巴西石油公司：驱动未来还是困守过去？| 金融时报纪录片

 
The oil giant is once again at the centre of government plans for economic growth and job creation. But Petrobras has a chequered past, including damaging corruption scandals and debt. Critics say it should stick to high-value oil production rather than expanding into refining and shipbuilding
 
这家石油巨头再次成为政府经济增长和就业计划的核心，但巴西石油公司有着复杂的历史，包括破坏性腐败丑闻和债务问题。批评者认为其应专注于高价值原油开采，而非拓展炼油和造船业务。
 
 
@drb4931
In Brazil even the past is uncertain.
 
在巴西，连过去的历史都是充满不确定性的。
 
@jucineibonamigo7105
The past is uncertain and the corruption in this government. Don't forget about this.
 
过去的历史充满变数，而本届政府的腐败问题也不容忽视。千万不要忘记这一点。
 
@samuelsoares6230
As the saying goes, Brazil is not for amateurs.
 
正如俗话所说：巴西这个国家可不是给业余人士准备的。
 
@javiesdamon611
Wow. Petrobras really is a giant in Brazil. I didn't know it went from being the most indebted to paying the biggest dividends in the world. That's wild.
 
哇，巴西石油公司真的是巴西的巨无霸企业。我原来不知道它从负债最多的企业变成了全球分红最多的公司，这个转变实在太疯狂了。
 
@okihiro22
Uncanny how people talk about Petrobras' almost unique deep-sea exploration expertise as if it sprouted from the ground or fell from the sky.
 
真是不可思议，人们谈论巴西石油公司近乎独一无二的深海勘探技术时，说得好像这些技术是从地里长出来或是从天上掉下来的。
 
@brazilstreets7955
No, the risk taking criticized is endeavouring in non core business that failed massively before and opened doors for mega corruption.
 
不是的，受到批评的是那些在非核心业务领域的冒险行为，这些业务过去遭遇过重大失败，并且为大规模的腐败打开了方便之门。
 
@Breno1234-q3q
Nope, Petrobras DID NOT benefit from fueling BILLIONS of dollars into political friendly regions for no reason despite electoral gains.
Petrobras DID NOT benefit from needing to use national components, only oligarchs close from the cleptocracy that reigned Brazil during Lula and Dilma governments.
 
不对，巴西石油公司并没有因为向政治友好地区毫无理由地投入数十亿美元而获益——尽管这样做带来了选举优势。
巴西石油公司也没有因为必须使用国产零部件而获益，真正获益的是那些在卢拉和迪尔玛政府时期，与盗贼统治集团关系密切的寡头们。
 
@macdonalddube5189
To be fair when risk doesn't pay off that's how most reasonable people react .
 
公平地说，当风险没有获得回报时，大多数理智的人都会做出这样的反应。
 
@okihiro22
@macdonalddube5189 I mean fair in the sense that most people probably shouldn't run companies worth multi-billion usd hehe
not every risk taken is gonna pay off. it is easy to point out in retrospect but essentially impossible to know in advance which will or won't.
large and strategic companies like petrobras should absolutely take forward-looking risk. it should be done with proper assessment and accountability measures that have to be constantly improved and upxed but that cannot mean getting stuck on short-sighted conceptions of whatever 'core business' stands for, which is pretty much the talking point highlighted on the video and what was originally being criticized in this thread.
 
@macdonalddube5189 我的意思是公平在于大多数人可能确实不应该管理价值数十亿美元的公司，呵呵。
不是每一个冒险都会获得回报。事后诸葛亮很容易，但要提前预知哪些会成功哪些会失败基本上是不可能的。
像巴西石油公司这样的大型战略企业，绝对应该承担前瞻性的风险。这需要完善的评估和问责机制，并且要不断改进更新，但不能因此就固步自封于"核心业务"这种短视的概念——这正是视频强调的观点，也是这个讨论串最初批评的内容。
 
@macdonalddube5189
@okihiro22 Does an important destinction not exist between the deep sea exploration risk taking and using petrobas to build ships or or factories ?. The Critical issue is about the fact that the risk should not be too far removed from Petrobras's core competency .surely that is a reasonable criticism ?
 
@okihiro22 难道深海勘探的冒险与巴西石油公司造船或建工厂之间不存在重要的区别吗？关键问题在于承担的风险不应该离巴西石油公司的核心能力太远，这难道不是一个合理的批评吗？
 
@yasinhy
If Petrobras has lost US$6 bn in its refining business, the Brazilian population made far larger profit than that. Imagine a single parent who takes their children to/from school, going to work is unable to afford gas for their cars. Imagine the hardworking Brazilian with minimum wages without a car! The productivity that Brazilian economy has made is far larger than Petrobras's US$6 bn loss.
 
如果巴西石油公司在炼油业务上损失了60亿美元，那么巴西民众获得的收益要远远大于这个数字。想象一下一个单亲家长每天接送孩子上学、上班却加不起汽油的情形。想象一下那些拿着最低工资却买不起车的勤劳的巴西人！巴西经济因此获得的生产力的提升要远远超过巴西石油公司那60亿美元的损失。
 
@tariqquibir5183
@okihiro22 This is not a simple corruption of small consortiums, whose affected ones are stakeholders. All of those partakers were in promiscuity with taxpayer money from which consultation wasn't sought.
Administrating ventures are always opposed to administrating the public, rarely are the occasions which the latter is scourged, therefore their risk sensitivity is microscopic.
That helps, in conclusion, to expound the backdrop which most of the taxpayers had unwittingly participated in, that is to say, politiká isn't unanimous, the minority pays the embarrassment.
 
@okihiro22 这不是小型财团的简单的，受影响的是利益相关方的腐败。所有这些参与者都在滥用纳税人的钱，而且完全没有征求民意。
管理企业总是与管理公众利益相冲突，后者很少受到严厉的批评，因此他们对风险的敏感度微乎其微。
这最终有助于解释大多数纳税人在不知不觉中参与的背景，也就是说政治不是全体一致的，少数人承担了尴尬的后果。
 
@tariqquibir5183
If you exclude the indulged criminal factions, the burdensome levies on importations, the censorship, the recent wrongdoing on pension schemes, the unpaid credit given to nations such as Cuba and Venezuela, all of them scrapped from the equation, indeed, we can observe wealth, though indolent and unlikely to increase exponentially.
 
如果将那些被纵容的犯罪集团、沉重的进口关税、审查制度、近期养老金计划的违规操作，以及给予古巴和委内瑞拉等国的无偿贷款都排除在外，那么我们确实能看到财富的存在，尽管这些财富增长缓慢且不太可能实现指数级提升。
 
@Robbielazar
Petrobras might be investing on infrastructure again and that is a good thing obviously, but the problem is everything that is done by the state in Brazil is plagued by corruption and waste of money. It always been like that and it's not going to be any different this time around. Brazil is in shambles, crumbling infrastructure, corrupt government in all levels, crime infested and so on.
 
巴西石油公司可能再次投资基础设施建设，这显然是件好事，但问题在于巴西政府所做的一切都深受腐败和资金浪费的困扰。历来如此，这次也不会有什么不同。巴西现在一片混乱，基础设施破败不堪，各级政府腐败成风，犯罪活动猖獗，诸如此类。
 
@zapfanzapfan
Well, of course London based investors obxt when Brazil tries to use it's natural resources for the betterment of Brazil...
 
嗯，当巴西试图利用本国自然资源来改善国家状况时，伦敦的投资者当然会反对...
 
@marcorodrigues4584
Brazilians always point to international interests as the cause of their problems, but the truth is that corruption is home-grown, endemic, and endless. That hurts!!
 
巴西人总是把问题归咎于国际利益集团，但事实是腐败是本土滋生的、普遍存在的且无止境的。这真让人痛心！！
 
@renancosta876
Of the 5 largest oil companies in the world, 4 are state-owned... Considering the 25 largest oil companies in the world, 19 are state-owned. So Brasil and Petrobras are in the right way...
 
在全球五大石油公司中，有四家是国有企业...扩展到全球25大石油公司，其中有19家是国有的。所以巴西和巴西石油公司走的路是正确的...
 
@robertoalvarenga3918
Funny how the Financial Times always pretends to be neutral, but when a Global South country uses its state-owned oil company to foster domestic development, it suddenly becomes "inefficient," "politicized," and a "threat to investors." Petrobras is more than a company — it's a tool of sovereignty and industrial policy. And that seriously bothers those who want everything privatized and serving foreign capital.
They rant about Petrobras' "monopoly," but didn't make a single video criticizing U.S. protectionism, Trump's tariffs, or Biden's trillion-dollar subsidies. Coincidence? Or complicity?
In the end, they don't really care about Brazilian consumers or the economy — they care that Brazil is trying, even timidly, to build a sovereign national project.
As Celso Furtado might say, dependency is perpetuated when we lose the ability to think in our own terms. And as Ha-Joon Chang reminds us, "developed countries did not get where they are now through the policies and the institutions that they recommend to developing countries today."
 
讽刺的是《金融时报》总是假装中立，但当全球南方国家利用国有石油公司促进国内发展时，它就突然变成了"低效"、"政治化"和"对投资者的威胁"。巴西石油不仅仅是一家公司——它是主权和产业政策的工具，这让那些希望一切私有化并为外国资本服务的人非常不安。
他们大肆抨击巴西石油的"垄断"，却没有制作任何视频批评美国的保护主义、特朗普的关税或拜登的万亿补贴。这是巧合还是共谋？
说到底，他们并不真正关心巴西消费者或经济——他们关心的是巴西正在尝试的（哪怕是小心翼翼地）建立一个主权国家项目。
正如塞尔索·富尔塔多所说，当我们失去用自己的方式思考的能力时，依赖性就会延续。正如张夏准提醒我们的那样，"发达国家并不是通过他们今天向发展中国家推荐的政策和制度达到现在的位置的。"
 
@stenioal
Petrobras is just a headache for the Brazilian people, who continue to treat it as a government issue due to historical patriotism. However, it does not fulfill its purpose of regulating domestic gas prices, as it is not a fully state-owned company and cannot set prices without harming the interests of private investors.
 
巴西石油公司只是给巴西人民带来了头痛的问题，由于历史爱国主义，他们继续将其视为政府事务。然而，它并没有实现调节国内汽油价格的初衷，因为它不是完全国有的公司，它不能在不损害私人投资者利益的情况下设定价格。
 
@henriquemorais1516
Nothing new here. Foreign investors wishing petrobras goes to zero to buy the best company in Brazil. Try again
 
这里没什么新鲜的，外国投资者希望巴西石油公司破产以便收购巴西最好的公司。再试一次吧。
 
@rodrigo_dmatoss
Petrobras is once again making heavy investments in Brazil. Ports are being modernized, vessels with domestic components are being contracted, fertilizer production plants, clean energy with biofuels and SAF, etc. You criticize Petrobras because you want to see it as just an oil well driller and uncompetitive just to pay dividends.
 
巴西石油公司又一次在巴西进行重大的投资。港口正在现代化，它们订购了采用国产部件的船舶，建设化肥工厂，发展生物燃料和可持续航空燃料等清洁能源。你们批评巴西石油公司是因为你们希望它只是一个只为支付股息的，钻油井的、没有竞争力的公司。
 
@thanggnguyen
The problems at Petro are common at all State Owned Enterprises. That's because most senior executives are political appointees, not of their competence.
 
巴西石油公司的问题在所有国有企业中都很常见，这是因为大多数高管都是政治任命而非凭能力上任。
 
@noel400im
Petrobras should be fully privatized along the same original scheme as France's Total: getting the state and its agencies out of the capital but reserving a golden share for the state.
 
巴西石油公司应该按照法国道达尔公司最初的方案完全私有化：让国家及其机构退出资本，但为国家保留黄金股。
 
@sudi_cloud
What Lava Jato left behind wasn't just political rubble—it shattered the lives of thousands of professionals. I was working at an urban planning firm with a hard-won Petrobras contract when, overnight, everything collapsed. Engineers, architects, planners—we were all out of work, for years. That's why I don't see Lula's support for Petrobras as a mere electoral gesture aimed at pleasing his Northeastern base, as some have suggested. Rather, it strikes me as an effort to restore dignity and opportunity to a professional class that paid a heavy price for others' corruption. Reinvesting in Petrobras is not just about politics—it's about repairing the broader social and economic fabric torn apart by a deeply flawed and politically charged operation, whose consequences had more to do with electoral strategy than with moral accountability. That said, I found the video thoughtful and well produced.
 
"洗车行动"留下的不仅仅是政治废墟——它摧毁了成千上万专业人士的生活。我当时在一家城市规划公司工作，我们好不容易获得了巴西石油公司的合同，但一夜之间，一切都崩溃了。工程师、建筑师、规划师——我们都失业了，持续了多年。这就是为什么我不认为卢拉对巴西石油公司的支持仅仅是为了取悦他的东北部选民基础的选举姿态（就像有些人所说的那样）。相反，在我看来，这是为了恢复那些为他人的腐败付出沉重代价的专业阶层的尊严和机会。重新投资巴西石油公司不仅仅是政治问题——它关乎修复被一场存在严重缺陷且充满政治色彩的行动撕裂的更广泛的社会经济结构，这场行动的后果更多与选举策略而非道德问责有关。也就是说，我认为这个视频思考深入，制作精良。
 
@leandrosantana4705
Petrobras exports crude products from the pre-salt layer. But unfortunately it imports fuels from Russia to minimize inflationary impacts in Brazil. And this is due to a decision by the current federal government, just as the previous federal government did with fertilizers, and the current president continues to import these Russian products to Brazil.
 
巴西石油公司出口盐下层的原油产品，但不幸的是它从俄罗斯进口燃料以尽量减少对巴西通胀的影响。这是由于现任联邦政府的决定，就像上届联邦政府对化肥所做的那样，现任总统继续将这些俄罗斯产品进口到巴西。
 
@MarcelloGTorres
One should pay attention to the intricacies of legalese: Lula's conviction was not overturned, he was not cleared, and indeed was never declared not guilty, much less innocent.
What happened was that the Federal Supreme Court (STF in Portuguese), in quite a casuistic decision, went back on its own understanding and declared that the Lava-Jato conviction of Lula suffered from a jurisdictional error, and therefore was lifted on those grounds - the mother of all technicalities.
Last but not least, Lula's conviction was confirmed thrice over by the trial court, appellate court and the STJ, Portuguese for Superior Court of Justice - a close to but still lesser court to the STF.
 
我们应该注意法律术语的复杂性：卢拉的定罪没有被推翻，他也没有被宣告无罪，事实上他从未被宣布无罪，更不用说无辜了。
发生的事情是联邦最高法院(STF)在一个相当特殊的决定中推翻了自己的理解，宣布"洗车行动"对卢拉的定罪存在管辖权错误，因此基于这些理由被撤销——这是所有技术细节中最关键的一个。
最后但同样重要的是卢拉的定罪被初审法院、上诉法院和高等法院(STJ)三次确认，高等法院是仅次于联邦最高法院的法院。
 
@yasinhy
If Petrobras has lost US$6 bn in its refining business, the Brazilian population made far larger profit than that. Imagine a single parent who takes their children to/from school, going to work is unable to afford gas for their cars. Imagine the hardworking Brazilian with minimum wages without a car! The productivity that Brazilian economy has made is far larger than Petrobras's US$6 bn loss.
 
巴西石油公司在炼油业务上损失了60亿美元，但巴西人民获得的收益要远大于此。想象一个单亲家长接送孩子上学、上班却加不起油的情景。想象那些拿着最低工资却没有车的勤劳巴西人！巴西经济因此获得的生产力提升远超过巴西石油公司那60亿美元的损失。
 
@Kyle2k10
Vídeo de empresa de comunicação estrangeira, defensora do alto rentismo e dos interesses das petrolíferas deles e que se "esquece" que em todos os países do mundo são os governos que bancam os principais e pesados investimentos em infra-estrutura, com dinheiro público. Inclusive o da Inglaterra e até o dos States até hoje. Capital privado e empresário só entra em negócios sem risco, onde se gasta pouco e rende muito. Nada mais a dizer.
这是来自外国传媒公司的捍卫高利贷和他们的石油公司利益的视频，你们"忘记"了在世界各国，都是政府用公共资金为重大基础设施投资买单，包括英国甚至美国至今都是如此。私人和企业资本只会进入无风险、花费少回报高的业务。无需多言。
 
@MrJianmelo
What about ethanol? We have a great ethanol production, and it is sustenainable. But the price in Brazil between ethanol and gasoline are almost the same, because the ethanol price is connect with gasoline price. Crazy. Please make a video about it.
 
乙醇呢？我们有很好的乙醇生产，而且是可持续的。但巴西乙醇和汽油的价格几乎相同，因为乙醇价格与汽油价格挂钩。这太疯狂了。请制作一个关于这个的视频。
 
@joaovillardequeirozneto3846
It was the perfect storm, at the peak of its debt (investment to develop pre salt), skyrocketing dolar value and internationally lead car wash investigation. Petrobras survived, they didn't gave out Buzios field, nor Bolsonaro privatized it totally (he sold a part to middle east sheiks).
 
这是一场完美的风暴，债务达到了顶峰(开发盐下层的投资)、美元价值飙升和国际主导的"洗车"调查。巴西石油公司幸存下来了，他们没有放弃布兹奥斯油田，博索纳罗也没有完全将其私有化(他出售了一部分给中东酋长)。
 
@drissghaliauteur5880
It is a shame the program spoke so little about the Left's staggering implication in the corruption in Petrobras. This corruption almost ruined the company.
 
遗憾的是节目对左翼在巴西石油公司腐败中的惊人牵连谈得太少，这种腐败几乎毁了公司。
 
@DiegoAndradeMarujo
Well, the point is: Brazil wants to turn Petrobras into an Energy Enterprise, not just a fossil resources extractor....
 
好吧，关键是：巴西希望将巴西石油公司转变为能源企业，而不仅仅是化石资源开采商...
 
@paulopacifici
Investors are upset because they're not getting their 1,000,000% profit, as Petrobras is lowering gas prices for the Brazilian people.
This article is completely biased.
 
投资者感到不安，因为他们无法获得1000000%的利润，因为巴西石油公司正在为巴西人民降低汽油价格。
这篇文章百分百有偏见。
 
@zejean
For the smart guy, Chicago boy, Castello Branco who was the CEO of Petrobras, the refinery is not a big deal for Petrobras. Brazil needs to sell crude oil and buy gasoline and diesel from the USA. That's soo smart and profitable! What a genius!
 
对于巴西石油公司前CEO、聪明的芝加哥男孩卡斯特罗·布兰科来说，炼油厂对巴西石油公司不是什么大事。巴西需要出售原油并从美国购买汽油和柴油，多么聪明和有利可图啊！他真是个天才！
 
@pauloziliani260
In Brazil the expensive fuel comes from a private refinery company based on North of Brazil, the information passed by this gentleman is wrong, Petrobras has also expertise in refining oil as its proved over the years. The market is opened for anyone to compete but nobody wants to, because the competitors know the Petrobras excellence on what they are doing and don't dare to compete here.
 
在巴西，昂贵的燃料来自巴西北部的一家私人炼油公司，这位先生传递的信息是错误的，巴西石油公司也有炼油的专业知识，这是多年来得到证明了的。市场对所有竞争者开放，但没有人愿意，因为竞争对手知道巴西石油公司在他们所做的事情上表现出色，不敢在这里竞争。
 
@burgomestre39
The report failed to point out that one of the reasons for Petrobras to invest in refining is due to the necessity of providing the company (and the country) with refineries with capability to refine certain types of crude oil extracted in Brazil's coastline. Refining Brazilian oil inside the country significantly reduces the impact in the current account of Brazil's balance of payments, by reducing the need to importing much more valued products, such as gasoline, diesel and jet fuel.
 
报告没有指出巴西石油公司投资炼油的原因之一是需要为公司(和国家)提供能够精炼巴西海岸线开采的特定类型原油的炼油厂。在国内精炼巴西石油，通过减少进口更高价值产品(如汽油、柴油和航空燃料)的需求，显著减少了巴西国际收支经常账户的影响。
 
@ralphw2471
You brought it to the point, thanks for this summary. You should have mentioned, that they build a plant based refinery of PE as well. Everyone expects that we will not use oil in 20 years, but as oil is used for many things it will be used even in 50years, but a I might not be able to prove this by myself.
 
你说到点子上了，谢谢这个总结。你应该提到他们还建造了一个基于PE的炼油厂。每个人都认为我们20年后不会使用石油，但由于石油用途广泛，甚至50年后仍会使用，虽然我自己可能无法证明这一点。