红迪：中国的刷掌支付

@ManagerOfLove
In Germany we pay with the same technology as in the roman empire

在德国，我们用和罗马帝国时期一样的技术付款。

@Kratzschutz
I'm German and in this case l love that we are so tech adverse (only in this case tho). Cash has way more advantages for me

（回复 @ManagerOfLove）我是德国人，在这种情况下，我喜欢我们如此抵触科技（不过只在这种情况下）。现金对我来说有更多优势。

@No-Procedure562
Cash is king.

（回复 @ManagerOfLove）现金为王。

@MisterMcZesty
Chunks of bronze or the denarius ?

（回复 @ManagerOfLove）是青铜块还是第纳尔银币诶？
（译者注：第纳尔银币是古罗马最广泛流通的银币之一，是古罗马货币体系的核心，在电影《角斗士》中时有出现）

@STFUnicorn_
Salt

（回复 @MisterMcZesty）盐。

@NinthParasite
Counterfeit bread.

（回复 @STFUnicorn_）假面包。

@Pyyric
The glorious legions of the emperor will take what they require

（回复 @STFUnicorn_）（罗马）皇帝的光荣军团将拿走他们所需的东西。

@Core_System
Holy shit

（回复 @Pyyric）我靠。

@herewegojagex
I went to Berlin and was shocked at how it was cash only, literally EVERYWHERE! After coming from London, it was such a backwards feeling as I’ve been paying with only my phone or Apple Watch for years. My wallet doesn’t even come out with me anymore.

（回复 @ManagerOfLove）我去了柏林，震惊地发现几乎所有地方都只收现金！
从伦敦过来后，感觉非常落后，因为我多年来一直只用手机或苹果手表付款。
我的钱包甚至都不带出门了。

@Charlem912
Must have been some time ago. I live in Germany and haven’t been using cash for years

（回复 @herewegojagex）那肯定是前一阵子的事了。我住在德国，已经好几年没用过现金了。

@herewegojagex
It was only two years ago.

（回复 @Charlem912）那只是两年前。

@Charlem912
I live in Frankfurt and that’s the norm here, too. Berlin always seems to be an anomaly compared to the other big cities in Germany I feel like

（回复 @herewegojagex）我住在法兰克福，这里也一样。我感觉柏林和德国其他大城市比起来总像个异类。

@SpecialistShot722
I was there like four years ago in between lockdowns, and the only place that didn't take my Mastercard was a lone food truck selling doner kebab. And I spent like a week there visiting all kinds of places and eating out all the time. I even paid at the supermarkets for 1 euro snacks shit with my card, tapping with my phone. Where did you struggle to pay with card? Matter of fact I have never bothered about cash in any of the big cities in Germany. This stereotype needs to die.

（回复 @Charlem912）我大概四年前封锁期间去过那里，唯一不收我万事达卡的地方是一家卖土耳其烤肉的独立餐车。
我在那里待了大概一周，逛了各种地方，一直都在外面吃饭。
我甚至在超市用我的卡，用手机轻触支付了1欧元的小吃。
你在哪里用卡支付遇到困难了？
事实上，我在德国任何一个大城市都没为现金烦恼过。
这种刻板印象该消失了。

@herewegojagex
Perhaps everywhere was a bit hyperbole of me. But seriously, it was a larger portion of establishments than I would have expected for a major European country. I don’t think it’s a stereotype at all as I experienced first hand that myself and if you look online it’s quite a common tourist comment.

（回复 @SpecialistShot722）也许说“所有地方”是我有点夸张了。
但说真的，只收现金的店铺比例比我对一个欧洲主要国家的预期要大。
我根本不认为这是刻板印象，因为我自己亲身经历过，而且如果你上网看，这是一个很常见的游客评论。

@invariantspeed
You can do the same in all western countries, but several still favor cash. Go to London and you can momentarily confuse a shopkeeper by pulling out cash, since they already activated the card machine.

（回复 @herewegojagex）在所有西方国家你都可以这么做，但有些国家仍然偏爱现金。
去伦敦，你掏出现金可能会让店员一时困惑，因为他们已经启动了刷卡机。

@free__coffee
I was just in berlin, i have no idea what that dude is talking about. I went to one donner spot that was cash only, but thats about the same ratio of places with cash only in the states

（回复 @herewegojagex）我刚在柏林，我不知道那家伙在说什么。我去了一个只收现金的土耳其烤肉店，但这和美国只收现金的地方的比例差不多。

@RoamingArchitect
I had the reverse experience in London. I remember walking into a bakery some 8 years ago and them explaining to me that they don't take cash. I had to use my credit card for a bloody sandwich. I'm still salty that my first ever credit card transaction was a sandwich because my mother didn't even have a credit card and they wouldn't take cash.
Although there are downsides to cash only societies. Today I found out that an atm I used regularly in the inner city closed down and I didn't have enough cash on me for dinner. So I had to scrounge up leftovers back home.

（回复 @herewegojagex）我在伦敦有相反的经历。
我记得大约8年前走进一家面包店，他们向我解释说他们不收现金。
我不得不用我的信用卡买一个该死的三明治。
我现在还耿耿于怀，因为我人生第一笔信用卡交易居然是买一个三明治，我母亲甚至没有信用卡，而他们不收现金。
虽然只收现金的社会也有缺点，今天我发现我市中心经常用的一个ATM机关闭了，而我身上没有足够的现金吃晚饭，所以我只好回家凑合吃剩饭了。

@jl2352
It takes getting used to. I live in London and find it bizarre in some countries I can’t pay for things with just my phone. I rarely carry a card, and even more rarely carry cash.
Contactless is just so much faster and more convenient than the hassle of managing cash.

（回复 @RoamingArchitect）这需要习惯。我住在伦敦，发现在一些国家我不能只用手机付款，感觉很奇怪。
我很少带卡，更少带现金。
非接触式支付比管理现金的麻烦要快得多、方便得多。

@NihiloEx
I live in India. Here, the government routinely turns off mobile networks if there's any public unrest. It also does so if there's a job examination. For example, here and here. All those who want to pay using their phones during such times are fucked.

（回复 @jl2352）我住在印度。在这里，只要有任何公众骚乱，政府就会例行关闭移动网络。
如果有职业考试，它也会这样做。例如，这里和这里。
所有那些在那种时候想用手机支付的人就完蛋了。

@clarenceboddickered
Countdown to increased dehandifications

“去手化”增加倒计时。

@Old_Lead_2110
You can change your password, you can change your pincode - but you cannot change your palm. If stolen somehow then there is no way back

（回复 @clarenceboddickered）你可以改你的密码，你可以改你的PIN码——但你不能改你的手掌。
如果不知怎么被偷了，那就没法回头了。

@PrismaticDetector
This would be my concern exactly. Biometrics are not more secure because they are unique to you- once you're in the system, if there's a digital step at any point the process, they become trivial to copy and cannot be changed to correct the breach.

（回复 @Old_Lead_2110）这正是我担心的。生物识别技术并非因为对你独一无二而更安全——一旦你进入系统，如果在过程中的任何时候有数字步骤，它们就变得微不足道，容易复制，并且无法更改以纠正泄露。

@Rawrakai
Take this logic further and you'll realize that this is true for essentially any form of secret or passkey. It's not true that you "cannot change your palm" since it's likely stored in a modified digital form through a hashing function.
If your "hashed palm data" is stolen the auth provider would just have to add a new random salt to create a new hash.
If the attack comes earlier in the process like a picture of your hand, then i would expect the camera sensors to weed out malicious actors with things like heat sensors and other instruments that would force someone to create a nearly identical copy of a living human hand.
TLDR: Biometrics doesn't change anything for high-effort scams, and probably saves us from some low-effort scams like stealing credit cards or passwords which makes it a net positive.

（回复 @PrismaticDetector）把这个逻辑再推进一步，你会意识到这基本上对任何形式的秘密或密钥都适用。
说你“不能改变你的手掌”是不对的，因为它很可能是通过哈希函数以修改过的数字形式存储的。
如果你的“哈希化手掌数据”被盗，认证提供商只需添加一个新的随机盐值来创建一个新的哈希值。
如果攻击发生在过程的早期，比如一张你的手的照片，那么我期望摄像头传感器会用热传感器和其他仪器来剔除恶意行为者，这些仪器会迫使某人创建一个几乎与活人手一模一样的复制品。
太长不读版：生物识别技术对高成本的诈骗没什么改变，但可能能让我们免受一些低成本的诈骗，比如偷信用卡或密码，所以总的来说是利大于弊的。

@Kaeiaraeh
Also, if you really just, just disable palm payments on your account I guess?

（回复 @Rawrakai）还有，如果你真的……就只是在你的账户上禁用手掌支付，我猜？

@tommos
I wonder if scrotum wrinkles are unique...

（回复 @Kaeiaraeh）我想知道阴囊的皱纹是不是独一无二的……

@NotReallyJohnDoe
If someone stole your palm vein pattern from the computer they can’t really do much with it. They can’t present it as your palm unless they somehow construct an artificial palm with your vein pattern. Something that is extremely difficult/impossible and if you do it wrong you will immediately attract attention.
They could potentially present it as a man in the middle attack but if they had that level of access they wouldn’t need to bother.
Biometrics are used safely and securely all over the world. India has more than a billion people enrolled with face, fingerprint and iris.
The concern about “losing” your biometrics is overblown.

（回复 @Old_Lead_2110）如果有人从电脑上偷了你的手掌静脉图案，他们其实做不了什么。
他们无法把它当作你的手掌来呈现，除非他们不知怎么地用你的静脉图案构造一个人工手掌。
这是极其困难/不可能的，如果你做错了，会立刻引起注意。
他们可能会把它作为中间人攻击来呈现，但如果他们有那种级别的访问权限，他们就不必费这个劲了。
生物识别技术在世界各地都被安全地使用着。
印度有超过十亿人注册了面部、指纹和虹膜。
关于“丢失”你的生物识别信息的担忧实在是被夸大了。

@HappyAku800
You can cancel the feature

（回复 @Old_Lead_2110）你可以取消这个功能呀。

@vexir
I’ve been doing this at Whole Foods for years now…
Edit: everyone thinks I was making a shoplifting joke but i wasn’t! Pay with your palm has been a thing there for a while now

我已经在全食超市（译者注：全食超市系一家美国的天然食品和有机食品零售商——这样做很多年了……
编辑：大家都以为我在开顺手牵羊的玩笑，但我不是！用手掌支付在那里已经有一段时间了 。

@shantron5000
Yeah, the change happened with the Amazon buyout and was rolled out from there.
(Source: am Whole Foods employee.)

（回复 @vexir）是的，这个改变发生在亚马逊收购之后，并从那里推广开来。（来源：我是全食超市的员工。）

@skinnymean
To clarify: Amazon buyout occurred in 2017. This was rolled out much later in 2023 (tested in 2022). It’s due to Amazon but was not related to the buyout.
(Source: am a former Whole Foods Customer Service TL that worked pre-Amazon and stayed through the transition)

（回复 @shantron5000）澄清一下：亚马逊收购发生在2017年。这个是在晚得多的2023年推出的（2022年测试）。
这是因为亚马逊，但与收购无关。
（来源：我是一名曾在亚马逊收购前工作并经历了过渡期的前全食超市客服团队负责人）

@StrawberryLassi
The crazy thing is it still recognized my hand after I had surgery on one of my fingers.

（回复 @vexir）疯狂的是，在我一根手指做了手术后，它仍然能识别我的手。

@shantron5000
My understanding is that it’s primarily reading the features of your palm. Like a magic gypsy robot fortune teller, but instead it just takes your money and you still have to guess your future.

（回复 @StrawberryLassi）我的理解是，它主要是读取你手掌的特征。就像一个神奇的吉普赛机器人算命先生，但它只是拿走你的钱，你还得自己猜测你的未来。

@TheTrollinator777
Ahh, the old scan your palm walk out with free groceries trick.

（回复 @vexir）啊，古老的扫描手掌然后带着免费杂货走出去的把戏。

@Cowboywizzard
The old five finger discount

（回复 @vexir）古老的“五（指）折（扣）”（译者注：顺手牵羊的意思）呀。

@frequency8
It’s called Amazon One. It uses your palm signature and vein structure to recognize you. Pretty convenient.

（回复 @vexir）它叫做Amazon One。它用你的手掌特征和静脉结构来识别你，相当方便。

@skyycux
Also lots more biometric data to collect! Yay!

（回复 @frequency8）还有更多生物识别数据可以收集！耶！

@Sig-vicous
Thank you for shopping at Walmart, here is your emailed receipt. By the way, it looks like your blood pressure is a little high, should we schedule you an appointment with our cardiovascular department in aisle H22?

（回复 @skyycux）感谢您在沃尔玛购物，这是您的电子邮件收据。顺便说一下，看起来您的血压有点高，我们是否应该为您在H22过道的心血管科安排一个预约？

@Prestigious_Nobody45
yes actually, thanks for noticing

（回复 @Sig-vicous）是的，实际上，谢谢提醒。

@HaltAndCatchTheKnick
Right? Like that seems the real cost of this “convenience” (who doesn’t have their phone in their palm these days anyways?)

（回复 @skyycux）对吧？那似乎是这种“便利”的真正代价（反正现在谁的手里没拿着手机呢？）

@spartaman64
what are they going to do with my vein structure data?

（回复 @skyycux）他们要拿我的静脉结构数据做什么？

@RockItGuyDC
Yeah, I first saw them at the, I believe now defunct, Amazon Fresh stores. But Amazon moved them over to Whole Foods pretty quickly. I've never used one.

（回复 @vexir）是的，我第一次看到它们是在，我相信现在已经倒闭了的，亚马逊生鲜店里。
但亚马逊很快就把它们移到了全食超市，我从没用过。

@Training-Drive-6419
Amazon Fresh is still around. I go to the one in Irvine. Paying with my palm feels like I’m in the future. It’s much better (and fun!) than paying with Apple Wallet.

（回复 @RockItGuyDC）亚马逊生鲜还在，我去尔湾的那家，用手掌支付感觉像我在未来，比用苹果钱包支付好得多（也好玩！）。

@YourMatt
Every single time I'm at the checkout, I think it would be nice to do this, but I don't have time to do whatever setup it needs right now. Then I wave my watch across for payment, and I've paid with only slightly more effort than I would have spent by scanning my palm.
If scanning my palm automatically applies my prime account, then I think it would be worth it.

（回复 @vexir）每次我在结账时，我都觉得这样做会很好，但我现在没时间去做它需要的任何设置。
然后我挥动我的手表付款，我只比扫描手掌多花了一点点力气就付了款。
如果扫描我的手掌能自动应用我的Prime账户，那么我认为那将是值得的。

@Short_Primary_9118
Scanning your palm does auto apply your prime account..long time Amazon One user. Couple months ago their palm system was down for about a week or so so I scrambled for alternate payment at the time but definitely worth the convenience.

（回复 @YourMatt）扫描你的手掌确实会自动应用你的Prime账户……我是亚马逊一号的长期用户。
几个月前他们的手掌系统瘫痪了大约一周，所以我当时手忙脚乱地找替代支付方式，但绝对值得这份便利。

@MisterMcZesty
I set mine up at a tradeshow when it was still in testing, then a few years later my Whole Foods deployed the palm readers and it remembered me

（回复 @YourMatt）我是在一次展会上设置的，当时它还在测试中，几年后我的全食超市部署了手掌读取器，它还记得我。

@Several_Vanilla8916
I decided Amazon knows enough about me and passed on the palm payment.

（回复 @vexir）我决定亚马逊已经知道我足够多了，所以放弃了手掌支付。

@SockPuppet-47
I too registered my palm at Whole Foods and have used it for payment several times. I don't go often but it's fun to pay for my purchases that way.
I'm also a Amazon Prime member and have the Amazon credit card. The 5% cash back adds up. It also takes the sting out of the Whole Foods prices.

（回复 @vexir）我也在全食超市注册了我的手掌，并且用它付过几次款。
我不常去，但用那种方式为我的购物付款很有趣。
我也是亚马逊Prime会员，并且有亚马逊信用卡。
5%的现金返还加起来不少。它也减轻了全食超市价格的刺痛感。

@Sgt-Dert13
My Whole Foods has this. 

我的全食超市有这个。

@jackofslayers
Yea it is definitely not common but I have seen it in some random places.

（回复 @Sgt-Dert13）是的，它肯定不常见，但我随机地在几个地方见过。

@arrius01
I have no interest or need to pay with a scan of my palm every time I want a drink or some other small nonsense. This is not a quality of life improvement. This is clearly surveillance masquerading as life improvement technology

我没兴趣也没必要每次想买杯饮料或其他小玩意儿时都用手掌扫描来支付，这不是生活质量的改善，这显然是伪装成生活改善技术的监视。

@404-tech-no-logic
Yep. They now have a database with your info and fingerprints.The real risk is data collection

（回复 @arrius01）是的。他们现在有了一个包含你信息和指纹的数据库。真正的风险是数据收集。

@superschwick
Goes a little deeper too. One of the important factors in authentication of any type (very much including authentication for payment, which a card or apparently hand shape can be) is that it is mutable.
If your password is compromised, or your card number is stolen, you can get a new password or card. See what can be done if your hand data gets stolen. good luck.

（回复 @404-tech-no-logic）还可以再深入一点。任何类型认证（非常包括用于支付的认证，可以是一张卡或显然是手形）的一个重要因素是它是可变的。
如果你的密码被泄露，或你的卡号被盗，你可以得到一个新的密码或卡。
看看如果你的手部数据被盗能做什么。祝你好运。