中国如何在电池和电动汽车制造方面做得如此出色？

 
@martian9999
a a citizen of the world, I love this situation. Cheaper batteries = quicker decarbonization of transport and industry. The thing holding up wind and solar is their intermittancy. Batteries are a big part of the solution, but they need to be cheap, and we need them in massive amounts.
 
作为一名世界公民，我非常喜欢这种局面，更便宜的电池意味着交通和工业的更快脱碳。风能和太阳能的瓶颈在于它们的间歇性，电池是解决方案的重要组成部分，但它们需要便宜，而且我们需要大量的电池。
 
 
 
@zeytelaloi
I was recently in Addis Ababa, the capital of Ethiopia in East Africa. I saw truck-loads of small BYDs being brought in. Taxis are switching over to them and other small EVs like the Wuling. The elites are driving Chinese-made VWs (like the one shown there for leasing), and Japanese EVs as well. A guy I met is opening up a factory in a smaller Ethiopian city to produce electric tuktuks.
Ethiopia produces more electricity than it uses (having built a massive dam), due to bad power distribution infrastructure. As they improve it, reducing power outages, the ICEs will be driven out. Many poor countries struggle with trade imbalances, being forced to import so many things, and as a result they have weak currencies. Having to import fossil fuels is a big pain.
 
我最近在东非埃塞俄比亚的首都亚的斯亚贝巴，我看到大量小型比亚迪汽车被运进来。出租车正在转向这些车以及其他小型电动车，比如五菱。精英们开着中国制造的大众汽车（比如视频中展示的租赁车）以及日本电动车。我遇到的一个家伙正在埃塞俄比亚的一个小城市开设工厂，生产电动三轮车。
埃塞俄比亚的发电量超过了其使用量（因为建了一座大型水坝），但由于电力分配基础设施不佳，电力供应不稳定。随着他们改善基础设施，减少停电，内燃机车将被淘汰。许多贫穷国家面临贸易不平衡问题，被迫进口大量商品，导致货币疲软。进口化石燃料是一个巨大的负担。
 
 
 
@passby8070
That's a good observation, counter to popular beliefs, I think poorer countries will electrify first due to reliant on oil import, which is a massive risk.
 
这是一个很好的观察，与普遍看法相反，我认为贫穷国家会首先实现电气化，因为它们依赖石油进口，这是一个巨大的风险。
 
 
 
@FabioCapela
Keep in mind that Ethiopia did a very bold move, in that it banned imports of ICE cars; it also has a very bad fuel distribution infrastructure — refueling lines can take hours — and with the ban on ICE cars no further improvement to fuel distribution is expected.
In large part the move was done to solve their issue with fuel imports (which are already a large, and until the ban growing, part of their imports).
 
请记住，埃塞俄比亚采取了一个非常大胆的举措，即禁止进口内燃机汽车；该国的燃料分配基础设施也非常糟糕——加油排队可能需要几个小时——而且随着内燃机汽车的禁令，预计燃料分配不会进一步改善。
这一举措在很大程度上是为了解决他们的燃料进口问题（燃料进口已经是他们进口的重要组成部分，并且在禁令之前还在增长）。
 
 
 
@nakdickson
Chinese smartphone makers are the reason smartphones became affordable. I believe they'll do the same with the car market.
 
中国智能手机制造商是智能手机变得便宜的原因，我相信他们会在汽车市场做同样的事情。
 
 
 
@dwc1964
9:17 - this right here is something I've been saying for over a decade:
If you're going to spend public money to create a market for EVs in order to promote their development, the best way to start is not to provide "incentives" to individual consumers, but to just buy the vehicles directly, replacing every type of vehicle with an internal combustion/diesel engine that any government agency has with an electric model over time. This approach has multiple advantages over the personal market-based approach:
(1) it converts public money into public assets - things that the public owns and are used for publicly-directed purposes;
(2) it replaces things we were going to have to replace anyway, on a regular schedule;
(3) it directs R&D towards practicality and efficiency rather than the whiz-bang performance metrics that impress early-adopter techbros;
(4) it doesn't encourage the use of the private automobile as the primary mode of transportation, but rather goes the other way with electrified mass transit; and
(5) several others but I'll leave it there.
After that, consumer incentives for EVs (and disincentives against combustion engines) can work towards shifting the private consumer market, with points (3) and (4) in mind. This is why, it seems to me, there are so many really good, inexpensive (before incentives), small Chinese EVs, while the North American market is oversized, overpowered, overpriced "performance" cars and big-assed SUVs and pickup trucks.
If BYD were allowed to compete in the North American market on a free-market basis, it would hit the North American automakers harder than the Japanese automakers did in the 1970s. And just like back then, it will have been a downfall of their own making.
 
9:17 - 这是我十多年来一直在说的：
如果你打算用公共资金为电动汽车创造一个市场以促进其发展，最好的开始方式不是向个人消费者提供“激励”，而是直接购买这些车辆，逐步将政府机构拥有的所有内燃机/柴油发动机车辆替换为电动车型。这种方法比基于个人市场的方法有多个优势：
（1）它将公共资金转化为公共资产——公众拥有并用于公共目的的东西；
（2）它按计划替换我们无论如何都需要替换的东西；
（3）它将研发方向引导到实用性和效率上，而不是那些让早期采用者技术迷们印象深刻的炫酷性能指标；
（4）它不鼓励将私人汽车作为主要交通方式，而是转向电气化的大众交通；
（5）还有其他一些优势，但我就不一一列举了。
之后，针对电动汽车的消费者激励（以及对内燃机汽车的抑制措施）可以在考虑第（3）和第（4）点的情况下，推动私人消费市场的转变。这就是为什么在我看来，中国有这么多真正好、便宜（在激励之前）、小型电动汽车，而北美市场则是超大、超强、超贵的“性能”汽车和大屁股SUV和皮卡。
如果比亚迪被允许在北美市场自由竞争，它将比20世纪70年代的日本汽车制造商对北美汽车制造商造成更大的冲击。就像那时一样，这将是他们自己造成的衰落。
 
 
 
BYD is building a manufacturing facility in Brazil, the cars produced there won't be facing the same tariffs as the ones imported from overseas and will likely flood brazil's market with BYD cars when operating at full capacity. an interesting fact about this new facility is that its plant was acquired from Ford. the north american company closed all facilities in brazil between 2019 and 2021. you can see perfectly the trend here.
 
比亚迪正在巴西建设一个制造工厂，那里生产的汽车不会面临与从海外进口的汽车相同的关税，并且在满负荷生产时可能会用比亚迪汽车淹没巴西市场。关于这个新工厂的一个有趣事实是，它的工厂是从福特收购的。这家北美公司在2019年至2021年间关闭了在巴西的所有工厂。你可以清楚地看到这里的趋势。
 
 
 
@3nimac
Reminds me of Kodak who invented the digital camera but didn't pursue it to protect its film business but then they got stomped anyway. Will happen with legacy car makers.
 
这让我想起了柯达，他们发明了数码相机，但没有继续发展以保护其胶片业务，最终他们还是被淘汰了。传统汽车制造商也会发生同样的事情。
 
 
 
@bearstar_bearson4350
Yep! They’re aware of it though. I have worked with a couple on a consulting basis. The issue for them this time is that a lot of them didn’t realise the major threat caused by Chinese EVs before it was basically to late. Also it’s just veeeeery difficult to completely change the direction of a 100 year old company
 
是的！不过他们也意识到了这一点。我曾以咨询的身份与其中几家公司合作。这次的问题是许多公司在意识到中国电动汽车带来的重大威胁时已经为时已晚。而且，彻底改变一家百年老公司的方向非常非常困难。
 
 
 
@rudalsxv
As a consumer, this is a good news. Don’t buy into doom and gloom from the incumbent capital owners.
They just don’t want competition, globalization is what they wanted and welcomed it when it benefitted them.
Don’t buy into their manipulation.
 
作为一名消费者，这是个好消息。不要被现有资本所有者的悲观情绪所影响。
他们只是不想要竞争，全球化是他们想要的，并且在有利于他们时欢迎它。
不要被他们的操纵所迷惑。
 
 
 
@hexx0502
I moved to Europe from China in 2015. Back then, no car reviewers or mechanics recommended Chinese vehicles, and people would sometimes make fun of those who bought them. When I visited home in 2020, I started seeing some low-quality electric taxis in big cities, and many taxi drivers complained about them. When I returned to China in 2024, I was blown away by how much the electric cars had improved—not to mention that Chinese combustion engine cars, like the Tank 300, were also catching up. From my personal experience, if the EU opens its market to Chinese electric cars, European manufacturers won’t stand a chance. It’s not just about price; the quality—once the biggest competitive advantage of European cars—is now at risk as well.
 
我于2015年从中国搬到欧洲。那时，没有汽车评论员或机械师推荐中国汽车，人们有时会嘲笑那些购买中国汽车的人。2020年我回国时，我开始在一些大城市看到一些低质量的电动出租车，许多出租车司机抱怨它们。2024年我回到中国时，我对电动车的改进感到震惊——更不用说中国的内燃机汽车，比如坦克300，也在迎头赶上。根据我的个人经验，如果欧盟向中国电动车开放市场，欧洲制造商将毫无胜算。这不仅仅是价格问题；曾经是欧洲汽车最大竞争优势的质量现在也面临风险。
 
 
 
@geiers6013
"We are falling a little bit behind". Nah I think we are already massively behind and have lost. Chinese EVs even in europe are cheap with the tarrifs and taxes added. Our democracies completely lack the long term vision and urgency to act displayed by China.
 
“我们有点落后了”。不，我认为我们已经远远落后并且输了。即使在欧洲，中国电动车加上关税和税后仍然更便宜。我们的民主国家完全缺乏中国所展示的长期愿景和行动紧迫性。
 
 
 
@FabioCapela
The "new" Brazilian tariffs are misrepresented.
Brazil has had, for decades already, pretty high tariffs on all imported cars, regardless of source or technology; the usual car import tariff right now stands at 35%. This is done so carmakers set up factories in the country in order to avoid the tariff.
What happened is that Brazil wanted to jumpstart the local EV market; no local market means no factory investment, no factory investment means no local market because imports are too expensive. Thus Brazil temporarily lowered the tariffs on EVs to 0% to create a local EV market, but with scheduled raises to the tariff until by the middle of 2026 it will be back to 35% — and it hasn't deviated from that schedule.
Incidentally, there's no country of origin discrimination in that tariff. EVs from China currently have a 18% tariff — but so have EVs from the US, Canada, Germany, France, Japan, South Korea, etc.
As for the EVs clogging the ports: that would be because BYD has more than enough cash reserves to bring in huge numbers of EVs before each tariff hike in order to enjoy more sales at the previous, lower tariff, so they are doing it.
Of note, Brazil has no homegrown car industry (the last attempt essentially died due to lack of government support), but the local branches of legacy automakers that do have factories in the country are already panicking about the Chinese cars. But, like Thailand, the government doesn't seem to care; as long as cars sold in Brazil are in the end made in Brazil, the government doesn't care if the factory making the car is owned by the USA, Germany, Japan, South Korea, or China. What's more, to sweeten the deal Chinese carmakers are talking about producing in Brazil cars to be exported to South American countries that don't have local car factories, and even talking about using Brazil's Lithium to make batteries in the country both for local use and for exporting.
 
巴西的“新”关税被误解了。
几十年来，巴西对所有进口汽车征收相当高的关税，无论来源或技术如何；目前的汽车进口关税为35%。这样做是为了让汽车制造商在该国设立工厂以避免关税。
实际情况是巴西希望推动本地电动车市场的发展；没有本地市场意味着没有工厂投资，没有工厂投资意味着没有本地市场，因为进口太贵。因此，巴西暂时将电动车的关税降至0%以创建一个本地电动车市场，但计划逐步提高关税，到2026年中将恢复到35%——并且没有偏离这一计划。
顺便说一下，该关税没有原产地歧视。来自中国的电动车目前有18%的关税——但来自美国、加拿大、德国、法国、日本、韩国等的电动车也是如此。
至于堵塞港口的电动车：这是因为比亚迪有足够的现金储备，在每次关税上调之前进口大量电动车，以便在之前的较低关税下享受更多销售，所以他们正在这样做。
值得注意的是巴西没有本土汽车工业（上一次尝试基本上因缺乏政府支持而失败），但在该国设有工厂的传统汽车制造商的当地分支机构已经对中国汽车感到恐慌。但像泰国一样，政府似乎并不在意；只要在巴西销售的汽车最终是在巴西制造的，政府并不关心制造汽车的工厂是属于美国、德国、日本、韩国还是中国。更重要的是为了增加吸引力，中国汽车制造商正在讨论在巴西生产汽车，出口到没有本地汽车工厂的南美国家，甚至讨论使用巴西的锂在该国制造电池，供本地使用和出口。
 
 
 
@breaky73
I live in Vientiane, Laos, and I can say that in relative terms you will even find a higher percentage of EV's than in Bangkok. All of them Chinese of course. Almost all ride sharing is done with EV's and we have also electric tuk tuks. Electric scooters are everywhere too. You can get a decent EV now for less than 20.000 USD and they are getting cheaper. The only thing what is the issue is not yet proven reliability from most Chinese brands, plus that there are just way too many models and brands for sale now, so servicing might also be in issue in the future.
 
我生活在老挝万象，可以说相对而言，这里的电动车比例甚至比曼谷还要高。当然，它们都是中国制造的。几乎所有的共享出行都是用电动车完成的，我们也有电动三轮车。电动滑板车也随处可见。现在你可以用不到2万美元买到一辆不错的电动车，而且它们越来越便宜。唯一的问题是大多数中国品牌的可靠性尚未得到验证，而且现在有太多型号和品牌在销售，所以未来的维修可能也是个问题。
 
 
 
@woolfel
the US could have done the same thing, but we were too busy handy out money to GM, Ford and other dinosaur companies. We only have ourselves to blame for it.
 
美国本可以做同样的事情，但我们太忙于向通用、福特和其他恐龙公司发放资金。我们只能怪自己。
 
 
 
@cartilagehead
Fossil fuel companies were the biggest problem here. Ford and GM genuinely wanted to change and put a ton of money and work into it (because they have the analysts and engineers who could see this coming a mile off) but ultimately they are beholden to their stakeholders and nobody’s a bigger stakeholder in the US auto industry than dealerships and dealership owners are all uniformly super right wing and they formed a political alliance with fossil fuel groups and so here we are
 
化石燃料公司是这里最大的问题。福特和通用汽车真心想要改变，并投入了大量资金和精力（因为他们有分析师和工程师，他们早就预见到了这一点），但最终他们受制于他们的利益相关者，而在美国汽车行业中，没有比经销商更大的利益相关者了，而且经销商老板们都是极右翼，他们与化石燃料集团形成了政治联盟，所以我们就成了现在这样。
 
 
 
@martian9999
this has to be TechAltar... because nobody is saying the usual anti-EV FUD, such as "but they have a bigger CO2 footprint than fossil cars!", or "there's not enough Lithium!", or "the grid can't charge all those cars!"
That EVs were the way of the future became apparent to me in 2008, when at a car conference in Geneva a guy explained you only need 30 square meters of solar panel space to power a car for 15k km per year. Who needs oil, then? Sadly, it seems hardly anybody in Europe was listening. Great video!
 
一定是TechAltar...因为没有人说那些常见的反电动车谣言，比如“它们的碳足迹比化石燃料汽车更大！”或者“锂不够用！”或者“电网无法为所有这些车充电！”
电动车是未来的方向，这一点在2008年对我来说变得显而易见，当时在日内瓦的一个汽车会议上，有人解释说，你只需要30平方米的太阳能电池板空间就可以为一辆车提供每年1.5万公里的动力。那谁还需要石油呢？遗憾的是似乎欧洲几乎没有人听进去。很棒的视频！
 
 
 
@MorbidEel
The problem is that oil has a massive influence since it is around ~12% of all trade. The people who have been reliably getting their income from oil aren't going to swap it for something less certain nor would they appreciate having that disrupted.
 
问题是石油具有巨大的影响力，因为它占全球贸易的约12%。那些一直可靠地从石油中获得收入的人不会将其换成不那么确定的东西，也不会喜欢这种收入被破坏。
 
 
 
@sihamhamda47
"There's not enough lithium to meet the demand"
And well, now they start mass producing the sodium battery to balance out the lithium demand. It's not for EV nor the small devices, but it's for stationary energy storage solution where the cost per kwh is more important and energy density is less of an issue (sodium battery has slightly lower energy density but the cost are extremely cheaper and also as durable as lithium batteries). This is however is still in the very early stage but they promise "very massive production growth incoming in the next few years"And if this happens, this will definitely continue to drive down the overall battery price
 
“锂的供应不足以满足需求。”
于是，他们开始大规模生产钠电池以平衡锂的需求。钠电池不用于电动汽车或小型设备，而是用于固定储能解决方案，其中每千瓦时的成本更为重要，而能量密度则不那么关键（钠电池的能量密度略低，但成本极其低廉，且与锂电池一样耐用）。然而，这仍处于非常早期的阶段，但他们承诺“未来几年将迎来非常大规模的生产增长”。如果这成为现实，这无疑将继续推动整体电池价格的下降。
 
 
 
@Heimbasteln
China will be the reason why we suceed in achieving net zero.
They are sadly the only country who really understood that renewables are the future and invested in their production. And Chinese industries are the reason renewables are cost competitive without subsidies.
Batteries and Solar Panels are both mainly produced in China.
We Germans were once the world leaders in Solar Cells, but some stupid politicians decided to stop a lot subsidies without prior warning quite a few years ago.
Its sad, but it seems like investing into renewable technology production in china is much less risky than in any first world country.
 
中国将是我们实现净零排放的原因。
遗憾的是中国是唯一真正理解可再生能源是未来并投资于其生产的国家，中国工业也是可再生能源在没有补贴的情况下具有成本竞争力的原因。
电池和太阳能板主要在中国生产。
我们德国曾经是太阳能电池的世界领导者，但一些愚蠢的政客在几年前毫无预警地决定停止大量补贴。
这很可悲，但似乎在中国投资可再生能源技术生产比在任何第一世界国家都要风险小得多。
 
 
 
@Scouter98
You're into renewables, huh? Tell us about how lithium batteries, solar panels and wind turbine blades can be recycled. Last I heard it's a ecological disaster, not to mention what happens when a single battery catches fire that can't be put out, and the emitted smoke paralyzes or kills people nearby.
 
你对可再生能源感兴趣，是吗？告诉我们锂电池、太阳能板和风力涡轮叶片如何回收。我上次听说这是一个生态灾难，更不用说当一块电池着火无法扑灭时会发生什么，排放的烟雾会使附近的人瘫痪或死亡。
 
 
 
@passby8070
Shenzhen is 20 years ahead of the west in terms of electrification of transport. Here in Australia most buses are dirty diesel, where as most city buses are EVs in China. It will take another 15 years for all the diesel buses to be phased out in Australian cities unfortunately.
 
在交通电气化方面，深圳领先西方20年。在澳大利亚，大多数公交车是肮脏的柴油车，而在中国，大多数城市公交车是电动车。不幸的是澳大利亚城市要完全淘汰柴油公交车还需要15年时间。
 
 
 
@giacintoboccia9386
Stellantis at this point sells Leap Motor cars in their network, somehow all western-designed EV turn too expensive. I had hoped that the Citroen Ami would tell a lesson in designing chap electric cars, but here we are.
 
Stellantis目前在其网络中销售Leap Motor汽车，不知为何所有西方设计的电动车都变得太贵了。我曾希望雪铁龙Ami能在设计廉价电动车方面给我们上一课，但现实却是这样。
 
 
 
@sussei
Chinese car manufacturers are so well behind others in combustion engines so they bank all their R&D into EVs. the thing is they dont have big oil lobbyist holding back alternative energy innovations, so this is how it ended up now. i have no interest in EVs yet as their improvements year over year is so significant your new car might already be "obsolete" by the next model year, but when it finally matured EVs will be a no brainer compared to heavily emission regulated ICE that is becoming more complex and unreliable year by year.
 
中国汽车制造商在内燃机方面远远落后于其他国家，因此他们将所有研发投入电动车。问题是他们没有大型石油游说团体阻碍替代能源创新，所以现在情况就是这样。我对电动车还没有兴趣，因为它们每年的改进如此显著，你的新车可能在下一年就已经“过时”了，但当电动车最终成熟时，与日益复杂和不可靠的排放严格限制的内燃机相比，电动车将是不二之选。
 
 
 
@Amrisael
Just to add, while Turkey added tariffs to Chinese cars, they also remove them if certain conditions are met with domestic production. BYD for example don’t have those taxes in Turkey(but they sell with prices as if they have tarrifs lol)
 
补充一下，虽然土耳其对中国汽车加征关税，但如果满足某些国内生产条件，他们也会取消这些关税。例如，比亚迪在土耳其没有这些税（但他们销售的价格好像有税一样，哈哈）。
 
 
 
@ELYELYELroy
was in chile recently, not only are chionese EVS like BYD getting popular there but even gas powered Chinese brands like chery are on the rise there. I rented a Chery while I was there, great car even got in an accident on the highway and it crumpled beautifully. That trip made me happy my country has tariffs on their vehicles cause man it would be a market shock if they suddenly appeared here.
 
最近在智利，不仅像比亚迪这样的中国电动车在那里越来越受欢迎，甚至像奇瑞这样的中国汽油车品牌也在崛起。我在那里租了一辆奇瑞，车很棒，甚至在高速公路上出了事故，车体变形也很漂亮。那次旅行让我很高兴我的国家对他们的车辆征收关税，因为如果它们突然出现在这里，市场会震惊的。