外国人对比中国剑和欧洲迅捷剑【下】
Sword Banter: The Chinese Jian and Comparison to the Rapier
译文简介
油管网友：我只是想说，作为一个非汉族中国人，我们对牛尾刀和九环刀印象深刻。对剑没啥印象。从泰国到蒙古等亚洲各地都可以找到它们的灵感。至于在穿盔甲的战争中，剑肯定会输给刀的。
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Sword Banter: The Chinese Jian and Comparison to the Rapier
外国人对比中国剑和欧洲迅捷剑
外国人对比中国剑和欧洲迅捷剑
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@이치고 I don''''t know how many times I must say this, but I will say this one more time. I don''''t deny that jians were ever used along with shield. when they are used as standard military sidearm, they were used along with shield. But the problem is, jian spent most of the time in history used as civilian sidearm, not military sidearm (or perhaps they are equal, but my point still stands). Hence, the statement "most jians were used with shield" is not true.
@이치고 我不知道我得说多少次，但我再说一次。我不否认剑是和盾牌一起使用过。当它们被用作标准的军用武器时，它们是和盾牌一起使用的。但问题是，中国剑在历史上大部分时间都是作为平民武器使用的，而不是作为军事武器使用的（或许他们是相同的，但我的观点仍然成立）。因此，“绝大多数中国剑士都搭配盾牌使用”的说法是不正确的。
Christian Albert Jahns again, wikipedia my guy. That website is shady. Also, have you even checked out the video that other guy uploaded? Misconceptions about han chinese swords? Yeah, the number of jians outnumbered the dao, don’t talk shit white cuck. Trying to have an appeal to authority using a wikipedia article smh
Christian Albert Jahns 再说一遍，维基百科，我的伙计。那个网站很可疑。还有，你看过别人上传的视频了吗？对中国汉剑的误解？是啊，剑的数量比刀还多，别TM胡说八道了。利用维基百科的一篇文章就在呼吁权威那样，震惊我了。
@이치고 did you just read about what you''''ve write? The misconception is only applied to Han dynasty and Three Kingdoms era. We are talking about jian in general Chinese history.
I can''''t see why you don''''t accept CITED source from wikipedia but you accept uncited source from blogspot
@이치고 你读过你写的东西了吗？这种误解只适用于汉代和三国时期。我们说的是整个中国历史上的剑。
我不明白为什么你不接受来自有引用的维基百科的来源，却接受来自blogspot的没引用的来源。
@이치고 here I tell you. If you still disagree with the wikipedia, open the page, open the book the page cites from, and criticise that book. That way you are far more convincing in your argument.
Not even once you counter my argument. You just cannot accept cited page of wikipedia but you accept uncited article from blogspot. Calling wikipedia shady even when your source is even more shady
@이치고 我告诉你。如果你仍然不同意维基百科，那就打开页面，打开页面引用的那本书，然后批评那本书。这样你的论点就更有说服力了。
你一次都没有反驳我的论点。你不能接受维基百科的引用页面，但你可以接受blogspot上没有引用的文章。即使你的资料来源更加可疑，你仍然称维基百科为可疑的。
Christian Albert Jahns because i don’t care and i don’t look for arguements. Youre so obsessed with being right, the article i posted and that other guy lixed is all we need to show you :). Youre also specifically referring to the three kingdoms period, we’re talking about overrall throughout china so jokes on you my guy.
Christian Albert Jahns 因为我不在乎，我不想争论。你太自以为是了，我发的那篇文章和那个人给的链接，就是我们需要给你看的全部:)。你也还特别提到三国时期，我们说的是整个中国历史，所以你就是个笑话。
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@이치고 you are wrong. I am indeed talking about Chinese dynastic history in general, after three kingdoms period, Chinese almost exclusively prefered dao for standard military sidearm. I can''''t see why you are you always twisting my argument. You said that your lix and that other guy''''s lix is all you need, it''''s same for me, CITED Dao page in wikipedia is all I need, but you reject my source since in your opinion wikipedia is shady, then I must reject your source, since it''''s even more shady because your source is uncited and from blogspot. That other guy''''s lix is good, but it''''s limited to Han dynasty and Three kingdoms period, and we are talking about jian in general Chinese dynastic history.
I won''''t reply anymore, since it''''s clear no one will be convinced by other''''s argument (or "argument")
@이치고 你错了。我说的其实就是整个中国历史，三国以后，中国人几乎就只把刀当作标准军事武器。我不明白你为什么总是歪曲我的论点。你说你的链接和其他家伙的链接是你所需要的，对我来说也一样，维基百科上的有引用的刀的页面就是我需要,但你拒绝接受我的信息来源，因为你认为维基百科是可疑的，然后我就得拒绝接受你的信息来源，因为它更可疑，因为你的来源是没引用的，来自blogspot的。那个人的链接是很好，但仅限于汉朝和三国时期，我们说的是整个中国历史上的剑。
我不会再回复了，因为很明显没有人会被别人的争论(或者是“争论”)说服。
Christian Albert Jahns yeah dude, the other guy’s lix directly says there were more jian then dao
Christian Albert Jahns 是啊，哥们，那个人的链接直接说剑比刀多。
@Christian Albert Jahns but i do agree dao is more favored. i lean more towards single edged swords anyway
Christian Albert Jahns 但我同意刀更受欢迎。我更倾向于单刃刀剑。
@Christian Albert Jahns how many civilians actually use swords instead of just letting them hang on their belt or locked at home? And does even 1000 years of civilian use outweigh military use of just 100 or even 10 years to be justified being called "most".
Might as well say that your "most" were "mostly" left unused. Military drills and fighting are more of actual use than "civilian sidearm".
To "serve a role" of civilian sidearm? Maybe. Actual use? Probably not so much.
@Christian Albert Jahns 有多少平民是真正有在使用刀剑，而不是挂在腰带上或锁在家里的？民间用了1000年，在军事上用了100年甚至10年，才有理由被称为“大多数”。
不如说你的“大多数”是“一般地”。军事演习和战斗时比当“民用武器”的时候实际上使用的更多。
为平民服务的武器?也许是吧。实际使用？也许就没有那么多了。
@Christian Albert Jahns . bro wiki is wrong . jain was never fully replaced by day both was used when chinese han ruled . qing dao is different from really Chinese dynasty dao . qing is also Manchu ruled . till the song dynasty both jian and dao was used
@Christian Albert Jahns 兄弟，维基是错的。中国汉族统治时，剑从未完全被完全取代，两种都在用。清刀不同于真正的中国王朝的刀。清朝是满族统治。直到宋朝，剑和刀都被使用着。
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@anshu lieyi Qing was once under Ming dynasty rule , not suprise if manchu dao is similar to chinese dynasty dao , and again Qing is chinese dynasty check history pls ( manchu is manchu yes but their culturel is han that is why they could survival as a dynasty )
@anshu lieyi 清曾受明统治，如果觉得满洲刀和中国王朝的刀相似，这一点都不奇怪，而且清朝就是中国王朝，请查查历史（满族是满族的，是的，但他们的文化是汉族，这就是他们能够作为一个王朝生存的原因）
@Zhang Lee .ofcourse i meant manchu became han .but they destroyed alot orphan culture and dress and hairstyle and even some history records
@Zhang Lee 当然我的意思是满族变成了汉族。但他们也破坏了许多独有文化、服饰和发型，甚至一些历史记录。
@이치고 you''''re an embarassing fool the other guy was right
@이치고 你真是个傻瓜，另一个人说得对 。
poro poro its the youtube comment sections my friend. Who actually takes it seriously everyone is always trying to be right. Buncha blue pilled dumbasses everywhere
poro poro 我的朋友，这在youtube上的评论部分。真正认真对待的人，都在努力证明自己是正确的。到处都是无视事实的混蛋。
@Christian Albert Jahns As an ethnic Chinese who speaks Chinese & reads sources on the matter in Chinese & actually grows up in an environment where people actually practices such arts, i''''d say kudos for you make a far more convincing argument than the others here.
Most just don''''t get that jian didn''''t stay in one exclusive shape throughout the thousands of years of Chinese history. jian evolved from being thick & heavy & broad & comparatively short, to thin & light & narrow & rapier-sized throughout the ages. that''''s mostly due to them being gradually phased out by dao for practical reasons than for aesthetics or whatever. a thin, light, narrow sword has no practical use over armored opponents. anyone who pays attention to techniques practiced in the arts involving two weapons would notice that there''''s a severe lack of chopping techniques in the jian''''s part, as most techniques are thrusts & draw cuts. that''''s also developed in part due to practical reasons—metallurgical technologies of those ages just didn''''t permit use of weapons of such shape for regular chopping, as it''''d easily end up with the blade breaking, & a sword that can''''t be used for chopping is almost as good as useless in the battlefield.
So yeah, you''''ve got one in this thread who agrees with you in this, if not for historical facts, then for simple, logical reasons regarding dynamics in the battlefield. the jian long ceased to be a battlefield-oriented weapon.
作为一个会说中文和阅读中文资料的华人，实际上我还是在一个人们实践这些技巧的环境中长大的，我想说你是值得称赞的，你的观点比这里其他人的更有说服力。
大多数人都不知道，在中国几千年的历史中，剑并没有只保持着一种形状。剑由粗、重、宽、较短，逐渐演变为细、轻、窄、像迅捷剑那样。这主要是出于实际的原因它们被刀逐步淘汰，而不是出于美学或其他什么原因。一把薄、轻、窄的剑在对付穿着盔甲的敌人时没有什么实际用途。任何关注这两种武器的技术技巧的人都会注意到，剑严重缺乏砍的技巧，大多数剑的技巧就是刺和划。
所以，是的，在这层里你有一个人同意你的观点了，不是因为历史事实，很简单，是对战场的发展的逻辑上的原因。剑很久之前就不是在战场上使用的武器。
@Falcon Windblade . what about the song Song used more jian than Ming . i dont really comsider Ming , yuan and qing to be chinese
@Falcon Windblade 宋朝呢，宋朝比明朝更多使用剑。我不认为明、元、清是中国人
@anshu lieyi Then you need to reconsider your definition of ''''Chinese''''. Chinese is more than just Han.
@anshu lieyi 那么你就需要重新考虑你对“中国人”的定义。中国人不仅仅是汉族。
@이치고 I think the person u debate with is probably a Chinese. You know Chinese always act like they''''re better than everyone else and think of themselves as superiority, always boast about the greatness of Chinese culture and how other cultures are worthless in comparison. In actuality, Chinese culture is not even that great.
@이치고 我想和你争论的人可能是个中国人。你知道，中国人总是表现得比他们比任何人都厉害，认为自己很优越，总是吹嘘中国文化的伟大，比起来其他文化是多么的一文不值。事实上，中国文化也没有那么伟大。
@Falcon Windblade Han-Chinese dominate China and remain dominant till today. So what''''s ur point? Typically people are referring to the Han people when they talk about Chinese. Other ethnic groups in China belongs to different cultures, ethnically speaking they''''re not really considered as Chinese, politically wise.
@Falcon Windblade 中国汉人统治着中国，直到今天仍然统治着中国。那你是什么意思？通常人们在谈论中国人时都是指的汉族。中国其他民族是属于不同的文化..........
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@Jacky Phantom "Typically people are referring to the Han people when they talk about Chinese"
Typical DOESN''''T mean true. Han-Chinese are written as Han-Chinese instead of just Chinese for a goddamn good reason. saying that the other ethnic groups ain''''t Chinese in whatever ways are just like saying that you hafta be white in order to be Americans, which''''s stupid.
@Jacky Phantom “通常人们在谈论中国人时都是指的汉族。”
通常并不意味着就是事实。理由就是中国汉族写成Han-Chinese，而不是Chinese。说其他少数民族不是中国人就像说你必须是白人才能成为美国人一样，多蠢啊。
@Falcon Windblade Again, ur argument is stupid. Yes, geographically and politically they''''re Chinese, but ethnically wise.
@Falcon Windblade 再说一次，你的论点是愚蠢的。是的，在地理上和政治上他们是中国人，但种族上不是。
@Jacky Phantom THAT''''s where i said get your definition of ''''Chinese'''' right. Chinese is NOT just the Han. Han may be the face of ''''Chinese'''' due to overwhelming numbers, but Chinese has LONG been more than just the Han. if you even bothered studying Chinese history at all, you''''d know that much.
If you wanna stick to an argument that''''s not only like 2000 years out of date but is outright WRONG in recent historical setting, be my guest. but if you wanna shove it down people''''s throats... well, who am i to stop people from keep being stupid eh...
@Jacky Phantom 这就是我说的让你正确定义“中国人”的地方。中国人不仅仅是汉人。由于人数众多，汉族可能是“中国人”的面孔，但中国人早已不仅仅是汉族了。如果你愿意花时间研究一下中国历史，你就会知道这么多的。
如果你想坚持一个论点，这个论点不仅过时了2000年，而且在最近的历史背景下是完全错误的，但如果你想把它塞进人们的喉咙里，你请便……好吧，我是谁啊，能阻止人们继续犯傻？
@Falcon Windblade Like i said smartass, the non-Sinitic peoples in China have different culture and independent ethnical identity.
Those from the South have culture and language that are more similar to Southeast Asian.
Mongolian, Tibetan and Uyghur are politically controlled by the Chinese gov. By right they should''''ve their own country.
Manchurian were outlander that conquered China, but now they''''re in the brink of extinction.
I''''m not wrong to say that China is dominantly Han country.
@Falcon Windblade 就像我说的，一个自作聪明的家伙，中国的非汉语系民族有不同的文化和独立的民族身份。
南方人的文化和语言与东南亚人更相似。
满族是征服中国的外来者，但现在他们处于灭绝的边缘。
我没有说错，中国是汉族统治的国家。
（译注：smartass，自作聪明的家伙）
@Jacky Phantom A smartass who can''''t wrap his head around the concept that ''''Chinese'''' has long been an UMBRELLA term covering MULTIPLE ethnic groups, practicing diverse cultures & having different languages, found or later incorporated into the mainland, instead of referring to just one ethnicity, one language, & one culture, calling other people smartasses... man, what a joke indeed...
& oh, being DOMINATED by Han ain''''t mean that the place exclusively belonging to the Han & everyone has to submit to the Han. again, Han DOESN''''T equal Chinese... but then again, i should stop talking to someone who apparently can''''t grasp, or worse, outright REFUSE to see the difference between 華人 & 漢人...
@Jacky Phantom 一个自作聪明的家伙不能用他的脑袋装入“中国”的概念一直是一个总括的术语涵盖多个民族，不同文化和不同的语言，发现或后来纳入大陆，而不是指一个民族,一种语言,，和一种文化，叫别人smartass……伙计，你可真是个笑话……
哦，被汉人统治并不意味着这个地方只属于汉族，每个人都必须服从汉族。我再说一次，汉族不等同于中国人…我还得再说一次，我应该别跟一个显然不能理解，或者更糟，直接‘拒绝’看到華人和漢人的区别的家伙继续说话……
@Falcon Windblade So you''''re a Chinese using foreign ID to hide urself, duh. Make sense now! Like i said, this is just a political concept created by the Han-Chinese to justify their imperialistic domination. At one point, Chinese even trying to claim the ethnical right of other Asian peoples like Korean, Japanese and Southeast Asian. Chinese often play sematic in their political game, twisted logic and definition; zero common sense !
@Falcon Windblade 所以你是一个用外国ID来隐藏自己的中国人。现在讲得通了！就像我说的，这只是中国汉族为了证明他们的帝国主义统治是合理的.............
@Jacky Phantom Woohoo!! BAITED!! one more stupid fact about this guy to add to the list----unable to fathom or comprehend the fact that overseas Chinese could speak Chinese as well, & the guy has to make everything about contemporary politics in China!!
If you, apparently a guy who can''''t speak Chinese, NEVER bothered reading anything about ancient Chinese history, & worse still, insisting you know better about the Chinese despite the aforementioned two facts above, wants to keep embarrassing yourself, again, be my guest.
@Jacky Phantom 喔乎！！上当了吧！！这蠢货又说了句蠢话——无法理解海外华人也会说中文，这个家伙必须去了解关于中国当代政治的一切!!
你，一个显然不会说中文的人，从来没有读过任何关于中国古代历史的东西，更糟的是，还坚持认为你更了解中国，尽管有上面那两句蠢话，想要继续让自己蠢下去，我再说一次，你请便。
@Falcon Windblade Overseas Chinese? Let me guess... Singapore? Malaysia? Or some Chinese descendant in Western country? Well, not like i could give 2 damn about it. But what i know is u and ur race are flooding this world lol. Singapore and Taiwan for examples, belongs to the Austronesian peoples, and now they''''re just populated dominantly by the Chinese.
You can embrace ur own culture, that''''s ur right. But u ain''''t got no right to claim the entitlement of ethnical identity of other ethnic groups. :p
@Falcon Windblade 海外华人吗？让我猜猜……新加坡？马来西亚吗？还是西方国家的华裔？我TM才不在乎呢。但是我知道的是你和你们的种族正在淹没这个世界，哈哈。比如新加坡和台湾，他们属于南岛民族的，现在他们的人口主要是中国人了。
你可以拥抱自己的文化，这是你的权利。但是你没有权利要求其他民族也要接受这个民族身份。:p
@Jacky Phantom the modern culture is very jacked and westernized, i personally like china in the old days. Where china was actually china. but yeah, I get your point. Even when I have discussions about historical arms and armor to them they do tend to get very nationalistic or defensive for some weird reason although I''''m just discussing material culture lmao
@Jacky Phantom 现代文化是非常奇怪和西方化的，我个人是喜欢以前的中国。那时中国就是中国。但我明白你的意思。即使我和他们讨论历史上的武器和盔甲，他们也会因为一些奇怪的原因变得非常民族主义或怀有戒心，尽管我只是在讨论物质文化，哈哈。
@이치고 Are u Korean? Chinese often act like they''''re entitled to Korean and Japanese heritage for some reason, claiming that Japanese and Korean are originated from Chinese stock.
@이치고 你是韩国人吗？中国人常常因为某种原因表现得好像他们有权继承韩国和日本的遗产，老是声称日本和韩国是源自中国的。
@이치고 This is also the reason why i find it hard to communicate with Chinese. They always have to sinicize everything.
@이치고 这也是我觉得很难和中国人交流的原因。他们总是要把一切都中国化。
@Jacky Phantom i understand lol. yes im ethnically korean, born in korea raised by korean parents but raised in american lands since i was 2. so i kind of got both worlds on me. The funniest part is when those wushu guys think those shitty floppy swords are actual chinese swords. a lot of them dont evne know their own military history
@Jacky Phantom 我明白。哈哈，是的，我是朝鲜族，出生在韩国，由韩国人父母带大，但我从2岁起就在美国长大的。所以这两个世界都对我有点影响。最搞笑的是那些武术人认为那些垃圾软趴趴的剑是真正的中国剑。很多人都不知道自己的军事历史。
Just wanna say as a non-han Chinese we are very impress with the Oxtail Dao and the 9 rings swords. Not so much the jian. You can find inspirations of them all over Asia from Thailand to Mongolia etc.. For armored warfare the Jian definitely loses over to the Dao.
我只是想说，作为一个非汉族中国人，我们对牛尾刀和九环刀印象深刻。对剑没啥印象。从泰国到蒙古等亚洲各地都可以找到它们的灵感。至于在穿盔甲的战争中，剑肯定会输给刀的。
@Don Jones for most of asian history, the influence of curved single edged sabres come from turkic tribes. the scimitar actually comes from turkic sabers
@Don Jones 在大多数亚洲历史上 ，弯曲单刃的马刀的影响是是来自突厥部落。scimitar实际上就来自突厥马刀。
（译注：scimitar，起源于中东的反刀或带有弯曲叶片的军刀）
@이치고 pretty sure it''''s from the dha sword, a Burmese/Indian origin. Nice try with your Korean/Turkic Altaic Supremacy.
@이치고 很肯定是来自达剑，起源于缅甸/印度。别吹你的朝鲜/突厥阿尔泰语系至高无上了。
（译注：达剑，dha一词通常用于指代东南亚许多人使用的各种刀和剑）
@Don Jones theres a difference between facts and what you "think". My references are islamic and oriental arms and armor, and the book "study of the eastern sword" by kiril rivkin. fact check :)
@Don Jones 事实和你“认为的”是有区别的。我参考的是伊斯兰和东方的武器和盔甲，还有基里尔·里夫金的《东方武器研究》这本书。事实查证 :)
@이치고 Very hard to imagine Korean actually have relation to Turkish. But it make sense since both countries speak Altaic language family. But here come the question...in many scholar studies, Altaic is just a hypothetical language family. In actuality, both Japanese and Korean are language isolate with strong Chinese influence, much like Vietnamese, except that Vietnamese belong to Austroasiatic language family, a language group commonly spoken in Southern China (by some minorities) and Southeast Asia (particularly Mon-Khmer) as well as India (among the minorities).
@이치고 很难想象朝鲜人和土耳其人有关系。但还是有道理的，因为两国都是说阿尔泰语系的。但问题来了…在许多学者的研究中，阿尔泰语系只是一个假定的语系。事实上，日语和韩语都是孤立语，有很强的中国影响，很像越南语，只是越南语属于南岛语系，是中国南方（一些少数民族）和东南亚（特别是孟-高棉）以及印度（少数民族）共同使用的一种语系。
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Wow as an ethnic Chinese I''''ve always been fascinated with Chinese weaponry, espcially Jian and Dao which I feel aren''''t as popular as their Western counterparts, glad you made this video
哇，作为一个华人，我一直对中国的武器着迷，特别是剑和刀，我觉得它们不像西方的武器那么受欢迎，很高兴你制作了这个视频
A black guy representing Chinese sword lol
一个黑人来代表中国剑，哈哈。
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anshu lieyi whats wrong with it?
anshu lieyi 怎么了？
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@anshu lieyi what''''s the problem
@anshu lieyi 有问题？
@anshu lieyi ...Race should not matter, it''''s the amount of study, knowledge and skills that matters
@anshu lieyi ……种族不重要，重要的是学习、知识和技能的数量
More chinese sword content pls! Also a duel between the two of you!
做更多中国刀剑的内容！还有你们两个的决斗！
The gentleman with the Han sword is absolutely correct. Chinese martial weapons are generally designed with hip and leg driven power in mind. Chinese martial arts train to fight from the legs and hips.
绅士拿着汉剑是绝对正确的。中国的军事武器一般都是以臀部和腿部为动力设计的。中国武术训练从腿和臀部开始。
so much stance work at my wushu school
我在我的武术学校，做了这么多的动作。
I have been waiting so long for you to talk about the Jian, thank you for that.
Could you compare chinese armor to European armor.
我一直想让你谈谈中国剑，谢谢你。
你能对比一下中国的盔甲和欧洲的盔甲吗。
Mountain pattern armor. I don''''t know why people are so obsessed with Yoroi if you got that stuff ripe for picking. It just screams to be used by a hero of some kind.
山文甲。我不知道为什么人们会那么迷恋铠甲（日本铠），如果你已经准备好要挑选的东西。它只是尖叫着被某个英雄之类的人使用。
@Cosmic Live Chinese still arguing does mountain pattern even existed，none of a pieces of mountain pattern have be found。If you read Chinese historical records, you will find Chinese General complaining issue armor shitty quality, and they praising Japanese''''s stuffs quite well made。(That doesn''''t mean samurais are ultimate warriors in the world)
@Cosmic Live 中国人仍然争辩说山文甲是存在的，没有发现一片山文甲被发现，如果你读中国历史记录，你会发现中国人总抱怨盔甲质量不好，他们称赞日本的东西做得很好。（这并不意味着武士就是这个世界上的终极战士）
@R Fair point. Doesn''''t stop it from looking awesome. And I mean that quite an interesting topic for Skall to explore. (Now I want to research that stuff... but it''''s getting late here so maybe tomorrow)
@R 公平点，这并不能阻止它看起来棒极了。我是说，这对作者来说是一个很有趣的话题。（现在我想研究那些东西。。。但现在已经很晚了，所以也许明天吧）
Yeah do lamellar vs maille.
是的，做札甲VS锁子甲。
@CtrlAlt Debug Not really comparable.
@CtrlAlt Debug 这没有可比性。
@CtrlAlt Debug Chinese have both,.
Maybe Skall can do metal lamellar vs leather lamellar, Chinese used both, they also say leather good as metal
or may be rattan shield vs viking shield
@CtrlAlt Debug 这中国人都有。
也许作者可以做金属札甲VS皮革札甲，中国人都有用，他们还说皮革和金属的一样好呢，
或者是藤盾VS维京盾。
R maille was very rare and imported. I''''m unaware of any large forces equipped with western style riveted maille armor. Steel/leather lamellar is the most iconic from the earlier dynasties.
R 锁子甲非常稀有，而且都是进口的。我不知道有什么大部队装备了西式铆接锁子甲。钢铁/皮革札甲是在早期王朝最具标志性的。
@CtrlAlt Debug Mail and lamellar still aren''''t really comparable. They''''re two very different pieces. Lamellar and coat of plates/brigandine or scale armour would be a better comparison.
@CtrlAlt Debug 锁子甲和札甲还是没有可比性。它们是两种完全不同的部分。札甲和金属衣/镶甲，或者鳞甲是更好的对比。
@R . praising japanese armour . fuck off lair. Chinese song dynasty armour is better develop than samurai primitive armour. The chinese used leather strips and belts while japanese used robes lol
@R 还赞美日本盔甲呢。滚出去，骗子。中国宋代的盔甲要比日本武士那原始盔甲发展得更好。中国人都在用皮带了，而日本人还在用绳子呢，哈哈。
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@R there was a record of Japanese about during Japan invading Korean and Ming dynasty under Hideyoshi, they recorded that Ming army armor was so well made, even they break three pieces of katana also couldn''''t cut through it
@R 这有一个记载，日本在丰臣秀吉的领导下侵略朝鲜和明朝的时候，他们记载明朝军队的盔甲制作得很好，砍烂三把武士刀都砍不穿。
@R source for Chinese praising Japanese armor?
@R 中国人称赞日本盔甲的出处呢？
@R Most of the people I''''ve read are not arguing whether it existed, but rather how it was made. Mountain pattern armor is seen depicted on carved statues and paintings and was made distinct from other forms of armor such as lamellar and chainmail (both of which are depicted on Chinese statues and artwork). As for bad armor quality, you really have to be more specific because armor type and armor quality can vary widely depending on the timeperiod and who is making it. During the Han era, state industries that produced iron and steel sometimes made very good armor and sometimes they made bad armor when the institutions became corrupt. You cannot stereotype Chinese armor in general as bad or even armor of a dynasty in general as bad based on a single comment from a single record about armor from a manufacturer during a specific timeperiod.
@R 我读过的大多数人的言论，争论的不是它是否存在，而是它是如何形成制造的。山文甲被描绘在雕像和绘画上，与其他形式的铠甲如札甲和锁子甲不同（两者都有被描绘在中国的雕像和艺术品上)。至于劣质的盔甲质量，你真的需要更加明确具体一些，因为盔甲类型和盔甲质量会因时间段和生产的人而异。在汉朝时期，国有工业生产钢铁，有时能生产出很好的盔甲，而有时在制度腐败时会生产出很差的盔甲。你不能根据制造者在特定时间段内关于盔甲的单个记录中的一条评论，就将中国盔甲的总体形象刻板化为劣质的，甚至将一个王朝的盔甲的总体形象刻板化为劣质的。
i believe that the chinese didnt develop heavy armor as much as their counterparts because they have stuff like crossbows that can penetrate armor....
我相信中国人并没有像他们的对手发展出那么多重型盔甲，因为他们拥有可以穿透盔甲的弩之类的东西。。。。
Having trained extensively with both weapons, the whole point of the difference in point of rotation is the fact that the rapier is designed specifically to run your opponent''''s blade onto the hilt for control, whereas the jain style is designed to keep the opponent''''s blade away from your hilt. Size of the opponent''''s blade is largely irrelevant. With proper technique, I can displace a Scottish broadsword with a smallsword. I do love watching Swordsage move with a sword. Anything he picks up becomes a part of him. I also must say that I always appreciate Skall''''s open minded approach to everything. Very cool all around, guys.
这两种武器都受过广泛使用，护手的旋转角度的区别在于，迅捷剑是专门设计让对手的剑刃落剑柄时进行控制，而中国剑的设计是为了让对手的剑刃远离你的剑柄。对手的剑刃的大小基本上是无关紧要的。用适当的技术，我可以用一把小型剑代替一把苏格兰大剑。我喜欢Swordsage拿剑的动作。他拿到的任何东西都会成为他的一部分。我还必须得说，我一直很欣赏作者用开放心态对待一切。到处都有很酷的东西，伙计们。
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What a sweet collab video indeed. It is nice to bring in someone who is more experienced in a certain regional typography to not only learn more yourself, but share it with one''''s audience who keeps asking about them. Should do a Falchion and Dao comparison while he is there as well. I have appreciated the beautiful form of the Jian, a simple straight blade with some versions having highly decorated handles or even small and simple like the first example. I didn''''t know that there was a polearm/greatsword length version. So thanks for sharing that. I have recently been looking on The Swords of Northshire''''s website and they have quite the offerings of Jian and other Chinese swords, they are all absolutely stunning.
真是个不错的合作视频。这是很好的，很高兴请来一位在某个方面更有经验的人，这样不仅可以让你自己学到更多 ，也分享给了一位不断要求这么做他们的观众。当他还在那里的时候，也应该做欧洲砍刀（Falchion）和中国刀的对比。我很欣赏中国剑的美丽外形，简单的直刃，有些种类还会把剑柄装饰的很华丽，有的甚至像第一把那样小巧而简单。我不知道有没有长柄或大剑的加长版本。总之谢谢分享这个视频。我最近一直在看northshire的网站，他们那里有很多中国剑和其他中国刀剑，它们都非常令人惊叹。
（译注：Falchion，单手，单刃的欧洲刀；northshire，基本上是卖日本刀的网站。）
Chinese Jian ( 剑 ) . The Jian ( 剑 ) means SWORD in english. Lmao.
中国剑（剑）。剑在英语中是SWORD的意思。笑死我了。
I mean, that''''s not that weird. Like Skall said, most swords, in their time, were just called swords. Because there were really only a few types of sword being used at any given time. We''''ve only given different names to them now because we have the benefit of seeing many different designs in different contexts.
Also, Swordsage has talked at some length before on this channel about how to the Chinese, the jian (straight sword) and the dao (curved sword) were totally different weapons deserving of separate names.
我想说，这没那么奇怪。正如作者所说的，大多数剑，在他们的时代，只是被称为swords。因为在任何时候都只有少数几种剑被使用。只是现在我们给他们起了不同的名字，因为我们可以在不同的背景中看到许多不同的设计。
此外，Swordsage在这个频道上也有对如何对待中国武器进行过详细讨论，剑（直剑）和刀（弯剑）是完全不同的武器，应该分别命名。
@giggityguy Im just letting people know their names. Also dao刀 means blade.
@giggityguy 我只是让人们知道他们的名字。刀也指blade。
With Greek and Roman blades it''''s the same. Gladius means sword.
So does the Greek word xiphos which also is a specific type of sword.
Usually at least one type of sword is literally named "sword"
就像希腊和罗马的刀剑是一样的。Gladius的意思酒是sword。
希腊单词XiPHS也是一种特殊类型的剑。
通常至少有一种剑字面上叫做“sword”
@Boaz Henstra
While you are correct that many swords in history were just called swords in their native wielders language the word “xiphos” actually doesn’t mean sword, it means “piercing light”. “xi”means something along the lines of pierce or penetrate and “phos” means light. Just a little fun fact one my Greek friends told me about.
Edit: Although it should be said that the word “xiphos” became synonymous with the word sword in the Greek language which I believe is “spatha” but don’t quote me because I don’t speak Greek.
@Boaz Henstra
你说得对，历史上的许多刀剑在它们的本族语言中就只是被称为sword，但“xiphos”这个词实际上并不是剑的意思，它的意思是“尖锐的光”。“xi”的意思是类似刺穿或穿透，“phos”的意思是光。这只是我的希腊朋友告诉我的一个小趣事。
改正：虽然应该说“xiphos”这个词在希腊语中变成了“sword ”的同义词，但我还是相信是““spatha”才对，但不要引用我的话，因为我不会说希腊语。
It''''s a sword from China, of course it''''s Chinese sword
这是一把来自中国的sword，当然是中国sword 。
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@Boaz Henstra To be honest most culture didn''''t have more then a handful of sword designs that were used at once, for the examples you gave ancient romans had 2 sword designs the classic gladius used by the infantry and another slightly longer design for cavarly use. Same with the ancient greek IIRC (though they used far less cavarly).
@Boaz Henstra 说实话，大多数文化同一段时间内只有使用很少的武器设计，比如你给的例子中古罗马人有两种刀剑的设计，一种是步兵使用的经典罗马短剑（gladiu），另一种稍微长一点的设计是骑兵使用的。如果我没记错的话，古希腊人也是如此（尽管它们使用的骑兵要少得多）。
@SampoPaalanen Greeks also had the kopis
@SampoPaalanen 希腊人也有kopis
（译注：kopis，类似尼泊尔军刀，一种反曲弯刀）
Almost all swords were just called sword at their time. Naming them to diferenciate them is more modern. You would be surprised by how many weapons, not just swords, if you translate them they just mean sword, or shield or stuff like that
当时几乎所有的刀剑都叫做sword。命名它们以区别它们是更加现代的事。你会惊讶于有多少武器，不只是sword，如果你把它们翻译成sword，盾牌或诸如此类的东西 。
Does jian translate into ken in Japanese? I just remembered Sun Jian is Sonken in Japanese and wondered if to is related to dao now.
剑翻译成日语就是ken？我只记得孙坚在日语里是Sonken，不知道现在跟刀有没有关系。
@Hakuraita yeah pretty sure that''''s the same kanji, just simplified. And yes, dao and to/katana are also the same kanji, which btw literally means single edged sword, so technically you can call a saber "katana" :B
@Hakuraita 是的，很肯定那是一样的汉字，只是简化了。还有是的，刀和to/katana也是同一个汉字，顺便说一下，它的字面意思是单刃刀剑，所以从技术上讲，你可以叫一把saber为“katana”:B
You know that swords in english were usually called swords also eh? Shocking.
你知道英语中的swords通常也叫swords吧？震惊。
Just wanna ask,
don''''t Japanese distinguish 刀(katana) and 軍刀(saber) seriously?
只是想问问，
日本不区分刀（katana）和軍刀（saber）严重吗?
Katana是传统的象征，而saber是现代化的象征。
If you find that weird, then consider 剣 in Japanese. when read in kunyomi, as ''''tsurugi'''', it means straight, double-edged blades resembling the Chinese ones. when read in onyomi, as ''''ken'''', it means swords in general, regardless of shape & length so long as it''''s not a polearm.
如果你觉得很奇怪，那就考虑一下日语中的剣。当用训读时读作“tsurugi”，意思就是直的、双刃的刀剑，类似中国的那样。当用音读时读作“ken”时，它的意思是一般的swords，不管剑的形状和长度，只要不是长柄武器。
@Siloseea Irenicus ''''Katana'''' came from ''''kataha 片刃'''', which means single-edged, as opposed to ''''moroha 諸刃'''', which means double-edged. from there, you can see that ''''katana'''' simply means ANY single-edged blade, tradition or not has nothing to do with it. ''''gunto'''', on the other hand, means military sword/blade, specifically denoting single-edged swords used by the military in the modern setting, which in western context, corresponds to the saber.
@Siloseea Irenicus ‘katana’是来自‘kataha 片刃’，意思是单刃，跟‘moroha 諸刃’相反，意思是双刃，你可以看到“katana”可以简单指任何一把单刃刀剑， 跟传统与否无关，另一方面，‘gunto’指的是军用用的剑/刀，特别是指现代军事用的单刃刀剑，在西方语境里，对应的就是‘saber’。
@Brambl What the heck. Jian means sword, so you don''''t use sword word and Jian word together, it''''s either just [Jian] or [Chinese sword]. That''''s what he means.
@Brambl 搞什么鬼。剑的意思就是sword，所以你不能把剑这个单词跟sword这个单词一起使用，它要么就是剑，要么就是中国剑。这就是它的意思。
I absolutely love the designs of every single chinese sword. Dao, jian, I find them beautifull.
我绝对喜欢每一把中国刀剑。刀，剑，我发现它们都很漂亮。
Fascinating! Realize I know very little about Chinese swords.
真迷人！要知道我对中国到剑可是知之甚少。
So, interesting question. Did they develop the weapon for the technique or adapt the technique for the weapon? This really opens a lot of fascinating fantasy combinations of techniques and weapons. Bravo, you two, amazing video!
是个有趣的问题。他们是为技术开发武器还是为武器调整技术？这真的打开了许多迷人的幻想，技术和武器的组合。好极了，你们两个，精彩的视频！
All depends on the weapon on question like the Jian or gladius it''''s made too work a shield but something like a falx you can use it two banded, one handed, and with a shield etc it all depends on what the end goal the people in question wants with the weapon
一切都取决于武器，如中国剑或罗马短剑，它也是搭配盾牌使用的，但像一个达西安镰刀这样的东西，你可以两只手使用，一只手也行，搭配盾牌也可以，还有很多用途，这完全取决于人们想用武器达到什么目的。
I''''d say both, one makes a sword, which has specific properties and favoured techniques dependent on stuff like centre of gravity and curvature. People start making techniques for it and swordsmiths start making swords which complement these techniques.
我想说两者都有，制造一把刀剑，它就会有特殊的属性和受欢迎的技术，这技术依赖于重心和曲率之类的东西。人们开始为它制作技术，刀剑匠开始制作补足这些技术的剑。
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I imagine something in between, the weapon and technique developed at the same time, you can''''t have one without the other, right?
我想是介于两者之间，武器和技术是同时发展的，你不能有一个没有另一个的，对吧？
227 BCE, assassin Jing Ke entered the Qin palace in Midwest China. He was granted a meeting with Emperor Qin Shihuang, the Emperor who united China for the first time in 2000 years. Jing Ke stepped up to the spacious, empty hall and presented to the Emperor a scroll containing a map showing the exact locations of the remaining forces of the resistance. From the end of the scroll he drew out a dagger and attempted to claim the Emperor''''s life. Qin Shihuang, being the conqueror he was, immediately reached for his Jian. He couldn''''t draw it out. His Jian was too long and the sheath was hooked to his belt. He ran around the columns in the palace, narrowly missed Jing Ke''''s stabs. A court physician tossed his medicine satchel at the assassin and successfully tripped him up. Qin Shihuang had finally managed to shift his long Jian behind his back and he were able to draw it out. Jing''''s dagger was no match for Emperor''''s sword and he was killed on the spot.
During the Qin-Han dynasties and pre-Qin eras, a Jian is usually a symbol of nobility and prestige. Some kings and emperors wore impractically long swords but I have not seen one as long as the one in the video.
Btw it''''s time to call for the next Assassin''''s Creed - Ancient China.
公元前227年，刺客荆轲进入位于中国中西部的秦宫。他被授予会见秦始皇的权利，秦始皇在2000年前第一次统一了中国。荆轲走到空旷的大殿前，向皇帝展示了一幅卷轴，卷轴上有一幅地图，显示了残余抵抗势力的确切位置。他从卷轴的末端抽出一把匕首，企图夺去皇帝的生命。秦始皇作为征服者，立刻伸手去拿他的剑，但他拔不出来，他的剑太长了，剑鞘还挂在腰带上。他绕着宫殿里的圆柱跑，险些被荆轲刺中 。一名宫廷医生将他的药袋扔向刺客，并成功地将他绊倒。秦始皇终于把他的长剑移到身后，并拔了出来。荆轲的匕首根本挡不了皇帝的剑，他被当场杀死。
在秦汉和先秦时期，剑通常是高贵和威望的象征。一些王和皇帝会佩带不实用的长剑，但我从来没见过像视频里那么长的。
顺便说一下，现在是时候呼吁下一部刺客信条-古代中国。