为什么很多外国人在5-6年后离开日本?如果这是一个这么好的国家，人们为什么不留下来呢?（下）

Funk
Lol! That this question popped up in my feed is remarkable! After being in Tokyo for 7 years, on this occasion, I’m returning to the US in 8 days. In total, coming & going, I’ve lived in Japan for about 15 years. There are a few reasons I decided to head back to the US…
#1) The population of metro Tokyo is about 14 mil people. I was raised in the countryside, so just the dense population started getting to me.
#2) Despite having gone to university in Japan, & being fluent in the language, it’s impossible to fit in as a foreigner. B/ I already knew this, since first coming 33 years ago.

哈哈！这个问题突然出现在我的推送中，真是令人惊叹！我在东京生活了7年，值此之际，8天后就要回美国了。算上往返，我在日本生活了大约15年。有几个原因促使我决定回到美国…
东京市区人口约1400万。我在乡村长大，所以密集的人口开始让我感到不适。
尽管我在日本上了大学，日语也很流利，但作为一个外国人，想要融入这里几乎是不可能的，我33年前第一次来的时候就知道这一点。

#3) Japan is 97% Japanese people. In the US African-Americans make up about 13% of the population. In Japan, African-Americans make up about .000013% of the population. So, I just am tired of being the pink poodle/ unicorn, everywhere I go.
#4) Tokyo is a great place to be a tourist, b/ horrible to be an expat. As a tourist, it’s easy to get away w/ breaking the rules. As an expat, following the rules is an important part of having a successful experience. & there are a million social rules to follow, in Tokyo, b/c it is so densely populated.

日本的日本人占了97%。在美国，非裔美国人约占总人口的13%。在日本，非裔美国人的比例大约只有0.000013%。所以，我厌倦了成为众人瞩目的焦点。
东京是一个旅游的好地方，但对外国人来说却很可怕。作为游客，很容易逃避规则。作为外国人，遵循规则对于拥有一段成功的经历至关重要。。而且，因为东京人口密集，需要遵守的社会规则数不胜数。

#5) I had a GREAT job, so I was able to save up enough to have a house built & pay cash for it, back in the US, so I don’t have to deal w/ any banks, loans, a mortgage, interest, etc. I also had a great real estate agent! Moving to a place where the population is ONLY about 75,000 people!
#6) I turned 52 this year, and am tired of city life. Big cities are great for younger people, in my opinion. In Tokyo, there is not a lot of nature, the air is not clean, summer heat is unbearably hot/ humid, there is a lot of light pollution so I can’t see the stars at night, & I hardly see any animals or wildlife here. Tokyo is the very definition of concrete jungle!

我有一份很棒的工作，所以我存够了钱，在美国建了房子，而且是一次性付清，这样就不必和银行、贷款、按揭、利息等打交道。我也遇到了一个很好的房地产经纪人！我将搬到一个只有大约7.5万人的小地方！
我今年52岁了，厌倦了都市生活。大城市对年轻人来说很棒，我是这么认为的。在东京，自然景观不多，空气质量不佳，夏天的高温潮湿让人难以忍受，光污染严重，晚上看不到星星，也几乎看不到任何动物或野生动物，东京就是典型的混凝土丛林！

Takaba Nk
A friend put it nicely. “I’m completely in love with this beautiful country, I just can’t stand the Japanese.”
It was a joke of course and the person actually had good friends in Japan.
So why did this person say this?

一位朋友说得很好：“我完全爱上了这个美丽的国家，我只是无法忍受日本人。“
这当然是个笑话，他在日本也有好朋友。
那么，他为什么会这么说呢？

Japanese people cannot handle conflict. Unable to debate, disagree, deal with unease in a relationship. They just cut ties and disappear at the first sight of friction.
They tie up their identity with their country too much. Foreigners criticizing Japan? They criticize me! This mentality drives people crazy. Not everything is shiny. Once a foreigner becomes critical then goodwill disappears. But can anyone stay uncritical for years? Can anybody just praise a country without any criticism? There can’t be any problems?
Extremely difficult to build meaningful relationships. Difficult to strike up a conversation. Frustrating small talk. One-trick ponies with only one hobby or interest. I hate to say this, but there are a lot of boring people all having the same shallow opinions and identical views. Lack of interest in ideas, especially abstract ones is a big problem. Practical, philistine mindset is common, luckily with a slight artistic/aesthetic bend. But, you need some country-level professor, artist, or some heavy-weight person to find someone truly interesting.

日本人不擅长处理冲突，不擅长辩论、不擅长拒绝、不擅长处理关系中的不适。他们一遇到摩擦就切断联系，然后消失。
他们过于将自己的身份认同与国家紧密相连。如果有外国人批评日本，他们感觉就像在批评自己一样！这种心态会让人抓狂。事物不可能总是完美无缺的。一旦外国人提出批评，之前的热情和友好往往就会消失。但是，谁能够多年来一直保持完全不批评的态度呢？谁又能只对一个国家进行赞美而不提出任何批评呢？这个国家真的没有任何问题吗？
建立有意义的人际关系极其困难，很难开始对话，闲聊令人沮丧。许多人只有一种爱好或兴趣，我讨厌这么说，但有很多无聊的人都持有同样肤浅的观点和相同的观点。我不得不说，对思想尤其是抽象思想的兴趣不足是一个严重的问题。实用主义和庸俗的心态很常见，幸运的是还有轻微的艺术和美学倾向。但是，你需要遇到一些国家级的教授、艺术家或重量级人物，才能找到真正有趣的人。

They try to do their best at work, in relationships, and in other social situations. This by itself is admirable. This is probably the best quality in Japan. A strive for excellence. Craftsmanship. Pursuing perfection. However, at the same time this makes people extremely critical of others. I worked so hard, and he just did a shortcut? Lousy, unfair, free rider, etc. They immediately criticize. They are critical of people working in the service industries and in business in general. They have extreme expectation of quality and service. This leads to a toxic work environment that wants to avoid any criticism. Employees suffer.
No concept of work-life balance. Secretly, people think that those who take the life part seriously are lazy, selfish, not hardworking, disloyal, not group-oriented enough. So, people do their best not to be tagged these and give up the life part.
Lots of comparisons. You need to be identical or else, they walk away. “Oh, they are not a good fit for me. I don’t waste my time on them.” This makes relationship building stressful and relationships boring. If we are identical then what is interesting?

他们在工作、人际关系和其他社交场合都尽力做到最好。这本身是令人钦佩的，可能是日本最好的优点——追求卓越、工匠精神、追求完美。然而，这也使他们对他人极其挑剔。我辛辛苦苦地工作，而他只是走了捷径？令人厌恶，这太不公平了，简直就是搭便车。他们会立刻提出批评。他们通常对服务行业和商界的工作者要求苛刻。他们对产品和服务的质量有着极高的期待。这种态度营造了一个充满压力的工作环境，员工们努力避免受到任何批评，这让他们倍感痛苦。
没有工作与生活平衡的概念。人们暗地里认为那些重视生活的人是懒惰的、自私的、不努力的、不忠诚的、不够有团队精神。所以，人们尽量不被贴上这些标签，放弃了生活。
人们之间充满了相互比较。如果你和他们不是完全一样，他们就会转身离去，说：“哦，我们性格不合。我不想在这样的人身上浪费时间。”这种态度让建立关系变得充满压力，也让人际关系变得枯燥无味。如果我们的想法和行为都一模一样，那生活还有什么新奇和趣味可言呢？

People pretend, asskiss, fake/hide emotions, over-interpret, backstab, plot in the background, push out others, make factions etc. Constant stress, like in a medi palace drama of scheming individuals and factions. Stressful and tiring.
Honesty is not valued. People think that honesty is childish. Hiding one’s emotions is the mark of an adult. Saying what’s on your mind is childish, uncivilized. This does not mean that they lie, or that they are dishonest in a bad way, they just don’t say what they really think. And this makes foreigners crazy. Number one complaint about Japan.
“Gaman” culture. Endurance, especially mental endurance, is esteemed off-the-charts high. However, this leads to people enduring meaningless and stupid things which is not needed. Masochistic endurance races are common in companies to show who is the better worker. Smart work is not valued, enduring mindless things is valued extremely high. Marks you out as loyal and hard working. Smart work is seen as corner-cutting, uncommitted, sly. The man who stays for the meaningless meeting until eight on Sunday is a saint. The man who propose a new tool that would cut workloads is a disloyal, lazy, selfish guy who only cares about reducing his own workload.

人们伪装、拍马屁、隐藏情绪、过度解读、背后捅刀、策划、排斥他人、制造派系等等。持续的压力，就像在中世纪宫廷剧中，充满阴谋的个人和派系，让人感觉压力很大，很累。
诚实不被重视。人们认为诚实是幼稚的。隐藏自己的情绪是成年人的标志。说出你的想法是幼稚的，不文明的。这并不意味着他们在撒谎，或者他们在不好的方面不诚实，他们只是没有说出他们真正的想法。这让外国人抓狂——对日本人这一点极为抱怨。
“忍耐”文化。耐力，特别是心理耐力，被高度重视。然而，这导致人们毫无意义地忍受不必要的事情。在公司中，为了展示谁是更好的工人，常见的是无意义的耐力竞赛。聪明的工作不被重视，毫无意义的事情被极度重视——这标志着你忠诚和努力工作。聪明的工作被视为走捷径、不承诺、狡猾。那个在星期天呆到晚上八点参加毫无意义的会议的人是圣人。提出一种可以减少工作量的新工具的人是一个不忠诚、懒惰、自私的家伙，他只关心减少自己的工作量。

Mindless hierarchy, meaningless meetings, outdated methods, incompetent managers. All because people cannot say what they should be saying. Workplaces are full of cowards, yes men, and conformist followers of the great top management. Once someone steps out of line, they will be tagged for life as troublemakers. The top go at them, and nobody goes to the rescue even if they know that those on the top are wrong.
Mindless belief in leaders. Age and gender discrimination in subtle ways. Young members and low-ranking women especially are not encouraged to speak out in meetings, etc. Know your place mentality left over from the Confucian past.
Galapagos syndrome. People know less about the world, than the Chinese who are blocked by a censorship firewall. The Japanese are not interested in the world. Their little world is enough. Just a few stereotypes will do. Much interest go to America and Western Europe, maybe a few friendly, unthreatening developing countries. The rest is just not interesting. This also makes them arrogant, not knowing what is going on in the world.
Maybe a bit harsh, but hopefully it helps someone. After knowing the country for a very long time, I guess there is some truth to the above.

愚蠢的等级制度，无意义的会议，过时的方法，不称职的管理者。都是因为人们不敢说出他们应该说的话。职场上满是懦夫、唯命是从的人，以及那些只会追随高层领导的顺从者。一旦有人偏离了常规，他们就会被永久地标记为惹麻烦的人。高层会对他们进行攻击，即便其他人意识到高层的做法是错误的，也没有人会挺身而出提供帮助。
对领导者的盲目信仰。以微妙的方式进行年龄和性别歧视。年轻的成员和低级别的女性在会议等场合特别不被鼓励发言，等等。知道自己的位置，这都是儒家思想遗留下来的。
加拉帕戈斯综合症。人们对世界的了解程度比被审查防火墙封锁的中国人还少。日本人对了解世界不感兴趣。他们只关心自己的小圈子，依赖一些刻板印象来了解外界。他们主要关注美国和西欧的情况，偶尔也会对一些友好且没有威胁的发展中国家表示兴趣。对于其他国家，他们则显得不太关心。这种狭隘的世界观让他们变得骄傲自满，对全球的动态和变化知之甚少。
或许这些话听起来有些严苛，但希望它能够对某些人有所启发。深入了解这个国家多年后，我相信上述观点中确实包含了一些真实的情况。

Edit:
By honesty, I’ve meant straightforwardness and saying what one really has to say, including negative opinions, or things that will cause conflict.

编辑：
我所说的诚实，是指坦率和说出一个人真正必须说的话，包括负面意见或可能引起冲突的事情。

Nik Frengle
Why do many foreigners leave Japan after 5-6 years? If it is so good a country, why don't people stay?
I lived in Japan for a total of about 15 years, on three different stints of 18 months, six months, and 13 years.
For me there were two aspects that caused me to leave and not go back, albeit after 13 years, not 5–6.

为何许多外国人在日本生活5到6年后选择离开？如果日本真有那么好，为何人们不留下来？
我本人在日本总共居住了大约15年，分为三个阶段：第一次18个月，第二次6个月，最后一次13年。
有两个主要原因促使我离开日本，并且不打算再次回去，尽管我在那里待了13年，超出了通常的5到6年。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

Work
I partially agree with a previous answer that suggested that 5–6 years is a period where career and work necessitate leaving Japan, particularly for those who first go to Japan straight out of university, in their early 20’s. The reality is that a majority of Westerners are in Japan teaching English or other languages. Scoring a ‘proper’ job is difficult, because you have to deal with not only speaking fluent Japanese, but your utility will mainly be seen as your command of English, because if you came to Japan in your early 20’s, there is a pretty good chance that you didn’t have a lot of experience prior to that. It is not impossible to find a proper job, but among my group of acquaintances, I am the only one I know to do so. So, the answer may be to leave and get experience. And, yes, the rose-coloured glasses mean that you think things will be better in your home country. And the truth is that even in a ‘proper’ job, even if you are in a foreign-affiliated company, you will likely face a glass ceiling. I hit this working for Vodafone, when I was told straight up “you are really qualified, but sorry, you are a gaijin,” when being considered for a promotion.

工作
我部分同意之前一个答案的观点，它提出5到6年是职业生涯发展需要离开日本的一个时期，特别是对于那些刚从大学毕业、20岁出头就直接去日本的人。现实情况是，大多数西方人在日本从事英语或其他语言的教学工作。想要在日本找到一份“正规”的工作非常困难，因为你不仅要日语流利，而且你的主要价值很可能仅仅是你的英语能力。如果你20多岁来到日本，很可能在那之前并没有太多工作经验。找到一份正规工作并非不可能，但在我认识的人群中，只有我做到了。所以，可能的解决办法是离开日本，去积累经验。当然，带着那些理想化的幻想，你总觉得自己回国后一切都会变得更好。但实际上，即使你在一家外资公司的正规工作中，你也可能会遭遇职业发展的“玻璃天花板”。我在沃达丰工作时就遇到了这种情况，当我被考虑晋升时，他们直接告诉我：“你非常合格，但对不起，你是个外国人”。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

Belonging
But there is another thing, not only economic, but the emotional need for a sense of belonging to a place: After 5 or 6 years, although in my case it took 13 years, it may become obvious that even though you may speak very good Japanese, may have adopted some of the attitudes, may have a Japanese significant other, sleep on a futon in a tatami room, and even have corn on your pizza, you will never be accepted. As a white or black foreigner, you will never be accepted as one of the group. And in Japan that is really important. If you are not one of the wareware Nihonjin, you are an outsider, and will always be treated so. Having invested considerable time in learning a quite difficult language and customs, it hurts to realise that, to some extent, that has been in vain. The hurt may be sufficient to cause you to leave.

归属感
但还有另一个问题，不仅仅是经济层面的，更关乎情感上的归属感：过了5年或6年，尽管在我这里花了13年，你可能会发现，即使你的日语说得很好，可能已经采纳了一些日本的生活方式，可能有了一个日本伴侣，睡在榻榻米房间的蒲团上，甚至在披萨上放玉米，你仍然无法被完全接受。作为一个白人或黑人，你永远不会被视为群体的一部分。在日本，视为群体的一部分真的很重要。如果你不是我们日本人中的一员，你就是一个局外人，永远会被这样对待。在投入了大量时间学习一门相当难的语言和习俗之后，意识到这一点，这在某种程度上，你的努力似乎白费了。这种认识可能会让你感到痛苦，足以促使你离开。

Edit: There were a fair few comments asking for examples of times when I felt that I was made to feel that I didn’t belong. I would say that these incidents for the most part were everyday things: There only being one seat open on a train (next to you) and no one choosing to use the seat; being stopped by policemen for no discernible reason other than ethnicity; being told that a bar you wanted to go into was full (despite it obviously not being); shop clerks looking really alarmed when you went towards them. There were also very overt times: The rental landlord saying straight up that they won’t rent to a foreigner; the employer saying straight up that they would never employ a foreigner; the mother saying to her child (in Japanese, thinking I couldn’t understand) not to sit next to the foreigner. The everyday things happened, well…every day. There was one guy who commented that he would get me a tissue. I am not a victim, and I don’t cry into my pillow every night because of how I was treated. I was stating why I wouldn’t want to live or work in Japan after the 13 or so years I have already lived there. And I realise that this happens in other countries. In fact, I am an American, and have lived in the UK for the last 17 years since I left Japan. And I can say that, yes, there is sometimes the feeling of being an outsider here, as one Kiwi said, but it is nothing like the every day occurence it was in Japan. There are times when standing out is nice. But in Japan that definitely separates you, and a sense of belonging is difficult. I was telling of my experience, though. I loved lots of things about the 13 years I was there, but I have chosen not to spend my life there.

编辑：很多人在评论中要求我给出让我感到不受欢迎的例子。我想说，这些情况大多是日常小事：比如火车上只有一个空位（恰好在你旁边），却没人选择坐下；没有明显原因只是因为种族特征而被警察拦下；被告知你想进的酒吧已经满员了（尽管显然没有）；店员看到你走向他们时显得非常惊慌。也有一些非常明显的例子：房东直接说他们不会租房给外国人；雇主明确表示他们永远不会雇佣外国人；一位母亲用日语对她的孩子说（以为我听不懂）不要坐在外国人旁边。这些日常小事每天都在发生。有人评论说他会给我一张纸巾，但我不是受害者，我不会因为我受到的待遇而每晚哭泣。我讲述的是我为什么不想在日本生活和工作——尽管我已经在那里生活了13年左右。我知道这种情况在其他国家也会发生。事实上，我是美国人，自从离开日本后，我在英国生活了17年。我可以说，是的，有时候也有被当作局外人的感觉，但这和在日本每天发生的情况完全不同，在英国，有时候与众不同是件好事。但在日本，这绝对会让你感到孤立，很难获得归属感。不过我讲的是我的经历。我喜欢我在那里的13年经历的的很多事情，但我选择不在那里度过我的一生。