为什么美国突然对向印度出售F-35战斗机感兴趣？

Li Pengii
India despite all the big problems happening there? Is going to be a significant power sometime in the future.
The F-35 is a second trojan horse for India.
The second one? The first one was this
Monsanto, did some really nasty things with their seeds to Indian cotton farmers.
The F-35 is the same. Once you say yes to the F-35 it’s like a cuckoo, it gets to a point where there’s so much money sunk into it you can’t cancel it.

尽管印度存在诸多重大问题，但它未来仍将成为一个重要的力量。
F-35对印度而言是第二个“特洛伊木马”。
第二个？第一个是孟山都（Monsanto）。它对印度棉农的种子做了许多极其恶劣的事情。
F-35也是如此。一旦印度接受了F-35，它就像一只杜鹃鸟——一旦投入大量资金，就很难取消。

Monsanto sold GM cotton seeds in India.
They advertised that they didn’t need pesticides against bollworm.
Monsanto also said they provided 4 times the yield of traditional cotton. The seeds were expensive, but the Indian farmers could buy them at a huge discount if they swapped their regular cotton seeds for the GM ones which guess what were single generation (the seeds from these plants were sterile and couldn’t be regrown). Monsanto accidentally forgot to tell the Indian farmers this.
The GM cotton seeds did were not pest resistant, the GM cotton seeds produced far less cotton than promised. Oh and they also needed Monsanto brand fertilizer and pesticides.
After a couple years Monsanto jacked up the prices massively. With no self replicating seeds millions of cotton farmers were trapped by Monsanto. About 500,000 farmers ended up hanging themselves because of it.
BUT by 2018 I think Indian nationalists forced the buyout of Monsanto India and their predatory practices ended.

孟山都在印度销售转基因棉花种子。他们宣传这些种子不需要使用针对棉铃虫的农药。孟山都还声称，转基因棉花的产量是传统棉花的四倍。这些种子价格昂贵，但如果印度棉农用自己的普通棉花种子换取转基因种子，他们可以享受巨大折扣。然而，这些转基因种子是一代性的（这些植物的种子是不育的，无法再次种植），孟山都却“意外地”忘记了告诉印度棉农这一点。
转基因棉花种子并不具有抗虫性，其产量也远低于承诺的水平。而且，这些种子还需要使用孟山都品牌的化肥和农药。几年后，孟山都大幅提高了价格。由于没有能够自我繁殖的种子，无数棉农被孟山都困住了，大约有50万棉农因此自杀。
但到了2018年，我认为印度民族主义者迫使孟山都印度公司被收购，其掠夺性行为也随之结束。

Charles Bay
India should follow China’s path to prosperity by focusing on building it's economy and improving the standards of living for its people. Instead, it is dancing to the Western tune and grandstanding with the Western leaders.

印度应该效仿中国的繁荣之路，专注于发展经济，提高人民的生活水平。然而，印度却在迎合西方的节奏，在西方领导人面前哗众取宠。

Get your ducks in the right order, India. Erase that imaginary demon out of your head. China is not going to invade you. Instead of meddling with geopolitics, focus instead on improving the life and living condition of your people. Respect will come when you have lifted your citizens out of poverty, improved literacy rates, modernised your infrastructure and cleaned up your environment.

印度，请先理顺自己的事务，把头脑中的“假想敌”赶走,中国不会入侵你。与其插手地缘政治，不如专注于改善人民的生活和生活条件。当你让公民摆脱贫困，提高识字率，现代化基础设施并清理环境时，尊重自然会随之而来。

Theophilus E.Daniel-Kagbare
Your counsel will do Ukraine a lot of good. Their inane infatuation with the West has cost them a lot of lives already.

你的建议对乌克兰也会有很大帮助。他们对西方的盲目迷恋已经让他们付出了许多生命代价。

Keith Butzbach
Yea, don’t worry, give all the Nukes to Russia, they won’t invade you, Russia signed a treaty to protect your boards. We have a saying. “Yea right!” How well did trusting Russia did that turn out for Ukraine. C has already tried to take some of India’s territory! Don’t trust anyone! Especially not dictator ships run by megalomaniac’s.

别担心，把所有的核武器都交给俄罗斯，他们不会入侵你。俄罗斯签署了一项保护你边界的条约。我们有一句俗话：“说得对！”信任俄罗斯的结果对乌克兰来说如何呢？C已经试图侵占印度的部分领土！不要信任任何人！尤其是那些由妄自尊大的独裁者统治的国家。

Robert Lessant
It’s better than the crap they bought from the Russians. When Ukraine started destroying Russian hardware so easily with western weapons, India must have looked at its massive arsenal of Russian weapons and judged them obsolete. No wonder they turn to the West.

这比他们从俄罗斯购买的东西要好得多。当乌克兰开始用西方武器轻松摧毁俄罗斯装备时，印度一定审视了自己庞大的俄罗斯武器库，并认为它们已经过时了。难怪他们会转向西方。

Christopher Bong
Thought it was the other way around. All that game changing Abrams, Leopard, F16s all became scrap irons.

我以为情况正好相反。那些堪称游戏规则改变者的艾布拉姆斯坦克、豹式坦克和F-16战斗机都变成了废铁。

Charles Bay
If you were to ask the Chinese, you will hear another version of the story to the never-ending Indian-Chinese border saga. Each side have their own grievances to gripe about. The difference being, for someone looking from the outside, it would appear to me that the anger from the Indian side seems to be disproportionately magnified compared to how the Chinese feel about it. The India-China border issues are complicated and deeply entrenched. And to be honest, the land involved is of not much economic value other than national pride is at stake. But hey, what price is pride?! These two great nations should set all the pride and emotions to aside and settle the border issues once and for all. Any sq km of land ceded will be amply repaid by the peaceful economic cooperation that ensues. I hope wisdom prevails.

如果你去问中国人，关于中印边界无尽争端，你会听到另一个版本。双方都有各自的不满。但作为一个旁观者，我觉得印度方面的愤怒似乎被不成比例地放大了，相比之下，中国人对此的感受则要淡得多。中印边界问题复杂且根深蒂固。老实说，除了关乎国家尊严外，涉及的土地并没有太多经济价值。但尊严是无价的！这两个伟大的国家应该放下所有的尊严和情绪，一劳永逸地解决边界问题。任何一方让出的每一平方公里土地，都将通过和平的经济合作得到丰厚的回报，我希望智慧能够占上风。

Enter Sandman
China invaded India in 2020 in Galwan. They won’t do it again.

中国在2020年加勒万事件中入Q了印度，他们不会再这么做了。

Charles Bay
No they won't, unless provoked again.

除非再次被挑衅，否则他们不会。

Charles Bay
I wonder why Pakistan is ‘unstable’ to India and not to its other neighbouring countries? Anyway, how many fighter jets, tanks and nuclear weapons does India needs in order to be not fearful? An F35 costs around $80-100 millions and over $1 trillion, yes TRILLION, to operate and maintain over it's 60+ years of life cycle. Imagine how many houses, schools, bridges, roads, railways and dams can be built from this insane amount of money? Imagine the benefits it will bring to the poor people of India and how many generations will be lifted out of poverty? Instead, the politicians chose to spend it to satisfy their ego and vanity.

我很好奇，为什么巴基斯坦对印度来说是“不稳定”的，而对其其它邻国不是“不稳定”的因素？不管怎样，印度需要多少战斗机、坦克和核武器才能不再感到恐惧？一架F-35的成本大约在8,000万到1亿美元之间，其60多年的生命周期内的运营和维护成本超过1万亿美元，是的，是万亿美元！想象一下，用这一大笔钱可以建造多少房屋、学校、桥梁、道路、铁路和大坝？想象一下，这将为印度的穷人带来多大的好处，能让多少代人摆脱贫困？然而，政客们却选择用这笔钱来满足他们的自尊和虚荣心。

Vikas Nair
But Garibi Hatao has been heard since the first caveman days. In the meantime China invaded Congress India in 1962 and occupited 10000 hectares of Indian land.

“消除贫困”（Garibi Hatao）的口号自人类早期就已存在。与此同时，中国在1962年入Q了国大党统治的印度，并"占领"了1万公顷的印度土地。

Charles Bay
When you have two opposing armies facing each other at such close proximity, clashes bound to flare up. For each skirmish, India will no doubt accuse China as being the aggressor, while China will also have its version of story to tell. Rather than allowing national pride to stand in the way, these two great civilisations should look at the big picture and settle the border issues pragmatically and amicably for their mutual benefits.

当两支对立的军队如此近距离地对峙时，冲突是必然会发生的。对于每一次小规模冲突，印度无疑会指责中国是侵略者，而中国也会有自己的说法。与其让民族自豪感成为绊脚石，这两个伟大的文明应当立足于大局，以务实和友好的态度解决边界问题，从而实现双方的共同利益。

Just to reiterate what I said in my early post, each F-35 costs around $80–100 million. Not a lot of money. But wait for this, the operational and maintenance costs for its 60+ years of life cycle is a whopping 1.3 trillion. Yes, TRILLION! Imagine how many houses, schools, roads, bridges, clean water supply systems, railways, etc India could build with this money? How many lives of Indian people will be transformed?

正如我在之前的帖子中提到的，每架F-35的成本大约在8,000万到1亿美元之间，这不算什么大钱。但等一下，其60多年的生命周期内的运营和维护成本高达1.3万亿美元！是的，万亿美元！想象一下，印度可以用这笔钱建造多少房屋、学校、道路、桥梁、清洁水供应系统、铁路等？多少印度人的生活将因此得到改变？

Peter Hsieh
Why should Bharat Empire with 10,000 years history needed to follow China at all. To Bharat Empire leaders, China is much much inferior to them in which Bharat can do everything under the sun.

拥有1万年历史的“婆罗多帝国”（Bharat Empire）为什么需要向中国学习？在婆罗多帝国领导人眼中，中国远远不如他们，婆罗多帝国可以做到一切。

Vinish Shetty
Ya ya we know how living conditions are in a one party state.

我们知道一党制国家的生活条件是怎样的。

Dave Kwan
What is the purpose of a F35 if they do not allow them to be used unless approved by the US? That itself should make one question its purchase cos effectively one has no sovereign usage of them.

如果F-35战斗机的使用必须得到美国的批准，那么购买它们的意义何在呢？这本身就让人质疑其采购的合理性，因为这意味着你实际上无法自主使用这些战斗机。

Bill Chen
If it was at all possible, the US will sell f35 to all of china's neighbors, just to contain it.
Why? China has its own stealth jets.
The US wants to put india's trillion dollar economy to work countering china's rise, as competition and adversary.
The f35 will be packaged with strings attached. More sweetheart access for US Mncs in the Indian market, while locking out the Chinese. Build up naval dominance of the Indian ocean as part of indopacom strategy to threaten china's trade routes. Dangle the carrot of cutting edge military technology to prevent/reduce indian reliance on Russian weaponry.

如果可能的话，美国会向中国所有邻国出售F-35，完全是为了遏制中国。
为什么？中国有自己的隐形战斗机。
美国希望利用印度的万亿美元经济来对抗中国的崛起，将其视为竞争对手和对手。出售F-35将附带附加条件。美国跨国公司将在印度市场获得更多优惠准入，同时将中国排除在外。作为印太战略的一部分，美国将通过印度在印度洋建立海军优势，威胁中国的贸易路线。美国还会通过提供尖端军事技术来减少印度对俄罗斯武器的依赖。

Joseph Xue
The US currently can’t deliver their F35s cause China sanctioned Lockheed Martin LMao.

美国目前无法交付F-35，因为中国制裁了洛克希德·马丁公司（Lockheed Martin），哈哈。

Bill Chen
Missing some electronics. The engines may have problems soon.

缺少一些电子设备，发动机可能很快也会出现问题。

Lonely Cantonese Sith Lord
The yield of the Monsanto crops was nowhere near the amount that was promised, and the product turned out to be inferior to traditional Indian cotton. They were also highly dependant on Monsanto’s expensive pesticides and fertilisers, not to mention they’re single-generation crops. Many Indian farmers committed suicide as a result. All of this is well documented.

孟山都的作物产量远远达不到承诺的水平，其产品也不如传统印度棉花。它们还高度依赖孟山都昂贵的农药和化肥，更不用说它们是一代作物。许多印度农民因此自杀，所有这些都有充分的记录。

Monsanto’s Cotton Strategy Wears Thin
From the toes of our socks to the hem of our necklines, Americans alone consume 25 percent of the world’s cotton, mostly in the form of clothing and home furnishings. People are often surprised to learn that the world’s largest purveyors of cotton seeds (about 80-90 percent of market share in some cotton-producing countries), is a company generally assumed to be focused on food stock. When pulling on their pants in the morning, most people don’t think about Monsanto.

孟山都的棉花战略逐渐失效
从我们的袜子脚趾到领口边缘，美国人独自消费了全球25%的棉花，大多以服装和家居装饰品的形式存在。人们常常惊讶地发现，世界上最大的棉花种子供应商（在一些棉花生产国拥有80-90%的市场份额）是一家通常被认为专注于食品的公司。当人们早上穿上裤子时，大多数人并不会想到孟山都。

When it was first introduced in 1996, Monsanto’s genetically engineered (GE) cotton seemed like a dream come true. The fact that the plant protected itself from pesky bollworms with a genetically induced insecticide meant that farmers would save money on pest control, and the environment could be spared tonnes of harsh chemical sprays. Farmers who previously relied on dangerous pesticides and plowing of the land to bury weeds were able to switch to RoundUp assisted, no-till styles of agriculture that curbed soil erosion and reduced the runoff of fertilizers from the land.

1996年孟山都的转基因（GE）棉花首次推出时，似乎是一个梦想成真的时刻。这种植物通过基因诱导的杀虫剂保护自己免受讨厌的棉铃虫侵害，这意味着农民可以在害虫防治上节省开支，环境也可以免受大量有害化学喷雾的侵害。过去依赖危险农药和翻土埋草的农民能够转向使用除草剂辅助的免耕农业，减少水土流失和化肥流失。

However, after the first harvest of Monsanto’s GE cotton, outraged American farmers began filing lawsuits against Monsanto, claiming that the company misrepresented the effectiveness of their product. Farmers claimed the GE cotton failed to repel bollworms on over a million and a half acres. In addition, complaints poured in that bolls (the soft fuzzy part of the plant that contains the actual cotton fibers — without which there is no harvest), were falling off the plants in the states of Louisiana, Tennessee, Arkansas and Mississippi. Unmodified approach Monsanto was not deterred.

然而，在孟山都转基因棉花的首次收获后，愤怒的美国农民开始对孟山都提起诉讼，声称该公司夸大了其产品的有效性。农民声称转基因棉花未能在超过150万英亩的土地上驱赶棉铃虫。此外，路易斯安那州、田纳西州、阿肯色州和密西西比州的棉农纷纷投诉，称棉铃（即植物上柔软的棉桃部分，其中包含实际的棉纤维，没有它就没有收成）从植株上脱落。然而，孟山都并未因此退缩。

They continued to develop their GE plants, gradually improving their performance. In the meantime however, the troublesome pests evolved as well. By 2009, on farms across the southern half of the United States, Monsanto’s Roundup was less capable than ever at fending off weeds, such as the remarkably prolific pigweed (Palmer amaranth). Seven feet tall when fully grown, pigweed quickly choked out anything else trying to grow in its shadow. Consequently, more and more sprays were needed to contain pests of both the animal and plant varieties.

他们继续改良转基因植物，逐步提升其性能。然而，在此期间，那些令人头疼的害虫也在不断进化。到了2009年，在美国南部的许多农场，孟山都的农达除草剂（Roundup）在抵御杂草方面变得越来越力不从心，尤其是面对一种繁殖能力极强的杂草——猪毛菜（Palmer amaranth）。猪毛菜成熟时可高达七英尺，它会迅速遮蔽其他植物，使它们无法在其阴影下生长。因此，为了控制杂草和害虫，农民不得不使用越来越多的喷雾剂。

Farmers crouched in their fields to pull weeds by hand for the first time in decades, and saw their expenses increase further when they were forced to hire extra hands to get the work done. Then there was the issue of insecticides. [quote quote=”World wide, cotton is doused with more chemicals than any other crop. Though it accounts for just 2.5 percent of the world’s farm land, cotton cultivation is responsible for 16 percent of global insecticide use.” type=”image” image=”3802″ ] World wide, cotton is doused with more chemicals than any other crop.

几十年来，农民们首次不得不蹲在田里亲手拔除杂草，而当他们被迫雇佣额外人手来完成这项工作时，他们的开支进一步增加。此外，杀虫剂的问题也日益凸显。
[引用：“全球范围内，棉花使用的化学药剂比任何其他作物使用的化学药剂都多。尽管其种植面积仅占全球耕地的2.5%，但棉花种植却消耗了全球16%的杀虫剂。”]
在全球范围内，棉花使用的化学药剂比任何其他作物都多。

Santhosh
Well Said. The OP, who belongs to Hongkong or somewhere in China is indulging in willful anti - India propaganda. In order to prevent mutation of Bollworms, Monsanto has advised all Indian farmers to mix Bt & Non Bt Seed, which understandably they did not do (Indian Farmers are generally very poor in disciplined Agronomic practices). which resulted in reduced effectiveness of Bt Cotton. THIS AUTHOR’S ONLY INTENTION IS TO CONFUSE INDO - US RELATIONS.

说得好！楼主可能是香港（特区）或中国其他地方的人，正在故意进行反印宣传。为了防止棉铃虫变异，孟山都建议所有印度农民混合种植嵌入了苏云金芽孢杆菌（Bt）棉种和非Bt棉种，但印度农民显然没有做到（印度农民通常在规范的农艺操作上表现不佳），这导致了Bt棉效果的降低。这位作者的唯一目的就是混淆印美关系。

BL Cheah
I read about this before. But it was so long ago. I had to google to see when it started (year 2002).
Even my story here has a lesson for everybody.
The international media was positive about Monsanto’s new GM cotton seeds. Supposed to be very good, blah blah.
Then the whole thing dropped off my radar. Because international media did its rah-rah for Monsanto, but not a critical follow up. Instead we started reading about ‘high suicide rates’ for Indian farmers a few years later.
With NO CONTEXT.
I didn’t even know they were connected. International media never connected the dots. Instead there were evasive, vague statements about lots of Indian farmers committing suicide. I even assumed that it was the Indians who were covering this up!

我以前读过这方面的内容，但那是很久以前的事了。我不得不通过谷歌搜索才知道这件事是从2002年开始的。
我的经历也给所有人一个教训。
当时，国际媒体对孟山都的新转基因棉种评价很高，说它们非常好，等等。
然后这件事就从我的视野中消失了。因为国际媒体只是为孟山都大唱赞歌，却没有进行批判性的后续报道。相反，几年后我们开始看到有关印度农民“自杀率高”的报道。
报道中没有任何背景信息,我甚至不知道这些事件之间存在联系。国际媒体从未将这些事件联系起来分析，只是含糊地提到许多印度农民自杀。我甚至以为是印度人自己在掩盖真相！

Li Pengii
I first heard about it in 6th form college from my environmental science teacher.
I read about it now and again.

我第一次听说这件事是在读高中六年级时，我的环境科学老师提到的。
之后我偶尔还会看到相关的报道。