如果德国的教育是免费的，那么为什么不是每个人都去那里学习呢?（下）
If education in Germany is free and good, then why doesn't everybody go there to study?
译文简介
网友：关于人们如何体验德国提供的“免费”教育，许多回答中存在矛盾心理，这让我很着迷。许多作者对于不必为讲座和学位支付费用的机会表示赞赏。但在其他人的回答中，却有一种失望的基调，即“免费”并不涵盖在德国的整体体验……
正文翻译
If education in Germany is free and good, then why doesn't everybody go there to study?
如果德国的教育是免费的，那么为什么不是每个人都去那里学习呢?
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
如果德国的教育是免费的，那么为什么不是每个人都去那里学习呢?
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
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If education in Germany is free and good, then why doesn't everybody go there to study ?
I am fascinated by the ambivalence in many of the answers in how Germany‘s offer of „free“ education is experienced. Many writers appreciate the opportunity of not having to pay for their lectures and degrees. But there is an undertone of disappointment among others that „free“ does not apply to the whole experience of being in Germany.
It might be helpful to talk about expectations for someone considering coming to Germany to study, as a number of writers see a mismatch between the promise of „free“ education and the cultural assumptions about how study and work in Germany are understood.
如果德国的教育既免费又优质，那么为什么不是每个人都选择去那里学习呢？
关于人们如何体验德国提供的“免费”教育，许多回答中存在矛盾心理，这让我很着迷。许多作者对于不必为讲座和学位支付费用的机会表示赞赏。但在其他人的回答中，却有一种失望的基调，即“免费”并不涵盖在德国的整体体验。
对于考虑来德国学习的人来说，讨论一下他们的期望可能是有帮助的，因为许多作者认为“免费”教育的承诺与对德国学习和工作方式的文化理解之间存在差异。
To succeed here takes commitment, focus and discipline. While education is virtually free, life is most definitely not. When you come to Germany, you are invited to participate in the opportunities that its vibrant educational-research-industrial complex brings with it, but the basic expectation is that you are going to have to prove yourself on many levels to take advantage of it.
Learning German is one of the commitments one has to make to partake in the opportunities. When I came to Germany with a scholarship, I read grammar books in my spare time, and taught English as a second language on the side to earn money to pay for my life. If, to take one example, you are studying in a technology field, there is a vast need for programming and design through which one can earn a basic income. The opportunies exist, but one must be willing to take them.
德国拥有竞争激烈且以成绩为主导的文化。我们的文化受到韦伯新教职业道德的影响，我们工作是为了改善我们的集体福祉，而不仅仅是为了个人利益。
在这里取得成功需要承诺、专注和自律。虽然教育几乎免费，但生活费用绝对不是免费的。当你来到德国，你会有机会参与到这个国家繁荣的教育、研究和工业体系所带来的机遇之中，但基本的期望是你将在许多方面证明自己，以便能够充分利用这些机遇。
掌握德语是抓住机遇所必须做出的一项承诺。当我获得奖学金来到德国时，我会在空闲时间阅读语法书籍，并且兼职教授英语以赚取生活费用。以一个例子来说，如果你在技术领域学习，编程和设计方面有很大的需求，你可以通过这些途径赚取基本的收入来满足它。机会是有的，但你必须愿意去把握它们。
在德国，免费提供教育的政治共识与其说是一个福利国家的共识，它让公民和客人不必为生存而努力，不如说是一个竞争社会的共识，它对投资我们的未来有现实的认识，并提供公众支持以增加成功的机会。
我们明白，如果我们不向每个人提供教育机会，我们就会失去重要的人才，而且通过在他们职业生涯的开始就给学生带来沉重的债务负担，对社会没有任何好处，因为这些钱导致他们无法投资于住房、汽车或他人谋生的娱乐。但要清楚，我们提供的不是福利。我们非常期望我们培养的人在他们的生活中取得成功，这样他们就可以纳税并帮助资助下一代学生、资助那些为他们的教育付费的人的退休生活。至少，我们希望那些返回自己国家的人已经与德国的政府和企业建立了良好的联系，并将与我们共同努力，与他们的国家建立联系。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
For foreigners, we provide the same conditions for education as for Germans, but social support is understandably limited to scholarships, as public support for basic life needs is sustainable only within the borders in which the taxes are payed to finance it, and we cannot afford to finance the cost of living for a global population of students while they are here. Germany can offer education, but not welfare to all.
对于德国人来说，接受教育的权利是由公共资金支持的。如果你不能通过家庭资源或学生工作来支持自己，有许多支持项目可以确保你有机会接受教育。
对于外国学生，我们提供与德国学生相同的教育条件，但社会支持主要限于奖学金形式。这是因为基本生活需求的公共援助只能在税收所覆盖的国界内维持，我们没有能力为全球学生群体在这里的生活费用提供资金支持。德国可以为学生提供教育机会，但无法为所有人提供福利援助。
如果能接受这些条件，那么在德国学习将是一段极好的体验。对于那些无力负担日常生活费用的学生，有奖学金可以申请，特别是对于那些表现优异的学生。而那些期待获得一般性公共生活支持的人可能会感到失望。这确实令人遗憾，因为这意味着许多有才能的人可能因此无法充分发挥其潜力。但这也是我们目前力所不能及的问题。
Excellent answer! Collective well-being can be a difficult concept for some foreigners though.
精彩的回答！不过，集体福祉这个概念对于一些外国人来说可能难以理解。
I agree. I think it is the attitude that is Germany‘s greatest asset. So many of today’s problems are (relatively) easy to understand and to deal with when one takes a whole society, whole systems view of things, and thinks long-term over several generations.
我同意。我认为德国最宝贵的财富是其国民的态度。当我们从整个社会、整个系统的视角来看待问题，并跨越几代人进行长远思考时，相对而言，许多当今的问题就容易理解并处理了。
“Germany is a competitive, capitalist and meritocratic culture”
Its a social democracy. If it wasnt, you would be paying ~$40,000 for a small healthcare operation and get in $100,000 student loan debt and so on.
德国是一个充满竞争、资本主义和精英统治的文化
德国是一个社会民主国家。如果不是这样，你可能需要为一次小型医疗手术支付约40,000美元，并且背负100,000美元的学生贷款债务等等。
Of course we are capitalist. We have industry and other capital that enables this huge productuvity and wealth-creation. Germany is No Cambodia under the Khmer rouge. (The only real non-capitalist country in the last 150 years I heard about. As they destroyed all capital. Even North-Korea is capitalist - just state-monopoly capitalism, which is the worst form ofcapitalism in existence.) Germany is also mainly a free-market-economy. People/companies can buy what they want and sell what they want at prices agreed with the resp. trading partner. Which is the defintion of capitalism by most economic-textbooks in the US. Our German Social-democrats are NOT anti-capitalist in practice and only to some extent in theory.
我们当然是资本主义国家。我们拥有推动巨大生产力和财富创造的工业和其他资本。德国不是红色高棉统治下的柬埔寨。（在过去150年里我听说过的唯一一个真正的非资本主义国家。因为他们摧毁了所有资本。即使是朝鲜也是资本主义的——只是国家垄断资本主义，这是现存最糟糕的资本主义形式。）德国也是一个主要的自由市场经济体。人们/公司可以按与交易伙伴商定的价格购买他们想要的东西，出售他们想要的东西。这在大多数美国经济教科书中被定义为资本主义。我们的德国社会民主党在实践中并不是反资本主义的，理论上也只是在一定程度上反资本主义。
Thanks for the correction. I defer to your comment and have removed the term.
感谢指正。我接受你的评论并已删除该术语。
Why do you need student loan while the school is free ?
如果学校是免费的，你为什么还需要学生贷款呢？
To pay for living expenses so that you don‘t have to work part-time and can spend you entire time studying. One should be able to live—frugally—on about €1000,-/month, depending where you are.
用来支付生活费用，这样你就不用兼职工作，可以全身心投入学习。一个人应该能够在大约每月1000欧元的预算下生活——这取决于你所在的地区。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Beautifully explained !
解释得非常清楚！
“Our culture is informed by Weber’s Protestant work ethic and by the understanding that we work to improve our collective well-being, and not just for personal advantage.”
Well said!
“我们的文化受到韦伯的新教工作伦理的影响，我们工作是为了提高我们的集体福祉，而不仅仅是为了个人利益。”
说得好！
Everything is true, apart from the part that in other countries, you would end up with a huge dept. My daughter is German but spent her last years of high school in the US. For this, she receives an in-state tuition but what is important, all of her schoolmates with good grades pay virtually nothing for their higher education. Both private and state universities compete for their attention, and give them extremely high scholarships.
除了一点之外，其他说的都是事实：在其他国家，你不会背负巨额债务。我的女儿是德国人，但她在美国完成了她高中的最后几年。因此，她享受州内学生的学费待遇，但更重要的是，所有成绩优异的同学几乎不需要为他们自己的高等教育支付费用。无论是私立还是州立大学都在争相吸引他们的注意，并为他们提供高额的奖学金。
此外，他们还从像"光明的未来（Bright Futures）"这样的州基金中获得资金。所以，如果你至少属于班级中表现较好的一半，你几乎不用为高等教育支付任何费用。我一直以为这只是顶尖学生的情况，但事实并非如此。如果你在学校不专心，要么你的父母有钱，要么你就得贷款，但这是公平的。因此，资金直接分配给那些为国家创造未来的人，也包括来自真正贫困国家的留学生。
在德国，纳税人承担了一切，但三分之一的学生因为不参加考试而不得不离开，这实际上是一团糟。再加上糟糕的服务、拥挤的讲堂等。当然，那5%非常聪明和非常有动力的人总是能成功，但不知何故，如此多的潜力被浪费了。
Good to hear about the options in the U.S. Since writing this few years ago, the German education system has rapidly deteriorated, making what you describe in the U.S. sound attractive.
很高兴听到美国的选择。自从几年前写这篇文章以来，德国的教育体系迅速恶化，使得你描述的美国的教育情况听起来很有吸引力。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
It's interesting to notice that the US has the same Protestant work ethic and meritocratic spirit as the Germanic European countries and the other Anglo-Saxon countries (Canada, Australia and New Zealand) but didn't manage to have neither public fund education nor universal health care.
有趣的是，美国与日耳曼欧洲国家和其他盎格鲁-撒克逊国家（加拿大、澳大利亚和新西兰）一样，拥有相同的新教工作伦理和精英精神，但却没有实现公共基金教育或全民医疗保健。
If education in Germany is free and good, then why doesn't everybody go there to study ?
First of all, language barrier is one of the most prominent factors. Secondly, despite the fact that the German Universities are of high quality, most of them still cannot enter Top-100. That list is still dominated by the US and UK universities.
Third reason is the lack of international environment in most universities.
And finally, racism. I had a friend with a brown skin who literally hated his 3 years of study in Dresden. People used to flip fingers to him on the street, yell racial slurs etc.
如果德国的教育是免费且优质的，那么为什么不是每个人都去那里学习呢？
首先，语言障碍是最突出的因素之一。其次，尽管德国大学质量很高，但它们中的大多数学校仍然无法进入前100名。那个名单仍然由美国和英国大学主导。
第三个原因是大多数大学缺乏国际环境。
最后，种族主义。我有一个朋友皮肤较黑，他真的讨厌他在德累斯顿的那3年学习生活。在街上人们对他竖中指，大喊种族歧视的口号等等。
If education in Germany is free and good, then why doesn't everybody go there to study ?
The biggest hurdle for foreign students appear to be the language requirement. Very few non-German students speak German or desire to speak the primary language of instruction. In my estimation German Universities are slow to add non-German instruction (primarily courses taught in English). There is little benefit to them to attract more non-German students as the vast majority of them are non-profit institutions who rely mostly on taxpayer funding.
如果德国的教育既免费又优质，那么为什么不是每个人都选择去那里学习呢？
对外国学生来说，最大的障碍似乎是语言要求。很少有非德国学生说德语，或者希望以德语作为主要的教学语言。据我估计，德国大学在增加非德语授课（主要是英语授课的课程）方面进展缓慢。对于它们来说，吸引更多非德国学生并没有太多好处，因为它们大多是非营利机构，主要依赖于纳税人的资金。
If education in Germany is free and good, then why doesn't everybody go there to study ?
Nothing is really free, you basically already pay for it through other expenses. In the Netherlands, tuition is €2000 per year. Let us compare by using this as an anchor.
Suppose that the average amount of expenses is around €800. In Germany this should be slightly more due to higher rents, TV tax, higher insurance costs, etc. so let us say €900. Also the tuition in Germany is not exactly free, you pay around €150 for thestudent unx and public transport. Also you can often pay around €200 for extended public transportation. This is per semester, so brings us to €700 per year.
如果德国的教育既免费又优质，那么为什么不是每个人都去那里学习呢？
实际上没有什么是真正免费的，你基本上是通过其他费用已经支付了。在荷兰，学费每年大约是2000欧元。我们以这个数字作为基准来比较。
假设平均开销大约是800欧元。在德国，由于租金更高、电视税、保险费用更高等因素，这个数字应该稍高一些，我们姑且估计为900欧元。此外，德国的学费并非完全免费，你需要支付大约150欧元给学生会和公共交通。有时你还需要支付大约200欧元用于扩展公共交通服务。这是每学期的费用，所以每年总共是700欧元。
Germany likes to market their universities as free since it will attract students, but if you know something about marketing then you know that ‘free’ is never really free, you will pay for it somehow anyway.
现在，如果你在这两个国家学习一年，你的总开销会是多少？在荷兰是12 * 800 + 2000 = 11600欧元，而在德国是12 * 900 + 700 = 11500欧元。换句话说，几乎没有什么差别。当然，这些数字可能并不精确，但我试图表达的是，你的总开销应该不会有太大差异。
德国喜欢将他们的大学宣传为免费，因为这能够吸引学生，但如果你了解市场营销，你就会知道“免费”实际上并不是真的免费，你总会以某种方式为此付出代价。
然而，必须指出的是，德国的教育费用确实比英国或美国要低，在英国或美国，单是学费就可能超过在德国一年的总费用。荷兰的2000欧元学费只适用于欧盟公民，对于其他人来说是10000欧元，德国则没有这样的区别。
除了费用问题，还有一些其他因素可能会影响人们选择不去德国学习。一是语言问题，许多非德国人德语水平并不会达到C1水平。第二，大多数大学只有德语授课的本科课程，很多甚至只有德语授课的硕士课程。再者，一些大学设有名额限制，限制了可以加入该课程的学生数量。这样一来，即使人们想申请德国大学，他们可能常常发现自己失望，因为根本没有足够的学位。