如果有些中国人能够流利地说英语,那么一些西方人是否也有可能流利地说普通话?
If it is technically possible for some Chinese to speak English fluently, is it possible that some Westerners would be able to speak Mandarin fluently?译文简介
网友:是的,为什么不呢?我在研究生期间曾读过一个关于语言习得的案例研究。案例涉及一对双胞胎,母亲是德国人,父亲是美国人。母亲只用德语与孩子们交流,父亲只用英语交流。最初,他们说的是两种语言的混合。但随着年龄的增长,他们开始区分这两种语言,并且变得能流利地使用两种语言。
正文翻译
图
评论翻译
很赞 ( 5 )
收藏
Yes, why wouldn’t it be? When I was in graduate school, I had to read a case study about language acquisition. The case involved a set of twins where the mother was from Germany and the father was an American. The mother would speak to the children only in German and the father would speak to them only in English. Initially, they spoke a mix of the two languages. But as they grew older, they began to separate the two languages and became fluent in both.
是的,为什么不呢?我在研究生期间曾读过一个关于语言习得的案例研究。案例涉及一对双胞胎,母亲是德国人,父亲是美国人。母亲只用德语与孩子们交流,父亲只用英语交流。最初,他们说的是两种语言的混合。但随着年龄的增长,他们开始区分这两种语言,并且变得能流利地使用两种语言。
然而,如果你谈论的是成年人试图学习普通话或英语作为第二语言的情况,达到流利可能会更加困难。尽管如此,只要有足够的学习、练习和机会完全沉浸在目标语言中,从技术上讲达到流利是可能的。
Why not?
At age 18, linguistically an adult, I was fluent only in my native American English. Then I moved to Israel. That was 56 years ago, and in all that time I have never lived in an English speaking neighborhood. I can think in Hebrew quite effortlessly. It is not a problem. I grew up speaking an Indo-European language and I live my daily life in a Semitic language. Why couldn’t I have learned some form of Chinese if that had been what my circumstances required? And why wouldn’t that work in the other direction?
为什么不呢?在18岁时,我在语言上已经成年,但只会流利使用我的母语美式英语。然后我搬到了以色列。这已经是56年前的事了,在那段时间里,我从未住在说英语的社区里。我可以毫不费力地用希伯来语思考。这没有问题。我从小讲印欧语言,现在我的日常生活是在闪米特语言中度过的。如果我的环境需要我学习某种形式的中文,我为什么不能学会呢?为什么反过来就不行呢?
当然,我说的是带美式口音的希伯来语。那又怎样? 当你作为一个成年人学习一门语言时,大多数情况下语音是不完美的。但只要你不是在伪装自己,这有什么关系呢?
Yes you can. You looking for scholar who know some foreign liaison and embassy grade Mandarin who citizen of States?
You can and apply borrowed Latin phonics and language to learn translated Chinese reading and also oral speech. What end, and you can type and compile Chinese now based on mandarin spelling standard. That they don’t language this way, you keep typing pinyin and expecting this equivalent to written Chinese based on computer compiler. They will grant some officiation but most nearly pidgin use on telecom internet
是的,你可以做到。你在寻找懂得一些外事和大使级汉语的美国公民学者吗?你可以应用借用的拉丁字母音标和语言来学习翻译的中文阅读和口语。最终,你现在可以基于汉语拼音标准来输入和编写中文。他们并不使用这种方式的语言,你继续使用拼音输入并期望它等同于书面中文,基于计算机编译器。虽然他们会授予一些官方认证,但几乎都是在电信互联网中使用的简化语言。
So understand that inferior position, if you actually more computer user for keyboard and compiler, rather than someone who in speech do so, or listening do so, based on hand writing this stuff
首先,普通话作为书写系统中的一种口语语言来阅读和口语交流,如果你不学习并且只是凭听到或说出的内容来书写,这实际上并不是在真正使用中文。因此,你要理解这种劣势,如果你更多的是计算机用户,使用键盘和编译器,而不是依赖口语或听力来书写这些内容,理解这一点很重要。
Yes one Chinese friend of mine went to Oakham , a posh school near my home , he has a ‘better’ accent than me
I know a Brit who is fluent in 4 Chinese languages ,and when I needed a complicated character read read was advised to contact him
They know each other
我有一个中国朋友去过我家附近的一个高级学校——奥克汉姆,他的口音比我还要“好”。
我认识一个英国人,他能流利使用四种中文,并且当我需要读一个复杂的汉字时,别人建议我联系他。他们彼此认识。
If I was sentenced in China, got imprisoned and had to share a cell with several Chinese cellmates, they’d learn Russian, English and maybe some Ukrainian, but I wouldn’t be able to learn any Mandarin at all. I’m good at learning languages, I’m hard-working, and my memory is not bad. However, tonal languages aren’t my forte, to put it mildly. I don’t hear any tones at all.
Nevertheless, many people are more intelligent than me. These people can speak Mandarin.
如果我在中国被判刑入狱,并且需要和几个中国囚犯共用一个牢房,他们会学俄语、英语,甚至可能学乌克兰语,但我却无法学到任何普通话。我擅长学习语言,工作努力,记忆力也不错。然而,声调语言对我来说并不擅长,我完全听不出声调。尽管如此,许多人比我聪明,他们能说普通话。
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
There is nothing merely “technically possible” about any of that. Racial origin, DNA, or where one resides do not, taken alone, limit which languages a person is able to learn. If you want to get technical about it, people can TECHNICALLY speak some language “fluently,” while still having a foreign accent. There are many, many people who can do these things. There are even Chinese Westerners. They, too, can speak as many languages as they are able to learn.
这些情况都不仅仅是“技术上可能”的问题。种族来源、DNA 或者居住地,单独来看,并不会限制一个人学习哪些语言。如果要讲技术上的话,人们可以“流利”地说某种语言,同时仍然有外国口音。有很多很多人可以做这些事情。甚至还有中国的西方人。他们也能说尽可能多的语言,因为他们能够学习。
I'm feeling sad that people now think it's impossible to learn a language to make themselves fluent in that language. yk, it just takes hard work and stamina in some ways!
我感到难过的是,现在人们认为不可能学会一种语言达到流利的程度。其实,只要努力工作和坚持,就可以做到!
Oh sure, the problem is what is fluent.
In that loads of people claim Winston Stergil (SerpentZA) is completely fluent, except his entire vocabulary can be counted on one hand.
I meet ‘fluency’ requirements in Chinese and can read well over 5000 characters. Most Chinese consider me to be completely illiterate though :D
哦,当然,问题在于什么是流利。很多人认为温斯顿·斯特吉尔(SerpentZA)完全流利,但他的整个词汇量可以用一只手数过来。我在中文中满足了‘流利’的要求,能读懂超过5000个汉字,大多数中国人认为我完全是文盲
The condition is irrelevant.
Yes, it is possible for some Westerners to speak Mandarin fluently, regardless of whether it is technically possible for zero, some, many, or all Chinese people to speak English fluently.
条件无关紧要。
是的,对于一些西方人来说,说一口流利的普通话是可能的,不管从技术上讲,是否所有的中国人都能说一口流利的英语。
Up to about 2 billion.
There are just over 1 billion speakers of Chinese (many native speakers of Mandarin, but most of the rest also speak Mandarin, plus a few second language speakers of Mandarin from elsewhere).
There are also over 1 billion English speakers, more than half of whom are non-native speakers. So their degree of fluency may vary, but I think you would “be able to talk to” them in most cases.
大约有20亿人左右。 有超过10亿人讲中文(其中许多人是普通话的母语者,但大多数其他人也讲普通话,还有一些来自其他地方的普通话二语者)。 另外,还有超过10亿人讲英语,其中一半以上是非母语者。因此他们的流利程度可能有所不同,但我认为你在大多数情况下“能够与他们交流”。
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
假设每种语言大约有11亿人,总共有22亿人。但是,许多普通话讲者也会讲英语(也有一些英语讲者会讲普通话),所以确实存在一些重叠。总体来说,我认为重叠部分不会超过2亿,因此2亿是一个合理的估算。(我们可能还需要稍微向下调整一下这个数字,因为重叠的情况可能更多一些。也许中文讲者之间的重叠更多,或者有些人可能不真正流利于这两种语言等等。但也有可能一些非母语的英语使用者没有被包含在这个估算中。所以很难确定。如果你真的在意流利程度,你需要逐个测试。因此,这个估算是合理的。)
According to data from the Summer 2023 Global Language Census, there are approximately 1.3 billion native Mandarin speakers and 1.3 billion native English speakers globally. However, there is significant overlap between these populations, as many individuals are fluent in both languages.
A rough estimate is that a person fluent in both Mandarin and English would be able to communicate with around 2 billion people worldwide - the sum of native Mandarin and English speakers, minus the overlap. This represents over a quarter of the global population that could be reached through fluency in these two widely spoken languages.
根据2023年夏季全球语言普查的数据,全球大约有13亿普通话母语者和13亿英语母语者。然而,这两个群体之间有很大的重叠,因为许多人都能流利地使用这两种语言。
粗略估计,一个同时流利于普通话和英语的人能够与大约20亿人沟通——这是普通话和英语母语者的总和,减去重叠部分。这代表了全球超过四分之一的人口可以通过流利掌握这两种广泛使用的语言来沟通。
I am interested in learning Mandarin. But for now, I have 0% proficiency in it. So I am not a good candidate to answer your question.
But if I attempt to answer it, I would say I could speak to 80% of people in China. 90% of people in the United Kingdom. Perhaps 70% in Europe. Around 55% in Asia. 40% Africa.
This is a rough estimate which may be accurate by 40%. So there you have it, I just confused you and I am not far behind either.
我对学习普通话很感兴趣。但目前我对普通话的熟练度为0%。所以我不适合回答你的问题。 不过,如果我尝试回答的话,我会说我可以和80%的中国人和90%的英国人说话。也许在欧洲能与70%的人交流。在亚洲大约55%。在非洲大约40%。 这是一个粗略的估计,准确度可能在40%左右。所以你看,我刚刚让你困惑了一下,我也不算落后。
This sort of reminds me of a discussion I heard about the Welch language. I heard it said that if you speak Welch you can talk to about 20 percent of the people in Wales. If you speak English, you can talk to about 20 percent of the people in the world.
这让我想起我听到过的一次讨论关于威尔士语的情况。我听说,如果你会说威尔士语,你可以与大约20%的威尔士人交流。如果你会说英语,你可以与世界上大约20%的人交流。
well, china and USA are all super countries, so, many countries in this world are prefer to learn Chinese and english, even there are many assistants in the shop can speak Chinese and english. so if we can speak these languages we can speak to more than 1/2 people all around the world.
嗯,中国和美国都是超级大国,所以世界上许多国家的人都愿意学习中文和英语,甚至许多商店里的助手都能说中文和英语。因此,如果我们能说这些语言,我们就能与全球超过一半的人交流。
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Wikipedia says the population of mandarin speakers is roughly 1.2 billion and there are 1.6 billions people who speak English. It is not easy to get the accurate number though.
维基百科称,说普通话的人口约为12亿,说英语的人口约为16亿。然而,要得到准确的数字并不容易。