管理学视角：为什么在美国担任领导职位的群体中，人数相对不足的是东亚裔而非南亚裔？（评论部分）

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The leadership attainment gap between East Asians and South Asians was consistently explained by cultural differences in assertiveness
Assertiveness seems to be the key factor here. East Asians are taught from a young age to not be assertive and to do whatever your elders tell you. Furthermore, there is an extremely judgmental attitude about people who speak out or pursue something & fail - like a bunch of gossipers, East Asians will bring each other down.

东亚人和南亚人攫取领导职位方面的差距一直都是以自信/胆魄方面的文化差异来解释的。
自信/胆魄似乎是这里的关键因素。东亚人从小就被教育不要自信，长辈要求你什么你就去照做。此外，对于那些敢于畅所欲言或是去追求些什么然后失败了的人，会存在一种非常极端的批判心态，就像一群搬弄是非之徒的嘴脸，东亚人会互相扯后腿。

[dexed]
South Asians due to their long association with whites, know how to work the whites.
Also EASEA are not as trusted. Imagine the outrage if a Chinese guy becomes the CEO of Google.
Don't forget anti Japanese business sentiments were very strong.
EASEA companies are doing way better though. That's more important.

由于长期与白人来往，南亚人深谙玩转白人的方法。
另外东亚人也不那么容易被信任。想象一下，如果一个华人男成为谷歌的首席执行官，会引发多大的愤慨。
不要忘了，反对日企的情绪一度非常高涨。
不过，东亚/东南亚人的公司的发展比其他公司好得多。这才是更为重要的。

TrekkieSolar
Not sure if this is included in the study, but a lot of these South Asian CEOs are usually 1G immigrants from India who are among the best and brightest in the country (eg. Satya Nadella, Indra Nooyi, Sundar Pichai) and relatively privileged too (went to the right schools, have access to networks in the US and back home, usually aren't first-gen college students, etc). Both qualities make a big difference in your ability to move up the corporate ladder - I don't doubt that a lot of EAs who immigrate are among the best and the brightest in their country, but given how much China/Korea/Japan has boomed in the last few decades I'd imagine there's more reward to staying home.

我不确定这项研究是否包括了这一点，但很多南亚裔首席执行官通常都是来自印度的第一代移民，他们是该国最优秀、最聪明的人（比如说，萨蒂亚·纳德拉、印德拉·努伊、桑达尔·皮查伊），也是相对而言享有特权的人士（上对了学校，在美国和本国都有人脉网络，通常都不是第一代大学生，等等）。这两种特质对你在企业中向上爬的能力大有影响，我不怀疑很多东亚裔移民是他们本国最优秀、最聪明的人，但鉴于中国/韩国/日本在过去几十年中的急速发展，我想留在国内回报会更大。

Other reasons are community cohesiveness, English fluency + anglo culture familiarity, and not being perceived as a threat by the US. The latter is pretty evident with the US losing its shit over China today and Japan in the 70s/80s - which has consequences for anyone who looks East Asian - so I'm not going to go into it too much. It's also not something we can control. The first two however make a huge difference that isn't talked about as openly.

其他原因包括族群凝聚力，英语流利度+熟谙英国文化的程度，以及不被美国视为威胁。最后一点，在今天的美国对中国以及七八十年代的美国对日本的失态中就可见一斑了，这一点，会给任何长得像东亚人的人带来后果，所以我也不打算深挖这个问题。这就不是我们可以控制的。但前两点带来的巨大影响并没有被公开谈论。
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Indian immigrants tend to be more familiar with English and western cultural norms than the average EA immigrant, and organize themselves around caste/ethnic/regional communities more so than how I understand EAs do. In practice, this means that Mr. Patel will come from India to the US, hustle to open a motel or start a company, then get his extended family/friends from the Patel community here to work with him, after which they'll branch off and repeat the process. Similarly, if Mr. Iyer comes here and gets a job with Cisco, he'll hire a few more Tamil Brahmins to join his team, and they'll hire a ton more junior engineers from colleges in India, and eventually they'll branch off into their own teams and companies, and so on and so forth. Then when it comes time to get promoted, they'll have a ton of people who have their back, and are familiar enough with norms + don't have to deal with racialized paranoia about China/Japan taking over to the point where they can get promoted and move up the ladder more easily.

印度移民往往比普通的东亚移民更熟悉英语和西方文化规范，而且相比于我理解中的东亚移民，印度移民更多会围绕种姓/民族/地区社群来自我组织。在具体操作上，这就意味着帕特尔先生会从印度来到美国，拼命努力开出一家汽车旅馆或公司，然后让当地帕特尔社区中的大家庭/朋友和他一起工作，之后他们会散出去各自发展并重复这个过程。类似地，如果耶尔先生（译注：耶尔为泰米尔人中的常见姓氏）来到这里，并在思科公司找到了一份工作，他就会雇佣更多泰米尔人中的婆罗门加入他的团队，而他们又会雇佣海量来自印度大学的初级工程师，最终他们会散出去组建自己的团队和公司，如此往复。之后，当获得晋升的时刻来临，他们就会有一大堆人在背后支持他们，而且对规范足够熟悉，还不必去处理因中国人/日本人接管而产生的种族化偏执，都到了能让他们更容易地完成晋升和向上爬的程度。

I've noticed less of a generation gap between SA parents and kids in the US, mainly due to language as well. This means that it's easier for SA kids to learn about navigating the workplace not just from their parents, but also from various uncles and aunties. And because the communities are already tight, getting hooked up with a job through an uncle's connection isn't too much of a problem. Beyond that, if you're an immigrant, chances are other SA immigrants in your field who you can connect with will go to bat for you/help you out as needed and more so than someone of another race - this has happened to me personally.

我注意到，在美国，南亚父母和孩子之间的代沟较少，主要原因也在于语言。这就意味着，南亚孩子不仅可以从他们的父母那里，还可以从各种叔叔阿姨那里更容易地学到纵横职场的技巧。而且，由于社区联系已经很紧密，通过叔叔的关系找到一份工作是不会有太大问题的。除此之外，如果你是移民，在你的领域里，你能联系上的其他南亚移民很有可能会在需要时支持/帮助你，这种情况比其他任何族裔都多见，我本人也经历过这种事。

So in response to OP's question: us SAs aren't anywhere close to perfect, and we don't have to deal with a lot of the shit that our EA brothers do. I have no idea how to systematically deal with being typecast as America's yellow nemesis. But if there's anything to take away, it's the following:

所以，我会这样回答楼主的问题：我们南亚人一点都不完美，但我们不必像我们的东亚兄弟那样去应付一大堆破事儿。被定性成美国的黄种宿敌，这事儿我也不清楚该如何有条理地去应对。但如果有什么可供借鉴的，那就是下列几点：

Look out for each other and consciously but subtly give each other a leg up when you can. Influence leads to power.

1）互相照应，在力所能及的情况下，有意识但巧妙地为彼此助一臂之力。影响力能通向权力。

Work to connect more with older folks from the community who are in more senior roles, cultivate a mentor/mentee relationship with them. Do the same with FOBs/immigrants because they'll have insights and be able to help you in ways that you're not thinking of now. If that means learning Mandarin/Korean/Tagalog etc then do it if you think it'll help your specific situation.

2）努力与社群中担任资深职务的老年人处关系，通过结交建立一种导师-门生的关系。对新移民/移民也要这样做，因为他们会有深刻的见解，能以现在的你想不到的方式帮到你。如果这意味着要学习中文/韩语/他加禄语等，如果你认为这对你当下的处境有帮助，那就去做吧。

Some people in the thread are talking about how in order to move up you need to be whitewashed. That isn't true - most Indians I know who've moved up the ladder are still strongly rooted in both the culture and the Indian American community, and you can see this with prominent ones too. However, you do need to cultivate enough familiarity with Western norms/culture to be able to navigate white spaces easily - that ranges from being able to make small talk, dressing appropriately, etc and giving special attention to that. So make sure to figure out how to play the game well too.

3）在这个话题中，有些人谈到，为了向上爬，你必须白人化。这并不属实，我认识的那些成功爬到高位的印度人中，有一大半仍然深深地扎根于印度文化和美国的印度裔社群，你也可以从那些杰出人士身上见出这一点。不过，你确实需要通过培养，对西方规范/文化足够熟悉，以便能够轻松驾驭那些白人场所，这包括进行闲聊的能力、穿着得体等等，并且要特别关注这方面。所以要确保自己弄清楚了该如何玩好这个游戏。

[dexed]
This is gonna get me hate but more south asians help other south asians than east asians help east asians
alot of these positions are initially filled by fobs who then focus on the desi talent
all of my mentors have been south asian, who wanted to help me succeed cause im half indian. Around half the time, they approached me and started our relationship

我说这话可能会遭人恨，但南亚人帮助其他南亚人的情况，要比东亚人帮助东亚人多。
这类职位中有很多，最初都是由那些新移民（之后他们会专注于本地人才）来充当的。
我所有的导师都是南亚人，他们想帮助我成功因为我是半个印度人。他们主动接近我并开始发展我们关系的情况能占到一半左右。

any of the east asian guys, ive tried to learn from, wouldn't help me out or even socialize with me even after they learnt i was half chinese. All the time, I approached them and was treated rudely.
hell most of my other east asian friends (who were full east asian genetically so it wasn't even an issue that they didn't like im half indian) were mentored by south asians and not one east asian

而我曾试图向其请教的任何一个东亚人都不愿意帮助我，甚至在得知我有一半中国血统后也不愿与我交往。我接近他们，却被粗鲁地对待，每次都是这样。
我大部分的东亚朋友（他们在基因上是彻彻底底的东亚人，所以他们不喜欢我这个有一半印度血统的人，这甚至都不算个事儿）都是由南亚人指导的，没有一个是东亚人。

Zorlark
I'm not one to admit to deterministic forces, but when considering the long history of the United States, and more broadly Western nations, India and South Asians have never been "adversaries" to America before. In fact, India was directly colonized by the UK, adapting to Western forms of government and culture. It's for this same reason that even within the subgroups of East Asia -- Chinese, Korean, Japanese -- that Chinese Americans, despite being the largest Asian ethnic group in the US, is the least represented group in Congress with just one member, Judy Chu. Proximity to Westerners ( in this case American hegemony ) and perceived in-group allegiance is important. Also, consider the fact that the US, for the better half of the 20th Century, was a colonial and imperial power in the Pacific and East Asia. America fought wars against Imperial Japan, North Vietnam, the People's Republic of China, North Korea, Laos, Cambodia, and much more. I would suspect that within the American psyche there is an inherent distrust, due to war propaganda and whatnot, against Asians. And in America, Asian implicitly means East Asian. Even further, "Chinese" is implicitly associated with East Asia writ large -- which harkens to America's Yellow Peril era and existential fear of the Oriental Race, abundant in population, over running the "pure" and "civilized" White race. Hence, we see the "othering" or perpetual foreign complex. The juxtaposition between Western Individualism and Chinese Confucianism, at the risk of being reductionist, is as stark as a cultural divide can be. All in all, I think that it's a mix of both cultural, internally and externally, that lead to this discrepancy.

我这个人不承认决定性的力量，但如果考虑到美国的悠久历史，以及范围更广泛的西方民族，印度和南亚人从来没有成为过美国的“对手”。事实上，印度是由英国直接殖民的，也就适应了西方的政府和文化范式。正是因为这个原因，即使是在东亚的子群体中（华人、韩国人、日本人），美籍华人尽管是美国人口最多的亚裔群体，却是在国会中代表最少的群体，只有一位议员赵美心。亲近西方人（在此例中即为亲近美国霸权）和能感知到的内部忠诚度是很重要的。而且，要考虑到美国在大半个二十世纪中都是太平洋和东亚地区的殖民和帝国主义强国的事实。美国对日本帝国、北越、中国、北朝鲜、老挝、柬埔寨等国进行过战争。我怀疑由于战争宣传和诸如此类的原因，美国人在心里对亚洲人有一种与生固来的不信任。而在美国，亚洲人暗指的就是东亚人。甚至更进一步，“中国人”隐隐地和整个东亚联系在了一起，这就让人想起了美国的“黄祸”时代，以及对人口众多的东方种族超过“纯洁”且“文明”的白人种族的攸关存亡的恐惧。由此，我们看到了“他者化”或永远都会存在的外国情结。将西方的个人主义和中国的儒家思想并置一处（这里存在被简化的风险），其对比之鲜明有如文化鸿沟。总而言之，我认为是两种文化的内在混合和外在混合，导致了这种差异。

Just to nitpick, although I agree east asians are viewed more as adversaries, I don't buy that India's colonial history matters in terms of proximity to westeners or that they are viewed as in-group.
The article even said before 2019 south asians actually faced MORE discrimination than east asians, which seems believable. People don't think about 1940s indian geopolitics when hiring.
The top3 reasons they get hired more 1) more assertive and better salesman behavior 2) better English/social skills 3) no "crabs in a bucket mentality" that east asians tend to have

（回）鸡蛋里挑个骨头，虽然我同意东亚人更多被看成对手，但说什么印度的殖民历史在他们亲近西方人这方面起到了很大作用，或是他们会被视为自己人，这些我是不信的。
这篇文章甚至还说在2019年之前，南亚人面临的歧视其实比东亚人还严重，这似乎是可信的。人们在招聘时不会考虑四十年代的印度地缘政治。
他们被雇佣的前三大原因是：
1）更自信，更擅长推销
2）更强的英语/社交技能
3）东亚人往往都会有的 “桶子里的螃蟹”心态，他们没有。
（译注：“桶子里的螃蟹”即“见不得别人好”的心态，互相扯后腿的行为）

DamnCammit
A whopping 43% of Indian Americans have a post grad certification, 32% have a bachelors. For Koreans it's 22% and 35%. For Filipinos it's 10% and 38%. For Vietnamese it's 10% and 22%.
Honestly I have a hard time believing that 43% of Indians have done post-grad, but it's Pew.

高达43%的印度裔美国人有研究生证书，32%有学士学位。韩裔的比例是22%和35%。菲律宾裔的比例是10%和38%。越南裔则是10%和22%。
老实说，我很难相信有43%的印度裔念完了研究生，但这可是皮尤研究中心的数据。

AsianGI
Maybe it has some truth. I noticed that asian men in my classes would never speak up. They would never try to organize study groups or lead projects, or even ask questions. The vast majority of them were wallflowers. They just kept to themselves, very competent/smart but overall very quiet.

也许这其中包藏了几分真相。我注意到，我班上的亚裔男从来都不大声发言。他们也从来不试着去组织学习小组或是做项目负责人，甚至都不提问。他们中的绝大多数人都是墙头草。他们不和别人来往，非常能干/聪明，但总体而言都非常安静。

sharka00
I can't speak for Indians since I'm EA myself. But from what I've heard from relatives who have worked with South Asians even before the tech boom is that they first and foremost lift each other up by hiring and promoting each other.

我无法代表印度人说话，因为我本人是东亚人。但我从和南亚人共事的亲戚那里听说的是：他们能互相提携，首先靠的就是互相雇佣和晋升，甚至在高科技繁荣之前就是如此了。

Look its simple math. The more East Asians you have in high profile positions the higher the chances they will make it to the top. When you're stuck at the bottom as a worker ant there is zero chance of any making it to CEO or CTO unless they form their own company. What I am saying is we should be actively recruiting, promoting, and hiring other East Asians. Pretty much every ethnic group does this but based on my experience most East Asians will not hire each other out of fear of rocking the boat. I can't speak for Asian women because that's a whole other dynamic.

你看，这是一个简单的数学问题。身居高位的东亚人越多，他们能爬到顶层的机会就越大。当身为工人的你被困在底层时，除非他们自己开公司，否则没有任何机会成为首席执行官或首席技术官。我想说的是，我们应该积极招募、晋升和雇佣其他东亚人。几乎每个族裔都会这样做，但根据我的经验，大部分东亚人不会相互雇用，因为他们害怕破坏现状。我无法代表亚裔女性说话，因为那完全是另一种态势。

fehstrahafeh
Honestly I think its due to their personalities. in college i noticed many indian guys were in all-white fraternities and dated white girls was seen as completely normal. I wasn't in a fraternity or anything but never noticed other groups joining them including Asians, Hispanics, etc. Other groups always seemed to stick to themselves. If you see an Asian-American he will usually be with 4 other Asians, if you see a Mexican he will be with 3 other Mexicans and so on and so forth. Not Indian guys however I'm talking about the ones raised in America. The ones straight from india seem very weird and also like hang out only with each other.
So maybe its just they assimilate into white corporate-society better than other minorities.

老实说，我认为这是因为他们的性格。我注意到，大学里有很多印度人都加入了全是白人的兄弟会，而且和白人女孩约会在他们眼中也是完全正常的。我没有参加过兄弟会之类的，但我注意到，别的族群从来都不会加入他们，包括亚裔、西班牙裔，等等。其他族群似乎总是自己玩自己的。如果你看到一个亚裔美国人，他通常会和其他四个亚裔在一起，如果你看到一个墨西哥人，他会和其他三个墨西哥人在一起，诸如此类。不过我说的不是印度人，而是那些在美国长大的印度裔。那些直接从印度过来的人看起来非常古怪，也是喜欢和自己人一起混。
因此，也许他们融入白人企业/白人社会的能力就是强过其他少数族裔。