英国人讨论：哪些事几乎每个西方国家都干过，却只有英国受到指责？

PaidTheTrollToll
Colonialism
 
殖民主义。
 
Belgium don't get called out enough on this one.
 
（回）这方面，比利时被点名的次数还不够多。
 
Nor Portgual.
They transported more slaves to the Americas than any other country. Everybody conveniently forgets about that.
 
（回）葡萄牙也是一样。
他们向南北美运送的奴隶比其他任何国家都多。每个人都顺势遗忘了这一点。
 
Belgium didn’t become a country until 1830
 
（回）比利时一直到1830年才成为一个国家。
 
Democratic Republic of the Congo has entered the chat. They look pissed
 
（回）刚果民主共和国一脸怒气地加入了群聊。
 
Russia gets away with their great push east.
 
（回）俄罗斯当年的大举东进，也被放过了。
 
Vietnam pushed south at the same time.
 
（回）同一时间的越南，也在南进。
 
My understanding is that Great Britain were actually one of the first countries to pass a law banning slavery, maybe not the first but not only did we ban it, we also blockaded ports off the west coast of Africa. In regards to Portugal, when they "banned" slavery (they started first and finished last with slavery pretty much) they forced every "freed" slave into a 20 year apprenticeship, not much of a freedom there.
 
（回）我的理解是，英国其实是最早一批通过立法禁止奴隶制的国家之一，也许不是第一个，但我们不仅禁止了奴隶制，我们还封锁了非洲西海岸的各大港口。至于葡萄牙，当他们“禁止”奴隶制时（在奴隶制方面，他们差不多是第一个开始而最后一个废止的），他们强迫每个“被解放”的奴隶做20年的学徒，这可就谈不上是什么自由了。
 
And that Africans had been trading slaves, within Africa and to other continents, well before Europeans came along. The Barbary slavers took to enslaving Europeans to satisfy demand when the supply of slaves from Africa was mostly going to the Atlantic slave trade.
Clearly that doesn't justify the Atlantic slave trade, but to act as though slavery is a western evil is just ignorant.
 
（回）在欧洲人出现之前很久，非洲人就一直在非洲内部乃至同其他大陆进行奴隶买卖了。当非洲的奴隶供应主要流向了大西洋奴隶贸易时，巴巴里的奴隶主（译注：由北非穆斯林组成）就开始劫掠欧洲人，把他们当奴隶以满足自己的需求。
显然，这并不能为大西洋奴隶贸易开脱，但是，把奴隶制视为西方的恶行，那就太无知了。
 
I live in Sweden.
But, you only have to look at Twitter, etc. to see attacks against British people for slavery, despite the UK being the country to end it, and the UK transporting fewer slaves than other countries.
Now, maybe if I could read Portuguese, the Portuguese side of social media would swing the other way. Who knows?
 
（回）我住在瑞典。
你只须上推特等平台看看，就会发现各种因为奴隶制而针对英国人的攻击，尽管终结了奴隶制的国家正是英国，而且英国运送的奴隶比其他国家少。
现在，如果我能读懂葡萄牙语，也许葡萄牙那边的社交媒体会是相反的风向呢。谁知道呢？
 
Maybe. I don't know Portuguese either but I do know Brazil still has the scars of slavery. Outwardly pretending to be a aracial glorious nation of equality but... It is starting to get light shone on the truth of this.
I do know French and know for a fact French colonialism gets a tonne of stick in French media and social media.
 
（回）也许吧。我也不懂葡萄牙语，但我知道，奴隶制给巴西留下的伤痕一直延续到了今天。表面上装成了一个种族平等且在种族事务方面值得称道的国家，但这方面的真相已经开始得到关注了。
我懂法语，我也知道一个事实：法国殖民主义在法国媒体和法国社交媒体上是受到大力鞭挞的。

But people forget that it was Italy who started this in Europe. Portugal entered the scene about 1000 years later, when it was a sea-faring giant.
The common denominators fort trading nations was Christianity.
 
（回）但人们忘记了，在欧洲开搞殖民主义的是意大利。葡萄牙大约是在一千年后才进入这个场子的，当时它是航海巨头。
贸易国的共同之处就是基督教。
 
Yeah, I see that a lot. As if Spain, France, Portugal, Holland and Belgium didn't have colonies. Even Scotland tried to start one, look up the Darien Scheme. Not to mention the Ottoman Empire, the Romans, the Mongols etc etc. Spain complains about having Gibraltar on their coast but they have two similar enclaves on the Moroccan coast.
 
（回）是的，我经常看到这种情况。搞得好像西班牙、法国、葡萄牙、荷兰和比利时都没有过殖民地一样。连苏格兰都曾试图开辟一块殖民地，去查查达连计划吧。奥斯曼帝国、罗马人、蒙古人等等就更不用说了。西班牙抱怨说他们的海岸上有直布罗陀这样的存在，但他们在摩洛哥海岸也有两块类似的飞地。
（译注：十七世纪末，苏格兰王国意图在巴拿马地峡和达连湾附近建立名为“喀里多尼亚”的殖民地，最终失败）
 
100% this. Though half the time people think that it was just England that did it. But Scotland equally benefited and took part in the colonial administration.
 
（回）百分之百属实。虽然人们经常会认为这只是英格兰的行为。但苏格兰也同样从中受益，还参与了殖民地的管理。
 
Don’t forget Wales’ colonial aspirations in Patagonia!
 
（回）不要忘记威尔士殖民巴塔哥尼亚（译注：位于南美南部）之志！
 
It's also a weird one because it was just the standards of the time. If South America had developed in the way Europe did and Europe was lagging behind, you can guarantee South America would have done something similar to Europe. Britain and Europe as a whole are not inherently evil and the rest of the world innocent.
 
（回）这一条也挺怪的，因为这只是那个时代的标准。如果南美以欧洲的方式发展，而欧洲落在后面，则南美保证会做出一些和欧洲类似的事情。英国和欧洲作为一个整体并不是生来邪恶的，世界其他地方也并非无辜。
 
It's only really in the last hundred years that humanity has sufficiently developed political systems to restrain war and stronger nations vicitimising weaker ones and even then our institution's records are spotty.
 
也只有在过去的一百年里，人类才真正发展出了比较到位的政治制度，来制止战争，以及强国对弱国的迫害，即便在这个时期，我们的制度留下的纪录也有好有坏。
 
Stump_E
Football hooliganism
 
是足球流氓。
 
The amount of people on Reddit saying they'd rather have Italy win Euro 2020 purely because of English fans being rowdy was amazing.
Remember, Leonardo Bonucci (scored equaliser against England in the final) basically blamed Moise Kean himself for the racist abuse he faced in Italy. Moise Kean is Ivorian-Italian and was born in Italy, moved away for the 2019-20 season to Everton.
 
（回）红迪上有很多人说，最好是让意大利赢得2020年欧洲杯，纯粹是因为英国球迷太吵，简直了。
请记住，在莱昂纳多·博努奇（在决赛中对阵英格兰队时打进了扳平的一球）眼中，莫伊塞·基恩（黑人）在意大利遭受的种族主义谩骂，基本上都是他自己活该。莫伊塞·基恩是科特迪瓦-意大利人，而且出生于意大利，他于2019-2020赛季转会到了埃弗顿队（英超球队）。
 
That was hilarious. English people themselves saying they hope Italy win because aLl oUr FaNs ArE rAcIsT tHuGs!! Like you said, I reckon they should ask Kean, Lukaku and Balotelli about racism in Italian football. Not even to mention the fact English fans get stabbed every single time they play in Italy..
 
（回）这就太可笑了。英格兰人自己说希望意大利获胜，因为所有意大利球迷都是种族主义暴徒！！如你所说，我寻思着他们应该去问问基恩、卢卡库和巴洛特利意大利足球中的种族主义有多严重。更不用说英格兰每次在意大利比赛时，英格兰球迷都会被人捅刀子。
 
Lots of Americans with zero knowledge of European football outside of highlights being shocked when fans do something even slightly bad.
 
（回）有很多美国人除了欧洲足球的高光部分，对其余是一无所知的，他们看到欧洲球迷做出最低限度的坏事，都会震惊。
 
The difference in American and European ultras is that Europeans seem more organized. There's a lot of NFL ultra fans that are shitty people, but they just sit in the parking lot tail gating getting drunk and try to pick fights with people walking by. European ultras seem to roam in large packs using mob mentality/anonymity as a cover for their aggression. 
 
（回）美国人和欧洲人的不同就在于，欧洲人似乎更有组织性。美国国家橄榄球联盟有很多极端球迷都是很烂的人，但他们无非是在停车场里喝得酩酊大醉，追人家的尾，并试图向路过的人寻衅打架。而欧洲的极端球迷一路扫荡的时候貌似是成群结队的，用从众心理或不暴露身份来给他们的攻击性打掩护。
 
See that's my view on British ultras vs European ones - English "hooligans" (where they still exist) are basically drunk/high idiots looking for a fight. The Eastern Europeans, Russians, etc are basically organised paramilitaries
 
（回）这就是我对英格兰极端球迷和欧洲极端球迷的看法，英格兰的“流氓”（他们仍然存在于英格兰 ）基本上都是些喝醉了/嗑高了想找人打架的白痴。而东欧人、俄罗斯人之类的基本上都是有组织的准军事部队。
 
Those people saying that shit were melts. I remember seeing videos of Italians groping girls and running people over and they were still trying to blame England for it.
 
（回）说这种话的人都是彻头彻尾的白痴。我记得看到过意大利人猥亵女孩、碾压行人的视频，可他们还是会竭尽全力把这些破事儿甩锅给英格兰。
 
They literally attack fans with fucking flails in Italy
 
（回）在他们意大利，会用TMD连枷攻击球迷，一点没夸张。
 
Remember the Liverpool fan who got murdered by a Roma fan in Liverpool. Shocking
 
（回）我还记得那个利物浦球迷被一个在利物浦的罗马竞技球迷杀害了。
简直骇人听闻。
 
Also going on about "English racism" when the Italian team was 100% white....
 
（回）意大利队明明全员白人，却还在叨叨说“英格兰搞种族主义”…
 
Wasn't there some Italian ultra group that said there's no black Italians?
 
（回）之前不是有一些意大利极端团体说不存在黑皮的意大利人吗？
 
I’d imagine it was Lazio, they’re notoriously far-right
 
（回）我想可能是拉齐奥队，他们因为极右的立场而臭名昭著。
 
Ok-Industry120
Xenophobia and racism
 
仇外心理和种族主义。
 
I was never, once, called out for being a foreigner or felt discriminated in my 10 years living in the UK.
In Belgium, in 6 months studying there, a lady working in my uni did not accept my ID because it was bound to be fake, as all Portuguese just cheat. In France I was once called a dirty Brazilian. I was there a total of 3 months.
 
我在英国生活的十年中，从来没有因为是外国人而被公然指责，也从来没有感觉到被歧视，一次都没有。
而我在比利时学习的六个月中，一位在我那个大学里工作的女士拒绝接受我的身份证，因为“它一定是假的”，因为所有的葡萄牙人都会作弊。在法国，我曾经被人说成“一个肮脏的巴西人”。我在那里总共待了三个月而已。
 
dont mean to say there isnt racism or xenophobia in the UK, but because of the Brexit outcome and a loud right wing media it gets a lot of bad rap vs. other countries
 
我不是说英国就不存在仇外或种族主义，但因为英国脱欧的结果以及声量很大的右翼媒体，相比于其他国家，英国收获了一大堆不好的名声。
 
I think it's because many countries avoid talking about their racism, so people don't think they're racist. We, on the other hand, talk about it perhaps too much, so people think racism is far more prent than it actually is. It's like knife crime, the media makes it seem like it's a common fear.
 
（回）我认为，这是因为有很多国家对他们的种族主义避而不谈，所以人们不认为他们是种族主义者。而我们谈论得或许是太多了，所以人们会认为这里的种族主义要比实际情况普遍得多。就像是持刀犯罪，被媒体鼓噪成了一种常见的恐惧事件。
 
Same in canada, far left wingers think they get free reign to call me a coloniser and far right French canadians tell me to go back to my own country
 
（回）在加拿大也是一样，极左认为他们可以很自由地把我说成殖民者，而极右的法裔加拿大人则会让我滚回自己的国家。
 
The EU’s own study stated that we are the least racist country, or close, on virtually every single obxtive metric used, everywhere has racism, but there are relatively few with less than us.
 
 
 
 （回）欧盟自己的研究指出，我们是种族主义最不严重（或接近最不严重）的国家，事实上在他们采用的几乎每一个客观指标上都是如此，每个国家都存在种族主义，但比我们少的国家相对较少。
（图解：近5年内感知到的种族主义骚扰发生率（%）；比率由高到低：芬兰、卢森堡、爱尔兰、德国、意大利、丹麦、瑞典、奥地利、法国、葡萄牙、英国、马耳他）
 
England has a long tradition of individualism and liberty being held as extremely important, and we've had democratic institutions longer than most countries in Europe have been unified countries. I think a large part of the lower levels of tolerance for bigotry in the UK is that we are steeped in and raised in a tradition that values liberty for all, rather than rights for certain groups.
 
（回）英国有着悠久的个人主义传统，把自由看得极为重要，我们拥有民主制度的时间比欧洲大部分国家成为统一国家的时间还要长。我认为，英国人对偏执行为的容忍度较低，很大程度上是因为：我们是在“珍视所有人的自由而不是特定群体的权利”这种传统中浸淫和成长起来的。
 
A Nigerian friend of mine worked in IT in Germany and his colleagues would make monkey noises when he walked in the room. When he brought it up with his manager, he was told that they were just having a laugh.
 
（回）我的一个尼日利亚朋友在德国从事IT业的工作，当他走进房间时，他的同事会发出猴子的声音。当他向他的经理提出这个问题时，他被告知，他们只是在找乐子。
 
I found Germany very difficult to rent property if you were anything other than white German. Maybe it was just the city i was based in though but landlords would instantly dismiss non-natives. A German friend of mine was looking at apartments and one potential landlady told her that she was so happy that a German was viewing because it had just been Croatians up until her. Fair Play to my friend, she called the landlady out and turned down the apartment even though it was pretty perfect.
I found Switzerland broadly similar.
 
我发现在德国，只要你不是德国白人，就很难租到房子。也许只是我所在的城市如此，但房东们会毫不迟疑地拒绝非本地人。我的一个德国朋友在公寓看房，那个可能成为她房东的女人告诉她说，她很高兴来看房的是德国人，因为在她之前来看房的一直都是克罗地亚人。我这个朋友是个好样的，她把女房东叫了出来，然后拒绝了这套公寓，尽管它相当完美。
我发现瑞士的情况也大差不差。
 
sabysabs
Lad culture on holiday.
 
度假时的少男文化。
 
I have a bit of a theory that because everyone second language is English: Dutch, Germans, Russians, whatever misbehaving abroad speaking English and the locals assume its always us. Not to say we aren't dicks abroad, but it isn't always the brits.
 
（回）我有个理论，因为所有人的第二语言都是英语。荷兰人、德国人、俄罗斯人，在海外行为不端的任何人说的都是英语，而当地人会认为总是我们干的。并不是说在国外的我们就不是混蛋，但犯事儿的并不总是英国人。
 
Definitely true of the Irish too who are just as bad as us but probably are assumed to be British
 
（回）也绝对适用于爱尔兰人，他们和我们一样坏，但他们可能会被看成英国人。
 
When I went to Ibiza, I spoke to the locals in Catalan. All of them said they prefer the English to other nations who go there.
 
（回）我去伊比沙岛的时候，和当地人用加泰罗尼亚语交谈。所有人都说他们更喜欢英国人，而不是去那里的其他国家的人。
 
Skiing in France is the same, the french staff say the french tourists are boring, moody tight arses, British have fun.
 
（回）在法国滑雪时也是一样，那个法国职员说，法国游客很无聊，脾气坏还很拘谨，英国人就很会享受时光。
 
xar-brin-0709
Nostalgia for the empire. I've seldom met a Brit who speaks fondly of the days we ruled India, Kenya, Malaysia etc.
On the other hand other West European countries seem more openly proud of their imperial past (French in Indochina, Italians in Ethiopia, Dutch in Indonesia etc).
 
对大英帝国的怀念。我很少会看到一个英国人以眷念的口吻说起我们统治印度、肯尼亚、马来西亚等国的时光。
而另一方面，其他西欧国家貌似会更加公开地对他们的帝国历史表示骄傲（法国人在印度支那，意大利人在埃塞俄比亚，荷兰人在印度尼西亚等等）。
 
A lot of Indians speak fondly of when we ran the Empire though.
 
（回）不过，有很多印度人都会心怀眷念地说起我们执掌帝国时的时光。
 
I’ve met a few older Indian people who spoke highly of the empire.
 
（回）我见过一些年长的印度人，他们对大英帝国的评价很高。
 
the nation to this day still does not like other countries commemorating Waterloo. Nevermind the fact that Napoleon could be considered a proto-facist for lack of a better term, to sully the nations greatest historical peak is considered unbeffiting.
 
（回）直至今日，法国都不喜欢其他国家纪念滑铁卢之战。何况拿破仑可以被看成一个原始形态的法西斯主义者（因为缺少更准确的术语），玷污这个国家最伟大的历史巅峰，会被认为是不合宜的。
 
hoots1
Going into Afghanistan, all the hate directed at the UK and US governments there were 42 countries involved in ISAF
 
在进入阿富汗后，所有的仇恨都指向了英国和美国政府，可是参与了国际安全援助部队的有42个国家呢。
 
Only three countries (U.K., U.S., and Australia) openly supported the invasion when it began.
 
（回）在开战伊始公开支持这场入侵的只有三个国家（英国、美国和澳大利亚）。
 
Donkey-Haughty
Looting historic artefacts from poor countries and putting them in British museums and not giving them back to the countries they have been looted from
 
掠夺穷国的文物，并将它们放置在英国的博物馆里，也不把它们还给被掠夺的国家。
 
I think the UK is fairly tame on artifact looting/acquiring. Germany has an ENTIRE greek temple - they tore it down, labelled all the stones, shipped it home and reassembled it back in Berlin
I know there has been a massive problem of an almost free for all looting of Asian artifacts, resulting in heritage being hemorrhaged across the world. Even among Asian countries this is a problem; there was a fashion in Japan of 'acquiring' ancient Chinese stuff
 
（回）我认为英国在掠夺/获得文物方面还是相当温和的。德国有一座完整的古希腊神庙，他们把它给大卸八块，给所有的石头贴上标签，运回国内，然后在柏林重新组装了起来。
我知道一直都存在一个严重的问题，即对亚洲文物的掠夺几乎是免费的，结果就是这些文物流失到了全世界。即使在亚洲国家中间，这也是一个问题；在日本，存在一种“收购”中国古物的风尚。
 
alittlebitsarcastic
Bad teeth.
Ps. I don’t agree.
 
一口烂牙。
但我是不同意的。
 
We actually have among the healthiest teeth in the world.
I believe our under-12s top the list for healthy teeth. Sometimes it switches with Holland.
Top 5 when it comes to adult teeth.
 
（回）我们英国人其实拥有全世界最健康的牙齿。
我记得，我们12岁以下儿童的牙齿健康度是高居榜首的。有时会和荷兰交替第一。
而成人的牙齿健康度，则能进前五。
 
OWeise
Don't mention the war.
But seriously, I've lived in the UK for the better part of a decade and I've barely had the war brought up to me.
I've known some folks from France, Belgium, NL, and, yes, Germany that are more obsessed with the war than most Brits.
 
不提及战争。
说真的，我在英国生活了七八年，几乎没有人向我提起过战争的事。
我认识一些来自法国、比利时、荷兰，对，还有德国的人，他们比大多数英国人都更痴迷于战争。
 
cyanplum
COVID variants. The UK just sequences them the most.
 
是新冠的变种。英国给它们作基因测序是最多的，就这么简单。
 
We have like half of the world's sequencing capabilities, so we are bound to identify more strains of anything
 
（回）我们拥有的测序能力差不多能占到全世界的一半，所以我们势必会识别出更多的菌株。
 
[dexed]
English being the biggest language in the world seems like the root cause of England being ridiculed the most
 
英语是全世界使用人数最多的语言，这貌似就是英国被嘲笑最多的根本原因。
 
Mister_Sith
Whenever something bad happens in the royal family, all the commentators come out calling foe their heads (some more literally than others).
You don't hear diddly about the rest of European monarchy
 
每当皇室出了什么丑事，所有的评论员都会跳出来要求剥夺其地位（当真程度各有不同）。
而欧洲其他君主制国家的消息，你是一点都听不到。
 
InterestingAd315
For being friends with America. We are singled out. Every time.
 
和美国交好。每次，我们都会被单独拎出来说。