网友讨论：为什么工作与生活的平衡在亚洲如此艰难？
Why work-life balance is a struggle in Asia
译文简介
如果你完成了工作，你仍然被期望留在办公室，直到你的经理离开，即使你的经理比你晚到，并且在办公室里闲聊和频繁休息。
当你快速完成工作时，这意味着你可以承担更多的工作量，因此其他人可能会因为“效率”而被解雇，直到你的工作量变得过多。
总有人比你更便宜且愿意做更多工作。如果没有足够多的人，他们会引进外国人才来让我们更具竞争力。我们只是人口过剩。
在公司之外，这种现象也深深植根于我们的教育系统中。从小我们就被教导，努力工作是成功的唯一关键。我大部分时间都在学校和补习班度过，甚至周末也是如此，所以一旦我加入职场，长时间在办公室工作对我来说感觉很自然。
正文翻译
如果你完成了工作，你仍然被期望留在办公室，直到你的经理离开，即使你的经理比你晚到，并且在办公室里闲聊和频繁休息。
当你快速完成工作时，这意味着你可以承担更多的工作量，因此其他人可能会因为“效率”而被解雇，直到你的工作量变得过多。
总有人比你更便宜且愿意做更多工作。如果没有足够多的人，他们会引进外国人才来让我们更具竞争力。我们只是人口过剩。
在公司之外，这种现象也深深植根于我们的教育系统中。从小我们就被教导，努力工作是成功的唯一关键。我大部分时间都在学校和补习班度过，甚至周末也是如此，所以一旦我加入职场，长时间在办公室工作对我来说感觉很自然。
当你快速完成工作时，这意味着你可以承担更多的工作量，因此其他人可能会因为“效率”而被解雇，直到你的工作量变得过多。
总有人比你更便宜且愿意做更多工作。如果没有足够多的人，他们会引进外国人才来让我们更具竞争力。我们只是人口过剩。
在公司之外，这种现象也深深植根于我们的教育系统中。从小我们就被教导，努力工作是成功的唯一关键。我大部分时间都在学校和补习班度过，甚至周末也是如此，所以一旦我加入职场，长时间在办公室工作对我来说感觉很自然。
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@wantonNoodle
From what I have observed, here are the wrong things in many of Asian offices:
If you are done with your job, you are still expected to stay in the office until your managers leave the office, even though your managers come later than you and spend their time in office chit-chatting and taking breaks every so often.
When you finish your job fast, that means you can get more workload, so someone else could be fired for 'efficiency' until your workload becomes too much.
There is always someone cheaper than you who are willing to do more. If there are not so many around, they bring in foreign talents to make us more competitive. We are simply overpopulated.
Outside the company, it is also drilled in our education system. From young age we are told that hard work is the only key to success. I spent most of my time in school and tuitions more than at home even on weekends, so working long hours in the office just felt natural to me once I joined the workfrorce.
根据我的观察，以下是许多亚洲办公室的错误现象：
如果你完成了工作，你仍然被期望留在办公室，直到你的经理离开，即使你的经理比你晚到，并且在办公室里闲聊和频繁休息。
当你快速完成工作时，这意味着你可以承担更多的工作量，因此其他人可能会因为“效率”而被解雇，直到你的工作量变得过多。
总有人比你更便宜且愿意做更多工作。如果没有足够多的人，他们会引进外国人才来让我们更具竞争力。我们只是人口过剩。
在公司之外，这种现象也深深植根于我们的教育系统中。从小我们就被教导，努力工作是成功的唯一关键。我大部分时间都在学校和补习班度过，甚至周末也是如此，所以一旦我加入职场，长时间在办公室工作对我来说感觉很自然。
The overpopulated part is true. When we just demand our rights whether it is paid overtime, worklife balance, paid leave, or raise in wage.. the company would simply put us out and replace us with unemployed people out there who are willing to be paid cheaper and fresh. More population = less bargaining power for the workers.
人口过剩的部分是真实的。当我们要求我们的权利，无论是加班费、工作与生活平衡、带薪休假还是加薪……公司会直接解雇我们并用那些愿意以更低薪酬工作的失业者来取代我们。更多的人口 = 工人更少的议价能力。
Confirmed Singapore. Only in Singapore does point 3 uniquely stand lol. Even other developed Asian economies like SK and JP don't have that issue compared to us.
我确认你说的是新加坡，因为只有新加坡的第三点特别突出。即使是其他发达的亚洲经济体，如韩国和日本，也不存在我们这样的问题。
I've never worked in Asia. If the culture is for workers to leave only after the manager has left, then perhaps the manager should take a leadership role, notice what's going on with his employees and come in at the same time as his employees and leave at a reasonable time. This self-righteous attitude where everyone needs to be in the office before the manager arrives and can only leave after the manager has left is an unsustainable practice and spreads a culture of being dependent on a manager. Here in the US, the culture is that in some, not all, professional jobs, you're encouraged to speak up, participate and negotiate. And if you don't like your job, you take what you've learned and move onto another job. Perhaps that opens up a position for a cheaper employee, but you've moved on to a new job you like and/or higher pay given your experience from previous jobs. But that's just my view and experience.
我从未在亚洲工作过。如果文化是员工只有在经理离开后才能离开，那么也许经理应该发挥领导作用，注意到员工的情况并与员工同时到达并在合理的时间离开。这种自以为是的态度，即每个人都需要在经理到达之前到达办公室，并且只能在经理离开后离开，是一种不可持续的做法，并传播了一种依赖经理的文化。在美国，文化是在某些（并非所有）专业工作中，你被鼓励发声、参与和谈判。如果你不喜欢你的工作，你可以带着你学到的东西转到另一份工作。也许这为更便宜的员工腾出了一个职位，但你已经转到了一个你喜欢的新工作，或者因为之前的工作经验而获得更高的薪酬。但这只是我的观点和经验。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I lived and worked in South Korea for 2 years. It was brutal! I’m so happy to be back in the US working 4 days a week for my 40hours and leaving everything at work. I know a 4 day work week is still a privilege tho.
我在韩国生活和工作了两年。那真是残酷！我很高兴回到美国，每周工作4天，40小时，并把所有事情都留在工作中。我知道每周工作4天仍然是一种特权。
No wonder people don't want to have kids. There's no time to spend time with the kids
难怪人们不想要孩子，因为他们没有时间陪伴孩子。
It’s because of the Confucian work ethic, basically saying your only source of worth is how obedient you are and how hard you work.
这是因为儒家的工作伦理，基本上说你的唯一价值来源是你有多听话和你工作得有多努力。
Super similar to the puritanical work culture of USA and UK
这与美国和英国的清教徒工作文化非常相似。
It’s a struggle everywhere for poor and middle class income families
对于贫困家庭和中产阶级家庭来说，这在各地都是一场斗争。
Bingo! Americans actually work more hours than japanese and they have universal health care, robust transportation, cheap local food, better schooling, and very cheap houses they refuse to buy so much so they have a market place for them
没错！美国人实际上比日本人工作时间更长，而且他们有全民医疗保健、强大的交通系统、便宜的本地食品、更好的学校以及非常便宜的他们拒绝购买的房屋，以至于他们有一个市场栖身。
It depends very much on what you do as a job. For law firms, consulting, etc... 60 hour weeks are the norm, even in Europe (speaking very much from experience). Also, upper management in companies work A LOT. The only people who have cushy 38 hours are employees in big companies such as Volkswagen. And in the US hustle culture is a big thing. Many people hold down several jobs because one job isn't enough to pay the bills.
这在很大程度上取决于你从事的工作。对于律师事务所、咨询公司等……每周60小时是常态，即使在欧洲也是如此（根据经验）。此外，公司的高层管理人员工作非常多。只有像大众这样的大公司的员工才能享受轻松的38小时工作制。而在美国，忙碌文化是一个大问题，许多人同时做几份工作，因为一份工作不足以支付账单。
Big difference is, in Europe and the US, more work means more pay. In many places in Asia, you're expected to do more work without extra pay
最大的区别是在欧洲和美国，更多的工作意味着更多的薪酬。而在亚洲的许多地方，你被期望做更多的工作而没有额外的薪酬。
in asia, things are weirder when the management just expects you stay longer and be able to respond to their request anytime they want. they seek to control the employee with no extra overtime pay. this is super toxic especially for young graduates.
在亚洲，当管理层只是期望你待得更久并能够随时响应他们的要求时，事情就变得更奇怪了。他们试图在没有额外加班费的情况下控制员工，这对年轻毕业生尤其有毒。
Having worked in a big MNC whose name only has 4 letters, work life balance there is really non existent.
I am expected to work late or attend 10pm calls once every fortnight. Mentor was sending emails at 10.30pm on a Saturday. Requests that come in at 5pm on a Friday must still be attended to. So glad to be out of that hellhole.
我曾在一家名字只有四个字母的大型跨国公司工作，那里的工作与生活平衡根本不存在。
我被期望工作到很晚或每两周参加一次晚上10点的电话会议。指导者在周六晚上10:30还在发邮件，周五下午5点收到的请求仍然必须处理。我很高兴离开了那个地狱。
The problem is business owners wanting to impose their work schedule on employees.
Employees work for a certain amount of time and a fixed salary.
If you want me to invest as many hours as you in the company, give me shares and I will be included in the benefits split. To put it another way: recruit partners and not employees.
问题是企业主想要将他们的工作时间表强加给员工。
员工工作一定的时间并获得固定工资。
如果你希望我在公司投入和你一样多的时间，那么请给我股份，我将参与利益分配。换句话说：你需要招募合作伙伴而不是员工。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Also most workers are more efficient working less hours and need rest and other activities to reciperate. Business owners and entrepeneurs are abnormalities that can work tirelessly on end and don’t understand this. It’s also much easier to work endlessly when you have ownership. That same level of motivation doesn’t exist when you’re working for someone else.
此外，大多数员工在较少的工作时间内效率更高，并且需要休息和其他活动来恢复。企业主和企业家是能够不知疲倦地工作的异常人群，他们不理解这一点。当你有所有权时，无休止地工作也更容易。当你为别人工作时，这种动力就不存在了。
here in my country everyone will automatically stop at 5pm. My boss will be the 1st person to go home. Everyone went home rushingly (eventhough with no solid reason). if you stay more than 5 minutes, everyone will push you to go home. Tagline 'Never mix your work with home'
在我的国家，每个人都会在下午5点自动停止工作。我的老板会是第一个回家的人，每个人都匆匆回家（即使没有充分的理由）。如果你待超过5分钟，每个人都会推你回家，我们的口号是“永远不要把工作和家庭混在一起”。
The big reason for this in Asia is because of high population. There will another 1000 to take up the job if a person leaves . Competition is very high due to high population nothing else !!
这在亚洲的主要原因是因为人口众多。如果一个人离开，还会有1000人愿意接手这份工作。由于人口众多，竞争非常激烈，没有其他原因！
Asian people are really material oriented : having money = buying stuffs or service, etc.... for the moment they haven't discover over it but seems young people are showing a better way..
亚洲人非常物质导向：有钱 = 买东西或服务等……目前他们还没有超越这一点，但似乎年轻人正在展示更好的方式。
Many Asian families also expect adult children to buy homes for their parents and support the entire family on their wages. It's a very toxic mindset!
许多亚洲家庭还期望成年子女为父母买房，并用他们的工资支持整个家庭。这是一种非常有毒的心态！
Certain western countries can afford to APPEAR to be less materialistic because of wealth accumulation through colonisation. Capitalism was not originated in Asia. On the contrary, many least developed countries are found in Asia and are widely thought to be the least materialistic.
某些西方国家能够显得不那么物质主义，是因为他们通过殖民积累了财富。资本主义并非起源于亚洲。相反，许多最不发达国家位于亚洲并被广泛认为是最不物质主义的。
It doesnt mean that they earn more by going through crazy hours of overtime. For most of cases, they are doing a free labor forced by their company. You'll get kicked out when you say NO to it.
这并不意味着他们通过疯狂的加班赚得更多。在大多数情况下，他们是在做公司强加的无偿劳动。当你对此说“不”时，你就会被解雇。
u talk about japan, check india, these things are not even discussed over 70% of workers in india are overworked ! many people die from heart attack due to overwork. And the worst part is our parents enourage their child to overwork as it will success which is bs actually bs
你谈到了日本，但看看印度，这些事情甚至没有被讨论，超过70%的印度工人过度工作！许多人因过度工作而死于心脏病。最糟糕的是我们的父母鼓励孩子过度工作并认为这会带来成功，这实际上是胡说八道。
Maybe its not mentioned but Indonesian workung culture actually is in war between Asian culture and Western culture.
.
Employer and managers prefer their staff to have Asian culture. Its highly common especially with boomer mindset who always judge Gen Z as being ungratefull brat for being accepted to work on their workplace. Kind of ironic, they are being the enabler of Asian culture because they got this treatment and survive. Kind of survival bias.
While employee would prefer having Western culture (8 hours per day and no contact outside of working hours). But most of Gen Z and Gen Y that strugling to implement this culture actually got bad impression of being less loyal regardless of their job performance. This culture is more common and well implemented in Western branch company.
Indonesian company at common actually still prefer to has Asian culture since ... you know, regardless of the productivity or their job performance.
The current disruption of worforce seems to be a shift towards Asian work culture since the government also promoting it and the employeer would choose everyone who want to go to this culture because its simply harder to get job for job hunter. Its common to listen this phrase, "Nobody ask you to join my company, if you are not willing to do our rule, we can look other employee, there's many wanted your position!"
也许你没有提到，但印度尼西亚的工作文化实际上处于亚洲文化和西方文化之间的战争中。
雇主和经理更喜欢员工拥有亚洲文化。这非常普遍，尤其是那些总是将Z世代视为忘恩负义的婴儿潮一代心态的人，因为他们被接受在他们的工作场所工作。有点讽刺的是他们是亚洲文化的推动者，因为他们得到了这种待遇并生存了下来。这是一种生存偏见。
而员工则更倾向于拥有西方文化（每天8小时，工作之外不联系），但大多数试图实施这种文化的Z世代和Y世代实际上给人留下了不忠诚的坏印象，无论他们的工作表现如何。这种文化在西方分公司中更为常见和实施。
印度尼西亚公司通常仍然更喜欢亚洲文化，因为……你知道的，无论生产力或工作表现如何。
当前的劳动力似乎正在转向亚洲工作文化，因为政府也在推广它，雇主会选择所有愿意接受这种文化的人，因为对于求职者来说，找到工作变得更难了。我们经常能听到这句话：“没有人要求你加入我的公司，如果你不愿意遵守我们的规则，我们可以找其他员工，有很多人想要你的职位！”
It’s in the culture. Unfortunately, I’m afraid they’ll never change. People in these countries just don't know any better than that and are not willing to change. Upper management is the problem here in Taiwan at least. Most of them are old school people who lik3 to stick with their old ways and expect everybody else to follow the same path. These people have no life aside from job and it’s pretty sad.
这是文化的一部分，不幸的是我担心他们永远不会改变。这些国家的人们只知道这些，并且不愿意改变。至少在台湾（地区），高层管理人员是问题所在，他们中的大多数是老派人士，喜欢坚持他们的旧方式并期望其他人遵循同样的道路。这些人除了工作之外没有生活，这很可悲。
The strange thing is that overwork is often an indicative of low productivity, in most cases a reduced staff of let's say two or three people are doing more effort to do the same job that would be done in half of the time by a team of five or six coworkers.
Speaking about Japan and South Korean in particular I think comes off unnoticed the desire to appear busy for the sake of it that is common in those two societies. This fact alone can push to the creation of unnecessary or redundant tasks to be fulfilled only to make the one doing it appear busy and as handworker as possible. Japanese offices are also notorious for their attachment to old technologies - and it's not even uncommon that you'll find a fax-machine still being used there.
At the end it doesn't add up, at least in the Japanese case because if the whole country is lock in this culture of overwork to the point of death and at expense of low birth rates so how productivity have become stagnated? It's not only even that they're overworking themselves to death they are doing this to add nothing or very little to their annual GDP.
奇怪的是过度工作通常是低生产力的表现，在大多数情况下，减少到两三个人的员工团队在做同样的工作时，会比五六个人的团队花费更多的努力。
特别是谈到日本和韩国时，我认为他们为了显得忙碌而忙碌的愿望在这两个社会中很常见，但却被忽视了。这一事实本身就会推动创建不必要或冗余的任务，只是为了让做这些事的人显得忙碌和尽可能勤奋。日本办公室也以对旧技术的依恋而闻名——你甚至会发现传真机仍然在那里使用。
最终这并不合理，至少在日本的情况下，因为如果整个国家都陷入这种过度工作到死的文化，并以低出生率为代价，那么生产力怎么会不停滞不前？他们不仅过度工作到死，而且这样做对他们的年度GDP几乎没有贡献。
This is misleading - North America work on average 38 hours a week?? That's completely false. Working less than 40hrs a week is considered a par time job, and part timers don't receive work benefits. You simply cannot sustain a living doing part time. Most families in North America needs 2 full time income to sustain, or a person works a full time job with a part time on the side.
这是误导性的——北美平均每周工作38小时？？这完全是错误的。每周工作少于40小时被视为兼职工作，兼职者不享受工作福利，你根本无法靠兼职维持生活。北美的大多数家庭需要两份全职收入来维持生活，或者一个人做一份全职工作，同时兼职。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Same in India, the reason is simple, I am not doing that work someone else is ready to do the same work in 50% of the pay..
在印度也是如此，原因很简单，我不做那份工作，别人愿意以50%的薪酬做同样的工作。
Perhaps this will only change when India reache the stage where population ages fastly. Now there are abundant young people, so employers have too many choices
也许只有当印度进入人口快速老龄化的阶段时，这种情况才会改变。现在印度有大量的年轻人，所以雇主有太多的选择。
There is a saying in Asia, "The corporation owns you...". This is an unfortunate situation for many Asian Countries, the Execs at the top play while the hourly workers suffer.
亚洲有句俗话：“公司拥有你……”。这对许多亚洲国家来说是一个不幸的情况，高层管理者在享受，而小时工却在受苦。
I would say working hours in most of Asian countries could be exhausted and lead to terminal illness. I have seen number of my colleagues in different divisions died at middle age between 40s - 50s.
我认为大多数亚洲国家的工作时间可能会让人精疲力尽，并导致绝症。我见过许多不同部门的同事在40到50岁的中年时期去世。
I have a lot of night meetings... So you can't really turn off your mind from work and relax. So most of the time I felt like I am working until late night even though I have free time in between before my night meetings start.
我有很多夜间会议……所以你无法真正从工作中解脱出来并放松。所以大多数时候我感觉自己工作到深夜，尽管在夜间会议开始之前我有空闲时间。
I suffered the same, I got stress, diabetes and health issues because of over working and no physical activity time. Day long work staring 3 computer screens.
我也遭受了同样的痛苦，由于过度工作和没有体育活动时间，我得了压力、糖尿病和健康问题。我整天盯着三个电脑屏幕工作。
Many of the working class in the Philippines have to work 15 hrs a day and 7 days a week going home only to sleep because of basic pay is not enough and cost of living continues to rise.
菲律宾的许多工人阶级不得不每天工作15小时，每周工作7天，回家只是为了睡觉，因为基本工资不够，生活成本不断上升。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
My condolences to the millions of C....
我对数百万C工人表示哀悼，他们因实施996工作制度的公司的剥削和奴役而失去了生M和理智，而ZF对此视而不见。
As an asian american, the biggest difference i constantly hear between US and Asian countries.
Asia: If you are not willing to do it, there is always someone willing to take your job at a lower cost.
US: firing and rehiring means we would have to pay the new person at the current market rate.
Asians have harder time because they are working against each other. In the US, employees work for their companies, but working against their companies on personal agenda.
作为一个亚裔美国人，我经常听到美国和亚洲国家之间的最大区别。
亚洲：如果你不愿意做，总有人愿意以更低的成本接手你的工作。
美国：解雇和重新雇用意味着我们必须以当前市场价支付新员工。
亚洲人更难，因为他们彼此竞争。在美国，员工为公司工作，但在个人议程上与公司对抗。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Well, Asia is getting richer while the West is impoveshing. So there is your answer. They needed to work hard to catch up with the west. People forget Westerners were overworked as well during industrial times.
好吧，亚洲正在变得更富有，而西方正在贫困化，所以这就是你的答案。他们需要努力工作以赶上西方，人们忘记了西方人在工业时代也过度工作。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
As a father, I would rather work long hours to be able to bear the financial burden instead of in middle of no where not knowing how to pay your bills and children's education. The situation is ironic and is a fact which you can find anywhere here in Asian among working class.
作为一个父亲，我宁愿长时间工作以承担经济负担，而不是陷入不知如何支付账单和孩子教育费用的困境中。这种情况很讽刺，但是这是你在亚洲工人阶级中随处可见的事实。