为什么日本的半导体产业失败?
Why Japan's Semiconductor Industry Failed
译文简介
日本曾经是世界上最大的半导体制造国之一。然而，在短短几年内，它将被邻国超越。
正文翻译
Japan was once one of the world's largest semiconductor manufacturing countries. However, in just a few years, it would be surpassed by its neighbors.
日本曾经是世界上最大的半导体制造国之一。然而，在短短几年内，它将被邻国超越。
评论翻译
很赞 ( 9 )
收藏
Why Japan's Semiconductor Industry Failed：US won’t allow Japan to dominate semiconductor industry.
为什么日本的半导体产业失败：因为美国不允许日本主导半导体产业。
I see, Uncle Sam treats friends and foes alike. No discrimination.
原来如此，山姆大叔对待朋友和敌人一视同仁，毫无歧视。
Because of the usa sanctions, because they had a huge potential, that's what china doesn't want from depending on the us/taiwan chips by building their own chip.
因为美国的制裁，日本曾拥有巨大的潜力，这也是中国不愿意依赖美国/台湾（地区）的芯片，选择自己建造芯片的原因。
Japan lost the war to America and is still under their rule.
Of course there were good things, but they were never allowed to surpass America.
日本在战争中败给了美国，至今仍然在美国的统治下。
当然也有好的方面，但他们从未被允许超越美国
Next episode : how America killed German automobile industry
下一集：美国如何扼杀德国汽车产业。
Japan are under occupation but they don’t recognise it.
日本处于占领状态，但他们并没有承认这一点。
You fail to understand that photo reisin used for chip production is solely made in Japan. No one country can manufacture a full working chip on its own
你没理解，制造芯片所用的光刻胶完全是日本生产的。没有任何一个国家能独立制造完整的芯片。
Japan was leading the microchip race in the 1970s before US sanctioned Japan with unfair trade agreements to limit their High Tech products and forcing Japan to build factories in US while charging hefty costs, Toshiba the leader in microchip manufacturing was targeted by US and it's General manager was arrested by to force Tech transfer. Same thing also happened to France in Energy sector. US is now trying to Do the same to China But failed as Chinese government step in and protected local companies which both Japan and the French government cowarded.
在20 世纪 70 年代，日本曾领先于全球的微芯片产业，然而美国通过不公平的贸易协议对日本实施制裁，限制其高科技产品的出口，并迫使日本在美国建厂，同时收取高额费用。作为微芯片制造领导者的东芝（Toshiba）成为了美国的目标，其总经理也因此被逮捕，迫使其进行技术转让。法国在能源领域也经历了类似的情况。现在，美国试图对中国实施同样的做法，但由于中国政府介入并保护了本土公司，美国的计划未能成功。而日本和法国政府在当时都选择了妥协。
I remembered when I was a kid that Japan was like a god as an economic power. Now, Japan could not compete with South Korea.
记得小时候觉得日本是个神一样的经济大国，现在日本根本比不上韩国。
when the master sees his slave starting to try to threaten his position, sanctions immediately come to remind him who the master is
当主人看到他的奴隶开始威胁到自己的地位时，制裁立刻到来，以提醒他谁才是主人。
Asia's people very hardworking
亚洲人民非常勤劳。
I always use NEC desktop PC from Japan because it is cheap and High Quality and it last long even when i am using in a welding shop where electricity is connected to a welding machine running everyday. HP Desktop PC did not last long even though it is more faster and have a bigger power source connected to AVR and UPS. Only NEC has the especial Technology device for Current filter in the power Supply.
我一直使用日本的NEC台式电脑，因为它便宜、质量高，而且非常耐用，即使我在焊接车间使用，每天运行的焊机都接有电源，它也经久耐用。相比之下，HP 台式电脑虽然速度更快，并且有更大的电源连接到 AVR 和 UPS，但使用寿命并不长。只有 NEC 拥有电源中用于电流滤波器的特殊技术设备。
Remember Toshiba in the 80s? The pirate Murika took it from them free of charge...
记得80年代的东芝吗？美国像海盗一样把它从他们那里夺走了，还是免费夺走的...
Japan should rise up again. I think one of their problem is lack of young manpower and they're stuck with old people running everything. With todays standards, old ways doesn't always equals good. Most of the time we need to start from the ground up to make something new.
日本应该重新崛起。我认为他们的问题之一是缺乏年轻的劳动力，很多事情仍由年长的人来掌控。以今天的标准，老旧的方式不总是等于好。大多数时候，我们需要从头开始，创造一些新的东西。
America never learned and did the same thing with china
美国从未吸取教训，又对中国做了同样的事情。
CMOS technology transfer to US also one of the reason Japan's set back. US developed further CMOS technology and was helpful for its processor development. This was eventually captured all the chip market in the world. Japan did not put much efforts on designing CPU for computer and also its software.
CMOS技术的转让给美国也是日本衰退的原因之一。美国进一步发展了CMOS技术，这对其处理器的发展起到了帮助。最终这导致了全球芯片市场的占领。日本没有在设计计算机CPU和软件方面投入足够的努力。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
To protect USA market decided to tariff speaking freedom market
为了保护美国市场，决定对言论自由市场加征关税。
Because USA want Japan to fail.
因为美国希望日本失败。
As a young hobbyist, I attempted to get into Renesas MCUs and attended a "training course". Their tools were subpar to Freescale, more expensive and trainers had a bit of an uptight attitude. Then Arduino and ARM came, kicking everyone's ass.
作为一个年轻的爱好者，我曾尝试接触瑞萨的MCU，并参加了一个“培训课程”。他们的工具比Freescale差，价格更贵，而且培训师的态度有点拘谨。后来，Arduino和ARM出现了，让所有人都大吃一惊。
It really depends on what kind of chips we are talking about. There some of them where japan still holds the keys. It is not always about US. In some of the areas Japanese companies didn’t put an effort into R&D in that field.
这实际上取决于我们讨论的是什么类型的芯片。在某些领域，日本仍然掌握着关键技术。并非所有事情都与美国有关。在一些领域，日本公司没有在研发上投入足够的努力。
Because America don’t want to be embarrassed on every aspect of development
因为美国不想在各个发展方面都被羞辱。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
US was not specifically pinpointed Japan, it has pinpointed any country that comes close to challenge his supremecy. This is human nature, and thats why human never stop fighting each others.
美国并非专门针对日本，它针对的是任何有可能挑战其霸主地位的国家。这是人性所在，也正因为如此，人类从未停止过相互斗争。
Japan and South Korea produce low-tech, mass-produced storage semiconductors, while Taiwan produces customized logic semiconductors, which are entirely different semiconductors from memory.
After Japan withdrew from memory production, South Korea took over. This has nothing to do with Taiwan.
Japan is a big country in storage semiconductors and does not produce logic semiconductors.
After Intel lost memory chips to Japan, it switched to producing CPU logic semiconductors, making Intel the dominant player.
日本和韩国生产低技术、大规模生产的存储半导体，而台湾（地区）则生产定制化的逻辑半导体，这些与存储器是完全不同的半导体。
在日本退出存储器生产后，韩国接手了。这与台湾（地区）无关。
日本在存储半导体方面是大国，但不生产逻辑半导体。
在英特尔失去存储芯片的市场份额后，转而生产CPU逻辑半导体，这使得英特尔成为了主导者。
Rapidus would've been nice to note by the end. I'm continuing to watch their progress
如果最后提到Rapidus就更好了，我会继续关注他们的进展。
Friedship with USA will give you a lot of money but you will never get their technology. The Russians atleast give critical technologies to their allies like nucler reactor, rocket technology, jet engine and ship building tech. Better getting that from uncle sam
和美国建立友谊可以赚很多钱，但你永远得不到他们的技术。俄罗斯至少向他们的盟友提供了关键技术，比如核反应堆、火箭技术、喷气发动机和造船技术。最好还是从“山姆大叔”那里得到这些。
the answer is pretty simple. The US foiled japan's success. the US put too many limitation over japan.
答案其实很简单。美国破坏了日本的成功。美国对日本施加了太多限制。
Is that what the tokyo plaza accord does? Along with the lost decades too.
这就是东京广场协议的作用吗？还有“失去的十年”也是如此吗？
Most semiconductors manufactured in Asia rely on Japanese semiconductor equipment, technology, and materials. In fact, companies like TSMC and Samsung wouldn’t exist without Japan’s contributions.
大多数在亚洲制造的半导体依赖日本的半导体设备、技术和材料。事实上，没有日本的贡献，像台积电和三星这样的公司根本无法存在。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Look, if other countries want to succeed in semiconductors, they need to fund R&D. Most of the chip companies overseas are beholden to the US gov because all the tech were pioneered and patented in the USA. Risk in R&D is encouraged in America.
看，如果其他国家想在半导体领域取得成功，他们需要资助研发。大多数海外芯片公司都依赖美国政府，因为所有技术都是在美国率先开发和专利的。美国鼓励研发风险。
The free market never existed, just a ruse by the Anglo empire to seem more equitable
自由市场从未存在过，只是盎格鲁帝国为了让自己看起来更公平而耍的一个花招
This question is too simple! Because of the suppression by the United States! But Japan has made achievements in the field of semiconductor equipment!
这个问题太简单了！因为受到美国的打压！但日本在半导体设备领域已经取得了成就！
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Japan still makes a lot of the equipment used to make microchips as well as having related techs like lens
日本仍然生产很多用于制造微芯片的设备，并且拥有相关技术，比如镜头。
Hundreds years ago, China already trade with South East Asia.
But only trade, even China is powerful.
When European came, they colonies right away.
几百年前，中国就已经与东南亚进行贸易了。
但只是贸易，即使中国也很强大。
当欧洲人到来后，他们立即建立了殖民地。
The G7 meet regularly to devide world's manufacturing sectors.
In one of this meetings Japan made a deal which included the phasing out of its chip industry.
七国集团定期召开会议，划分世界的制造业领域。
在其中一次会议上，日本达成了一项协议，其中包括逐步淘汰其芯片产业。
Short Answer: USA
Long Answer: United States of America
简短回答：美国
长回答：美利坚合众国
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Sony was NOT the first to produce a transistor radio. Not even the 30th. Regency offered the first in 1954, followed by EVERY major maker in 1955 and off-brands in 1956.
索尼并不是第一个生产晶体管收音机的公司，甚至连第30个都不是。Regency在1954年推出了第一款晶体管收音机，随后所有主要厂商在1955年纷纷推出，而一些小品牌则在1956年推出。
0:48 this is EXACTLY how korean semiconductor industry started.
also EXACTLY how China started.
0:48 这正是韩国半导体产业起步的方式。
也是中国起步的方式。
Sad japan isn't part of BRICS....very very sad situation being occupied by USA...
可悲的是，日本没有加入金砖国家……被美国占领，这真是令人悲哀......
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
All Japan produced chips, then were US licensed ICs.
日本生产的所有芯片，后来都是美国授权的集成电路（IC）。
Problem is, when in 1980 they reached the top - in terms of memories and commercial ICs, they begun competing with the US. This is what doomed them later on, when they couldn't advance the technology all by themselves. The Japanese should have kept a cooperative and collaborative approach with the US since the beginning.
问题是，1980年他们在内存和商业IC领域达到巅峰时，他们开始与美国竞争。正是这一点导致了他们后来的失败，因为他们无法独立推动技术进步。日本应该从一开始就保持与美国的合作与协作态度。
If America is due this to the allies imagine what they do to the enemies
如果美国对盟友这样做，想想他们对敌人会做什么。
The answer is a very simple three letter word: USA
答案是一个非常简单的三个字母：USA
Blame Moore's law. When the 8088 and 8086 were the main microprossors a lot of memory chips were needed. As the number of transistors increased you needed less and less memory chips and the microprocessor itself became the main product. The 8086 based microprocessors are still in use even if internally they are nothing like the original 8086, they can still run old applications. Japan was never going to develop its own microprocessor that would take over the whole industry like the 8086 did.
这都要怪摩尔定律。当8088和8086是主要微处理器时，很多内存芯片是必需的。随着晶体管数量的增加，需要的内存芯片越来越少，微处理器本身成了主要产品。基于8086的微处理器至今仍在使用，即使内部结构与最初的8086完全不同，它们仍然可以运行旧应用程序。日本永远不会像 8086 那样开发自己的微处理器来接管整个行业。
Don’t forget that without Japanese chip suppliers semiconductor industry would crumble. Will also be interesting to see where the Rapidus project is going….
别忘了，如果没有日本的芯片供应商，半导体产业会崩溃。还很有意思的是，看看Rapidus项目会走向何方……
the most problem of japanese game consoles were reluctance of releasing middleware engines
some game consoles in mid 90's are notoriously hard to make games on it
日本游戏机最大的问题是它们不愿意发布中间件引擎。
90 年代中期的一些游戏机以难以制作游戏而闻名
China will not be the second Japan that bent the knee to the USA. It will face hardships now and will become the leading economy in the world in terms of technology. *** had a choice when Trump started the trade war. Either bent the knee and always be number 2 or face hardships now and bear the fruits later.
中国不会成为第二个像日本那样屈服于美国的国家。现在它会面临困难，但将来会成为世界上在技术方面领先的经济体。特朗普发动贸易战时，中国有个选择：要么屈服，永远做老二，要么现在面临困难，以后承担后果。
One of the reasons Japan came to dominate DRAM production was because the US companies that did it in the 1970s wanted to focus on higher margin parts like CPUs. Intel was once a major DRAM producer but gave it up due to the low margins. It suited the purposes of companies like Intel to let existing and rising Asian producers have the market for those products. They didn't particularly care if a foreign power monopolized vital portions of a modern computer so long as the lion's share of the profits were going to Intel. The US government didn't see it that way.
日本之所以在DRAM（动态随机存取存储器）生产中占据主导地位，部分原因是1970年代的美国公司希望将精力集中在利润更高的部件上，比如中央处理器（CPU）。英特尔曾是主要的DRAM生产商，但由于利润较低，它最终放弃了这一业务。对于像英特尔这样的公司来说，让现有的亚洲厂商以及新兴厂商占据这类产品市场是符合他们利益的。只要大部分利润流向英特尔，他们并不特别在意一个外国势力垄断了现代计算机的关键部分。然而，美国政府并不这么看待这一问题。
The whole Japan Inc. is struggling three decades in the row. Inability to evolve, to modernize and innovate took them where they are – stagnation without an end.
整个日本企业体已经连续三十年在挣扎。无法进化、现代化和创新，导致他们陷入了无休止的停滞状态。
The licensed the technology to manufacture it, but they didn't have the homegrown knowledge to make a new generations of chips.
他们确实获得了制造技术的许可，但缺乏本土的知识来制造新一代的芯片。
Isn't Japan dominating in the analog chip market? For example, many power amplifier manufacturers use output transistors from Toshiba, Sanken, etc.
日本不是在模拟芯片市场占据主导地位吗？例如，许多功率放大器制造商使用的是来自东芝、三肯等公司的输出晶体管。
It's called no one company can monopolize one industry
这叫做没有任何一家公司能垄断一个行业。
Just like the current China, Japan has been suppressed by the US especially Toshiba lead semiconductor technology
就像现在的中国一样，日本曾经也被美国压制，尤其是在东芝主导的半导体技术方面。
Japan focused on manufacturing ignoring the software/CAD tools role in semiconductor design productivity.
日本专注于制造，忽视了软件/CAD工具在半导体设计生产力中的作用。
Thats what you get by becomeing american lapdog.
Samurai culture, NOT shogun culture.
这就是成为美国走狗的结果。武士文化，而不是幕府文化。
Let me guess, they didn't talk about plaza Accord and forced patent transfers from Japan to the US.
让我猜猜，他们没有提到广场协议和强迫日本向美国转让专利的事情吧。
Japan has failed conclusively and lost everything in 1945. This is the only thing you need to know.
日本在1945年彻底失败，失去了所有。这是你需要知道的唯一事实。
It’s odd that the video game sector didnt create more opportunities, when you think Nintendo, Sega and Sony all came from Japan.
奇怪的是，当你想到任天堂、世嘉和索尼都来自日本时，视频游戏行业并没有创造更多的机会。
Japan's failure in chip technology and other techniques is due to the conservatism of the Japanese.
日本在芯片技术和其他技术上的失败，归因于日本的保守主义。
TR-55 radio is collectable now. Anyone has a good working one now is worth thousands of dollars.
TR-55 收音机现在很值得收藏。现在任何人拥有一台能正常使用的收音机都价值数千美元。
This has been a habit of U.S if a country surpass them (it could be technology,economy, innovation etc) And if that country wont have a good deal (sometimes the deal could best favor in their part) with them the'll accuse and somehow impose restriction,penalty, tariffs and alike.
这是美国的一个习惯，如果一个国家超越了他们（无论是技术、经济、创新等方面），而且这个国家没有与他们达成一个好的协议（有时协议对他们有利），他们就会指责并以某种方式实施限制、处罚、关税等。
Never, ever bet against Japanese technology and call them a failure.
Never!
永远不要看衰日本的技术并称其为失败。永远不要！
Japanese products were for life time, now any product we buy last 5 years
日本的产品曾经是终身使用的，现在我们买的任何产品都只能用五年。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I saw toshiba, Sony laptops. Where are they now ?
我曾经看到过东芝、索尼的笔记本电脑。它们现在在哪里？
It’s such a shame, because Japanese quality was second to none, and I have always preferred Japanese products.
I remember buying 3.5” floppies from Japan and from Taiwan. The Japanese were quieter did not give errors far superior to the Taiwanese.
这真是太可惜了，因为日本的质量是首屈一指的，而且我一直更喜欢日本产品。
我记得我曾从日本和台湾（地区）购买过 3.5 英寸软盘。日本的软盘更安静，几乎没有错误，远远优于台湾（地区）的。
Japan stuck in the 80s, their 80s was 100years more advanced than our 80s.
Taiwan took the crown for Semi conductors manufacturing
日本仍然停留在80年代，他们的80年代比我们的80年代先进100年。
台湾（地区）已经夺回了半导体制造的王冠。
However there is a military cooperation.
不过，还是有军事合作。
United States: promotes the free and competitive market and economy. (Tiny footnote: unless we loose in that competition)
美国：提倡自由和竞争的市场经济。（小注：除非我们在竞争中失败）
Just by looking at the comments section, you can see why Japan is ruined. There is no improvement to be as proud of as a man. Korea overtook Japan in a much worse situation
光是看评论区，你就能明白为什么日本已经衰落。没有什么可以自豪的进步，韩国在更糟糕的情况下超越了日本。
suppression and not only in japan, see olivetii in italy.
压制不仅仅发生在日本，看看意大利的Olivetti吧。
Much to the dismay of Intel, which found out too late vertical integration model do not work. Curiously, the Chinese, with their supply chain strategy, seem to be winning...
这英特尔沮丧的是，他们发现垂直整合模式行不通，但为时已晚。奇怪的是，中国凭借他们的供应链战略似乎正在获胜...
Because semiconductors got way too complex and no longer can one country can produce a modern semiconducting microchip, it's basically globalism incarnate with all the exotic materials and licensed tech needed from around the world. To incredibly simplify it, Taiwan does lithography, the US does R&D and the actual chip specs and designs, europe designs and makes the machinery that actually does the lithography, plus you need materials from every corner of the globe and then you need to highly refine those materials. Japan did eek out a role in the globalist chip industry and refines some of those materials, in fact they're the only place refineries for some of these materials exist.
由于半导体变得异常复杂，如今已经没有一个国家能够单独生产现代半导体微芯片，它基本上体现了全球化的本质，因为制造现代芯片需要来自世界各地的各种稀有材料和授权技术。简单来说，台湾（地区）负责光刻技术，美国做研发和实际的芯片规格与设计，欧洲设计并制造实际执行光刻的设备，而且你还需要来自全球各地的材料，并且还需要对这些材料进行高度精炼。日本在全球半导体产业中也占有一席之地，精炼其中一些材料，事实上，它们是唯一拥有某些材料精炼厂的地方。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Kinda ironic because if not for those sanctions Toshiba would actually make SSDs by now at least their HDD is still doing good surprizingly even tho Intel DOES make SATA 3 SSD which is very slow for todays standards their storage size is not that good
有点讽刺，如果没有那些制裁，东芝现在至少能做固态硬盘（SSD），不过他们的硬盘驱动器（HDD）还是做得不错，令人惊讶的是，尽管英特尔确实做SATA 3 SSD，但它对于今天的标准来说非常慢，存储容量也不大。
Japan have to setup manufacturing units at India, for better trade.
为了更好地开展贸易，日本必须在印度设立制造单位。
Because Japanese investors would rather invest into Taiwan and China the last 2 decades.
Now the tide is very different.
因为日本投资者在过去二十年更愿意投资台湾（地区）和中国。现在局势已经发生了变化。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Japan is a country very slow for changing and development! Things and minds delay a long time to change and improove!
日本是一个发展和变化非常缓慢的国家！事情和思想需要很长时间才能改变和进步！
Main reason was not USA. Main reason was Japanese culture. They are not flexible. They always stick to the old way. If They had innovated continuously, They could overcome USA's hindrance.
主要原因不是美国。主要原因是日本文化。他们不够灵活，总是坚持旧有的方式。如果他们能够持续创新，他们完全可以克服美国的阻碍。
I hate sony, never give you everything at once. Always need to buy everything seperately and with expensive prices.
我讨厌索尼，他们总是不把所有东西一次性给你。总是需要单独购买，而且价格还贵。
The US was in a trade war with Japan in the 1980s and wanted to protect its own industries. It wasn't just in chip manufacturing either as the headlines were mostly centered on the "unfair" Japanese auto exports that hurt American automakers. So Japan was forced to sign the Plaza Accords and overinflate the yen relative to the dollar, which made its exports expensive and uncompetitive.
20 世纪 80 年代，美国与日本爆发了贸易战，希望保护自己的产业。这不仅仅是在芯片制造领域，新闻头条大多集中在日本“不公平”的汽车出口损害美国汽车制造商的利益上。所以，日本被迫签署《广场协议》，使日元相对于美元过度升值，导致其出口变得昂贵且失去竞争力。
Summary : usa, because afraid that japan has surpassed them
They now doing same to China
总结：美国，因为害怕日本超过他们，他们现在对中国也做同样的事情