像哈佛这样的美国大学，为成千上万的外国学生提供服务，这合理吗？为什么美国大学不关心美国学生

Shane Ryoo
Is it appropriate for US universities, like Harvard, to be catering to thousands of foreigners?
Yes. We charge them for the privilege. For a university like Harvard, it’s a crapload of money per undergrad student.
Why don’t American universities care about American students?
They do. If the American students can hack it. Which most of them can’t.
The U.S. is less than 5% of the world population, and it’s definitely subpar when it comes to valuing education and facts. The bulk of smart, intelligent, and driven people were born somewhere else.
I was a workaholic genius growing up in middle America. But in world-level tech ability, I’m nothing special. As a natural born American, I was in the minority in graduate school and in elite academia (of which I was mediocre at best). The U.S. is better off convincing foreigners to change their nationalities, as it’s done for over 200 years.

像哈佛这样的美国大学是否应该为成千上万的外国学生提供服务？
是的。我们向留学生收取了高额学费。对于哈佛这样的大学来说，每个国际本科生带来的收入是非常可观的。
为什么美国大学不关心美国学生？
它们是关心的，只要美国学生能达到入学标准。但大多数美国人达不到。
美国人口还不到世界人口的5%，而在重视教育和事实方面确实表现不佳。世界上最聪明、最有才华、最有动力的人大多出生在美国以外的地方。
我在美国中部长大，是个工作狂型的天才少年。但在世界级的技术能力方面，我并不特别。作为一个土生土长的美国人，我在研究生院和精英学术圈里都是少数派。美国过去200多年来之所以强大，是因为它成功吸引了大量外国人改变国籍来到这里。

Sheepard
US education is a big US export item. Trump wanted to increase US export to restore trade balance. So why on earth would he want to kill one of the important export industry?
Also, it attracts the smartest people from around the world, who end up creating new ideas (innovation, businesses) for America. A large portion of the US economy (and many-many inventions and technologies) are directly related to foreign people working or learning at US universities. My country of origin is very proud of how many inventors and Nobel prize winners are from there. Pretty much all of them got it while researching at US universities, and benefiting the US. The US got great and powerful largely because of this brain-drain, which Trump is reversing.
I hope you like the idea of China becoming the world leading power in technology, while the US is left behind.

美国的教育是一个重要的出口产业。特朗普曾希望增加美国出口以恢复贸易平衡。那他为何要扼杀这样一个关键的出口行业呢？
此外，美国大学吸引了世界各地最聪明的人，他们在学习期间为美国提供了新的想法、创新点和企业。美国经济的很大一部分（以及无数发明和技术）都直接与在美留学或工作的外国人有关。我的祖国视本土发明家和诺贝尔奖得主的人数，引以为傲——而这些人几乎全是在美国大学研究期间获得这些成就并反过来造福美国的。美国之所以变得强大，很大程度上正是因为这种“人才吸引效应”，而特朗普正在逆转这一趋势。
我希望你能接受中国成为世界首屈一指的科技领先大国，而美国被甩在后面的未来。

Aj. Raymond James Ritchie
Go to a weekly seminar at Cornell or similar university and look at the audience. Scientific research and R&D is for all practical purposes entirely dependent on foreign Masters and PhD students and post-docs. It is not by choice, it is because of the talent available.
Go to a highschool science class in the USA or look at a textbook. The poor bastards are not getting anything like the science and maths required for a career in STEM. Even worse there is no-one to tell them without risking their job.
I spent 5ys as a post-doc in the USA.
If you do not like what I am saying just go and see what is going on and has been going on for decades.

去康奈尔大学或其他类似大学参加一次每周的研讨会，看看听众是谁。实际上，美国的科研和研发已经完全依赖外国的硕士生、博士生和博士后研究人员。这不是出于选择，而是因为本地缺乏相应的人才。
去看看美国高中的科学课或者他们的课本吧。这些孩子根本没学到从事STEM职业所需的科学和数学知识。更糟的是，没人敢告诉他们这些真相，否则可能会丢掉饭碗。
我曾在美做过五年的博士后研究。
如果你不喜欢我说的话，那就亲自去看看实际情况吧——这一切已经持续了几十年。

Agnes Kurzaj
It's not abaut catering to anyone it's about atracting the best and the brightest.
Harvard is very hard to get into. There is a tremendous competition. For one you have to have pretty much straight A’s and a GPA of at least 4.2 then you have to write your SATS and do well in that.

这并不是关于迎合任何人的问题，而是关于吸引最优秀、最聪明的人才的问题。

International students for one pay more in tuition than their American classmates. It amounts to about $86.705 a year totaling around $346.820 for a four year undergraduate degree.

哈佛大学很难进。竞争极其激烈。你至少需要接近全A的成绩，GPA至少4.2，还要参加SAT考试并取得好成绩。国际学生支付的学费比美国本土学生更高。每年大约要花费86,705美元，四年本科学费总计约346,820美元。

Top five countries that make up %27 of the entire student body are from China, Canada, India, South Korea and the UK. Those students are enrolled in some of the best programs in Phisics, Biological Science, Mathematics, Computer Science and Technology. With a lot of them completing their comprehensive doctoral programs in engineering and medicine.

国际学生中占总人数27%的前五个国家分别是中国、加拿大、印度、韩国和英国。这些学生就读于顶尖的物理、生物科学、数学、计算机科学和技术项目，其中很多人完成了工程和医学领域的博士课程。

One would think that the future of the nation relies on the education of its youth as well as actacting the brightest talent that can eventually contribute to the growth and prosperity of your economy and the country over all.

人们会认为，一个国家的未来取决于对青年的教育，同时也取决于吸引全球最聪明的人才，从而推动国家经济和社会的整体发展与繁荣。

Nothing is stopping any American students from attending Harvard or any other prestigious organization. All you need is for your score and grades to be better than those of the applicants who are competing against you.

没有任何东西阻止美国学生进入哈佛或其他顶尖学府。只要你分数和成绩比其他申请者更好就行。

Not sure what is the exact philosophy behind expelling international students. Besides saying goodbye to their money and a tremendous talent they bring and contributions they make. Unless your goal is to burn the school down, lower it's standards, say fuck you to education in general, kill the innovation and progress in order to empose some new laws and regulations that will forever holt the growth and ability for your country to compete on a world stage.

我不太明白驱逐国际学生的背后到底遵循着怎样的逻辑。除非你的目标是放弃他们带来的金钱以及巨大的人力资源，放弃他们带来的贡献，放弃教育产业本身，扼杀创新与进步，以推行一些新法规来永久阻碍国家在全球舞台上的竞争力。

Not to mention you are successfuly destroying your educational system from the ground up. I doubt there will be much of the local talent to even be able to get one foot into Harvard let alone complete a degree. But Donny has a plan I bet it's vengeance and jealousy driven but it's a plan. Have fun with that one. Hopefully Harvard will hold up. If not Canada has top notch universities and we would love to get our hands on some of that talent and the money that comes with it.

更不用说你们正在从根基上摧毁自己的教育系统。届时，恐怕连本地人才都难以迈入哈佛的大门，更别说完成学位了。不过我相信川普肯定有个计划，估计是出于报复和嫉妒。祝你好运吧。希望哈佛能坚持下去。如果不行的话，加拿大的大学也很棒，我们很乐意接收这些人才和随之而来的资金。

Denis Rubin
About ten years ago I was asked to speak to an evening class of aspiring screenwriters at Cal State Northridge.
When I arrived I went to the wrong room and walked in on an engineering class. As far as I could tell, every student was of East or South Asain descent.
When I found the correct classroom nearly every student was white. These were self sexted subjects to study. Make of it what you will.

大约十年前，我受邀去加州州立大学北岭分校（Cal State Northridge）的一个晚间编剧班演讲。  
当我到达时，我走错了教室，误入了一个工程学课堂。据我观察，几乎每个学生都是东亚或南亚裔的背景。  
后来找到正确的教室后，发现那里的学生几乎全是白人。这些是他们自己选择的专业方向。至于其中意味着什么，就由你来判断吧。

Frank Lucrezi
What is going there are some of the best and brightest the world has to offer. In normal times some of them will choose to stay here. It gives us access to get intelligent people to stay here. Why worry about Harvard Our local hospital has a lot of foreign born doctors. Mostly because our people cant afford to go to even our state schools over the year the tax cuts always came with cuts to education so the cost went up until they are unaffordable and the students ending up with school debt they might get paid off before they die. Funny with that the debt always went up. When the state of PA did it i have no idea where the money went. I do know our school property taxes are threw the roof.
We like to claim we built the bomb we put a man on the moon. Who did it were people from other countries. Right now we dispute science because it does fit peoples religious beliefs.

发生的情况是，一些世界上最聪明、最有才华的人来到这里学习。在正常情况下，其中一部分会选择留下来。这给了我们吸引聪明人才留下的机会。为什么要担心哈佛？我们当地的医院有很多外国出生的医生。主要是因为我们的民众已经负担不起进入哪怕是本地公立系统州立大学的费用了。多年来税收减免总是伴随着教育经费削减，导致学费上涨到难以承受的程度，学生们背负着可能一辈子都还不清的学生贷款。有趣的是，债务却一直在增加。当宾夕法尼亚州这么做时，我根本不知道钱都花到哪里去了。我只知道我们的房产税已经高得离谱。  
我们喜欢声称是我们造出了原子弹，是我们把人送上了月球。但当时做这些事的人其实很多来自其他国家。现在我们质疑科学，仅仅是因为它不符合某些人的宗教信仰。

Anthony Curtis Adler
The word university comes from the Latin universitas, which means “whole.” A university is, ideally, a whole world unto itself: not only where people live and study, but where they can find a microcosm of the entire world of possibilities for which students are being formed—possibilities that constitute the highest goods that human culture has to offer. This, at least, is the ideal, as imperfectly realized as it is. In the university, you can experiment with possibilities of life that, when you become a full-fledged adult, will require the commitment of an entire life. In the university, you can encounter a wide range of peoples—as a full-fledged adult, your life will collapse into a narrower and narrower, ever more stifling sphere.
Our world does not consist just in Americans. There are other countries. The opportunity to encounter people from other countries is a privilege afforded to American university students.
Moreover, though, foreign students are an important source of revenue for American universities. Many universities only survive, or only prosper, due to this revenue.
If the government were genuinely concerned with American students’ access to education, there are thousands of things they could do. Fighting a war against international admissions is not one of these things.

“University”这个词源自拉丁语“universitas”，意思是“整体”。理想中的大学，应该是一个自成一体的小世界：不仅是人们生活和学习的地方，更是学生可以接触到人类文化所能提供的一切可能性的地方——这些可能性构成了最高层次的文化价值。至少这是大学的理想，尽管实现得并不完美。在大学里，你可以尝试各种人生的可能性，而当你真正成为一个成年人时，这些可能性将需要你用一生去承诺。在大学里，你能遇到各种各样的人；而当你真正长大成人后，你的生活会逐渐被限制在一个越来越狭窄、令人窒息的空间中。  
我们的世界不仅仅由美国人组成。还有其他国家的存在。能与来自不同国家的人交流，是一种美国大学生所享有的特权。  
此外，国际学生也是美国大学的重要收入来源。许多大学之所以能够生存甚至繁荣，正是因为这部分收入。  
如果政府真的关心美国学生的教育机会问题，他们可以有一千件事供选择。但打击国际招生绝不是其中之一。

Andrew Court
In this country international students, who pay the university “retail” for the course, help the university make money to subsidise the cost for the locals / citizens..Also offering some places on courses is part of this country foreign aid effort.. Also some courses, which are very specialist in nature may not be able to be run because there are not enough local students to warrant it… but a few fee paying international students can bring the class numbers up!
The bottomline is there is good money in foreign students !

在这个国家，国际学生支付的是“全价”学费，他们的存在帮助大学赚取利润，从而补贴本地学生/公民的教育花费。同时，提供一些名额给国际学生也是这个国家对外援助的一部分。还有一些非常专业化的课程，如果只依靠寥寥无几的本地学生支撑班级人数，这些课甚至无法开设。但如果有几个付费的国际学生加入，就能凑够开课人数！  
归根结底，招收国际学生是一件赚钱的事！

Bill Fischer
You do know that American students also travel abroad to study at places like Oxford, the Sorbonne, Italian Universities (such as Milan), also in Madrid, Lisbon, Athens, Berlin, Vienna, and even a number of “developing” countries, right?
And unlike our current political leaders, most of those countries educate and help our exchange and study abroad students until they come home mostly with lasting, good memories.
Our universities don’t “cater” to foreigners. We exchange with other countries. They usually pay non-resident fees to attend school here which are usually higher fees than what U.S. students pay.
Oh and one more thing: If we have an American student get ill in the UK or become sick or injured in France, Spain, Italy, Sweden, Denmark, Austria or Peru and at the same time a foreign student at Harvard also becomes sick or injured, guess who gets a much better deal on getting treated?

你知道吗，美国学生也会出国去牛津、索邦大学、意大利的大学（比如米兰）、马德里、里斯本、雅典、柏林、维也纳，甚至一些“发展中国家”留学？  
而且与我们目前的政治领导人不同，大多数国家都会善待并帮助前来交换和留学的美国学生，让他们带着美好的回忆回国。  
我们的大学并没有“迎合”外国人。我们是在与其他国家进行学术交流。他们通常要支付非居民学费，这种学费通常比美国本土学生更高。  
哦对了还有一件事：如果一个美国学生在英国生病，或者在法国、西班牙、意大利、瑞典、丹麦、奥地利或秘鲁受伤，与此同时还有一个在哈佛读书的外国学生也生了病或受了伤，猜猜谁能得到更好的治疗？

Daniel Ruddman
Harvard is a private organization. It receives federal funds for research and contracts, but not for its undergraduate studies. If Harvard wants to sell its services to people who do not have US citizenship, they are allowed to.
The US government grants student visas. It doesn’t have to. If we don’t want colleges teaching people without US citizenship, then we can repeal the student visa. That would, of course, affect all schools and not just Harvard.
As others have said, the US benefits from training foreign students. We also benefit from having private organizations that can make their money however they see fit.
Many governments decide to take over ownership of private businesses. When they do, the term is they “socialized” the industry. Do we really want to socialize education?

哈佛是一所私立机构。它获得联邦资金用于研究和合同项目，但不包括本科教育。如果哈佛想向未拥有美国国籍的人出售其服务，它是有这个权利的。  
美国政府发放学生签证。它也可以不发。如果我们不想让大学教那些非美国国籍的学生，我们可以废除学生签证制度。当然，这会影响所有学校，不只是哈佛。  
正如其他人所说，美国从培训国际学生中受益。我们也从拥有可以自由运作的私营组织中受益。  
很多国家决定接管私营企业。当它们这么做的时候，我们称之为“国有化”。我们真的也想学它们那样把教育国有化吗？

Shankar MN
In my experience, at the master's and PhD levels (engg or pure life sciences), there are hardly any American takers (in my master's class there were around 5% Americans). At the undergraduate level (bachelors ), American students are a clear majority.

根据我的经验，在硕士和博士阶段（工程或基础生命科学领域），几乎没有美国学生愿意选择这些方向（我读硕士时，班上大约只有5%是美国人）。而在本科阶段（学士学位），美国学生则明显占多数。

I do not know if the low american head count in advanced courses can be attributed to the lack of interest, need or test performance.

我不确定高级课程中美国学生人数少是否是因为缺乏兴趣、需求，还是考试成绩的问题。

The majority in my classes were Asians. I think it will not be possible for such higher degree classes to function without international students. Bear in mind that univs run entire towns/cities with their student population.

我所在班级的学生大多数是亚洲人。我认为，如果没有国际学生，这些高层次的研究生课程根本无法正常运作。别忘了，大学的学生群体往往支撑着整个城镇或城市的运转。

That being said, it would be incorrect to say that American universities “do not care” about American students. It is a wide-open international competition that all are welcome to take part in. There are some stringent requirements to get into the top univs - The ivy leagues have been a holy grail reserved for the best of the best even a century ago! Nothing has changed.

话虽如此，说美国大学“不关心”美国学生是不完全准确的。这是一个开放的国际竞争体系，所有人都可以参与。进入顶尖大学的要求非常严格——常春藤联盟早在一百年前就是全球最优秀人才的圣地，这一点至今未变。

Along comes our knight in shining armor who:

然而现在来了这样一位“闪亮骑士”：

1. Is an indicted felon
2. Hires incompetent cronies to important/pivotal positions so he can remain untouched and make a mockery of the government apparatus
3. Grants unconditional pardon to criminals he is pally with, thereby making a mockery of the law and the public servants who dedicated time and effort to establishing culpability
4. Threatens nations who have been steadfast US allies for decades
5. Is corrupt beyond words... and the entire globe knows it now
6. Undermines every single thing/idea/premise America stands for
7. Has reneged on pretty much every promise that he had made in order to get elected.
8. Was heavily docked by the US court system for scamming gullible students over his "trump university" claims, which was forced to shut down.
9. Convinced the majority with specious reasoning to settle personal scores (ex. the china and canada spat was due to fentanyl and the Harvard and Columbia spat was due to anti-semitism and “woke ness”, the Mexico spat was due to “very bad people” coming in “very large numbers” from there! Mind you, none of these are new problems. But he has made all of them emergent issues in order to circumvent congress debate)

1. 他是一名曾经被起诉的重罪嫌疑犯  
2. 任命无能的亲信担任重要职位，以确保自己不受牵连，并让整个政府机构沦为笑柄  
3. 对与他关系密切的罪犯无条件赦免，使法律和为此付出努力的公务员变得毫无意义  
4. 威胁那些几十年来一直是美国坚定盟友的国家  
5. 腐败程度前所未有……全世界都知道这一点  
6. 破坏了美国所代表的一切理念  
7. 几乎违背了他为当选而做出的所有承诺  
8. 因其“特朗普大学”的虚假宣传，被美国法院裁定欺诈无辜学生，并被迫关闭  
9. 利用似是而非的理由说服大多数人只为满足自己的私怨（例如：与中国和加拿大的争端是因为芬太尼问题；与哈佛和哥伦比亚大学的争端是因为反犹主义和“政治正确”；与墨西哥的争端则是因为“非常坏的人”正“大量”从那里进来！请注意，这些问题都不是新出现的。但他却把这些变成了紧急议题，只是为了绕过国会辩论）

I just don't think it is in the best interest of the American public to place blind trust on this administration. Actions need to be challenged and debated more vigorously. Yes, it has to be endured; but I urge everyone to do their own research and not take these diktats as gospel. Up until now, all/most of these “executive orders” are personal scores being settled.

我实在不认为盲目信任这一届政府是符合美国公众最佳利益的。这些行为需要更有力地被挑战和讨论。是的，尽管我们现在必须忍受，但我呼吁每个人都要自己去做研究，不要把这些命令当作真理。迄今为止，几乎所有这些“行政命令”都不过是为了公报私仇而已。

Peace out!

和过去的美好光景说拜拜吧！

Daniel Maltz
All academic fields are international. All of the most prestigious universities around the world have international student bodies and staffs. One of the major benefits of attending a high prestige university for American students is the opportunity to get to meet and interact with major researchers and future researchers from all over the world. Eliminating international students would significantly lower the value of an education at any university anywhere in the world.

所有学术领域都是国际化的。世界上所有最顶尖的大学都拥有来自世界各地的学生和教职员工。对美国学生来说，进入一所声誉卓著的大学的一大好处，就是有机会接触并交流来自全球的重要研究人员和未来的学者。如果取消国际学生，那么无论在世界任何地方，大学教育的价值都将大大降低。

Brian Yankee
absolutely. Unlike students from the US, foreign students typically do not receive tuition assistance from their schools. They pay the full tuition rates. This allows US colleges and universities to offer scholarships, grants and other discounts to students from the US (which shows how much they “care about American students”).. This is a major reason why US colleges and universities are so aggressive about recruiting students from other countries.

完全正确。与美国本土学生不同，外国学生通常不会从学校获得学费补助。他们支付全额学费。这使得美国的学院和大学能够向美国学生提供奖学金、助学金和其他折扣（这也说明了大学其实很“关心”美国学生）。这也是为什么美国高校如此积极地招募海外学生的主要原因之一。

Ted Weitz
Donald Trump claims to be very concerned about the balance of trade. It is the entire rationale for the ridiculous tariff war he is conducting. The United States has a huge surplus in services. This helps the balance of trade. If universities in the United States eliminate foreign students, our balance of trade will be worse by many billions of dollars.
United States economic growth is driven in large part by our technological leadership. An enormous amount of that leadership is directly driven by basic research conducted at universities. In order to do that research we need to attract the best and the brightest. For decades the United States has benefited from being attractive to the world's top scientists and other researchers. The direct result of the damage being done to universities is and will be to drive away the very people who make the United States economy productive. A Norwegian physicist weighing offers from Cambridge, the Sorbonne, Harvard and Columbia today will not even consider the country that is harassing foreigners, stopping multiyear projects in the middle and driving out experts in his field. And the impact of that will be felt for decades to come, even if the policies are not continued.

唐纳德·特朗普声称自己非常关注贸易平衡问题。这也是他发起这场荒谬关税战的唯一理由。美国在服务贸易方面有巨大的顺差，这对贸易平衡起到了积极作用。如果美国大学不再招收国际学生，我们的贸易赤字将因此增加数千亿美元。
美国经济增长在很大程度上依赖于我们在科技领域的领导地位。而这种领先地位中的很大一部分直接来源于大学开展的基础研究。为了进行这些研究，我们必须吸引世界上最优秀、最聪明的人才。几十年来，美国一直受益于它对全球顶尖科学家和其他研究人员的吸引力。
目前针对大学所造成的损害，将会把那些原本可能留在美国推动经济生产力发展的专家驱逐出境。比如一位挪威物理学家正在比较剑桥大学、索邦大学、哈佛大学和哥伦比亚大学的录取通知，今天他可能就不会考虑一个正在骚扰外国人、中断多年研究项目、赶走本领域专家的国家。这种影响将持续数十年，即使这些政策未来被废除也难以挽回。

Khengchat Ng
Your education is like a manufactured product. Instead of shipping it overseas, you get the customer to come to you to take delivery - cash on delivery. So if you want customers, you cater to their needs. You can place an embargo on it, like Trump just did. But don't scream if the other party place export bans on critical materials because they want to cater to their own manufacturers first.

你们的教育就像一种制造出来的产品。只不过不是把它出口到国外，而是让客户亲自来到你这里接受产品——以现金方式实现货到付款。所以如果你想吸引顾客，就必须满足他们的需求。你可以像特朗普一样实施禁令，但如果你这么做了，就别抱怨其他国家也会对关键原材料实施出口禁令，因为他们也要优先满足本国制造商的需求。