美国人的“盎格鲁撒克逊”身份哪来的？因为在英格兰，这个词完全是历史背景，并不代表特定族群，美国人选择认同这个特定的历史群体显得很奇怪

mcmanus2099
It's used more like a political term. The Victorian historians of England had a hard on for Anglo Saxons. They looked back at pre-Norman England as some ideal political state with elected kings. Then the Normans came along & imposed feudal tyranny. In this telling the Victorians saw the next centuries as a struggle to reassert Anglo Saxon political principles of accountability & elections against Norman tyranny with big events like the Magna Carta as part of this tradition of Anglo Saxon resistance.
This theory was pretty much accepted across the board in England in the Victorian period & so infected the US who looked at their constitution as a follow up to the Magna Carta & so some frxd themselves as following that tradition. There is also a religious aspect, it's usually always referring to a Protestant.
As others have pointed out there is a racial element to it. Probably it was always there in the Victorian England telling but I don't think it's controversial to say some circles in the US it has been used to distinguish between other "white" immigrants that entered the US on mass such as Italians, Irish.
 
这个词的使用更偏向于政治术语。英国维多利亚时代的历史学家们对盎格鲁-撒克逊人情有独钟。他们回顾前诺曼时代的英国，认为那是理想的政治状态，那时候有民选的国王。然后诺曼人来了，他们强行实施封建暴政。在这一叙事中，维多利亚时代的人将诺曼时代视为斗争的世纪，用像《大宪章》这样的大事件作为盎格鲁-撒克逊人抵抗的传统，重申盎格鲁-撒克逊人的政治原则和选举，反对诺曼暴政。
在维多利亚时代的英国，这种理论被广泛的接受，也感染了美国，因为美国认为他们的宪法是《大宪章》的延续，所以有些人认为自己遵循了这一传统。还有宗教方面，通常指的是新教徒。
正如其他人指出的那样，里面有着种族因素。也许在维多利亚时代的英国，这种因素就一直存在。我认为，美国的某些圈子用它来区分其他来到美国的“白人”移民如意大利人、爱尔兰人，这是没有争议的。
 
lsspam
It's worth noting that this phenomenon was broadly present throughout Europe. As nation-states tried to more sharply define national identity during the 19th century they frequently pulled deep from their history to do so (to an extent of misrepresenting or even fictionalizing it). So the French for instance would more heavily pull on their "Gaelic" heritage and subsequent romanization despite the "Franks" themselves being essentially a more recent splinter from the main Germanic group.
In that context references to an "Anglo-Saxon" heritage was simultaneously a way to differentiate Britain from the mainland and their upper classes Norman heritage as well as reinforce English supremacy amongst their Celtic subjects (Ireland, Scotland, Wales).
 
有一点值得注意，这种现象广泛存在于整个欧洲。在19世纪，当民族国家试图更明确地定义民族身份时，他们经常从历史中挖掘(有时候会歪曲，甚至是虚构)。以法国人为例，他们倾向于继承“高卢人”的传承和随后的罗马化，尽管“法兰克人”基本上是来自日耳曼族群中分离出来的一个分支。
在这种背景下，提及“盎格鲁-撒克逊” 传承，既是将不列颠与欧洲大陆和诺曼人传承区分开来的一种方法，也是要巩固英格兰在他们的凯尔特臣民(爱尔兰、苏格兰、威尔士)中的优势地位。
 
devilthedankdawg
What’s funny is that the a lot Victorian nobles in America who idolizes the Anglo-Saxons were probably the descendants of the Normans who subjugated them.
 
有趣的地方在于，美国许多崇拜盎格鲁撒克逊人的维多利亚贵族很可能是征服了他们的诺曼人后代。
 
TheHumeHi
And calling yourself ethnically “English” might sound unpatriotic to an American considering the war of independence?
 
考虑到独立战争，对一个美国人来说，称自己的种族为“英格兰人”听起来可能不爱国？
 
dscDropper
Fun fact: Irish, Italian and Swedish immigrants to the US weren’t considered white at the time!
 
有趣的事实：在当时，爱尔兰、意大利和瑞典移民不被认为是白人!
 
falcon5768
Nor where the Germans or Slavs/Poles.
 
还有德国人或斯拉夫人、波兰人也一样。
 
dacoobob
these days it's mostly racists who identify as "Anglo-Saxon." they're low-key saying they're Aryan
 
如今，认同“盎格鲁撒克逊”的大多种族主义者都低调地说自己是雅利安人。
 
PaxNova
Which is another misnomered one. Aryans came from the Indian subcontinent, but everyone now thinks of them as blonde Germans.
 
这是个用词不当的问题。雅利安人来自印度次大陆，但如今所有人都认为他们是金发的德国人。
 
mcflyOS
It's not a misnomer the nazis literally believed the aryans of the indian subcontinent were ancient nords.
 
没有用词不当，纳粹确实认为印度次大陆的雅利安人是古代的诺德人。
 
ValyrianJedi
I really don't think thats particularly accurate. W.A.S.P. is a pretty common term, and plenty of people consider themselves Anglo-Saxon just because thats the term they've always heard used to describe the group they belong to, and don't have any racist subtext to using it at all.
 
我并不认为这些说法是准确的。W.A.S.P.【即White Anglo-Saxon Protestant，白人盎格鲁-撒克逊新教徒，原义是指美国的新教上流社会】是一个相当常见的词，很多人之所以认为自己是盎格鲁撒克逊人，是因为他们一直听到这个词用被来形容他们所属的群体，根本没有任何种族主义的含义。
 
meerkatx
Anglo-Saxon has been co-opted by the racist and the political right which are ultimately becoming one in the same in the U.S.
 
盎格鲁撒克逊被种族主义者和政治右翼势力所同化，最终，它们在美国被统一到了一起。
 
watabadidea
I mean, that's just not true. The fact that many racists identify as Anglo-Saxon isn't the same as most people that identify as Anglo-Saxon being racists.
 
我认为这种说法不对。许多种族主义者认同盎格鲁撒克逊的事实并不代表很多认同盎格鲁撒克逊的人就是种族主义者。
 
JohnGabin
Victoria was of the house of Hanover, no ? Angles and Saxons were Germanic tribes. The biggest ethnical group of the USA, correct me if I'm wrong are the germans. Looks like an attempt from those germans to eradicate the Celtic, scandinavian or french heritage of the UK.
 
维多利亚是汉诺威家族的人，不是吗？盎格鲁人和撒克逊人都属于日耳曼部落。美国最大的族群是德国人吧，如果我说错了请纠正我。这看起来像是那些德国人想要消灭凯尔特人、斯堪的纳维亚人或法国人在英国的传承。
 
jrhooo
In America (at least in my experience) the simple idea of "Anglo Saxon" isn't really what people identify with.
Americans who would claim an identity in that vein tend to draw stronger ties to maybe "English" heritage, but more so they tend to call attention to "original colonial" ties.
But, as the Mcmanus pointed out above, "Protestant" comes into play too, though ironically, actually being Protestant doesn't have much to do with it (you could be Baptist, or non-denominational, or completely non-religious, doesn't matter). What matters is that its just part of the descxtor of that "Original colonist, pilgrim profile."
And thus the term"WASP" (n) or "WASPy" (adj) an arguably derisive or pejorative acronym for "white, Anglo Saxon, Protestant" that is really meant to express that someone/someone's family is the white, with no notable aspect of minority or immigrant flavor to them, and often the term is meant to carry a connotation of some "privileged" status. I.e., they come from "the right kind" of upper middle class suburban family and are treated as such.
 
在美国，人们并不是真的认同“盎格鲁-撒克逊”这个简单的概念，至少以我的经验来看是这样。
会主张一种身份的美国人，他们倾向于联系到“英格兰人”传承，但更倾向于唤起人们对“原始殖民”联系的关注。
但是，正如网友Mcmanus在上面指出的，“新教”也有着影响，尽管具有讽刺意味的是，实际上成为新教徒与它没有多大关系（你可以是浸信会的，或者非宗派的，或者完全没有宗教，都无所谓）。重要的是，它描述了“原始殖民者，朝圣者”的一部分。
因此，“WASP”（名词）和“WASPy”（形容词）可以说是“白人、盎格鲁撒克逊人、新教徒” 的嘲讽或贬义的首字母缩略，真正的意思是表达某人或某人的家族是白人，没有明显的少数民族外表，而且这个词通常意味着带有某种“特权”地位的内涵。也就是说，他们是来自中产阶级上层家族，并有着对等的待遇。
 
HammerOfTheMozz
I don’t think it has as much to do with actual ethnic heritage as it did with class and racial struggles between established, ethnically English persons in places like Boston and New York during the waves of immigration in the 19th and early 20th centuries. WASP became a pejorative for the image of wealthy, ascot-wearing people who were legacies at Ivy League universities because their families built their wealth in the 1830s and summered in posh places while the lower classes worked in factories.
 
我认为这与种族传承没有太大关系，而是与19 世纪到 20 世纪早期移民潮中波士顿、纽约等地的老牌英国人之间的阶级、种族斗争有关。WASP是常春藤盟校出身、打着领结、富人形象的贬损，因为他们的家族在1830年代积累了财富，在豪华的地方避暑，而下层阶级则在工厂里工作。
 
dan_con
I've literally never heard anyone self identity as an Anglo-Saxon or as a WASP. It's more something people say about other people than something people say about themselves. At least that's been the case for the past 50 years.
 
我真的从来没有听说过有人自称为盎格鲁-撒克逊人或WASP。这更像是对他人的评价，而不是说自己。至少在过去的50年是这样的。
 
calmlaundry
Exactly what I was thinking. I've never met anyone who identified this way growing up in a 98% 'white' area. I think this is more often something some people are accused of identifying as, along with those implications.
 
我也这么觉得。我从来没有见过在98%白人社区长大的人会这么自称。我认为这通常是用来指责别人的。
 
5050Clown
I have. In America people just think it means white, but the right kind of white.
Most recent was a dude I worked with, very dark skinned, family was from Mexico but he insisted that he was "Spanish". He referred to himself as "Anglo Saxon" to me a few times.
When I asked him "I thought you were Spanish" he said "Spanish people can be white". Dude looked like a cross between a Pima Indian who spent his days in the sun and a Berber who spent his days in the sun. This is America.
 
我见过。在美国，人们认为它意味着白人，但是是对应的白人。
最近有个和我一起工作的家伙，皮肤很黑，家庭来自墨西哥，但他坚持说他是“西班牙人”。有几次，他对我说自己是盎格鲁-撒克逊人。
当我问他“我以为你是西班牙人？”时，他说“西班牙人也可以是白人”。这家伙看起来就像一个整天晒太阳的皮马印第安人和柏柏尔人的结合体。这就是美国。
 
Kered13
I've never seen someone self-identify as ethnically Anglo-Saxon, however I have seen people talk (positively) about Anglo-Saxon heritage, culture, values, and things like that.
 
我从来没有见过有人自认为是盎格鲁-撒克逊人，但我却看到人们积极地谈论盎格鲁-撒克逊的传承、文化、价值观之类的东西。
 
escadian2
American here: I have never in my 74 years Ever heard anyone refer to themselves as anglo saxon.
 
我是美国人， 74年来，我从未听过有人自称盎格鲁撒克逊人。
 
mrGeaRbOx
You seriously haven't heard the term WASP? That's from your generation!
 
你真的没有听过WASP这个词？就是你们这代人说出来的！
 
INITMalcanis
It was more of a 19th Century/Early 20th Century English thing to talk about "Anglo-Saxons". You can see plenty of references to it in the literature of the time.
It disappeared after WW II when the whole racial superiority thing suddenly got unfashionable.
 
谈论“盎格鲁-撒克逊” 更像是19世纪或20世纪早期的英国事物。你可以在当时的文献中看到很多参考资料。
二战后，当种族优越感变得不流行时，它就消失了。
 
1000000CHF
French-speakers often use « Anglo-Saxon » to mean the English-speaking world in general. They are quite surprised when I explain that it’s a racial term. I remember laughing when I saw Colin Powell (an Afro-American general during the Gulf war) being described as Anglo-Saxon on French TV.
 
说法语的人经常使用“盎格鲁撒克逊” 来指代英语世界。当我向他们解释这是一个种族术语时，他们很惊讶。我记得，当我在法国电视上看到科林·鲍威尔(海湾战争期间的一位非裔美国将军) 被描述为盎格鲁-撒克逊人时，我笑了。
 
dvphimself
Angles and Saxons were distinct peoples. They invasions you mentioned didn't happen simultaneously, and did not impact each part of Britain equally. Not all modern Britons are a mix of all above, like.
 
盎格鲁人和撒克逊人是完全不同的民族。他们的入侵并不是同时发生的，也没有对英国的所有地区产生同等影响。并不是所有的现代英国人都是这两个民族的混血。
 
devilthedankdawg
Yeah that always struck me as a funny two groups to mix. They came at the same time, but were very different. The Saxons were west Germanic, larger in population and more hierarchical, and the Angles were Suebic, more rural, remote, and “Primitive”. They kinda merged later, but you’re right- They’re not the same.
 
是的，我总觉得这两个种族混在一起很有趣。他们同时到来，但是区别很大。撒克逊人是西日耳曼人，人口较多，等级森严；而盎格鲁人是苏维比人，更农村、偏远和“原始”。它们后来合并了，但你说得对，他们不一样。