一个俄罗斯人针对一部颜色革命电影的提问-网帖翻译-龙腾网

It shows how US government and government-sponsored NGOs organize "color revolutions" in several countries. Large part of the film (which does not deal with Russia proper) has been shown on Russian state TV. The film shows quite rare and unexpected footage which shows things I would not expect from a non-staged film.

它展示了美国政府，和其他被美国政府支持的非政府组织，如何在几个国家组织“颜色革命”的内容。这部电影的大部分内容(不涉及俄罗斯本土)已经在俄罗斯国家电视台播出。这部电影展示了非常罕见，和大量让人意想不到的镜头，这些镜头让我明白了一些以前从来不会想到的东西。

The film shows US and pro-US politicians and activists to openly explain their technique at overthrowing the governments and subverting the army. One US expat in Kyrgyzstan openly admits that it was his work to overthrow the government. The organizers of the color revolutions in different countries are shown to attend the same seminars organized by US special services. One episode shows a blackboard with a list of countries where revolutions are planned, with dates.

这部电影展示了美国和亲美的政治家、活动家们公开介绍他们如何推翻其他国家的政府，和颠覆他国军队的技术。一名在吉尔吉斯斯坦的美国侨民，公开承认推翻当地政府是他的日常工作。影片中，不同国家的颜色革命组织者参加了由美国特种部队组织的同一个研讨会。其中一集展示了一块黑板，上面列出了一些即将计划颜色革命的国家的名单和日期。

The film shows quite surprising footage when the color-revolutionary activists from different countries discuss financial matters, divide funds and their spendings, admit loyalty to the United States. In some frxs the leader of the Georgian revolution evidently appears under drugs. I do not know how it became possible to compel somebody to discuss money or appear intoxicated under camera. Still the frxs do not seem to be made covertly.

影片展示了来自不同国家的颜色革命活动人士讨论财政问题、分配资金和支出、承认对美国的忠诚等令人震惊的镜头。在某些画面中，这位格鲁吉亚革命领袖显然是服了什么药物。我不知道怎么回事，但似乎这种药物能强迫一个人哪怕是在镜头下，也能极度兴奋的谈论这些资金。但这些电影画面似乎也并不是秘密制作的画面。

The film shows some events strikingly in-time, not post-factum. For example, It shows the details and mechanics of Kyrgyz revololution in motion, days before it and just after, and preparation to the Ukraininian revolution just two months before it happened, as if the creators of the film knew exactly the time when the revolution is to come, which suggests some prolonged (for years) coordination with perpetrators.

这部电影展现的一些事件消息显得非常及时，而不是事后发生的马后炮。例如，它展示了吉尔吉斯革命发生的前几天和后几天的细节和机制，以及乌克兰革命发生前两个月的准备工作，仿佛电影的创作者确切地知道革命的时间，这表明他们与颜色革命的幕后操作者进行了长时间(至少数年)的合作。

It also shows some politicians in quite surprising situation, for example it shows McCain to abuse the Kyrgyz foreign minister by telephone just before the revolution and shows that minister just after the conversation saying that Kyrgyz people were not ready for democracy. It also shows Georgian president Saakashvili after his speech asking the US intelligence officer whether he said all correct, and an American expat who became a Georgian education minister after the revolution, admitting how much they spent for the revolution to come. In no frx the perpetrators make any obxtions to the shooting despite being shown unpleasantly and harshly accused by the narrator (for example McCain is directly accused in intervening in internal affairs of Kyrgyzstan for the cited call).

它还展示了一些政治人物令人震惊的处境，例如，它展示了麦凯恩在革命前通过电话辱骂吉尔吉斯外交部长，并显示这位部长在谈话结束后说吉尔吉斯人民还没有为民主做好准备。视频还显示，格鲁吉亚总统萨卡什维利在演讲后，问美国情报官员他说的是否正确，以及一位在革命后成为格鲁吉亚教育部长的美国侨民，承认他们为革命的到来花费了多少钱。尽管电影画面令人不快，但在任何画面中都没有人对拍摄过程提出任何异议，甚至还遭到叙述者的严厉指责(例如，麦凯恩因上述电话直接被指责干涉吉尔吉斯斯坦内政)。

Given all the above I wonder how it became possible to make all those people not only agree for an interview but expose themselves in unpleasant situations to a group that is harshly critical of their actions, show them in the course of their real work, before, after and in the process and explain their covert intentions.

考虑到以上所有情况，我想知道到底如何才能让电影里的这些人不仅全都同意接受采访，还愿意将自己暴露在不愉快的处境中，面对一群严厉批评他们行为的人，把他们自己在实际工作过程中，或者在行动过程之前、之后的工作内容，全都主动向他们展示，并坦白他们的秘密工作内容。

I also wonder why I nowhere could find not only an English version but also any reference to this film in English.

我也想知道，为什么我在任何地方都找不到英文版本，甚至也找不到任何关于这部电影的英文参考资料。

Given all the above I would ask
Whether this film is staged and if yes, to what degree?
Whether it is a hoax?
Whether it is somehow fabricated?
Why it is quite unknown?

鉴于以上所述，我想问以下几个问题。
这部电影是否曾经真的上映过，如果是，上映到什么程度？
这是否是一场骗局？
是否是莫名其妙地捏造出来的电影内容？
为什么它现在完全未知？

upxe Some of the context
15:30 Mike Stone from US state-funded organization Freedom House, 10 days before the revolution, shows a typography where they print 6 anti-government newspapers and a book on how to make revolutions "From Dictatorship to the Democracy" (which includes the technique on how to subvert the army). A plaque on the wall indicates "United States Bureau of Democracy". All the equipment shows the labeled that it is property of US government, namely, the mentioned United States Bureau of Democracy. Mike Stone says that he calls the revolutions "green" because of money they are paid with.

因为没有具体的电影，在这里文字更新一些电影的背景知识。
15:30，来自美国国家资助的非政府组织自由之家的迈克·斯通，在革命前10天，展示了他们印刷6份反政府报纸，和一本关于如何进行革命的书《从DC到民主》(其中包括如何颠覆军队的技术)。墙上的一块被挂起来的“牌匾”上写着“美国民主局”。所有的设备都贴有标签，标明是美国政府的财产，也就是上面提到的美国民主局。迈克·斯通还说，他称这场革命为“绿色革命”，因为人们只需要用钱来为革命付出。

22:05 McCaine talks with the Kyrgyz minister by telephone, demanding they lift ban on the cited book on how to make the revolutions, and the minister promises to do so.

22:05，麦卡恩与吉尔吉斯部长通电话，要求他们解除关于如何进行革命的一些书籍的禁令，部长答应会按要求做。

25:30 After the revolution, activist of Kyrgyz revolution admits the help of the USA

25:30，革命成功后，吉尔吉斯斯坦革命活动家主动感谢承认美国的帮助

25:58 Mike Stone says overthrow of regimes is his work

25:58，迈克·斯通说推翻这里的政权是他的工作

28:40 Bob Helvi from Einstein Foundation who also publishes the book tells some advices from the book on how to subvert the army

28:40，来自爱因斯坦基金会的鲍勃·赫尔维也出版了类似的一本书，他在书中讲述了关于如何颠覆军队的一些建议。

53:40 Seminar on how to make revolutions, Ukraine, 2 months before the revolution, organized by McCane and Freedom House

53:40，关于如何发动新革命的研讨会，在乌克兰，革命前2个月，由麦凯恩和自由之家组织。

32:40 - summer camp in Crimea, organized by Freedom House and seminar there.

32:40，自由之家在克里米亚组织的夏令营和研讨会。

35:28 new Miniter of education of Georgia, at the same time, Soros foundation representative. He says Soros foundation spent $300000 for the revolution.

35:28，格鲁吉亚新任教育部长，同时也是索罗斯基金会的代表。他说索罗斯基金会为这场革命花费了30万美元。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

39:00 Meeting between Georgian and Belorussian revolutionaires (Bakeria and Lybedko). Belorussian activist says the USA senate will give them several million dollars. A representative of an unnamed US organization (possibly, Soros foundation) says they will give them 4 million for taking the power.

39:00，格鲁吉亚和白俄罗斯革命者的会面(Bakeria和Lybedko)。一位白俄罗斯活动人士表示，美国参议院将给他们提供数百万美元进行颜色革命。一个不愿透露姓名的美国组织(可能是索罗斯基金会)的代表说，他们将给他们提供400万美元，但他们需要接管革命的权力。

40:08 Bruce Jackson, US intelligence officer in retire, who heads the "Foundation for Transitional Democracies" oversees a speech of Georgian president. The president asks him whether he said all correct.

40:08，布鲁斯杰克逊，退休的美国情报官员，领导“过渡民主基金会”监督格鲁吉亚总统的讲话。总统说完，询问他自己说的是否都正确。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

43:00 Belorussian revolutionary leader Lybedko discusses money in McCaine's International Republican Institute. In this place there is t-shirt with a list of planned revolutions.

43:00，白俄罗斯革命领袖利贝德科在麦凯恩的国际共和研究所讨论自己需要的资金问题。这个地方有一件t恤，上面印着部分革命计划的清单。

45:00 Bruce Jackson's headquarters in Washington. He meets with Georgian revolutionary leader Bakeria (who became advisor of Georgian president after revolution), and with two Russian anti-Putin activists who say they came to learn how to make revolutions. The narrator cites Bruce Jackson to say Russia is the next target for the revolution.

45:00，布鲁斯·杰克逊在华盛顿的总部。他会见了格鲁吉亚革命领袖贝克尔里亚(他在革命后成为格鲁吉亚总统的顾问)，和两名俄罗斯反普京活动人士，他们说，他们来这里是为了学习如何发动革命。叙述者引用布鲁斯·杰克逊的话说，俄罗斯将是颜色革命的下一个目标。
译注：全文完，此人提问到此结束，下面为少数几个人的回复，然后这个帖子就被关闭了，此人后面又开了一个新帖，同样已经关闭，没有多少人回答，少数回复将全都贴在下面。

DVK
What is the proof that those in the movie are in fact the "revolutionaries" and not paid actors or agents provocateur from Russia's side? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. –

你有什么证据能证明电影中的人，实际上是真的“革命者”，而不是俄罗斯单方面寻找的受薪演员或密探？非同寻常的主张，需要非同寻常的证据。

Anixx
@ they are known politicians

他们都是著名的政治家。

Anixx
For example, the film shows Giga Bokeria (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giga_Bokeria) under drugs and to discuss money

例如，影片展示了Giga Bokeria吸毒后讨要资金的画面(en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giga_Bokeria，此人的维基信息名人链接)

Ryathal
its practically a prerequisite for a super power to have people dedicated to covertly manipulating the governments of lesser states to be more friendly to them, the dishonest part would be anything suggesting that this practice was unique to the U.S.

颜色革命实际上是一个国家成为超级大国的先决条件，有专人暗中操纵小国家的政府，让它们对它们更友好，最大的不诚实部分，就是电影在暗示这种做法是美国独有的行为。（它并不是美国独有的行为）

Samuel Russell
Political documentaries are generally not history. They don't use the techniques of history, even of contemporary history, and they aren't based on documentary records of the past; but, rather, gaining access to contemporary records and interviews with practicing figures. Migrate to politics, strip of the "historicity" replace with "facticity."

政治纪录片通常不是真正的历史。他们不使用历史历史，甚至是现代史知识，他们也不引用那些纪录过去的文献记录。而是以获取当代记录，和对实践者的采访来进行拍摄。将主题转移到政治上，剥去“历史性”，代之以“真实性”。

T.E.D.
Interesting, I was not aware of this movie. Is this why various countries (eg: Russia, Egypt) have been going after NGO's lately? It just looked completely nutty to me, but if folks have been watching and believing this movie, it suddenly makes sense.

有意思，我都不知道这部电影。这就是为什么许多国家(如俄罗斯，埃及)最近一直在追捕非政府组织的原因吗？在我之前看来，他们的追捕完全是疯狂的举动，但如果这两个国家的人们一直在看，并相信这部电影，他们的举动突然就说得通了。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

Anixx
@T.E.D. in Russia it was a common sense already when the film was made. Especially after US-inspired revolutions in Georgia and Ukraine. Now, after similar attempts in Russia, Belarus, Kyrgyztan and after US-organized overthrow of Libyan government and rebellion in Syria, it became obvious to everybody, even those who does not watch the TV.

在俄罗斯，这部电影还在拍摄时，对于颜色革命的认知已经是一种常识了。尤其是在格鲁吉亚和乌克兰发生了由美国引发的颜色革命之后。现在，当美国在俄罗斯、白俄罗斯、吉尔吉斯斯坦进行了类似的尝试之后，在美国组织推翻利比亚政府和叙利亚的叛乱之后，这对每个人都是显而易见的常识，甚至是那些不看电视的人。

Anixx
@T.E.D. I have added the lix to the version in French.

我已经把链接换成了法语版了。（链接同样挂了）

Lennart Regebro
This now has an answer on politics.

这一切都在政治上能找到答案。

Thorsten S.
+1: I am really a bit disappointed by the reactions here. The question is about the validity of a movie, not about if you personally like the content of the movie. Do not shoot the messenger !

+1：我对这里的反应真的有点失望。问题是关于一部电影的有效性，而不是你个人是否喜欢这部电影的内容。不要射杀交流的信使！

Erik Schmidt
The original French film is called "Revolution.com - USA: The Conquest of the East".
The first evidence I could find of this film is a 2007 Pravda story with the headline: "USA spends over 100 million dollars on coups in former USSR". Pravda presents the French film as truth, and concludes with this assessment: "The French filmmakers do not say, where exactly on the post-Soviet space the next revolution will occur. They believe, however, that the USA is preparing coups on the entire territory of the former USSR."

法国的原版电影叫《美国革命网络：东方的征服》。
我能找到的这部电影的第一个证据是2007年真理报报道，标题是：“美国在前苏联的政变上花费超过1亿美元”。《真理报》将这部法国电影视为真理，并以这样的评价总结道：“法国电影人没有说，下一场革命将在后苏联时代的什么地方发生。然而，他们认为，美国正在整个前苏联领土上准备政变。”

The Pravda article does not lix to the film, and I could not find an English version anywhere. The filmmakers are not named, nor is their distributor. The film is not lixed to in the Pravda article. However, further searching revealed that the French agency CAPA was involved in making the original film. CAPA reacted strongly to the edited version shown on Russian television, filing a lawsuit against Rossia, a Russian TV network:

《真理报》的文章没有关于这部电影的资源链接，而且我在任何地方都找不到这部电影的英文版本。电影制作人和发行人的名字也全都没有透露出来。《真理报》的文章没有具体提到这部电影。然而，在我进一步调查之后发现，法国经纪公司CAPA参与了原版电影的制作。CAPA对俄罗斯电视台播放的电影剪辑版做出了强烈反应，对俄罗斯电视台Rossia提起了诉讼：

CAPA CEO Herve Chabalier told Agence France Presse that “we intend to initiate a court case against the Russian state channel and its authorized representative MCG Programming Limited.” He said that “We hold that the film was cut by at least six minutes. The film, shot by the Frenchwoman Manon Loizeau (whose name was cut from the Russian version), tells not of an American conspiracy, but of the people who support the democratization of the countries of the former Soviet area.” Chabalier continued that “The Rossia channel intentionally distorted the content to fit its political goals. It was not a coincidence that the documentary film was shown on the same evening as the harsh suppression of an opposition demonstration [the March of Those Who Disagree].”
It would seem there are two versions of the film, and there is a serious difference of opinion as to the veracity of the second version.

CAPA首席执行官Herve Chabalier告诉法新社：“我们打算对俄罗斯国家频道及其授权代表MCG节目有限公司提起诉讼。”他说：“我们认为这部电影至少被删减了6分钟。这部电影由法国的玛侬·卢瓦索夫人(她的名字从俄文版中删去)拍摄，讲述的也不是美国的阴谋，而是支持前苏联地区国家民主化的好人们。”Chabalier继续说：“Rossia频道故意歪曲内容以符合其政治目的。这部纪录片当初在反对派（革命者）举行示威游行遭到严厉镇压的同一天晚上放映，这并非巧合。”
看来这部电影似乎有两个版本，对于第二个版本的真实性存在严重的意见分歧。

Anixx
Indeed, I already mentioned that the Russian TV showed the cut version with the entire part that dealt with Russia proper removed. But the full version is available in the Internet and is lixed from the first post. –

事实上，我已经提到过，俄罗斯电视台播放的剪辑版中，涉及俄罗斯的部分全部被删除。但是完整版可以在网上找到，并且从我的第一个帖子开始就有提供链接。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

Anixx
The removed part also included a Gleb Pavlovsky's interview where he said that pro-Putin "Nashi" movement was created to prevent the color revolution. This interview is quite surprising similarly to the style of rest of the film: Pavlovsky being a pro-Putinist political technologist quite frankly and cynically explains that this pro-Putin party is just a political instrument against the inspired from abroad revolution. This is also strange how they managed to obtain such concessions from him (but after viewing the whole film it does not surprise much).

被删除的部分还包括格列布·帕夫洛夫斯基的采访，他在采访中说，亲普京的“纳什”运动是为了防止颜色革命而发起的。这段采访与电影其他部分的风格相似，令人非常震惊：帕夫洛夫斯基作为一个亲普京的政治技术专家，竟然非常坦率和讽刺地解释说，这个亲普京的政党只是一个反对来自国外颜色革命的政治工具。这也很奇怪，他们是如何设法从他那里获得这种让步般的评论的？(但在大家看完整部电影后，也许就并不会太惊讶了)。