4th century ago, the ancestors of the Koreans did come into contact with the Han Chinese and even mixed with the Han Chinese. This means that the Han Chinese had expanded to the southern part of the Korean Peninsula even before the 4th century.
And according to DNA, Koreans have a number of Han Chinese genes, but the genes of nomadic people are much less. This obviously overturns the idea that Koreans have different nomadic genes, and also shows that Koreans are not the descendants of nomads. To be precise, Koreans are a group composed of Han Chinese, ethnic groups in southern China, Southeast Asians, some indigenous people of the Korean Peninsula, and some nomadic peoples. The closest relatives of Koreans are Japanese.
在中国人之间，甚至没有欧洲人内部的差异那么大。
高句丽的情况是，除了王室是扶余人之外，基本上大部分公民都是汉族人，因为早在公元前，中国东北地区和朝鲜半岛北部就已经居住了大量汉族人，数量远远超过其他任何民族。而韩国人的祖先当时生活在朝鲜半岛南部，直到4世纪才接触到扶余人。然而，早在4世纪之前，韩国人的祖先就已经和汉族人接触甚至融合了。这意味着在4世纪之前，汉族人就已经扩展到了朝鲜半岛南部。
根据DNA研究，韩国人有相当数量的汉族基因，但游牧民族的基因却少得多。这显然推翻了韩国人有不同游牧基因的观点，也表明韩国人并非游牧民族的后代。准确地说，韩国人是由汉族人、中国南方民族、东南亚人、朝鲜半岛的原住民以及一些游牧民族组成的群体。韩国人最近的亲属是日本人。
Emmanuel Aburi Amo
Agree with Goguryeo being different Silla. However, I am hesistant to fully embrace your opinion because of following (I am not an expert so would love you hear you opinions on these!) :
Incorporation of Chinese system of government and politics is an inevitable force within East Asian history. Silla, and even Japan, though vary in extent, adopted various concepts and Tang's approach in government. Due to geographic closeness, Goguryeo extensively associated with Chinese culture, directly or indirectly and as battle or trade. Pretty clear why Goguryeo had different government system. Therefore, making distinction with Goguryeo because of this reason seems premature.
Linguistic history seems to suggest that proto koreanic language was spoken along Southern Manchuria and northern Korean peninsula (exact distribution and shift of speakers and time period is an approximation). Then, the language gradually dispersed to the south, driving proto japonic speakers out of peninsula to the archipelago. I believe there is a record that says, Baekje was able to speak to Silla and Goguryeo without translation but not Silla to Goguryeo, vice and versa. Given that, it may be likely that by the fall of Goguryeo, people of peninsular and south Manchuria spoke same (recognizable) language.
Emergence Goryeo following rise of later Baekje. For people to use previous kingdom that existed centuries ago to justify it's legitimacy may be a indication that locals embraced Goguryeo identity, or at least found themselves to be best fit to continue the legacy due to closeness of geography and historical comtext
关于高句丽与新罗、百济以及现代韩国的关系，以及高句丽的文化和语言特征，以下是一些基于历史和学术研究的观点：
1. 高句丽的政治与文化：
高句丽是一个独立的古代政权，其政治制度和文化在一定程度上受到了中国的影响，但同时也具有自身的独特性。高句丽的统治阶层使用汉字，其政治制度和礼仪体系在一定程度上模仿了中原王朝，但也有自己的民族特色。这种文化融合是东亚历史的普遍现象，新罗和日本也在不同程度上吸收了唐朝的政治和文化理念。
2. 语言与民族构成
从语言学角度看，高句丽的语言可能与朝鲜半岛南部的原始语言有联系，但具体分布和演变过程仍有待研究。有观点认为，高句丽的语言与百济和新罗的语言有一定的相似性，但并不完全相同。这种语言的相似性可能反映了朝鲜半岛北部和南部之间的文化交流。
3. 高句丽与现代韩国的关系
现代韩国的历史继承主要来自新罗和后来的高丽王朝，而高句丽在地理和文化上与这些政权有一定的联系，但并非直接继承关系。高句丽的遗产在一定程度上被后来的朝鲜半岛政权所吸收，但其民族构成和文化特征已经发生了很大变化。
4. 高句丽的文化认同
高句丽的文化和历史在朝鲜半岛的历史叙述中占有重要地位，尤其是在地理和文化上与高句丽相近的地区。例如，后来的高丽王朝可能在一定程度上借鉴了高句丽的历史遗产来增强自身的合法性。
综上所述，高句丽是一个具有独特历史和文化的古代政权，其与新罗、百济以及现代韩国的关系是复杂且多面的。
The Russian Spy
Most of the land in the map above is Chinese.
地图上的大部分土地是中国的。
Raymond Chow
The modern Koreans are descendants of the three countries in the Korean Peninsula on this map. The Goguryeo is the enemy of the Korean. Interesting!
现代韩国人是这张地图上朝鲜半岛三个国家的后裔。高句丽是韩国人的敌人。有趣！
이규호말새끼
So, by your logic, German and Chinese states have fought each other for centuries. So is the Shu Dynasty, Bavaria, Saxony, and many others, not part of Chinese and German history?
那么，按照你的逻辑，德国，中国各王国已经打了几个世纪的仗。那么蜀汉、巴伐利亚、萨克森和许多其他国家，不是中国和德国历史的一部分吗？
Goodi Shang
Koguryo was destroyed by the Tang Dynasty. In order to prevent Koguryo from growing again, the Tang Dynasty moved Koguryo to other places. Are you sure you are a descendant of Koguryo? Your ancestors should be xinluo and Baiji. Koguryo is the enemy of Silla. Are you sure you want to worship your ancestors' enemies now? Don't kneel down in front of the enemy and shout their ancestors because Koguryo is strong.
高句丽被唐朝摧毁。为了防止高句丽再次崛起，唐朝将高句丽人迁移到其他地方。你确定你是高句丽的后裔吗？你的祖先应该是新罗和百济。高句丽是新罗的敌人。你现在确定要崇拜你祖先的敌人吗？不要因为高句丽强大就跪在敌人面前喊他们的祖先。
Michael Phan
Wow I thought hans worship their enemies the Mongolian and Manchu
哇，我以为汉人崇拜他们的敌人蒙古人和满族人。
Simon Dan
The Han Chinese consisted of many races which include Koreans. There is no such a thing as pure blooded Han therefore the definition of Chinese is based on a civilization not on races.
汉人由许多种族组成，包括韩国人。没有纯血统的汉人，因此中国人的定义基于文明而不是种族。
Charles Houghton
认贼作父
Otto Appocalyse
The absurdity of South Koreans' enthusiasm for describing Goguryeo as their ancestors is as ridiculous as Charlemagne's ancestor of the Germans. You can't make an ancestor of a country that is not born in present-day South Korea, where most of the country is not in South Korea, and whose scxt is completely different from that of South Korea. The only relationship between your ancestors and Goguryeo is that Goguryeo would periodically go south to plunder you as slaves and export them to the Central Plains Dynasty, and the "Silla Handmaiden" was a very sought-after servant commodity since the Han Dynasty.
韩国人热情地将高句丽描述为他们的祖先的荒谬程度，就像德国人将查理曼大帝视为祖先一样可笑。你不能将一个不在现代韩国境内出生的国家视为祖先，该国大部分地区不在韩国境内，其文字也与韩国完全不同。你们的祖先与高句丽唯一的关系是高句丽会定期南下掠夺你们作为奴隶，并将他们出口到中原王朝，而“新罗婢女”自汉朝以来就是一种非常抢手的仆人商品。
Aaron Cho
That makes no sense. Goguryeo is a part of Korean history - there is no debate about this. It's 100% a part of Korean cultural identity. You're confusing ethnic/cultural legacy and modern statehood.
这毫无道理。高句丽是韩国历史的一部分——这一点无可争议。它100%是韩国文化认同的一部分。你混淆了民族/文化遗产和现代国家地位。
Charles Houghton
我称之为：承认贼是父亲;韩国人对那些祖先这样做有权利吗，高句丽，一个古老的中国少数民族政权，各种侵略韩国和朝鲜的祖先，实际上被他们承认为祖先;真的很有趣
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