为什么美国突然对向印度出售F-35战斗机感兴趣？（二）

Yaozhou
I don’t really understand the rationale behind India purchasing these fighter jets. Is it to counter Pakistan?
There’s really no need for that, as India’s current military capabilities already have a clear advantage over Pakistan.
As for China, it makes even less sense. For countries of the size and scale of China and India, the outcome of a conflict wouldn’t be determined by just a few aircraft.
Lastly, based on the Indian Air Force's record of aviation accidents, at its peak, there was a crash roughly every month. I don't believe India has the capacity to properly maintain these fighter jets.

我真的不太明白印度购买这些战斗机背后的逻辑，是为了对抗巴基斯坦吗？
其实根本没有这个必要，因为印度目前的军事能力已经明显优于巴基斯坦。
至于（对抗）中国，这更是毫无意义。对于中国和印度这样规模的国家，冲突的结果不可能仅仅由几架战斗机决定。
最后，根据印度空军的航空事故记录，在最糟糕的时候，几乎每个月都会发生一次坠机事故。我不认为印度具备妥善维护这些战斗机的能力。

Anant Sinha
China offered to sell Pakistani it's stealth fighter jets. Putting india at a disadvantage. India needs to balance out the power. Second, India wants to promote indigenous production of fighter jets and hence it's hasn't been able to replace the old soviet era fighter jets like mig-21 bison. That's the reason their are crashes. modern fighter jets have rarely crashed. So I don't know what propaganda you read but India has reasons.

中国提出向巴基斯坦出售隐形战斗机，这让印度处于劣势。印度需要通过购买先进战斗机来平衡这种力量对比。其次，印度希望推动国产战斗机的生产，但尚未能替换掉像米格-21“野牛”这样的老式苏联时期战斗机，这才是坠机事故频发的原因。现代战斗机很少发生坠毁事故。我不知道你读了什么宣传内容，但印度的采购是有合理理由的。

Ajoy Vargis
Atleast Indian Airforce is honestly reporting every crash since 1947 that amounted to roughly 2000 aircrafts . Don’t except Chinese PLAAN or Pakistani PAF to be that brutally honest in admitting their failings unlike the Indians.

至少印度空军自1947年以来一直在诚实地报告每一次坠机事故，总共约有2000架飞机坠毁。相比之下，别指望中国解放军空军或巴基斯坦空军会像印度这样坦诚地承认自己的失误。

Lchsod

你就是典型的无能的印度人，无能的印度军队，包括他的飞机，就是全世界的笑话。

Chetan Mishra
It’s a part of Trump’s plan to reverse trade deficits against most major economies. By selling F-35s to India, it ensures a nice deal for the USA’s military industrial complex, while reducing the USA’s trade deficit with India (increase USA’s exports to India relative to imports, currently they import more from India than they export to us).

这是特朗普计划的一部分，旨在扭转美国与大多数主要经济体的贸易逆差。向印度出售F-35战斗机，既能确保美国军工复合体获得一笔可观的交易，又能减少美国与印度的贸易逆差（通过增加美国对印度的出口，而不是进口。目前美国从印度进口的商品多于其出口到印度的商品）。

Sun
US is not suddenly interested in selling F-35 to india since long back US is planning to sell F35 to India but hesitates as indian have s400.
Selling F-35 to india will a very big geopolitical win for USA as there is a unofficial policy of india to not buy american fighter jet. Selling F35 will make US defence manufacturers get multi billion doller contract and will able to make more india dependent for defense need from USA.

美国并非突然对向印度出售F-35感兴趣。长期以来，美国一直计划向印度出售F-35，但由于印度拥有S-400防空系统，美国一直犹豫不决。
向印度出售F-35将为美国带来巨大的地缘政治胜利，因为印度有一项非正式政策，即不购买美国战斗机。出售F-35将使美国防务制造商获得数十亿美元的合同，并进一步使印度在防务需求上依赖美国。

Somnath Ghosh
I am reading posts that F-35 is trash and riddled with problems, apparently based on information available on Google search
Hardly a way to assess the merits/demerits of an aircraft
I know nothing about the technicalities of any aircraft, civil or military and as such will skip any discussion on this

我看到一些帖子称F-35是垃圾，存在诸多问题，这些说法显然是基于谷歌搜索得到的信息。
但这绝不是评估一架飞机优缺点的合理方式。
我对任何民用或军用飞机的技术细节一无所知，因此我将跳过这方面的讨论。

There are seriously good experts on this subject in the IAF, who will definitely analyze the offer of the US from every angle. As to what is the reason for US wanting to sell these aircrafts to India is essentially the subject of this question
The US wants India to fork out USD 50 billion quickly to bring their trade balance with India under control
This cannot be achieved through conventional exports by the US, be it bourbon or Harley Davidson bikes
It requires an import by India of a genuine big ticket item, which will balance out the trade deficit in favour of the US or at least bring parity
It is a business deal, guised as military support and assistance
India is under no compulsion to buy F-35s. It is only a condescending offer, considering the rave publicity the F-35 has received lately, whether through US propaganda or actual performance

印度空军中有一些非常优秀的专家，他们肯定会从各个角度分析美国的这一提议。至于美国为何希望向印度出售这些飞机，这正是这个问题的核心所在。
美国希望印度迅速支付500亿美元，以控制与印度的贸易平衡。通过传统的美国出口商品，无论是波旁威士忌还是哈雷戴维森摩托车，都无法实现这一目标。
这需要印度进口真正的“大件商品”，以平衡贸易逆差，至少实现贸易平衡。这是一笔商业交易，伪装成军事支持和援助。
印度没有购买F-35的义务。鉴于F-35最近受到的大量宣传，无论是通过美国的宣传还是实际性能，这只是一个屈尊俯就的提议

India is definitely in need of 5G/6G aircraft to reach par levels with China
The Rafale deal was good at the time it was entered into, but the time has arrived to go a step further ahead
The other options available at the moment are Chinese/Turkish aircraft, both which are non-starters for India anyway
I am not considering our home grown variety, which seems to be perpetually at the planning and design stage with a few prototypes being put on display now and then
The IAF is already 10–12 squadrons down and there seems to be no urgency to fulfill our requirement of 114 aircrafts, which has often been declared as an immediate need

印度确实需要5代/6代战斗机，以与中国平起平坐。阵风战斗机在当时是一个不错的选择，但现在是时候更进一步了。
目前可用的其他选择是中国和土耳其的战斗机，但这些对印度来说都是不可行的。
我不考虑我们自主研发的型号，它似乎永远停留在规划和设计阶段，偶尔展示一些原型机。
印度空军已经减少了10到12个中队，似乎没有紧迫感去满足我们对114架飞机的需求，这常常被宣布为一项迫切需要。

The IAF is openly unhappy at the tardy progress of HAL and there seems to be no alternative to repose faith in our much touted Make in India initiative
Thus, we have to weigh the pros and cons of indigenous manufacture and outside purchase, as our lack of clarity and speed in decision making, is giving our enemies a decided advantage
It is true that Russia has been our trusted supplier for long and our Airforce ecosystem is built largely around it. To disturb this ecosystem will be fraught with risk and financially ruinous. As such, if Russia has a comparable product, we should take a closer look at it, rather than waiting indefinitely for our Make in India programme to fructify

印度空军对印度斯坦航空有限公司（HAL）的缓慢进展公开表示不满，似乎没有替代方案来信任我们大肆宣传的“印度制造”计划。
因此，我们必须权衡自主研发和外部采购的利弊，因为我们在决策上的缺乏明确性和速度，这给了我们的敌人一个决定性的优势。
确实，俄罗斯长期以来一直是我们的可靠供应商，我们的空军生态系统也主要围绕它构建。扰乱这一生态系统将充满风险，且在经济上可能是毁灭性的。因此，如果俄罗斯有类似的产品，我们应该更仔细地考虑，而不是无限期地等待我们的“印度制造”计划取得成果。

If we reject the F-35 option, tariffs with be levied and we should brace ourselves for it
The F-35, offer in short is an arm twisting tactic employed by the US to address their trade concern vis a vis India and we have to assess whether we have the resilience to counter it or not

如果我们拒绝F-35，美国可能会征收关税，我们必须为此做好准备。
简而言之，F-35的提议是美国为解决与印度的贸易问题而采取的一种施压手段，我们必须评估自己是否有足够的韧性来应对它。

Jeevan Kothari
Not the US , but Mr. Trump personally & surely wants to do it. Since his trick of deporting shackled & handcuffed Indians illegally staying or trying to intrude in US has failed Indian govt. to take the cost upon themselves. Hence the exorbitant cost of catching illegal Indian, maintaining & deporting them has to be somehow recovered from the Indian Govt. & the best way is thru these kind of business dealing. Remember how Trump previously boasted about a statement of building a wall at the Mexican border to fend off the illegal immigrants & make Mexico pay for the same.

不是美国政府，而是特朗普先生本人，他肯定想这么做。 自从他驱逐那些非法滞留或试图进入美国的印度人（这些人被戴上手铐和脚镣）的伎俩失败后，印度政府拒绝承担相关费用。因此，抓捕非法印度人、维持其生活并将其驱逐出境的高昂成本，必须通过某种方式从印度政府那里收回，而最好的方式就是通过这类商业交易。还记得特朗普之前吹嘘要在美墨边境建墙以阻挡非法移民，并让墨西哥为此买单吗？

Mr. Trump wants to scrap of the F35 fighters at the advice of his high profile side kick Elon musk who considers these F35 as nothing but a kind of costly trash when in comparison with modern day drones & hypersonic missile & space technology which he considers more futuristic. Thus by cutting of the aircraft company’s business & govt. grants, he wants the US govt. to concentrate & support, promote & fund his space X business. This would also ensure Mr. Trumps single point focus on him. Now Trump might be wanting to recover the cost of development & compensating the F35 manufacturer (Lockheed martin) thru the sale of the same to India & also thru yearly maintenance (via spares training etc) at the Indian cost. This outwardly can be also be projected to boosts the ties & new era of Indo US defense ties & collaborations that no one but only India is the recipient of this kind of 5th generation technology & matching/neutralizing the Chinese 5th gen aircrafts, though the real fact remains that this is akin to parking of a Rolls Royce outside your zopadpatti. (That is the most ideal place to end up with buying, training & maintaining (Software upgrade+Hardware) these F35 illegal immigrants in our country)

特朗普先生在埃隆·马斯克的建议下，希望淘汰F-35战斗机。 马斯克认为，与现代无人机、高超音速导弹和太空技术相比，F-35不过是一种昂贵的垃圾，而后者在他看来更具未来感。因此，通过削减飞机公司的业务和政府补贴，他希望美国政府专注于支持、推广并资助他的SpaceX业务，这也将确保特朗普的注意力完全集中在他身上。
现在，特朗普可能希望通过将F-35出售给印度，并通过每年的维护（包括备件、培训等）从印度那里收回开发成本，并补偿F-35制造商洛克希德·马丁公司。 表面上看，这也可以被宣传为加强印美防务关系与合作的新时代，仿佛只有印度才是这种五代机技术的受益者，并且能够与中国五代机相抗衡。尽管事实是，这就像在你的破旧小屋外停了一辆劳斯莱斯。（这就是购买、训练和维护这些F-35的最理想结果。）

Another fact is by operating this so called hitech aircraft, since no tech transfer is involved, the sorties (Cost of 0ne sortie is approx. 13 lakh+ IR ) of these planes at the Indo China & Indo pak borders at Indian cost could log in very important data about military & defense development/deployment in those areas as well as about the Planes performance/parameters in these terrain could as well be transmitted back to the servers in US. These parameters could help redefine/tune the planes avionics, flight components, parameters & overall performance. This could as well prove to be an important ingredients for the development of their future manned / unmanned aircrafts. Probably all at the Indian cost & risk.

另一个事实是，由于没有技术转让，印度需要承担在中印和印巴边境操作这种所谓的高科技飞机的成本（一次飞行的成本约为130万印度卢比）。 这些飞行可以收集有关这些地区军事和防务发展/部署的重要数据，同时也可以将这些飞机在这些地形中的性能/参数数据传回美国的服务器。这些参数可以帮助重新定义/调整飞机的航空电子设备、飞行部件、参数和整体性能。 这也可以成为他们未来有人/无人飞机发展的关键要素。而所有这些可能都要印度来承担成本和风险。

Also Mr. Trump knows very well that India has made a lot of money by by passing the sanctions & buying cheap oil from Russia & Iran & selling them to Europe & now US wants shares for the same thru the sale of these kinda white elephants.
Though Mr. Trump may be wanting to force a bargain dealing this for the businessman & our govt, official trapped by them is yet to be seen.
But what Mr. Trumps fails to understand is there are more crooked business men in India far what the US can think of & handle, putting them in serious entanglement.

此外，特朗普先生很清楚，印度通过绕过制裁、从俄罗斯和伊朗购买廉价石油并将其卖给欧洲赚了不少钱。 现在美国希望通过出售这些“白象”（指昂贵且无用的东西）来分一杯羹。
尽管特朗普可能试图强迫达成这笔交易，但我们的政府是否会被困其中还有待观察。
然而，特朗普先生没有意识到的是，印度的商人比美国能想到的还要狡猾得多，这可能会让他们陷入严重的困境。

Query: “Should India go for F35 aircrafts from US to counterbalance Chinas Chengdu class or J35 planes”
The decision for India to acquire the F-35 aircraft from the United States to counterbalance China's Chengdu J-20 or J-35 planes is a complex one, involving strategic, economic, and geopolitical considerations. Here are some key points to consider:

问题：“印度是否应该从美国采购F-35战斗机以制衡中国的成都歼-20或歼-35飞机？”
印度从美国采购F-35战斗机以制衡中国的成都歼-20或歼-35飞机是一个复杂的决定，涉及战略、经济和地缘政治因素。以下是需要考虑的一些关键点：

Strategic Considerations:
Technological Edge: The F-35 is a fifth-generation multirole stealth fighter with advanced avionics, sensor fusion, and network-centric warfare capabilities. It could provide India with a significant technological edge over China's J-20 and J-35, which are also fifth-generation fighters but may have different operational capabilities and limitations.

战略因素：
技术优势： F-35是一款第五代多功能隐身战斗机，具备先进的航空电子设备、传感器融合和网络中心战能力。它可能使印度在技术上对中国歼-20和歼-35形成显著优势，尽管后两者也是第五代战斗机，但可能在作战能力和限制方面有所不同。

Interoperability: Acquiring the F-35 could enhance interoperability with U.S. and NATO forces, which could be beneficial in joint operations and intelligence sharing. This could be particularly important in the context of the Quad (India, U.S., Japan, Australia) and other multilateral initiatives aimed at countering Chinese influence in the Indo-Pacific.
Deterrence: The presence of F-35s in the Indian Air Force could serve as a strong deterrent against C aggression, particularly in contested regions like the Line of Actual Control (LAC) and the Indian Ocean Region (IOR).

互操作性： 采购F-35可能增强印度与美国和北约部队的互操作性，这在联合行动和情报共享中可能非常有利。这在“四方安全对话”（印度、美国、日本、澳大利亚）和其他旨在制衡中国在印太地区影响力的多边倡议中尤为重要。
威慑力： 印度空军装备F-35可能对C的侵略行为形成强大威慑，尤其是在实际控制线（LAC）和印度洋地区（IOR）等争议地区。

Economic Considerations:
Cost: The F-35 is an expensive platform, both in terms of acquisition and lifecycle costs. India would need to weigh the benefits against the financial burden, especially given the need to modernize other branches of its military and address domestic economic challenges.
Indigenous Development: India has been investing in its own fifth-generation fighter program, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA). Acquiring the F-35 could either complement or compete with this indigenous effort, depending on how it is integrated into India's broader defense strategy.

经济因素：
成本： F-35是一个昂贵的平台，无论是采购成本还是全生命周期成本都很高。印度需要权衡其带来的好处与经济负担，尤其是考虑到还需要现代化其他军种并解决国内经济挑战。
国产发展： 印度一直在投资自己的第五代战斗机项目，即先进中型战斗机（AMCA）。采购F-35可能会与这一国产努力相辅相成，也可能产生竞争，这取决于它如何融入印度的总体国防战略。

Geopolitical Considerations:
U.S.-India Relations: Purchasing the F-35 could further strengthen the strategic partnership between India and the United States. However, it could also complicate relations with Russia, which has been a traditional supplier of military hardware to India, including the S-400 air defense system.

地缘政治因素：
美印关系： 采购F-35可能进一步加强印美战略伙伴关系。然而，这也可能使印度与俄罗斯的关系复杂化，因为俄罗斯一直是印度军事装备的传统供应商——包括S-400防空系统。

Regional Dynamics: The acquisition of F-35s could escalate regional tensions, particularly with China and Pakistan. It could lead to an arms race in the region, with potential implications for regional stability.
Technology Transfer and Sovereignty: Any deal for the F-35 would likely come with stringent conditions regarding technology transfer, usage, and maintenance. India would need to ensure that these conditions do not compromise its strategic autonomy.

地区动态： 采购F-35可能加剧地区紧张局势，尤其是与中国和巴基斯坦的关系。这可能导致地区军备竞赛，对地区稳定产生潜在影响。
技术转让与主权： 任何关于F-35的交易都可能附带严格的技术转让、使用和维护条件。印度需要确保这些条件不会损害其战略自主权。

Operational Considerations:
Infrastructure and Training: The F-35 requires significant infrastructure and training to operate effectively. India would need to invest in new facilities, training programs, and logistics chains to support the aircraft.
Maintenance and Support: The F-35's advanced technology requires specialized maintenance and support, which could be a challenge for India's existing defense infrastructure. Long-term support agreements with the U.S. would be crucial.

作战因素：
基础设施和培训： F-35需要大量基础设施和培训才能有效运行。印度需要投资建设新的设施、培训计划和后勤链来支持这种飞机。
维护与支持： F-35的先进技术需要专门的维护和支持，这可能对印度现有的国防基础设施构成挑战。与美国的长期支持协议至关重要。

Conclusion:
While the F-35 could provide India with a significant strategic advantage, the decision to acquire it must be carefully weighed against economic, geopolitical, and operational considerations. India would need to ensure that such a move aligns with its broader defense strategy, enhances its strategic autonomy, and does not lead to unintended regional escalations. Additionally, the potential impact on indigenous defense programs and relations with other key partners like Russia must be thoroughly uated.

结论：
尽管F-35可能为印度带来显著的战略优势，但采购这一战斗机的决定必须谨慎权衡经济、地缘政治和作战因素。印度需要确保这一举措符合其总体国防战略，增强其战略自主权，并且不会导致地区局势意外升级。此外，对国产国防项目的影响以及与俄罗斯等关键伙伴的关系也需要进行深入评估。