生活在像智利或挪威这样一个瘦长的国家，对生活在那里的人来说，是否有什么特别的挑战？
Does living in a long, skinny country like Chile or Norway pose any particular challenges for the people who live there?
译文简介
我来自智利，虽然地理环境带来了一些挑战，但我相信这并不是一个特殊状况，而且它无处不在。每个国家都面临着他们自己的挑战。
正文翻译
Does living in a long, skinny country like Chile or Norway pose any particular challenges for the people who live there?
生活在像智利或挪威这样一个瘦长的国家，对生活在那里的人来说，是否有什么特别的挑战？
生活在像智利或挪威这样一个瘦长的国家，对生活在那里的人来说，是否有什么特别的挑战？
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Lived in Santiago, Chile
I’m from Chile, and though geography poses some challenges, I believe that that is not a peculiarity, and that it happens everywhere. Every country faces their own callenges.
In the case of Chile it looks weird because it’s a very skinny 4200 kms long country that looks shaped like a Chile (no connection though), but actually when you are here you realize is very natural (the Andes on one side, the Pacific on the other, the Atacama deser in the north, the Fjords in the south).
(Actually, if you want to tour Chile, is pretty straightforward which direction you have to go)
Most of the country lives in an area no bigger than one third of the country. The other regions are very hard to live in, but not because of the shape of the country, but because of the extreme geographic and weather conditions.
Anyways, fun fact about Chile: we don’t have east and west. Seriously. Those are two word that we just don’t use. Everybody are from north or south (or center). But east and west? Nah, you won’t ever hear a Chilean useing them.
(We do use, however, “poniente” and “oriente”, that relates to where where sun is born and dies)
居住在智利圣地亚哥
我来自智利，虽然地理环境带来了一些挑战，但我相信这并不是一个特殊状况，而且它无处不在。每个国家都面临着他们自己的挑战。
就智利而言，它看起来很奇怪，因为它是一个非常窄瘦的4200公里长的国家，看起来像一个辣椒（虽然没有联系），但实际上当你在这里时，你会发现这非常自然（一边是安第斯山脉，一边是太平洋，北部是阿塔卡马沙漠，南部是峡湾）。
(实际上，如果你想在智利旅游，你去哪个方向都很简单。）
全国大部分人都生活在一个不超过三分之一的区域内。其他地区的生活非常困难，但不是因为国家的形状，而是因为极端的地理和天气条件。
总之，关于智利的有趣事实：我们没有“东”和“西”。我是认真的。这是我们不会使用的两个词。每个人都来自北方或南方（或中间）。但是东部和西部呢？不，你永远不会听到智利人使用它们。
(然而，我们确实会使用 "poniente "和 "oriente"，这与太阳的升起和下落地点有关。）
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born Vietnamese
I don't know if it's any different than any other countries with more "conventional shapes".
In Vietnam, we have 3,444 km (2,140 mi) of coastline. The narrowest point in the central province, Quang Binh is only 40,3 km.
Such long coastline leave the country exposed to natural disasters like typhons, floods. But then the U.S with long coastlines suffer the same disasters too.
The two biggest cities in Vietnam are located in the North and the South. Hanoi in the north is the capital. Meanwhile Hochiminh city in the south is the business center.
The longest domestic flight from North to South (Hanoi - Phu Quoc Island) takes about 2h20. Roadtrips from North to South and vice versa would take a few days as the road condition is not the best. That turns out however to be a good source of tourism since such trips attract a lot of interest. I've seen people go on such roadtrip by cars, motorbikes or even good old bicycles.
Since the country trails from North to South, it experiences various types of climate. The North has humid tropical climate with humidity averaging 84% throughout the year (even in the winter). The central region weather is usually dry and hot in winter while the South is hot and humid all year since it's quite close to the equator. Yesterday my wife had to wear two layers of clothes on her way to the airport in the morning. As soon as the plane arrived to Hochiminh city, she had to change to summer outfits. That's a challenge for people who live in Vietnam. But then anyone who take the New Dehli-Bangalore flights in India during winter will experience the same thing.
So I'd say, narrow countries experience the same things that large countries like the U.S., India, China or Russia have. Challenges or advantages that really depends on one's perspectives :)
生于越南
我不知道这是否与其他拥有形状更"常规"的国家有什么不同。
在越南，我们有3,444公里（2,140英里）的海岸线。在中部省份广平，最窄的地方只有40.3公里。
如此长的海岸线使国家面临着广泛自然灾害，如台风和洪水。但是，美国的海岸线很长，也遭受同样的灾害。
越南最大的两个城市分别位于北部和南部。北部的河内是首都。同时，南部的胡志明市是商业中心。
从北到南最长的国内航班（河内-富国岛）大约需要2小时20分钟。从北到南的公路旅行，反之亦然，需要几天时间，因为道路状况不是最好的。然而，这变成了一个很好的旅游来源，因为这种旅行吸引了很多人的兴趣。我见过人们乘坐汽车、摩托车甚至是老式自行车进行这种公路旅行。
由于这个国家从北到南，它经历了各种类型的气候。北部地区是湿润的热带气候，全年湿度平均为84%（即使在冬季）。中部地区的天气通常在冬季干燥而炎热，而南部由于相当接近赤道，全年都很炎热和潮湿。昨天我妻子在早上去机场的路上不得不穿两层衣服。飞机一到胡志明市，她就不得不换上夏天的衣服。这对生活在越南的人来说是个挑战。但是，任何在冬季乘坐印度新德里-班加罗尔航班的人也会经历同样的事情。
所以我想说，狭窄的国家会经历与美国、印度、中国或俄罗斯等大国一样的事情。挑战或优势，真的取决于一个人的观点 :)
One thing that I believe that Vietnam has experienced, not only but partly due to its geography of being a country with large "ends" and a long, very narrow middle, is frequent political separation between north and south. Not just, obviously, the division into north and south Vietnam after WWII, but also at other times in history, like the Trịnh lords in the north and the Nguyễn lords in the south during the 16-18th centuries.
Obviously other countries have also experienced divisions and civil wars distinguished by geography, but my guess is that it's easier to separate Vietnam in two (and keep it separated for longer) when the middle is only 40-50km wide, with the ocean on one side and near-impenetrable mountainous jungle on the other.
我认为越南经历过的一件事，即频繁的南北政治分离，不仅仅但部分原因确实是由于其地理上是一个"两头大、中间长、非常窄"的国家。显然，不仅是二战后越南南北的分裂，还有历史上的其他时期，比如16-18世纪时北方的郑主和南方的阮主。
显然，其他国家也经历过因地理环境而区分的分裂和内战，但我的猜测是，当中间只有40-50公里宽，一边是大海，另一边是几乎无法穿越的山地丛林时，将越南一分为二（并保持更长时间）是比较容易的。
Thanks for the reply. I know exactly what you're talking about, having travelled from Hanoi to HCMC via bus, train and plane some years ago. It took much longer than I expected and I was really rushing towards the end of the two weeks! Wonderful, memorable vacation, though.
谢谢你的回复。我完全知道你在说什么，几年前我曾通过汽车、火车和飞机从河内到胡志明市旅行。花费的时间比我预期的要长得多，而且在两个星期的时间内里，我真的很急。不过，这是个美妙的、令人难忘的假期。
how did you measure the length of coastline? My belief is that coastlines are fractions and I could claim that Vietnam's coastline is in fact one million km long, and you couldn't prove me wrong, with all the resources in the world (in mathematical terms, coastlines are fractals).
你是如何测量海岸线的长度的？我认为海岸线是碎片化的，我可以宣称越南的海岸线实际上有100万公里长，你就算用上全世界的资源也不可能证明我错了（从数学角度讲，海岸线是碎片化的）。
I'm well aware of that but let's not get technical here 'cause it would stray from the question itself.
我很清楚这一点，但我们不要在这里谈技术问题，因为这样会偏离问题本身。
Canadian, lived in 3 prov, visited 10, have lived elsewhere
People don't necessarily think of Canada as a long, skinny country, but if you look at the population map below you will see that it effectively is. Maybe the longest and skinniest. The black area is not only sparsely populated, but there are almost no roads.
Being long and skinny presents some difficulties:
1) Isolation. A lot of people are a long way from the capital city. This tends to contribute to the feeling that the government is out of touch and doesn't represent their concerns.
2) Travel is expensive. I can travel more cheaply and easily to most places in the US and some in Europe than I can to major cities on the coasts. There just isn't enough population density and the linear distances are just too great to make cheap, easy travel viable.
3) Defence. Happily Canada has had a fairly good relationship with the US for over 100 years. If not Canada would be completely indefensible. Thousands of kms of the world's longest border could not possibly be guarded by a sparse population, even if the US wasn't a superpower. We can't even properly patrol our main coasts and that is the short part of the country.
4) Costs. Because distances are large and densities are low, transit of items adds to the cost of food and goods and economies of scale are hard to achieve.
5) Time-zones. There are six different zones in Canada. This doesn't have that much day to day impact, but does affect people in the west to a degree. Often when there are elections the outcome is known before people in the west have finished voting. It also makes syncing business meetings and cooperation with offices in different parts of the country more difficult.
加拿大, 住过3个省，访问过10个省，在其他地方居住过
人们不一定认为加拿大是一个又长又瘦的国家，但如果你看一下下面的人口地图，你会发现它确实是。也许是最长和最窄的。黑色区域不仅人烟稀少，而且几乎没有道路。
又长又窄带来了一些困难。
1）孤立。很多人都离首都很远。这往往会让人觉得政府与外界脱节，不能代表他们的关切。
2）旅行很贵。我去美国的大多数地方和欧洲的一些地方旅行比去沿海的主要城市更便宜、更容易。这里的人口密度不够，直线距离太远，便宜、方便的旅行是不可行的。
3）国防。令人高兴的是，100多年来，加拿大与美国保持着相当好的关系。如果不是这样，加拿大将完全无法防御。即使美国不是超级大国，世界上最长的数千公里的边界也不可能由一个稀少的人口来守卫。我们甚至不能对我们的主要海岸线进行适当的巡逻，而这是国家的短板部分。
4）成本。由于距离大，人口密度低，物品的运输增加了食品和货物的成本，规模经济很难实现。
5）时区。加拿大有六个不同的区。这对日常的影响不大，但在一定程度上影响了西部的人们。通常，当有选举时，在西部的人们完成投票之前就已经知道了结果。这也使得与全国不同地区的办公室同步进行商业会议和合作更加困难。
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Y'know, Russia does not patrol and defend most of its coast. It is simply ineffective to attack the populated areas overland via tundra and boreal forest. Canada would do fine patrolling just part of the BC coast and most of Labrador and the Atlantic provinces.
要知道，俄罗斯并没有对其大部分海岸进行巡逻和防御。通过冻土带和北方森林从陆路进攻人口密集地区是根本不可能的。加拿大只需在不列颠哥伦比亚省的部分海岸以及拉布拉多和大西洋省份的大部分地区进行巡逻就可以了。
Yeah I think you are right. Since Harper's ill-fated pledge to 'assert our sovereignty in the Arctic' fizzled I think a more realistic paradigm may have replaced it. It isn't that clear to me that our navy is sufficient to carry out the reduced mission you mention. It's still a large area.
是的，我想你是对的。自从哈珀"维护我们在北极地区的主权"的承诺泡汤后，我认为一个更现实的范式可能已经取代了它。在我看来，我们的海军是否足以执行你提到的已经大为减少的任务，并不那么清楚。这仍然是一个很大的区域。
Since the US navy shares your concerns, I think Canada can afford to spend their attention elsewhere :-)
既然有美国海军分担，我想加拿大可以把注意力放在其他地方:-)
Why the area immediately to the north of Great Lakes is almost not populated? It's not just long but also interrupted inhabitation - and north coast of Great Lakes should not be that much cold? Russia also would fit that criteria, of course.
为什么紧靠大湖区北部的地区几乎没有人烟？不仅仅很长，而且还中断了居住的连续性--五大湖的北岸应该没那么冷啊？当然，俄罗斯也会符合这个标准。
That's a good question and I'm not sure I have a good answer. My best guess is geology. The Canadian Shield roughly parallels the 'dead zone.' It is a region of rock, lumber, minerals and lakes, but without particularly fertile soil. Most early settlers were likely farmers or needed to live near farms. Mining and lumber can't typically sustain large populations by themselves. This is mostly a guess though. You'll probably get a better answer if you post the question on Quora.
这是个好问题，我不知道我是否有一个好答案。我最大的猜测是因为地质学。加拿大地盾大致与"死亡地带"平行。它是一个充满岩石、木材、矿物和湖泊的地区，但没有特别肥沃的土壤。大多数早期定居者可能是农民或需要住在农场附近。采矿和木材通常不能单独维持大量人口。不过这主要是一种猜测。如果你在Quora上单独发布这个问题，可能会得到更好的答案。
(*ahem*) Ever since Canada decided to join Newfoundland there are SIX time zones. ;-)
Technically, eight (but really six) for parts of the year when some parts of some provinces opt out of daylight savings.
（*嗯哼*）自从加拿大决定加入纽芬兰以来，就有6个时区。;-) 严格来说，在一年中的部分时间里，当一些省份的部分地区选择不使用夏令时时，有八个（但实际上是六个）时区。
Our coastline is the longest in the world. Even the west coast is longer than it seems on a large scale map because of fiords. It is not just a matter of military defence but of (for example) environmental protection.
我们的海岸线是世界上最长的。由于峡湾的存在，即使是西海岸也比大比例尺地图上看起来要长。这不仅仅是一个军事防御的问题，也是一个（例如）环境保护的问题。
Why is election results announced before everybody has done with polling? It would effect people's polling behaviour.
为什么要在所有人都完成投票之前宣布选举结果？这将影响人们的投票行为。
They have talked about an information blackout at different times, but people in the more populous east typically want to know the result before going to bed.
他们在不同时期都谈到过需要封锁信息的问题，但人口较多的东部地区的人们通常希望在睡觉前知道结果。
It's a valid point. Canadian Federal government is chosen by the electorate for local Members of Parliament (MP). These typically represent 20k-50k voters. Those MPs choose the prime minister, albeit pre-chosen by the party system. There is an election of Prime Minister by the parliament along with the Speaker of the House. Pretty much a ceremony.
Up until this year it was illegal to post results until the polls closed in the local area but that law was changed with the Fair Elections Act (2014, bill C-23) as the internet the past three election made the law unenforceable.
这是一个有效的观点。加拿大联邦政府由选民选出当地议会议员。这些通常代表 20k-50k 选民。这些国会议员再选出总理，尽管候选人是由政党制度预先选出来的。议会与众议院议长一起选举总理。几乎只是个仪式。
直到今年，在当地投票结束之前发布结果是非法的，但随着互联网的存在，过去三届选举使该法律无法执行，于是该法律随着《公平选举法》也进行了改变。
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They could've made an act that says no counting till all the polls are in. Austin Bugden says the more populous east wants to know results before going to bed, that seems like a crappy reason ........ surely they won't be 'waiting' when they're sleeping.
他们本可以制定一个法案，说在所有投票结果出来之前不计票。但是奥斯汀-布格登说人口较多的东部地区想在睡觉前知道结果，这真是个蹩脚的理由........他们肯定不会在睡觉时“等待”。
We do it a lot in the US. By the time the west coast polls are closing the results from the east coast states are in. And this is ignoring Hawaii, which is really far out there.
我们美国也经常发生这种事。当西海岸的投票结束时，东海岸各州的投票结果已经出来了。这还没有考虑到夏威夷，那里真的很远。
In the US it's ok. The election system there makes for a 2 way contest, as a result people aren't changing votes based on results from somewhere else.
If there is just 1 more candidate then this system (of declaring results before all polls are in) starts affecting poll result, currently that's not the case (although has been in the past).
在美国，这么干没事。那里的选举制度是双向竞争的，因此人们不会根据其他地方的结果来改变投票。
如果再有一个候选人，那么这个系统（在所有投票结束前宣布结果）就会开始影响投票结果，目前还没有这种情况（尽管在过去有）。
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Why are there people living at Whitehorse, Yellowknife and Iqaquit? They look extremely isolated from the rest of the country.
为什么会有人住在白马、耶洛奈夫和伊魁特？他们看起来与国家的其他地方极为隔绝。
They are isolated. All are territorial capitals. Whitehorse and Yellowknife are primarily 'frontier' type places with a heavy emphasis on mining. IqaluitI I know even less about, but I think it has its roots in a strong aboriginal community.
它们是隔绝的。它们都是领土的首府。白马和耶洛奈夫主要是"边疆"类型的地方，主要强调采矿。我对伊魁特了解得更少，但我认为它的来源是一个强大的原住民社区。
” Often when there are elections the outcome is known before people in the west have finished voting.”
Man, I really hated that about living in Washington state.
I was standing in line to vote for president one time when someone announced the results of the election…
" 往往在有选举的时候，西部的人们还没有完成投票，结果就已经知道了。"
确实，我真的很讨厌住在华盛顿州的这一点。
有一次，我还站在排队投票选举总统的队伍中，有人宣布了选举结果......
Good answer. I would have assumed that transport cost is THE big problem far and large. Canada, maybe Russia, are unique among other long&narrow countries in that they are east-west oriented and are inland with no major waterways beyond Lake Superior. That makes transport of goods significantly costlier, and brings in time zones as well. Living on the XXIst century I would assume travel and communication is no longer such a big issue and defence is much more influenced by your neighbours (Turkey, India, Korea…) than by the shape of the territory.
好回答。我认为运输成本是一个很大的问题。加拿大，也许还有俄罗斯，在所有狭长的国家中是独一无二的，因为它们是东西走向的，而且是内陆，除了苏必利尔湖之外没有主要的水路。这使得货物运输的成本大大增加，而且还带来了时差问题。生活在二十一世纪，我认为旅行和通信不再是一个大问题，国防受邻国（比如土耳其、印度、韩国......）的影响要比领土的形状大得多。
Gardener, Reader, Life long student of everything
My wife was from Chile and I have traveled there a lot, have in laws there and plan on retiring there. Distance from the capital is a problem. I have had to deal with paperwork that can only be solved in the capital which can be more than 16 hours away by car. Weather patterns and changes in weather can have a major impact since the majority of agricultural development occurs in a narrow band of land. As mentioned previously natural disasters that might not normally cripple a country can have major effects especially considering the limitation of travel down one major highway. On a lighter note my wife never developed much of a sense of direction (north, west, east, south). Either she never needed it or it was just her.
Still love the country. One benefit of the layout (at least for Chile) is a great diversity in the land around you.
我的妻子来自智利，我在那里旅行了很多次，在那里有我的岳父岳母，并计划在那里退休。与首都的距离是一个问题。我不得不处理一些只能在首都解决的文书工作，而首都的车程可能超过16小时。天气模式和天气变化会产生重大影响，因为大部分的农业发展都发生在一个狭窄的土地上。如前所述，本来通常不会使一个国家瘫痪的自然灾害在这里会产生重大影响，特别是考虑到在一条主要公路上旅行的限制。说句题外话，我的妻子从来没有发展出什么方向感（北、西、东、南）。要么她从来不需要，要么就是她自己的问题。
我仍然喜欢这个国家。这种布局的一个好处（至少对智利来说）是你周围的土地有很大的多样性。
HAHA you caugt us, is not only your wife, people in chile have no sense of direcion or whatsoever you just have to look for the sea or the mountains and you figure it out quickly
哈哈被你发现了，不仅是你的妻子，智利人都没有方向感，你只需要寻找大海或山脉，你就能很快知道方向。
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My wife too! She loses her bearings in Apumanque shopping mall, which is only two floors (plus 3rd floor food court) and has a square layout aligned with N, S, E & W.
我的妻子也是如此! 她在阿普曼克购物中心失去了方向，该购物中心只有两层（加上第三层的美食广场），而且是以东南西北对等的方形布局。
Yes, the country can be very vulnerable to natural disasters and foreign aggression (fortunately this is very unlikely nowadays). 2010 earthquake basically cut off for a few days parts of the south.
是的，这个国家可能非常容易受到自然灾害和外国侵略的影响（幸运的是现在这种情况非常少）。2010年的地震基本上切断了南部部分地区的交通，为期数天。
Norwegian
Silly as it may sound, it actually does for some people.
From my hometown of Stavanger on the southern coast of Norway to the northern city of Kirkenes there is more than 1000 miles, or about 1650 kilometers, in air distance. We're no Chile, but that's still pretty far spread out for a country of 5 million people. For comparison, if I travel the same distance south I could get to about Monaco in France or Firenze in Italy.
Round trip flights to Northern Norway can be as expensive as $400 or more. You can get round trip flights from Oslo to New York that are cheaper!
By plane, it takes three and a half hours to the northernmost part of the country. But by car it will take you 30 hours of non-stop driving because of our poor roads. That's like driving from Chicago to Los Angeles! If the people in Kirkenes want to visit relatives in South Norway, there is just no realistic way around those expensive airplane tickets.
Partly because of this, and partly because of the climate, about 90% of our population lives in the southern part of the country.
挪威人
虽然听起来很傻，但对某些人来说确实如此。
从我的家乡挪威南部海岸的斯塔万格到北部城市基尔肯斯，空中距离超过1000英里，或大约1650公里。我们不是智利，但对于一个500万人口的国家来说，这仍然是相当遥远的距离。作为比较，如果我往南走同样的距离，我可以到达法国的摩纳哥或意大利的佛罗伦萨。
到挪威北部的往返航班可能会比去这些地方贵400美元或更多。你可以买到从奥斯陆到纽约的往返机票，而且价格更便宜
乘飞机到该国最北端需要三个半小时。但是开车的话，由于我们的道路很差，你需要不停地驾驶30个小时。这就像从芝加哥开车到洛杉矶一样! 如果基尔克内斯的人们想去拜访南挪威的亲戚，实在没有现实的办法来绕过那些昂贵的飞机票。
部分原因在于此，部分原因在于气候，我国大约90%的人口居住在国家的南部地区。
Jonathan Rice
In 2009 my wife and I flew from the UK to Trondheim, Norway. We hired a car and travelled 1,500 miles to the northernmost point, stopping at mahy small towns and villages along the way. Yes, we could have started some in mainland Europe and ticked many different countries off the list, or travelled to more 'glamorous' nations, but with one jaw-dropping turn after another that road trip was phenomenal. Mountains,fjords, crystal-clear water, glacier climbing (in July), whale safari, midnight sun, food, culture, music - everything. It's a unique experience, and a must-see!
2009年，我和妻子从英国飞往挪威的特隆赫姆。我们租了一辆车，行驶了1500英里，到达最北端，沿途在许多小城镇和村庄停留。是的，我们本可以从欧洲大陆开始，从名单上勾选许多不同的国家，或前往更"迷人"的国家，但这次公路旅行的一个又一个令人瞠目结舌的转折是惊人的。山脉、峡湾、清澈的水、攀登冰川（在七月）、鲸鱼探险、午夜的阳光、食物、文化、音乐--一切。这是一个独特的体验，是一个不可错过的地方!
Do people ever travel from one place in Norway to another by going through Sweden (or some other country: Finland? Russia?)?
人们从挪威的一个地方到另一个地方，是否会经过瑞典（或其他一些国家：芬兰、俄罗斯？）
Yes! My parents went on a road trip across Norway and drove through both Sweden and Finland on the way north as that is the fastest route. Then they took the scenic, but slower, route through Norway south.
是的! 我的父母进行了一次穿越挪威的公路旅行，在向北行驶的途中经过瑞典和芬兰，因为那是最快的路线。然后他们再走风景优美但速度较慢的路线，向南穿过挪威。
In Chile people find it difficult to obtain visas to go to the U.S. unless they live in Santiago, as that is the only city with a consular office. If you are from a city such as Temuco or Aisén and you want to get a visa to the U.S. (Even just for tourist) you have to take a bus to the closest airport then take a flight all the way up to Santiago. Or worse: take a 12 hour bus ride. This can also apply to other services, such as medical treatment for rare diseases, etc.
在智利，除非住在圣地亚哥，否则人们很难获得去美国的签证，因为圣地亚哥是唯一设有领事办公室的城市。如果你来自特木科或艾森这样的城市，而你想获得去美国的签证（即使只是旅游签证），你必须坐车到最近的机场，然后一路坐飞机到圣地亚哥。或者更糟的是：坐12个小时的巴士。这也可以适用于其他服务，如获取治疗罕见疾病的医疗等。