大众汽车是如何迷失方向的？

 
Europe’s largest economy is in trouble and Volkswagen is at the heart of the crisis.
The German carmaker is facing existential challenges due to mismanagement, competition from China and the rise of electric vehicles.
In December, about 66,000 workers across Germany abandoned their posts in the first wave of temporary walkouts. With announced job cuts and planned factory closures on the way, the pressure is on for Volkswagen to turn things around.
 
欧洲最大的经济体陷入困境，而大众汽车正处于这场危机的核心。
这家德国汽车制造商因管理不善、来自中国的竞争以及电动车的崛起而面临生存挑战。
12月，德国各地约6.6万名工人首次发起临时罢工。随着宣布裁员和计划关闭工厂，大众汽车面临扭转局面的压力。
 
 
 
@grongrod
All car manufacturers went wrong when they sudenly started to think that cars are throw away items. They are appliances for most people. Replaced only when nedded.
 
当他们突然开始认为汽车是一次性物品时，所有汽车制造商都错了。对大多数人来说，汽车是家用电器，只有在需要时才会更换。
 
 
 
@CBF2020
Selling everyday car at luxury price. It’s suppose to be a car for the common men. They have Audi and Porsche but yet they still selling GOLF R at Porsche pricing. Their downfall isn’t EV adoption its their market segmentation.
 
以奢侈品的价格出售日常用车，而它本应是普通人的车。他们拥有奥迪和保时捷，却仍然以保时捷的价格出售高尔夫R。他们的衰落不是因为电动车的普及，而是因为市场定位错误。
 
 
 
@sambowks
As a VW owner and previous fan, they also don’t listen to their customers, they don’t respect their customers. They alienate their customers. Along with that I find the newest generation design very un-VW, as if someone took a great design and just melted it. I was previously a massive fan of their design language, stylish, subtle, and somehow just German. No longer sadly. Also, we don’t want black gloss plastic, gloss black keys, touch controls for basic functions. I’m looking at a new vehicle but looking at the previous gen (referring to Tiguan)
 
作为大众车主和前粉丝，他们也不听客户的意见，不尊重客户，他们疏远了客户。此外，我觉得最新一代的设计非常不“大众”，就像有人拿了一个伟大的设计然后把它融化了。我以前非常喜欢他们的设计语言，时尚、微妙，而且非常德国，可惜现在不再是这样了。而且，我们不想要高光黑色塑料、高光黑色钥匙和触摸控制的基本功能。我正在看新车，但更倾向于上一代（指的是途观）。
 
 
 
@Hans-k9j
They really asked for this. The diesel scandal, far to high prices and arrogance in Wolfsburg have damaged the company’s reputation.
 
他们真是自找的。柴油门丑闻、过高的价格以及沃尔夫斯堡的傲慢已经损害了公司的声誉。
 
 
 
@wesamal6302
Blaming it all on EVs transition is BS
It has been a while since german made a decent car for a decent price. Most of german cars are overpriced over complicated and use a lot of cheap parts the quality is also questionable
 
把所有责任都推到电动车转型上是胡说八道。
德国已经很久没有以合理的价格制造出像样的车了，大多数德国车都定价过高、过于复杂，并且使用了许多廉价零件，质量也值得怀疑。
 
 
 
@FenrirRobu
Volkswagen is probably the prime example of the current manufacturing trends - build more exclusive, more engineered, higher quality products... that are pointlessly expensive. It seems that in Europe nobody even tries to make things to be cheap and affordable.
The most shocking part of Chinese EVs is not that they had tariffs, but that they even upmark the prices in Europe, because the market is so overpriced. For peace of mind, I recommend not searching the EV prices within China itself.
 
大众可能是当前制造趋势的典型代表——制造更独家、更工程化、更高质量的产品……但这些产品却毫无意义地昂贵。似乎在欧洲，没有人试图让东西变得便宜和实惠。
中国电动车最令人震惊的部分不是它们有关税，而是它们甚至在欧洲加价，因为市场定价过高。为了安心，我建议不要搜索中国国内的电动车价格。
 
 
 
@beatles4sale2007
Too many brands competing, better options with their “lesser” brands (Skoda for example), interest rates shooting up, cost of living crisis, high wages, poor EV models, dieselgate…..the list goes on.
 
因为太多品牌相互竞争，他们的“低端”品牌（比如斯柯达）有更好的选择，利率飙升，生活成本危机，高工资，糟糕的电动车模型，柴油门……问题不胜枚举。
 
 
 
@Ausshops
I owned an Audi A4, massive problems with once it hit 75000 km’s. Talking to other VW branded cars they have the same problem. They make unreliable cars and that burns them having customers buy another one.
 
我曾拥有一辆奥迪A4，一旦行驶到7.5万公里就出现了大量问题。与其他大众品牌的车主交谈后，发现他们也有同样的问题。他们制造不可靠的汽车，这让客户不会再购买第二辆。
 
 
 
@adamwilliams4084
When 2014 VW Golf build quality is much better than 2024 Golf, you know that something has gone wrong. Consumers can’t be fooled with shiny plastics. We want quality for the € we pay, if not we will buy something else. Now they have to deal with the consequences of corporate greed and dependence on ruSSian cheap energy.
 
当2014年大众高尔夫的制造质量比2024年的高尔夫好得多时，你就知道出了问题。消费者不会被闪亮的塑料所愚弄。我们为支付的欧元要求质量，否则我们会买其他东西。现在他们必须面对企业贪婪和依赖俄罗斯廉价能源的后果。
 
 
 
@ruslanmishiyev9815
The biggest issue isn’t even the price, quality has gone downhill so so much. For example, cheap interiors, and even cheaper mechanicals (plastic oil pans), excessive use of plastics in the engine bay, and more.
Japanese cars have also started cutting costs on interiors, but not as bad as Volkswagen yet. They also haven’t cut costs in the mechanicals in a way that affects durability.
 
最大的问题甚至不是价格，而是质量已经大幅下降。例如，廉价的内饰，甚至更廉价的机械部件（塑料油底壳），发动机舱内过度使用塑料等等。
日本车也开始在内饰上削减成本，但还没有像大众那样糟糕。他们也没有以影响耐久性的方式削减机械部件的成本。
 
 
 
@IamTiper
That's what asking for a high price, because 2 decades ago you used to make reliable cars, gets you. Then they thought they had any chance to compete in an electric market in China with said prices. This was all obvious and e.g. Toyota knows it.
 
这就是因为20年前你制造了可靠的车，现在却要求高价的结果。然后他们认为自己有机会以这样的价格在中国电动车市场竞争。这一切都是显而易见的，比如丰田就知道这一点。
 
 
 
@kuglepen64
VW: Arrogance led to corruption in Dieselgate, and heel-dragging in EV development. The era of cheap Russian gas is over and all the structural and self-caused calamities have stacked on top of each other. I could imagine further nationalisation to keep it going, or marque fire sales. That would only delay the inevitable. They look mortally wounded.
 
大众：傲慢导致了柴油门丑闻中的腐败并在电动车开发中拖拖拉拉。廉价俄罗斯天然气的时代已经结束，所有结构性和自我造成的灾难叠加在了一起。我可以想象进一步的国有化以维持运营，或者品牌甩卖，但这只会推迟不可避免的结果。他们看起来已经奄奄一息了。
 
 
 
@kjlovescoffee
I come from a family of VW drivers. We've had half a dozen Golfs in the family. My favourite car I've owned was my (2nd hand) Golf mk1. I'd like a modern Golf, but in my country they cost as much as a modest house. So I drive a Huyndai. It's nice - it has real buttons.
 
我来自一个大众车主的家庭，我们家有过六辆高尔夫，我最喜欢的车是我拥有的（二手）第一代高尔夫。我想要一辆现代的高尔夫，但在我的国家，它们的价格相当于一套普通的房子。所以我开了一辆现代，它很好——它有真正的按钮。
 
 
 
@toyotaprius79
VW was arrogant theor executives and leadership arrogant, cheated their diesel emissions to gain its dominance. They ignored the writing on the wall with regards to EVs and made them premium SUVs with less-expensive base options coming 3 years after lsunch. .
Look at VWs focus on its 15 year lineup diesel or EV - they have trapped themselves in an SUV malaise
 
大众的高管和领导层傲慢，通过作弊柴油排放来获得主导地位。他们忽视了电动车的发展趋势并将其打造成高端SUV，而更便宜的基础选项在发布三年后才推出。
看看大众对其15年柴油或电动车阵容的关注——他们把自己困在了SUV的困境中。
 
 
 
@ChengLZha
I’m not economists, I like golf, so I went to a VW dealership last year in Riverside California, the dealership experience was really bad and the manager was all money business. On top of that, the interface of those new Golf is hard to use and those touch buttons are nightmare, I don’t get it why VW doesn’t focus on it’s design and quality,
 
我不是经济学家，我喜欢高尔夫，所以去年我去了加利福尼亚河滨市的一家大众经销商，在经销商那里的体验非常糟糕，经理只关心钱。除此之外，那些新高尔夫的界面很难使用，触摸按钮简直是噩梦，我不明白为什么大众不专注于设计和质量。
 
 
 
@Alex-pr6zv
If their response to dieselgate would have been to roll out hybrids and EVs, rather than insulting our intelligence with a useless software upxe, they would be in a far better place today.
 
如果他们对柴油门的回应是推出混合动力车和电动车，而不是用无用的软件更新侮辱我们的智商，他们今天的处境会好得多。
 
 
 
@kxmode
I used to have a Jetta, but it became too expensive to service and maintain since most garages and auto shops in my area didn’t service VWs due to the high cost of parts and particular requirements. I switched to a Toyota, and the savings have been huge—there are way more places to get service, and even oil changes are cheaper. That’s one of the reasons VW has been struggling.
 
我曾经有一辆捷达，但由于大多数车库和汽车修理店不维修大众车，因为零件成本高且要求特殊，维修和保养变得太贵。我换了一辆丰田，节省了很多钱——有更多的地方可以维修，甚至换机油也更便宜。这是大众一直在挣扎的原因之一。
 
 
 
@MrFreeman626
I'll be honest Bloomberg this doc feels a little undercooked and too superficial. There was only a minor reference to the slow and unsuccessful adoption of modern R&D techniques and no mention of the energy crisis affecting the entirety of Europe's industry, and perhaps more importantly, the unbelievable cost of these new cars, which are also really hard to repair and maintain in the traditional sense for the average consumer. The workers have a right to protest when their livelihood is being put at risk by shortsighted management.
 
说实话，这部纪录片感觉有点未完成且过于肤浅。只少量提到现代研发技术的缓慢和不成功采用，没有提到影响整个欧洲工业的能源危机，也许更重要的是这些新车的难以置信的成本，对于普通消费者来说，传统意义上的维修和保养也非常困难。当工人的生计因短视的管理而受到威胁时，他们有权抗议。
 
 
 
@drwisdom1
I started driving VWs in 1973 and have a 2015 Sportwagen TDI and a 1992 Corrado SLC, both bought new. But I am never buying another VW because I buy them for the manual transmission and repairability. Without a manual there is no reason for me to buy a VW over a Toyota/Lexus. VW is restricting access by diagnostic tools, so I will no longer be able to fix them. It's over.
 
我从1973年开始开大众车，我拥有一辆2015年的Sportwagen TDI和一辆1992年的Corrado SLC，都是购买的新车。但我再也不会买大众车了，因为我买它们是为了手动变速箱和可维修性。如果没有手动变速箱，我没有理由选择大众而不是丰田/雷克萨斯。大众正在限制诊断工具的访问，所以我将无法再修理它们。一切都结束了。
 
 
 
@joeswyz
My first car is a 2006 Polo sedan when Germany brands equal to premium in China. Shockingly, I found its latest model in 2024 is almost identical to 20 years ago in the tech spec and the looking. That speaks louder than thunder. Volkswagen has got so complacent that they did nothing for 20 year in this fast changing and volatile world. I bought a Model Y instead.
 
我的第一辆车是2006年的Polo三厢车，当时德国品牌在中国等同于高端。令人震惊的是我发现2024年的最新型号在技术规格和外观上几乎与20年前相同，这太令人震惊了。大众变得如此自满，在这个快速变化和动荡的世界中，他们20年来什么都没做。现在我买了一辆Model Y。
 
 
 
@impexRQ
The problem is the German mentally, you can’t do the same as you did 70 years ago and hope things will be working out the same. In today’s ecosystem with the USA and China driving innovation and praising entrepreneurial mindset and taking risk … Germany has not place if they are not willing to change their mindset
 
问题是德国人的心态，你不能像70年前那样做并希望事情会一样顺利。在今天的生态系统中，美国和中国正在推动创新，赞扬创业精神和冒险精神……如果德国不愿意改变他们的心态，他们将没有立足之地。
 
 
 
@dcoughla681
When I was growing up, German cars were THE car to have, driven by affluent, sophisticated people. They were an expensive premium product with solid German quality engineering that was the best in the world. VW Golf cars were driven mainly by women with money. They were usurped by Japanese cars which were lower in price & had improved quality. Then the EU became obsessed with the environment & electrification of vehicles. The problem is Europe & the UK are not fully prepared for it. There aren’t enough charging points. When your country is part of the EU, you lose sovereignty of your country & have to do what the EU says. Also, globalisation & advances in tech have decimated young peoples’ pay so they can’t afford an expensive car. Most young people live in cities where there are plenty of transport options & most local governments have introduced punitive parking restrictions for a cash grab in order to save the environment. The Chinese cars are cheaper to produce & sell but in undercutting competitors, they are setting the stage for a future monopoly. President Trump is doing the right thing. It’s either jobs or tariffs.
 
在我成长的过程中，德国车是必须拥有的车，由富裕、精致的人驾驶。它们是一种昂贵的优质产品，具有世界一流的德国质量工程。大众高尔夫主要由有钱的女性驾驶。现在它们被价格更低、质量更好的日本车取代。然后欧盟开始痴迷于环境和车辆电气化。问题是欧洲和英国并没有完全准备好，充电桩不够。当你的国家是欧盟的一部分时，你失去了国家的主权，必须按照欧盟的要求行事。此外，全球化和技术进步已经大幅削减了年轻人的收入，他们买不起昂贵的车。大多数年轻人生活在城市，那里有很多交通选择，大多数地方政府为了环保而引入了惩罚性的停车限制，实际上是为了捞钱。中国车生产和销售成本更低，但在削弱竞争对手的同时，他们正在为未来的垄断奠定基础。特朗普总统做得对，要么是工作，要么是关税。
 
 
 
@mls.design
This happens, when you produce absolute disgraces of cars (that won't last a minute) but charge the full price - stating that you are the best. Which is by far not true. It's absurd, how many issues those plastic boxes have.
 
当你生产绝对丢脸的汽车（连一分钟都撑不过）却收取全价——声称自己是最好的时候，就会发生这种情况。这些塑料盒子有多少问题，真是荒谬。
 
 
 
@erfquake1
To be fair, VW is very similar to Tesla in that neither company ever had the slightest interest in making a people's (i.e.: affordable) electric car. This created the opportunity for China to move in to the vaccuum and now threatens both companies.
 
公平地说，大众与特斯拉非常相似，两家公司都从未对制造平民（即可负担的）电动车有过丝毫兴趣。这让中国填补了空白，现在他们威胁到了这两家公司。
 
 
 
@andrewboddy3958
They are too expensive in Australia. VW golf life entry model is
40k.AudievenmoreridiculousQ580k. Hyundai, Kia, Mazda etc all 25%cheaper. Chinese 30%. Definitely not the peoples car here. Also EV’s don’t work for everyone’s budget and situation. Just bring back basic quality ICE cars without stopstart and intrusive tech.
 
它们在澳大利亚太贵了。大众高尔夫Life入门款售价4万澳元。奥迪更离谱，Q5售价8万澳元。现代、起亚、马自达等便宜25%，中国车便宜30%。大众在这里绝对不是平民车。此外，电动车并不适合每个人的预算和情况。大众只需带回没有启停和侵入式技术的具有基本质量的内燃机车即可。
 
 
 
@led0073
VW group recently paid shareholders 4.5 billion Euros, letting the greedy rich get even richer. If these companies were run correctly, the management would tell the shareholders no to taking money out of the business until they can sort out it's issues.
 
大众集团最近向股东支付了45亿欧元，这让贪婪的富人变得更富。如果这些公司管理得当，管理层应该告诉股东，在解决问题之前不要从公司抽走资金。
 
 
 
@today05
Vw cars got incredibly expensive in the last decade or so. Even compared to other legacy automakers. They priced out their market, and now they are wondering why people dont buy their cars. Also they make the stupidest decisions, like making a cabrio-suv on a polo platform: the definition of an useless overpriced garbage instead of a sensible, reasonably priced car.
And yeah they make spar-models: those are literally worse than their base models from a couple generations back, with rock hard plastics. I guess profit was above all for the last period, and now it caught up with them.
 
大众汽车在过去十年左右变得异常昂贵，甚至与其他传统汽车制造商相比也是如此。他们将市场定价过高，现在却在疑惑为什么人们不买他们的车。他们还做出了一些最愚蠢的决定，比如在Polo平台上制造一款敞篷SUV：这完全是无用的、定价过高的垃圾，而不是一款合理定价的实用车型。
而且他们还推出了所谓的“简化版”车型：这些车型实际上比几代前的基型车还要差，使用了硬塑料。我想利润在过去一段时间里是他们的首要目标，而现在他们为此付出了代价。
 
 
 
@andreyperepic8125
True about big troubles with Software. Most of Germany manufacturers still use programs and standards from late 90-th. This is real nightmare to work there.
But at a same time, we have a lot of progress and optimizations, when every block, light, multimedia in a car needs to be adopted and require dealer SW to start working. So, on modem VW you can not replace xenon light by yourself. And this significantky increases cost of maintenance
 
确实，软件方面存在很大问题，大多数德国制造商仍然使用上世纪90年代末的程序和标准。在那里工作简直是噩梦。
但与此同时，我们也有很多进展和优化，比如车内的每个模块、灯光、多媒体都需要适配，并且需要经销商软件才能启动。因此，在现代大众汽车上，你无法自己更换氙气大灯，这大大增加了维护成本。
 
 
 
@brhodes0
Drones on for nearly 10 minutes just to say its mainly not managing the switch to EV as well as others and not being able to write decent software. There ya go there's 10 minutes of your life back treat yourself to a nice cup of tea.
 
喋喋不休地说了将近10分钟，结果只是说大众在向电动汽车转型方面不如其他公司，而且写不出像样的软件。好了，现在你可以把这10分钟还给自己，去喝杯好茶吧。
 
 
 
@joebloggs24
As a VW owner, I have to comment that their dealership network is rubbish - total garbage service. Arrogant & rude on the phone, seems that any product you want to buy is inconvenient for them to give you a price on it. Expensive services & parts, long wait times, poor customer service sees the marketshare drop when new alternatives hit the market. I have enjoyed driving my VW but am scrapping it soon to buy Chinese EV. Ridiculous pricing and too many things to regularly maintain.
 
作为一名大众车主，我不得不评论说他们的经销商网络简直糟透了——服务完全不行。电话里傲慢无礼，似乎你想买的任何产品对他们来说都不方便报价。昂贵的服务和零件，漫长的等待时间，糟糕的客户服务使得市场份额在新替代品进入市场时下降。我很享受驾驶我的大众，但很快就要把它报废，去买一辆中国电动车了。荒谬的定价和太多需要定期维护的东西。
 
 
 
@samuxan
When you notice that the problem is not as bad as other brands of the group like skoda, audi or seat you can pinpoint that the problem is the missplace focus on software and absurd touch controls on the new models and no so much with the slowness on adapting to EVs or foreign competitors
 
当你注意到问题不像集团的其他品牌（如斯柯达、奥迪或西雅特）那么严重时，你可以确定问题在于对新车型软件和荒谬的触摸控制的错误关注，而不是在适应电动汽车或外国竞争对手方面的迟缓。
 
 
 
@skyworks1621
I knew 2 years ago when I sold my Audi for a Tesla that car market was changing fast and normal German cars that used to be sold as cakes on our roads were not sold so much any more. Germany and specialy VW and also Audi were slow to adapt. Future does not look bright with dept on the rise. Look at Nissan, they have 1 year to find an investor or be forever forgoten.
 
两年前，当我卖掉我的奥迪换了一辆特斯拉时，我就知道汽车市场正在快速变化，曾经在我们道路上热销的普通德国车不再那么受欢迎了。德国，尤其是大众和奥迪，适应得太慢了。随着债务的增加，未来看起来并不光明。看看日产，他们有一年的时间找到投资者，否则将被永远遗忘。
 
 
 
@Dynasty1818
They're abusing the appeal of the Golf in the EU. Even a second hand GTI will run you 10-15 grand, because people have the mentality of "it's a Golf so it's a guaranteed reliability and resale later" when in reality they're getting more and more issues. Leaking doors is super common.
 
他们在欧洲滥用高尔夫的影响力，即使是一辆二手GTI也要花费1万到1.5万欧元，因为人们有一种心态：“这是高尔夫，所以它一定可靠且保值”，而实际上它们的问题越来越多。车门漏水非常普遍。
 
 
 
@Mico605
I dont feel sad at all about german manufacturers. They got outplayed by not only the Chinese, but by the American and especially Japanese (which nobody seems to mention, and Toyota is the biggest car manufacturer it the whole world). People who keep an eye on german manufacturers know about all the anti-consumer and anti-competition practices german car manufacturers did behind closed doors to reduce competition over the decades and lets not forget lying and cheating on emissions testing. This downfall didnt come over night, it came over decades of bad decisions and bad practices.
 
我对德国制造商一点也不感到难过。他们不仅被中国人超越，还被美国人，尤其是日本人（似乎没人提到，丰田是世界上最大的汽车制造商）超越。关注德国制造商的人都知道，几十年来，德国汽车制造商在幕后采取了各种反消费者和反竞争的做法来减少竞争，更不用说在排放测试中撒谎和作弊了。这种衰落不是一夜之间发生的，而是几十年来糟糕决策和不良做法的结果。
 
 
 
@christianlibertarian5488
Back in the 1980’s, we went through the same thing with US car brands. Same complaints: overpriced, unreliable, corporate arrogance. But the issue then is the same as VW’s issue now: labor costs too much in the country. It took decades to get costs down in the US, but never fully succeeded. That’s because low cost labor translates exactly into low paid labor. The US industry nearly died. I look for the same thing to happen in Germany.
 
回到1980年代，我们也经历了与美国汽车品牌同样的事情。同样的抱怨：定价过高、不可靠、企业傲慢。但当时的问题与现在大众的问题是一样的：国内劳动力成本过高。美国花了几十年时间降低成本，但从未完全成功。这是因为低成本劳动力直接意味着低工资劳动力。美国汽车工业几乎崩溃。我预计同样的事情会在德国发生。