二代美国华裔：家人不喜欢中国怎么办?
What to do with family members hating China?
译文简介
大家好，我第一次在这里发帖! 我的妹妹和弟弟虽然是第二代华人，但他们似乎讨厌中国的一切，不断向我重复福克斯的头条新闻，我能做些什么让他们不讨厌自己的传承吗?
正文翻译
Hello first time poster here! My sister and brother despite being 2nd generation Chinese seem to hate everything about China, repeating fox news headlines to me, is there anything I can do to make them not hate their own heritage?
大家好，我第一次在这里发帖! 我的妹妹和弟弟虽然是第二代华人，但他们似乎讨厌中国的一切，不断向我重复福克斯的头条新闻，我能做些什么让他们不讨厌自己的传承吗?
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There's no help for them because they are all running dogs of western imperialism. Their little, petty minds have been colonized.
他们没救了，因为他们都是西方帝国主义的走狗。他们的小心眼被殖民化了。
There might still be hope. Just look at HK. Once the western-funded seditionists were arrested, all the riots immediately stopped.
也许还有希望。看看香港就知道了。一旦西方资助的煽动者被捕，所有暴乱立即停止。
停止播放福克斯新闻，把他们介绍给和他们同龄的第一代中国人朋友。当他们看到与自己年龄相仿的人喜欢中国时，他们会学会从另一个角度看问题。
Unless you're willing to take your sweet time trying to teach them there isn't much you can do.
Deprogramming takes a very long time and is generally not worth the effort.
除非你愿意花时间去教他们，否则你也无能为力。
反编程需要很长时间，而且通常不值得这么做。
I can deprogram in one day because I know the exact weak points of the US narrative lol. It's only time-consuming to deprogram from a Leftist perspective because philosophy doesn't really work.
Not going to tell you though, Reddit really hates the weak-points being exposed.
我可以在一天内对他们反编程，因为我知道美国叙事的确切弱点，哈哈。从左派的角度反编程是非常耗时的，因为哲学其实不管用。
但我不打算说出来，因为红迪网十分不喜欢这些弱点被暴露出来。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
It is worth it for those you care about.
对于你在乎的人来说，这是值得的。
Without knowledges of Chinese history, respect for socialism, and disdain for America's demonstrated behavior, etc.. your siblings are brainwashed lol. They'll have to visit China one day.
不了解中国历史，不尊重社会主义，不鄙视美国所展示的行为等等。你的兄弟姐妹被洗脑了，哈哈。他们总有一天会去中国的。
Yeap. Convince them to take a trip to find all "bad things about China". Hopefully the bubbles will burst.
对啊。说服他们去旅行，看到所有“中国不好的地方”的真相。他们的泡沫会破灭的。
I cannot debunk Fox News on Reddit, from a Libertarian perspective, mainly due to Reddit censorship. If we can talk in another platform, I can systematically debunk the core values of all Right-Wingers as being nothing but fraud.
I am certain your sister and brother will not be receptive to a Leftist analysis, because at that stage, I wasn't.
从一个自由主义者的角度，我不能在Reddit上揭穿福克斯新闻，主要是因为Reddit的审查。如果我们能在另一个平台上讨论，我就能系统性地揭穿所有右翼分子的核心价值观，认为他们不过是欺诈。
我肯定你的妹妹和弟弟不会接受左派的分析，因为在那个阶段，我也做不到。
Reddits rather leftist compared to most social medias
与大多数社交媒体相比，reddit的用户相当左派。
None of the page-long memes which relies more upon material conditions than the feel-good ideological foundation of the US can convince a brainwashed liberal, because they think in a fundamentally different way from a marxist.
比起美国自我感觉良好的意识形态基础，那些长篇累牍的表情包更依赖于物质条件，它们无法说服被洗脑的自由主义者，因为他们的思维方式与马克思主义者根本不同。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
首先，必须彻底摧毁意识那个形态基础。
此外，“揭穿”必然会涉及沙文主义，这也是Lemmy所禁止的，因为这是自由意志主义的观点。
The only way is to travel to China. Also they'll turn around when they get discriminate against
唯一的办法就是去中国旅游。而且，当他们受到歧视时，他们会发生转变。
Not always, I've seen Chinese dig deeper into self loathing after they got discriminated against. Sometimes they even blame their encounter on China, for example "if I didn't look this way(Asian) I wouldn't be mistaken as a Chinese and get spit on"
并非总是这样，我看到过有些中国人在受到歧视后，会更深地陷入自我厌恶。有时他们甚至把自己的遭遇归咎于中国，比如“如果我没有长成这样(亚洲人)，我就不会被误认为是中国人，从而被人吐唾沫了。”
That's pretty sad.
真可悲。
Saw that before with Japanese/Korean/HK/TW/Diaspora. The thing about these people is that their victim complex + Stockholm syndrome practically radiates out of them, acting as social repellant.
以前在日本人/韩国人/香港人/台湾人/侨民身上看到过这种情况。对于这些人，他们的受害者情结+斯德哥尔摩综合症几乎溢了出来，就像被社会排斥一样。
There's been several posts about it in the past. Here's one of them, and my response (which redirects to another Post and Response lol.)
过去已经有好几篇关于这个问题的帖子了。这是其中之一，和我的回复(重定向到另一个帖子和回复，哈哈)。
基本上，永远不要和你试图说服的人争论。相反，他们只会陷得更深。
倒推，直到你找到共同点，并(巧妙地)指出你的解决方案可能会有什么帮助。
don't convince them to like "China". (Subtly) Let them enjoy non-westernised Chinese food (teach them the different Chinese provinces and geography via cuisine), get them to watch Chinese 'Anime' (I love Scissor Seven), get them to listen to Kpop and sneak in Chinese music like Nawukere (那吾克熱 NW), an extremely popular Uyghur rapper from Xinjiang, or subscribe to 88 rising and watch 'Made in China' by Higher Brothers, which is... not as subtle.
不要说服他们喜欢“中国”。(巧妙地)让他们品尝没有西化的中餐(通过菜肴教他们中国不同的省份和地理)，让他们看中国的“动漫”(我喜欢《伍六七》)，让他们听Kpop并偷偷加入中国音乐，比如Nawukere(那吾克熱NW)，一个来自新疆的非常受欢迎的维吾尔族说唱歌手，或者订阅88 rising并观看Higher Brothers的“中国制造”，这个……不太巧妙。
就我个人而言，我的一些家人甚至没有经历这个争吵的阶段。他们疯狂地看中国电视剧，最终某个开关突然打开了。
基本上永远不要和你想要说服的人就他们想要表达的观点展开争论。一定要倒推，并从根本上说服他们。当然，在互联网上，有时你并不想说服别人，你只是想用喷的方式来让旁观者明白你的观点。在这种情况下，就使劲争辩吧。他们越生气就越好。
Worst part is, I can’t even argue, both my sister and brother want me to have to back up everything I say, but then proceed to say everyone hates our ethnic homeland, so they need no proof for claims.
最糟糕的是，我甚至无法争辩，我的姐姐和哥哥都希望我必须为我说的每一件事提供证据，但接着说因为每个人都讨厌我们的祖国，所以他们不需要任何证据。
Don't try to convince them, then. Just find things that you personally really enjoy and love about either traditional Chinese culture, or modern China. Make your own journey fulfilling and exciting for you.
那就别试图说服他们了。只要找到你个人真正喜欢和热爱的传统中国文化或现代中国的东西。让你自己的旅程充实和兴奋起来就好。
我能感受到你对自己处境的苦恼和沮丧。但科学证明，压力和消极会压倒长期计划和策略(它会让我们变得愚蠢，降低获胜的可能性)。现代中国ZF(实际上过去的大多数中国ZF)运作良好，正是因为他们不掺杂感情，用客观和科学的方法长远地看待问题。
在香港暴乱期间，在看到暴乱者一次又一次的暴行之后，这个版面的很多人希望以血还血。但发生了什么？XJ的KB分子也是如此。尽管人们觉得“他们”不“配”这种待遇，但中国选择了振兴当地经济，提高当地人的生活水平。这在情感上是违反直觉的。他们中有极端分子，在大街上刺伤和杀害公民，为什么要奖励他们? 但现在XJ处于和平和富裕状态。美国在面对同样的情况时，对穆斯林发动了20年的战争，但没有任何结果。
在重新发现你祖国的文化的过程中，只需要找到积极性、成长的力量和信心。这件事令人激动！从那里，你会发现你的影响力和能力将会增长。这在情感上是违反直觉的，但它就是有效!
随着中国软实力和影响力的增长，会有越来越多的东西促使人们去关注中国。如果你能把这种负“能量”(我指的是你每天真正的能量，而不是什么神秘的鬼话)转移到学习和享受这种文化上，你就会找到微妙的方式在未来将其介绍给你的兄弟姐妹。
This is the way, exactly how i approach it as well. I show them my travels there and theyre like “that doesnt look too bad at all” lol no shit it doesnt.
这就是我的方法，我也是这么做的。我给他们看我在那里的旅行，他们说“（中国）看起来一点都不差”，哈哈，一点都不差。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
there are 2 ways to convince someone:
utterly humiliate them such that they have nothing to say, then build them up again.
sneak around their mental barrier and erode it away with soft power
The least effective method is rational argument.
有两种方法可以说服某人:
彻底羞辱他们，让他们无话可说，然后再重建他们的看法。
绕过他们的心理障碍，用软实力侵蚀它。
有效性最差的方法是辩经。
Take them on a sightseeing vacation to China when the COVID restrictions are loosened. Even for someone who hates the current China ruled by the "evil see-see-pee dictatorship", seeing the Bund or the Great Wall is something politically neutral. I mean how can anyone really hate a piece of architectural history? While they're there they'll get to see the true China. Seeing is believing. Or in their case disbelieving, all the Western lies they've been told.
当新冠肺炎限制放松时，带他们去中国观光度假。即使是对那些讨厌中国现在被“XE的DC者”统治的人来说，看看外滩或长城，也是一件政治中立的事情。我的意思是，怎么会有人讨厌一件建筑历史呢? 当他们在那里的时候，他们会看到真正的中国。眼见为实。或者他们之所以不相信，是因为他们听到的都是西方的谎言。
Take them on a sightseeing vacation to China when the COVID restrictions are loosened
I hope that happens soon, I want to go back.
我希望能尽快实现，我想回去。
It's already impressive of you to stay independent from such brainwashing impacts of your siblings. The only very few thing you can do is to be you and to keep your critical thinking.
你能不受兄弟姐妹的这种洗脑影响已经很了不起了。你唯一能做的就是做你自己，保持你的批判性思维。
If you eat shit your whole life, you are going to think it is normal. Start moving outside de usa.
如果你一生都在吃屎，你会认为这是正常的。搬出美国吧。
They are just like 90+ percent of people in the West (and similar proportion or higher for 2nd generation diaspora). There is nothing you can directly do, really.
他们就像90%以上的西方人一样(第二代移民的比例也差不多或更高)。你没有什么可以直接做的，真的。
Try sarcasm
试试讽刺他们。
We know from the efforts to deprogram white supremacists it takes a long time and it focusses on letting them know what they're missing out * ie social exclusion rather than any logical argument, because they don't respond to logic. Since such people didn't come to their conclusion by reasoning, its very hard to reason them out of it. Moreover, one has to wonder about their reasoning ability or lack of it in the first place.
从对白人至上主义者进行“反编程”的努力中，我们知道这需要很长时间，而且重点在于要让他们知道他们错过了什么——即社会排斥，而不是任何逻辑争论，因为他们不会以逻辑来回应。因为这些人不是通过推理得出结论的，所以很难用推理的方式让他们走出来。此外，我们不得不怀疑他们的推理能力，或一开始就缺乏推理能力。
所以对于你的家人来说，除非你愿意花费大量的时间和精力，否则它很可能不值得你这么做。
如果有人对这个话题感兴趣，这种谬误的论点是一种结果谬误。它是错误的，因为在这种情况下，一个陈述的真相并不依赖于相信该陈述的结果。举个例子，唐纳德·特朗普仍然输掉了大选，但特朗普的铁杆支持者们认为他仍然是总统。伽利略关于地球绕太阳转的观点并没有错，但仅仅因为他相信这一点就被教会关了起来。
Don't argue with people in real life about China. Instead, ask them where they get their information and why they think news media controlled by oligarchs is reliable.
不要在现实生活中与人争论中国。相反，问问他们是从哪里获得信息的，以及为什么他们认为寡头控制的新闻媒体是可靠的。
Tell them there's no point doubling down on the US. People make mistakes, even when choosing where to immigrate.
Hating on China, wont make the US any better.
告诉他们在美国身上加倍下注是没有意义的。人们会犯错误，即使是在选择移民地的时候。
恨中国不会让美国更好。
Don’t waste your time. Live your best life. China censors for a reason. The Chinese style is to ignore fruitless conversations.
不要浪费你的时间。过最好的生活。中国审查是有原因的。中国人的风格是忽略没有结果的对话。
Underrated take. They hate censorship because it doesn't allow them to spread misinformation, create cultural identify war, destabilize China
被低估的看法。他们讨厌审查制度，因为它不允许他们传播错误信息，制造文化认同战争，破坏中国的稳定。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
You’ve got it. It’s financial terrorists like George Soros with his dark political money, Opinion editorials, and Open Society society that tries to undermine China.
你明白了。像索罗斯这样的金融恐怖分子用他的黑色政治资金、评论社论和open society（索罗斯的基金会）式社会，试图破坏中国。
I used to hate censorship until my political journey (largely driven by my hatred of censorship) pushed me into places with more and more free speech, and I noticed something peculiar: paradoxically, the ones who censor the most are usually the biggest shills of the First, and the greatest defenders of free speech in US spaces believe in an ideology where speech should be tightly-controlled!
我曾经讨厌审查制度，直到我的政治旅程(很大程度上是受我对审查制度的厌恶所驱使)把我推到了言论自由越来越多的地方，而且我注意到一些奇怪的事情：矛盾的是，那些最喜欢搞审查的人通常是第一世界的最大托儿，而且美国地盘上言论自由的最伟大的捍卫者，竟然信奉一种“言论应该受到严格控制”的意识形态!
我也可以肯定，中国的网络审查比西方“国家”少得多。
I'll tell you something interesting though. I'm first gen Chinese staying in Los Angeles, came here when I was 12, at the beginning I'm the same (hating on Chinese government mainly because I hear my parents trash Chinese government) then later when I start looking into videos about China at around 16 to 17 it would be always negative, I remember I loved Chinese unsensored because it was basically the only YouTube channel talking about China back then, and I think it's because of the algorithms that pushed the channel onto me. But years go by and I STILL see those China is bad because....Videos on YouTube, then I started to ask the question. "Does China ever improve?" So I just did some Google searchings (one thing that helped EXTREMELY is I still could read basic Chinese) when I found other sources that shows me how different China have improved I was shocked. In my mind I was like "wait...Why would Americans not want the people know about this?" Then I got deeper into the history, the political, the racial and cultural influence. I still got more to learn, but at least I'm no self loathing, blush when talking about China anymore, at least I'm proud of who I am, if American can be proud with their fucked up oppressive history then me as a Han Chinese is equally proud of our history (of being oppressed then fight back with unity)
我要告诉你一些有趣的事情。我是住在洛杉矶的第一代华人人，是12岁来到这里的，一开始我和他们一样（我讨厌中国ZF主要是因为听到我的父母在说中国ZF的坏话），然后当我在16到17岁的时候，开始看关于中国的视频，总是负面的，我记得我喜欢Chinese unsensored频道，因为它基本上是当时YouTube上唯一一个谈论中国的频道，我认为这是因为算法把这个频道推给了我。但是多年过去了，我仍然“发现”中国很糟糕，因为....YouTube上的视频，然后我开始问这个问题。“中国进步了吗?”所以我就谷歌了一下（有一件事对我非常有帮助，那就是我仍然能读懂基本的中文），当我发现其他资料显示中国的进步截然不同时，我被震惊了。在我的脑海里，我想:“等等……为什么美国人不希望人民知道这件事?”然后我深入了解了历史，政治，种族和文化的影响。我还有很多东西要学，但至少我不再自我厌恶，一谈到中国就脸红，至少我为自己感到骄傲，如果美国人可以为他们该死的压迫史感到骄傲，那么我作为一个汉族人，也会为我们的历史(被压迫然后团结起来反击)感到骄傲。
Same here but unlike u I can’t even read Chinese just can speak easy Cantonese. The whole anti China narrative in mainstream media got me a bit unsure about the information I was reading…. Like how is it that all news even the bombshell ones are negative and in all mainstream news site…. That really got me thinking and the deeper I got I was like wow I feel so brainwashed by the western perspective and I mean u can see it even more with todays atmosphere….made me really feel bad for the Middle East and Russians cus they are always showed as villains. It’s sad.
我也一样，但不像你，我根本不懂中文，只会说简单的广东话。主流媒体上的整个反华叙事，让我对我读到的的信息有点拿不准……我心想，为什么所有的新闻，甚至是重磅新闻都是负面的，而且所有主流新闻网站都这样....这真的让我陷入沉思，我越是深入思考，我就越是认为，哇，我觉得自己被西方的观点洗脑了，我想说，在今天的氛围中我们会看到更多这种情况……这让我真的为中东和俄罗斯感到难过，因为他们总是被描绘成恶棍。可悲。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
As a non Chinese the rabbit hole started with the "ghost cities". I was like hmmm, that's the smart thing to do, you first build the city and then people come. But noooo Anglos were shouting Tsinnaa will collapse, they can't sell their buildings. And I was like let's wait and see, we've been hearing about the "collapse" for too long. And slowly I understood that there was an organized effort to lie about China and make it seem that CCP doesn't know what they are doing. In reality this cannot be further from the truth. Also the crocodilian tears about the Uyghours also pissed me off. And then I found out that actually essentially nothing has happened to Uyghours and its all a lie so the west can sanction China whenever they want...
作为一个非中国人，我对中国看法的拐点始于“鬼城”。我当时想，嗯，这是明智的做法，先建造城市，然后人们才会来。但是不，盎格鲁人喊着中国会BK，他们的房子卖不掉。我想，让我们拭目以待吧，我们听说“崩溃”的消息太久了。慢慢地，我明白了，他们在有组织地就中国问题撒谎，让人觉得中国不知道自己在做什么。事实上，这与事实相去甚远。此外，关于V52人的鳄鱼眼泪也惹恼了我。然后我发现实际上什么都没发生，这都是谎言，让西方可以随时制裁中国……
Western liberal education is highly politically charged on the topic of China and would go to every length to portray China as the new Nazi Germany. For example, my school curriculum explicitly uses the word "authoritarian" in describing China's system and compares Mao to Hitler and Mussolini
西方的自由教育在中国这个话题上充满了政治色彩，会不遗余力地把中国描绘成新的纳粹德国。例如，我的学校课程在描述中国的制度时明确使用了“威权主义”这个词，并将毛与希特勒和墨索里尼进行了比较。
Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds
New discoveries about the human mind show the limitations of reason.
The vaunted human capacity for reason may have more to do with winning arguments than with thinking straight.
https://archive.ph/W1moU
为什么事实不能改变我们的想法，
关于人类思维的新发现显示了理性的局限性。
人类被吹嘘的理性能力可能更多地是为了赢得辩论，而不是清晰地思考。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
A lot of misdirected self hate and shame. Maybe seek therapy for them.
很多错误的自我憎恨和羞耻。也许可以为他们寻求治疗。
I find that sometimes, the anti-China Chinese are just jealous of Chinese people who love their heritage.
我发现有时候，反华的中国人只是嫉妒那些热爱自己传统的中国人。
他们接受了西方的宣传，尽管他们在西方的种族阶层中是二级公民，但他们在某种程度上仍然更好。
当像你这样的人成功、快乐，还支持中国时，他们会嫉妒。他们仍然相信他们的生活在某种程度上比你们的好。
很多台湾人都有这种心态。
不幸的是，你无法说服他们改变主意。
唯一可能改变他们想法的事情，是非常不幸的极端事件(比如如果他们被种族主义者攻击)。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I find that sometimes, the anti-China Chinese are just jealous of Chinese people who love their heritage.
Nah, that's not it.
不，不是这样的。
尊重自己DNA的成功ABC（美国出生的华人）和“我希望我生下来就是白人”的雏儿单身狗 ABC之间真正的分界线是自信。
一个自信的人不会依赖于其种族来获得自我价值。这就是为什么你永远不会遇到一个种族歧视的成功人士。他们其实不怎么关心种族。
而那些雏儿单身狗，他们执着于自己的种族身份，因为他们没有其他东西来证明自己的存在。对ABC来说，这通常意味着他们会变成汉奸，因为他们认为把中国推向失败会让他们被美国白人所接受。
但这样做的ABC是没有前途的。
ABC女性如果尝试这样做，就会变成低级白人男人的肉便器。
It's self identity crisis
自我认同危机。
Tell them it isn't really smart to listen to colonizers talk about the biggest geopolitical challenge to their hegemony. Lol.
告诉他们，听从那些殖民者对中国的说法是不明智的，因为后者是他们霸权最大的地缘政治挑战。
不论他们为他们的白人主子流多少泪，中国都在踢他们主子的屁股。