为什么会有这么多的球迷反对欧洲超级联赛？

Jonathan Lynch
, lives in Cork, Ireland
Answered April 23
In February 1992 the teams in the First Division of the Football League in England broke away to form the Premier League after securing £305 million in match broadcast rights from Sky. Under the Football league system all money was distributed between all clubs across all divisions. The big five clubs were the main drivers behind the move in order to secure money from Sky to be contained to clubs in just one league. The likelihood of the top five teams in the top league facing relegation was remote and over the past 30 years none of them have been relegated from the “Premier” league. This was described as being a “Super” league at the time but the prospect of relegation (i.e. a penalty for poor performance) was a real risk for every club. The reason why the clubs were reluctantly allowed to breakaway was that teams remaining in the lower Football League divisions could get promotion to this elite league. The same idea was being touted for a European Super League comprising of the biggest clubs in Europe to break away from UEFA’s Champions League competition. Again division of lucrative TV broadcast money was the motivating factor. However, the crucial difference between the two is that the Premier League retained the promotion/relegation system whereas the European Super League was to be a closed shop with no promotion or relegation. That is the fatal flaw and why football fans are against it. It is the same franchise type model used for US sports i.e. a team (or franchise) could lose every game but they would still be in the league for the following season. If the Premier League formation back in 1992 was the same such closed shop then all of those breakaway clubs would still be in the Premier League for every subsequent season. The likes of Oldham Athletic and Nottingham Forrest, clubs which were part of the inaugural season would never have been relegated. They could lose 38 games out of 38 in the 2020/21 Season but their place would be secure for next season. There is thus no risk to actually losing games given the guarantee of their place in an elite, closed system with their slice of the broadcast income also guaranteed.

1992年2月，英格兰足球联赛甲级联赛的球队在从天空电视台获得3.05亿英镑的比赛转播权后脱离出来，成立了英超联赛。在足球联盟系统下，所有的钱都在所有分区的所有俱乐部之间分配。五大俱乐部是此举背后的主要驱动力，以确保从天空公司获得的资金只包含在一个联赛的俱乐部中。顶级联赛中的前五名球队面临降级的可能性很小，在过去的30年里，他们之中没有任何一支球队从"英超"联赛中降级。这在当时被描述为"超级"联赛，但降级的前景（即表现不佳的惩罚）对每个俱乐部来说都是真正的风险。而这些俱乐部被勉强允许脱离原甲级联赛体系的原因是，留在低级别的足球联赛中的球队是有机会晋升到这个精英联赛的。同样的想法被吹捧为由欧洲最大的俱乐部组成的欧洲超级联赛，以脱离欧足联的冠军联赛（欧冠）的比赛。利润丰厚的电视转播费的划分也是激励因素。 然而，两者之间的关键区别是，英超联赛保留了升级/降级制度，而欧洲超级联赛将是一个没有升级或降级的封闭式联赛。这就是致命的缺陷，也是球迷反对的原因。 这与美国体育界使用的特许经营模式相同，即一支球队（或特许经营）可能会输掉每场比赛，但他们在下个赛季仍然会在联赛中。如果1992年英超联赛的形成也是这样的封闭式联赛，那么所有这些分离出来的俱乐部在随后的每个赛季仍然会在英超联赛中。像奥尔德姆竞技和诺丁汉森林这样的俱乐部，作为首届英超赛季的一部分，是不会被降级的。他们可以在2020/21赛季输掉38场比赛，但他们的位置将在下赛季得到保障。因此，鉴于他们在一个精英的封闭系统中的位置得到保证，他们的广播收入也得到保证，实际上输掉比赛也就没有什么风险了。

Clubs such as Burnley, Brighton Hove Albion or Fulham would never be able to reach the elite league they currently compete in. Why get better, why seek improvement if their is a ceiling to that development as a club? Their supporters, going back decades, would never get to see the club they follow play the best English teams outside of getting drawn against them in the FA Cup. As such, they could never become an elite club like Manchester United. That is why so many are against the idea of the closed shop system which was proposed under the European Super League. Once you’re in, then you’re in forever. The likes of Real Madrid’s President Florentino Perez has argued that the move would be protecting Football i.e. that elite clubs such as Real Madrid have no business playing minnows from, say, the Belgian league, and that Real, and all football fans, would be better served watching Real play the likes of Bayern Munich et al. Perez, in a self-absorbed and arrogantly self serving attitude, misses the actual point which is that Football is about that minnow club playing against an elite one, of their supporters watching the prospect of “their” club beating a stalwart European behemoth. Thirty years ago our local team Cork City held Bayern Munich to a 1–1 draw. It was box office for football fans here. That’s what the game is about.

像伯恩利、布莱顿或富勒姆这样的俱乐部也将永远无法升上他们目前所处的精英联赛。如果作为一个俱乐部，他们的发展是有上限的，为什么要变得更好，为什么要寻求改进？他们的支持者，数十年来，除了在足总杯中能被抽中与英国最好的球队交手外，永远无法看到他们所追随的俱乐部有上升空间。因此，他们永远不可能成为像曼联这样的精英俱乐部。这就是为什么这么多人反对欧洲超级联赛下提出的封闭式商店系统的想法。一旦你进入了，那么你就永远在里面了。皇马主席弗洛伦蒂诺-佩雷斯认为，此举是在保护足球，也就是说，像比利时联赛的小球队没有资格跟皇马这样的精英俱乐部比赛，而皇马和所有的足球迷，最好是看皇马与拜仁慕尼黑等球队比赛。佩雷斯，以一种自我陶醉和傲慢的自我服务的态度，错过了真正的重点，那就是足球是关于小鱼俱乐部与精英俱乐部的比赛，他们的支持者看着"他们"的俱乐部有着击败一个强大的欧洲巨兽的前景。 30年前，我们当地的科克城队以1比1的比分逼平了拜仁慕尼黑队。这对这里的足球迷来说是票房。这就是比赛的意义所在。

Under the European Super League that would never happen. Cork City would never come within an arse’s roar of the likes of Bayern Munich. To illustrate this, a tweet was put forth by another Irish club, Bray Wanderers where they poked fun at their lowly status by mockingly “confirming” that they wouldn’t be part of the ESL. Football fans know that the actual business end of elite European Club football is the knockout stages of the Champions League. They are typically the most exciting games every year and the clubs which looked to breakaway are typically present at that stage of the competition. It’s a sign that Spring is here when the Champions League knockout games occur. We’re likely to then see Real play Bayern but at least the minnow clubs who earned their right to compete will retain the ability to do so and potentially progress. It’s sport, it’s not an exhibition.

在欧洲超级联赛下，这永远不会发生。科克城将永远不会接近拜仁慕尼黑这样的球队。为了说明这一点，另一家爱尔兰俱乐部布雷流浪者发了一条推特，在这条推里他们自嘲自己的地位低下，嘲弄地"确认"他们不会成为欧洲超级联赛的一部分。足球迷们知道，欧洲精英俱乐部足球的实际业务是欧洲冠军联赛的淘汰赛阶段。它们通常是每年最激动人心的比赛，那些期待突围的俱乐部通常会出现在这个阶段的比赛中。当欧洲冠军联赛的淘汰赛发生时，这是一个春天到来的标志。我们可能会看到皇家马德里对阵拜仁，但至少那些小俱乐部将保留通过竞争能达到这一阶段的权利，并有可能取得真正的进展。这就是体育，而不是一场秀。

Aram Hachadurian
, lives in France
It’s a stupid idea and shows what football has become. Money. The “big” clubs do not want to share their money with anyone else. In the current situation, any revenue a league generates from the sponsors, television etc. it’s divided among all the clubs. Of course, the biggest and the most successful ones already get a much higher slice, but apparently it’s not enough.
There are so many wrongs with this I don’t know where to begin:
People do love watching the top teams of Europe play against each other in the Champions League but when they play against each other every damn week, it’s going to get repetitive and people will lose their interest. That’s the exacct same reason we do not have world cup every year.
It’s a big “fuck you” to all the other clubs. If the big clubs allow it, the other clubs still have a chance to compete, they can still relegate though, but the so-called “core teams” do not relegate at all for at least 20 years. It betrays the nature of competition. Why would I want to play in a league where some of the teams have a special status?

这是一个愚蠢的想法，表明足球已经变成了什么。钱。“大”俱乐部不愿意与其他人分享他们的钱。在目前的情况下，一个联赛从赞助商、电视等方面产生的任何收入都会被联赛里所有俱乐部分享。当然，最大和最成功的俱乐部已经得到了更多的份额，但他们显然认为这还不够。
这个做法有很多错误，我都不知道从何说起了。
1.人们确实喜欢看欧洲顶级球队在欧洲冠军联赛中的对决，但当他们每周都互相比赛时，这将变得重复，人们将失去兴趣。这也是我们没有每年举办世界杯的相同原因。
2.这是对所有其他俱乐部的一个大大的"滚你们的"。如果大俱乐部允许，其他俱乐部仍然有机会竞争，虽然他们仍然可能会降级，但所谓的"核心球队"至少在20年内根本不会降级。这背叛了竞争的本质。我为什么要在一个部分球队有特殊地位的联赛中比赛？

It kills the competition for the all the other teams. There’s no guarantee that the founder teams will grant you the honor of playing with them, even if you have a better team than they have. It effectively makes any investment from smaller clubs incredibly risky. The smaller clubs always have more risks when it comes to signing new players. But if it pays off and you are qualified to play in the Champions League, you get a return from your investment, now it’s basically up to the big guys.
I mean, that’s the problem. There’s a reason why local leagues and the Champions League are not regulated by the clubs themselves. Why should some clubs have more privileges than the others? Who can guarantee that the referees will not favor them in any way?
My team may get a chance to play in this league of theirs perhaps once or twice. But I will never watch this shit ever. If you are a football fan from countries like Sweden, Greece, Poland or Russia well, tough luck your teams will probably never be deemed worthy enough to play in this super league.
EDIT: Manchester United, Milan, Arsenal could not even qualify for the Champions League this season, Inter failed to get pass the group stages and ended up at the bottom of its group, Juventus and Atletico Madrid got knocked out and could not even reach the quarter finals. But you are telling me that they get a free pass every season? LOL

3.它扼杀了所有其他球队的竞争。即使你有一支比他们更好的球队，也不能保证创始球队会给予你与他们一起比赛的荣誉。它有效地使来自小俱乐部的任何投资都具有难以置信的风险。当涉及到签署新球员时，小俱乐部总是有更多的风险。但是，如果它得到了回报，你有资格参加欧洲冠军联赛，你就能从你的投资中得到回报，但现在基本上都是由这些“大人物”决定的了。
4.我觉得这些就是问题所在。地方联赛和欧洲冠军联赛不由俱乐部自己调控是有原因的。为什么有些俱乐部要比其他俱乐部有更多的特权？谁能保证裁判不会以任何方式偏袒他们？
我的球队可能会有机会参加他们的这个联赛，也许一次或两次。但我永远不会看这种狗屎。如果你是来自瑞典、希腊、波兰或俄罗斯等国家的足球迷，那么你们运气不好，你的球队可能永远不会被认为有资格参加这个超级联赛。
编辑：曼联、米兰、阿森纳甚至无法获得本赛季欧洲冠军联赛的资格，国米未能通过小组赛，最终在小组中垫底，尤文图斯和马德里竞技被淘汰，甚至无法进入四分之一决赛。但你告诉我，他们以后每个赛季都能获得免费通行证？笑死。

Mohamed Emara
It's a shameless coup that threatens football as we know it.

如我们所知，这是一场威胁着足球本质的无耻政变。

Aram Hachadurian
Exactly!
But I think this is still going to be a failure. I don’t think the players, coaches and the fans want this. This is just an attempt to turn football into a corporate cash grab. That’s what happens when you leave the clubs to people like Florentino Perez.

没错!
我认为它将会走向失败。我不认为球员、教练和球迷想要这样的东西。这只是一个将足球变成企业抢钱的尝试。这就是当你把俱乐部交给弗洛伦蒂诺-佩雷斯（皇家马德里主席）这样的人时所发生的事情。

Mohamed Emara
Yeah I heard that Kolpp is against the idea and I'm sure others share his views.
Ahh Perez, what a greedy jerk!

是的，我听说克洛普（利物浦主教练）反对这个想法，我相信其他人也同意他的观点。
啊，佩雷斯，真是个贪婪的混蛋啊！

Lee Sadler
PSG have already said they are not joining which I completely applaud them for
Bayern Munich and Dortmund said they are not joining
Porto said they rejected the invitation
I applaud all those teams

巴黎圣日耳曼已经表示，他们不会加入，我为他们鼓掌致意
拜仁慕尼黑和多特蒙德表示，他们不会加入
波尔图说，他们拒绝了这次邀请
我为所有这些球队鼓掌

Srikar Sharma
, lives in Visakhapatnam, Andhra Pradesh, Hindustan
Answered April 20
Because it will destroy football!
I will explain.
First of all what is this European Super League?
Its a closed league in which so called “big clubs" will participate.
As of now, 12 clubs have joined the Super league.

因为它将摧毁足球!
我将解释一下。
首先，这个欧洲超级联赛是什么？
它是一个封闭的联赛，只有所谓的"大俱乐部"将参与其中。
截至目前，已有12家俱乐部加入超级联赛。

They are:
Real Madrid
Barcelona
Atletico Madrid
Liverpool
Manchester United
Manchester City
Arsenal
Tottenham (lol)
Chelsea
Juventus
Inter
Milan
So why is it bad?

他们是
1.皇家马德里
2.巴塞罗那
3.马德里竞技
4.利物浦
5.曼联
6.曼城
7.阿森纳
8.托特纳姆热刺（笑）。
9.切尔西
10.尤文图斯
11.国际米兰
12.AC米兰
那么为什么这样做不好呢？

▪ Because these are all big teams and only they compete against each other, not the other clubs. Football is a beautiful game, because anything can happen in it. Any miracle can happen. There is always a chance of smaller teams doing miracles and upsetting the big teams. Remember how Leicester made the impossible, by winning the Premier league in 2015/16 season? Remember how Roma made a comeback against Barcelona in 2018 in the champions league? Remember how Villa trashed Liverpool 7-2 this season? This won't happen anymore because of the Super League.
▪ Many small clubs would always want to grow stronger, become powerful and beat the big teams. This won't be possible anymore.
▪Big games wont be big games anymore . The hype that we have for games like Barcelona vs Juventus, Liverpool vs Real Madrid will be no more. Because they will be happening every season.

因为这些都是大球队，只有他们互相竞争，再也没有其他俱乐部。足球是一项美丽的比赛，因为任何事情都可以在其中发生。任何奇迹都可能发生。小球队总是有机会创造奇迹，颠覆大球队。还记得莱斯特是如何创造不可能，在2015/16赛季赢得英超联赛的吗？还记得罗马是如何在2018年的冠军联赛中对巴塞罗那实现逆转的吗？还记得本赛季维拉是如何以7-2的比分捣毁利物浦的吗？由于超级联赛的存在，这种情况不会再发生了。
▪ 许多小俱乐部总是想变得更强，变得强大，打败大球队。但这已经不可能了。
大比赛不再是大比赛了。我们像现在这样对巴萨对尤文图斯、利物浦对皇马这样的比赛的炒作将不复存在。因为它们每个赛季都会发生很多次。

▪ FIFA and UEFA have said that the players who will play in the Super League will be banned from international competitions. We would be watching international tournaments without many big names.
▪ These “big clubs" won't be playing in any of the domestic leagues, UCL, UEL. So alot of fans would stop watching them, which means less revenue for them.
▪This will show a very bad effect on the leagues and the other teams.
▪ Depression rates may increase, as the loyal fans of these big clubs, would feel betrayed by them as they chose money over the fans. Suicide rates may increase too, as some people , who have no interest in life, live only for football.
▪ Overall, its catastrophic for football.
The greed of these rich businessmen is destroying the beautiful sport.
Let's save our beautiful sport from these greedy people. Say no to Super League!

国际足联和欧足联已经说过，参加超级联赛的球员将被禁止参加国际比赛。我们将在没有很多大牌的情况下观看国际比赛。
这些"大俱乐部"不会参加任何国内联赛，UCL，UEL。所以很多球迷会停止观看他们的比赛，这意味着他们的收入减少。
这将对联赛和其他球队产生非常不好的影响。
抑郁率可能会增加，因为这些大俱乐部的忠实球迷会觉得被他们出卖了，因为他们选择了金钱而不是球迷。自杀率也可能增加，因为有些人对生活毫无兴趣，只为足球而活。
总的来说，这对足球是灾难性的。
这些富商的贪婪正在毁掉这项美丽的运动。
让我们从这些贪婪的人手中拯救我们美丽的运动。对超级联赛说不!

Chris Hall
, studied at THE UNIVERSITY OF LONDON
Answered April 21
Let me say first of all that we now know that the European Super League has died.
Why?
Because it was based on the USA system of greed over sport.
That was never going to be accepted in the UK and everyone here is pleased that the proposal has totally failed.
In fact, the interesting thing is that there was no one here who would actually try to support the idea.
This is because American professional sports lack relegation-promotion and have revenue sharing, bad teams are insulated from the most severe repercussions, financially and competitively. If not, the Chicago Cubs would have been relegated long ago.
So a Super League-like power grab probably made sense to the American owners. Who needs accountability when there’s money to be made?
But soccer in Europe is more than a sport, it's an intrinsic part of society.
In short: the fans in the UK have stopped this greed-motivated attempt to destroy football.
But one good thing will come out of it: measures will now be put in place to ensure that this sort of greedy dealing can never be proposed again.
Americans such as Kroenke, Henry and the Glazers might know that, but they can never truly understand it. It's no wonder they felt the need to create their own system, and it's no wonder that it failed so spectacularly.

在开始之前，我们现在知道，欧洲超级联赛已经死亡。（4月19日12支俱乐部共同提出组建超级联赛，4月21日6支英超球队退出超级联赛，超级联赛名存实亡）
为什么？
因为它是建立在美国的贪婪体系之上的运动。
这在英国是永远不会被接受的，这里的每个人都很高兴这个提议完全失败了。
事实上，有趣的是，这里没有人真正尝试支持这个想法。
这是因为美国的职业体育缺乏降级晋级，并且有收入分享，不好的球队在经济上和竞争上都与最严重的影响绝缘。否则，芝加哥小熊队早就被降级了。
因此，对美国金主来说，类似超级联赛的权力掠夺可能是有意义的。有钱可赚，谁还需要问责？
但足球在欧洲不仅仅是一项运动，它是社会的内在组成部分。
简而言之：英国的球迷已经阻止了这种以贪婪为动机的摧毁足球的企图。
但有一件好事会产生：现在将制定措施，确保这种贪婪的交易再也无法提出。
克伦克、亨利和格雷泽家族等美国人可能知道这一点，但他们永远无法真正理解这一点。难怪他们觉得有必要创建自己的新联赛体系，也难怪它失败得如此迅速惊人。

Tom Fuzery
, lives in London
Answered April 21
Adding a different point to the many smart comments…
Some of these clubs are indeed big and with a twisted argument they might say they have grown out their leagues. Let’s park it that they have grown massive on the foundation of their fans wanting them to win their leagues. Hard to swallow but let’s try. So on that base, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man Utd, Juventus and maybe Liverpool may have the merit to aim higher. Let’s add AC Milan to the list because of their history.
But the rest? Arsenal? They haven’t made it to the top 4 and thus qualified for the UCL since 2016. Man City? Before the sheiks arrived that was a nice, mediocre local club. Anything but big. Yep, recently they had domestic success, but in Europe? Nothing. But the one that really sticks out for me is Spurs! Really??? They have won the English league only twice, last time 60 years ago. They were in the top 4 maybe five or six times in the last 30 years… They had 2 UEFA Cups 40–50 years ago… okay, nice… But that’s it. Still they are the big club, and not Bayern, Ajax, Benfica, Celtic, Porto, PSV Eindhoven, Dortmund, Feyenoord, Seville or the others… There is only one thing qualifies clubs to be “big clubs”. Revenue in the last few years… And that’s why this whole thing stinks
Then why to pretend that it’s about sports? Better invite LA Galaxy or Shanghai Port straight away. The market potential might be even bigger…

在许多聪明的评论中加入一个不同的观点......
这些俱乐部中的一些确实很大，用一个扭曲的说法，他们可能会说他们已经发展到他们的联赛舞台已经不够大、容不下他们了。让我们假设他们在本地联赛已经取得了巨大的成功，他们的球迷希望他们组建自己的联赛。虽然这很扯，但我们还是试着去理解看看。因此，在这个基础上，皇家马德里、巴塞罗那、曼联、尤文图斯，也许还有利物浦，可能产生了更高的目标。让我们把AC米兰加入到这个名单中，因为他们辉煌的历史。
但是其他的呢？阿森纳？自2016年以来，他们还没有进入过前四名，因此没有资格参加欧冠。曼城？在酋长到来之前，这是一个不错的、平庸的地方俱乐部。任何东西都算不上大。是的，最近他们在国内取得了成功，但在欧洲？什么都没有。但是，真正让我印象深刻的是热刺。认真的吗？他们只赢得过两次英格兰联赛冠军，上一次是在60年前。在过去的30年里，他们可能有五到六次进入前四名......他们在40-50年前有过两个欧洲奖杯......好吧，不错......但仅此而已。他们虽然仍然是大俱乐部，但不是拜仁、阿贾克斯、本菲卡、凯尔特人、波尔图、埃因霍温、多特蒙德、费耶诺德、塞维利亚或其他......现在只有一件事能让俱乐部成为"大俱乐部"。那就是过去几年的收入......这就是为什么这整个事情都很糟糕。
那为什么要假装这是关于体育的？最好直接邀请洛杉矶银河或上海上港来参加算了。市场潜力可能会更大...

Declan Edwards
, football fan and volunteer
Answered April 25
Why are so many football fans against the European Super League?
Because it’s a stupid idea, and goes completely against everything football has been up to so far.
Well, not everything. It’s about money, which is what top flight football has been about for decades now.
Football is a meritocracy, and you need to fight to make your way to the top and stay there. The ESL, a closed shop, would remove that.
With a closed shop, you’d have had no Leicester City in 2015, or Nottingham Forest in 1978, or Wimbledon in the 1980s and 1990s.
The MLS is a closed shop, as it has been since the start. There’s no relegation from it, so what incentive is there for a team that starts poorly, and is out of title contention, to fight the rest of the season? That’s one reason we look down on the MLS and tut.
Playing the biggest clubs from the other big nations is supposed to be an occasional treat, something to look forward to. Like Christmas. If it happened every week, it wouldn’t be as special and you wouldn’t be as excited about it after a while.
And it isn’t just the fans. Clubs not involved, players, managers, ex-players, pundits, and governments were all against it too.
Still, it took our attention away from VAR for a couple of days.

为什么这么多足球迷反对欧洲超级联赛？
因为这是一个愚蠢的想法，而且完全违背了足球迄今为止所做的一切。
好吧，不是一切。它是关于钱的，这也是几十年来顶级足球一直在做的事情。
足球是一种择优录取的制度，你需要通过斗争来达到顶峰，并留在那里。而ESL，一个封闭的商店，将消除这一点。
有了一个封闭的商店（closed shop：只雇佣特定人员的商店），你就不会再有2015年的莱斯特城，或1978年的诺丁汉森林，或1980年代和1990年代的温布尔登。
MLS（美职联）是一个封闭的商店，因为它从一开始就是这样。它没有降级，所以有什么动力让一支开局不佳、脱离冠军争夺的球队在剩下的赛季中战斗呢？这就是我们看不起MLS和tut的原因之一。
与其他大国的最大俱乐部比赛应该是一种偶尔的享受，是值得期待的事情。就像圣诞节。如果它每周都发生，它就不会那么特别，过了一段时间，你就不会对它感到兴奋。
而且，这不仅仅是球迷的事。没有参与的俱乐部、球员、经理、前球员、专家学者和政府也都反对它。
不过，它还是把我们的注意力从VAR的争议上移开了几天。