中国｜大阪霓虹闪烁的核心地带，显现出日本对华更强硬立场的代价

@cool_lemons
Most people in Japan are happy about the decrease in Chinese tourists...

日本大多数人都乐见中国游客减少……

@Dry_Meringue_8016
Most Japanese want fewer foreigners in their country, period, and Takaichi is pushing an anti-foreigner agenda.

大多数日本人都希望减少外国人进入他们的国家，没别的，而高市正在推动一套反外国人的议程。

@tacodestroyer99
Same happened in Taiwan and it was such a pleasant difference. Business owners learned to stop catering to loud, messy, arrogant and disrespectful Chinese tour groups and start catering to the increase in independent travelers from southeast Asia which the government bolstered with policies that incentivized that growth (new southbound policy).
Very positive outcome and then the Chinese can no longer use it as leverage.

台湾（地区）也发生过同样的情况，结果反而让人感觉舒服多了。商家不再迎合那些吵闹、邋遢、傲慢又不尊重人的中国旅行团，转而服务越来越多来自东南亚的自由行游客，而这些增长正是政府通过政策（比如“新南向政策”）大力推动的。
结果非常正面，而且中国也没法再把这当成施压的筹码了。

@Tunggall
Most tourists to Japan are happy about the decrease in Chinese tourists too.

很多去日本的游客也对中国游客变少感到挺高兴的。

@Taxi-Shinawat
I don't think there is a country in the world who wouldn't be happy about declining Chinese tourism.

我不觉得世界上有哪个国家会对中国游客减少不开心。

@stevedisme
Congratulations ***! C tourism is now as welcome as Covid-19!

恭喜***！现在C游客的受欢迎程度，已经跟新冠病毒一样了！

@Queranus77
Please. You people are professional China haters on a professional China hater forum.

拜托，你们这些人就是一群职业仇华的，混在一个职业仇华的论坛里。

@aznkl
Usually when I mention that even the *** themselves have warned Chinese tourists to be on their best behaviour overseas, people like you immediately shut up and are nowhere to be found.

通常我一提到连***自己都警告中国游客在海外要注意行为举止，像你这样的人立马就不吭声了，直接消失。

@Queranus77
So they give better advice than most governments? Our own government doesn’t do that despite every other month an Aussie dickhead is over in Bali punching locals.

那他们给的建议不是比大多数政府都靠谱吗？我们自己政府可没这么做，尽管几乎每隔一个月就有澳洲蠢货跑到巴厘岛去打当地人。

@Marcionius
To be fair, wasn't that back in 2013? Practically an entire lifetime ago.
Can't imagine any of the current Vice Premiers of China making a similar statement.

公平点说，那不是2013年的事吗？简直像是上辈子的事了。
真想象不出现在的中国副总理里还有谁会发表类似的言论。

@Tunggall
We all know govts can preach but people may not follow their advice.

我们都知道政府可以呼吁、说教，但老百姓未必会听从。

@Shriek_Opposite_8096
You are a China excuser on a page banned in China.

你在一个被中国封禁的页面上给中国洗地。

@Right-Edge9320
Up!

顶！

@person2567
All of Southeast Asia for sure. Also if you're referring to the countries themselves then no one wants to get rid of Chinese tourists. Tourism is a huge industry that props up many cities.
Chinese people also buy boatloads of foreign luxury items to make money by reselling back home to avoid tariffs. Louis Vuitton owes a good portion of their valuation to Chinese tourists. Nobody wants that kind of money gone cause "eww Chinese people have bad manners."

东南亚肯定是这样。要说到各个国家本身，其实根本没人想赶走中国游客。旅游业是个巨大的产业，养活了很多城市。
而且中国人还会大量购买海外奢侈品，带回国内倒卖，避开关税。
路易威登很大一部分市值都要归功于中国游客。没人会因为一句“哎呀中国人没礼貌”就舍得把这种钱赶走。

@deccan2008
But will their wallets be happy?

但他们的钱包受得了吗？

@DisastrousAnswer9920
Individual tourism is actually on the rise, which is a good thing. Higher spending Chinese tourists are also on the rise, and they're still buying properties in Japan, and that's a good thing, what's less is the bus tour crowd and nobody misses that except for Chinese operators in Japan.

个人游其实在增长，这是好事。高消费的中国游客也在增加，而且他们还在日本买房，这同样是好事。减少的是那种大巴团游客，除了在日本的中国旅游业者，基本没人会想念他们。

@Senzokun
Central Osaka, Kyoto, and half of Tokyo have all been ruined by mass foreign tourism, largely from western countries. I don't even go to Shibuya, Asakusa, Harajuku, Shinjuku, Dotonbori, Gion, or Pontocho anymore because they're gross.

大阪市中心、京都，还有东京一半的地方，都被大量外国游客毁了，主要还是西方游客。我现在已经不去涩谷、浅草、原宿、新宿、道顿堀、祇园或先斗町了，实在太恶心。

@DisastrousAnswer9920
Remember that France has more tourists.
Japan needs to refine its tourist infrastructure, maybe copy some of what France has done through decades of travelers.
Feature France Japan
Global Rank #1 most visited country in the world Top trending "must-visit" destination
Projected Visitors ~102 million international arrivals ~41.4 million international arrivals

别忘了，法国的游客数量更多。
日本需要打磨自己的旅游基础设施，或许可以借鉴一下法国几十年来接待游客积累的经验。
对比：
| 项目 | 法国 | 日本 |
| 全球排名 | 世界第一大旅游目的地 | 当前最火的“必去”目的地 |
| 预计游客量 | 约1.02亿国际游客 | 约4140万国际游客 |

@Senzokun
Many of those French "tourists" are day trips from adjacent counties. They're not the kind of tourist that spends a week causing chaos in Shibuya with selfie camera sticks.

很多所谓的法国“游客”其实就是从邻近县过来的一日游，并不是那种在涩谷待上一周、拿着自拍杆到处制造混乱的游客。

@DisastrousAnswer9920
Maybe you're right, but again, Japan has a lot to offer and people wanna go there. Maybe prices should increase.

也许你说得对，但日本确实有很多吸引人的地方，大家都想去。也许价格确实该涨一涨。

@Puffins-tuff
You don’t enjoy the hacking up a lung sound?

你不喜欢那种咳得像要把肺都咳出来的声音吗？

@Shriek_Opposite_8096
Just took a flight with mostly Chinese people in it. As close as possible to EVERY SINGLE one was either open mouthed coughing, snorting mucous around, or just actively picking their nose. Grub behaviours.s

刚坐了一趟航班，乘客几乎全是中国人。几乎每一个人不是张着嘴咳嗽、到处吸鼻涕，就是当场抠鼻子。真是又脏又恶心的行为。

@Sad-Grab288
Clear lies and propaganda lol

明显的谎言和宣传，lol

@icemanik1
What about business owners and hotels

那商家和酒店呢？

@IM_REFUELING
Japan gets an absurd amount of international tourism from places not called China. They're gonna be just fine.

日本从除中国以外的国家也吸引了多到离谱的国际游客，完全不用担心，照样过得很好。

@icemanik1
Been to Japan few times, i would bet my life on the fact that Chinese tourists are like half of the traffic
But thats not even that, they buy shitload of stuff, as in recognizing they are buying higher quality items and bring them back to China
Its not that international tourists dont buy things but i never saw anything close to what Chinese people do bringing 2-3 suitcases just to load up on cosmetics, baby formula medicine etc

去过日本好几次，我敢拿命打赌，中国游客差不多占了一半的人流。
而且还不只是人多，他们买东西是真的狠——明显是在买高质量的商品再带回中国。
倒也不是说其他国家的游客不消费，但我真没见过谁像中国人这样，拖着两三只行李箱，专门装化妆品、婴儿奶粉、药品之类的。

@Hailene2092
18.9% in 2024.
I'm surprised Korea topped the chart.
Almost as many Taiwanese visited Japan as Chinese people. Maybe you're mixing the two?
I guess id you combine Hong Kongers and mainlanders they're the top? Wild to think that Hong Kong has 1/200th of the population of mainland China but has 40% the number of visits.

2024年是18.9%。
我有点惊讶韩国居然排第一。
去日本的台湾（地区）游客几乎和中国大陆游客一样多。你是不是把这两个算混了？
不过要是把香港（特区）和大陆加在一起，那他们确实是第一了？
想想也挺夸张的，香港（特区）人口只有大陆的两百分之一，但访日人数却有大陆的40%。

@JABS991
Yeah. Thats because so many Chinese made products are toxic. Some ppl do tourism for 3 suitxases of baby formula.

是啊，这就是因为很多中国产的东西有毒。有些人出国旅游就是为了买三大箱婴儿奶粉。

@GuardedFeelings
Well prepare to lose your life

那就准备好把命搭上吧。

@Senzokun
Honestly, Westerners are worse imo. At least Chinese tourists are familiar with Asian urban infrastructure. The bad behavior from 15 years ago is mostly gone.
If you compare Ginza (Chinese tourists) to Shibuya (Western tourists), the impact of Westerners is far worse.
You see the same impact in other heavily touristed cities like Bangkok: Chinese stay in Chitlom, Thonglo, and Ekkamai, which are nice areas. Westerners stay in Nana, Asok, and Khao San, all of which are gross. Chiang Mai: upscale nimmanhaemin district is all Chinese tourists, and the seedy Eastern night bazaar area is all westerners.
Westerners are delusional if they think their presence is preferable for residents of East Asian cities.
The uncomfortable truth is most Chinese living in Japan are happy with fewer Chinese tourists.

说实话，我觉得西方游客更糟。至少中国游客更熟悉亚洲城市的基础设施。十五年前那种不文明行为基本已经消失了。
如果对比一下银座（以中国游客为主）和涩谷（以西方游客为主），西方游客带来的负面影响要严重得多。
在其他热门旅游城市也是一样，比如曼谷：中国游客多住在奇隆、通罗、亿甲迈这些比较高档的区域；西方游客则集中在娜娜、阿索克、考山路，全都是又乱又脏的地方。

清迈也是，高端的宁曼路一带基本都是中国游客，而东边那片乌烟瘴气的夜市区几乎全是西方人。
如果西方人真以为东亚城市的居民会更欢迎他们，那只能说是自我感觉太好了。
说个让人不太舒服的事实：大多数在日本生活的中国人，其实并不介意中国游客少一点。

@lsmn-fft
Australia
Chinese oversea usually hate each other

澳大利亚
海外华人一般都挺互相看不顺眼的

@Marcionius
"中国人不骗中国人" is a meme for a reason, I suppose.

"中国人不骗中国人"这句话成了梗看来是有原因的。

@HiddenGoose32
Not without reason. I'm an overseas Chinese who lived in the UK for 20 years, there's a reason why there's a distinct separation between the overseas Chinese population Vs the mainland population, you see this very easily in places like Chinatown.

并非没有原因。我是个在英国生活了20年的海外华人，海外华人和大陆人之间确实存在明显的区隔，这背后是有原因的。在像唐人街这样的地方，这一点很容易就能看出来。

@AdminsAlwaysRight
it’s like Chinese MAGA supporters are happy with ICE deportations until ICE comes for them.

就像一些中国的 MAGA 支持者一样，看到 ICE 驱逐别人时拍手叫好，直到 ICE 找上自己。

@aquacakra
woohoo. Osaka. here I come!!!

耶！大阪，我来了！！！

@tacodestroyer99
A snap election will test whether voters accept falling Chinese tourism as the price of Prime Minister Sanae Takaichi’s tougher security stance.
Yeah, sorry u/bloomberg, I know how much this goes against your pro-China editorial slant:
Japan's 'Iron Lady' Takaichi forges stunning election win
TOKYO, Feb 8 (Reuters) - Japanese Prime Minister Sanae Takaichi's coalition swept to a landslide election win on Sunday, paving the way for her tax cuts that have spooked financial markets and military spending aimed at countering China.
Did the Chinese not learn anything about wolf warrior diplomacy yet?
EDIT: Japan sets new tourism record even as Chinese visitors fall 45% in December

提前大选将检验选民是否愿意接受中国游客减少，作为首相高市早苗采取更强硬安全立场所付出的代价。
嗯，抱歉啊 u/bloomberg，我知道这和你们一贯的亲中编辑立场有多不对付：
《日本“铁娘子”高市早苗横扫大选，取得惊人胜利》
东京，2月8日（路透）——日本首相高市早苗领导的执政联盟在周日的大选中大获全胜，为她推进减税政策（已让金融市场感到不安）以及针对中国的军事扩张铺平了道路。

中国人难道还没从“战狼外交”里吸取教训吗？
编辑补充：尽管中国游客在12月同比暴跌45%，日本旅游人数仍创下新纪录。

@blazin_chalice
Exactly. There is no outpouring of pubic consternation or anxiety over a drop in tourists from the PRC.

没错。并没有出现公众因为来自中国大陆游客减少而产生的大规模担忧或焦虑。

@stevedisme
The cost of saving face is becoming more than the body can pay. (Edit 4 clarity-added this..) The *** has no moral capitol to draw on and finds itself bankrupt of power projection on the world stage.
Change. Is the only way. Japan's election.....Another page written in the history book of *** failure. Karma continues to find the *** losing hold, just by viewing the world through its clouded perception.

为了面子付出的代价，已经超过了现实所能承受的范围。（补充说明一下）***早已没有任何道德资本可用，在国际舞台上的影响力也几近破产。
改变，才是唯一的出路。日本的这次选举……又给***失败的历史添了一页。
因果轮回还在继续，只要***还用那种被迷雾遮住的视角看世界，它对局势的掌控就只会不断流失。(***政党或名字 上下同)

@Defiant_Quality_7557
Based on the election results, it looks like everyone’s in full celebration mode lol

看选举结果，感觉大家都已经开启了狂欢模式，哈哈

@DisastrousAnswer9920
This headline is completely wrong and backwards.
It is China that has taken the "harder line" on Japan, Chinese are welcome and they are everyday now, all Takaichi did was state the obvious that Japan and S. Korea would be heavily impacted by any aggressive actions in the straits around Taiwan, it's their duty to protect Japan's interests.

这个标题完全是反的，根本不对。
真正对日本采取“更强硬立场”的是中国。中国游客一直都很受欢迎，现在也随处可见。
高市早苗只是说了一个显而易见的事实：如果台湾（地区）海峡周边发生任何激进行动，日本和韩国都会受到严重影响。维护日本自身利益本来就是她的职责。

@Dear_Chasey_La1n
Got friends who saw tickets unilateral being cancelled for their Christmas trips to Japan. They had to rebook and confirm again that they really wanted to go to Japan and they aren't even Chinese.
China is making it pretty inconvenient to travel to Japan. Clearly this isn't just a choice made by consumers but the government that spins the weirdest stories like roaming bears has a big part in this too. It's the same last year with Thailand when suddenly Thailand was dangerous.

有朋友圣诞去日本的机票被单方面取消了，只能重新订票，还得再次确认他们“真的要去日本”，而且他们根本不是中国人。
中国现在把去日本搞得挺不方便的。显然这不只是消费者自己的选择，政府也起了很大作用，还会编一些离谱的说法，比如什么“熊到处跑”。
去年对泰国也是这样，突然就说泰国很危险。

@DisastrousAnswer9920
The funniest part was when there was a high profile robbery in Japan last week, it went viral in Chinese media until.... Oh wait, the culprits were Chinese. Oops

最搞笑的是，上周日本发生了一起备受关注的抢劫案，在中国媒体上疯狂刷屏，直到……哦等等，嫌疑人是中国人。尴尬了。

@iwanttodrink
Humanity has a duty to protect Taiwan from C

全人类都有责任保护台湾（地区），免受C的威胁。

@HotSupermarket3999
Nomura Research Institute estimates losses of about 2.2 trillion yen, potentially reducing Japan’s GDP by 0.36%. In the July–September period, spending by Chinese tourists accounted for approximately 47.2% of total inbound tourist consumption Another estimate suggests that if Chinese tourist numbers fall by 25%, economic losses would be around 1.49 trillion yen, with GDP declining by about 0.29%. Although Japanese people like to lie, financial data will not lie

野村综合研究所估算，损失约2.2万亿日元，可能使日本GDP下降0.36%。
在7—9月期间，中国游客的消费约占入境游客总消费的47.2%。另一项估算认为，如果中国游客人数下降25%，经济损失约为1.49万亿日元，GDP将下降约0.29%。
日本人可能爱说谎，但财务数据不会说谎。

@cool_lemons
The average person in Japan does not care about those numbers. They just want to be able to visit places in their country without being constantly annoyed. I've heard a lot of Japanese people saying now is the time to visit Kyoto.

日本的普通老百姓并不在乎那些数据。他们只希望能在自己国家旅游时别一直被打扰。我听到很多日本人都在说，现在正是去京都旅游的好时机。

@Blmrcn
and if Chinese tourist number falls by 50% Japan will collapse, yes
(amazing post history btw, your social credit balance keeps growing steadily)

要是中国游客数量少了50%，日本就要崩溃了，是吧。
（顺便一提，你的发帖记录真是“精彩”，社会信用分涨得挺稳的嘛。）

@HotSupermarket3999
You seem to enjoy twisting other people’s words, because I never said that “Japan would collapse if the number of Chinese tourists fell by 50%.” I merely pointed out the fact that tourist numbers have declined and the tourism industry has taken a hit. You’re free to rebut my view with data and arguments.
Second, I didn’t hide my identity. You can question or debate any of my posting history—I welcome it. But your behavior looks very similar to populists: lacking rational analysis and dialectical thinking, just impulsively venting emotional opinions, much like the MAGA (Make America Great Again) movement.

你似乎很喜欢篡改别人的言论，因为我从未说过“中国游客数量下降50%日本就会崩溃”，我只是提到日本游客数量下降、旅游业遭受挫折的事实。你可以用数据和论据反驳我的观点。
其次，我并没有隐瞒身份。你可以质疑和辩论我的任何发帖记录，我非常欢迎。
但你的行为与民粹主义者非常相似，缺乏理性思考和辩证思维，只会鲁莽地表达情绪化的观点，就像MAGA（让美国再次伟大）运动一样。

@jamar030303
Like how the "Netherlands" section opposes Dutch comments? It's not targeted towards China specifically, it's criticism.

就像“荷兰”那一栏是在反驳荷兰网友的评论一样？这并不是专门针对中国，而是一种批评而已。

@Blmrcn
I'm opposing your personal opinion, doesn't matter if you're Chinese or not.

我反对的是你的个人观点，跟你是不是中国人无关。

@pendelhaven
It's always the same group of people doing it. If you block enough of them, you get a rather sane sub. These people are never the neutral kind. The neutrals post both good and bad news and engage in conversations with nuance. They not only post bad news but also chime in with "but at what cost" comments in the good ones.
If you look at their history, some of them have a really normal posting history a few years back in subs then that has nothing to do with China or politics, but somehow pivoted hard into the anti China camp the last year, and posting in subs they have never posted in. Make of that what you will.

总是那一小撮人在干这种事。把他们多屏蔽几个，整个版块立马就清净多了。这些人从来就不是真正中立的。
真正中立的人会同时发好消息和坏消息，也能有分寸地讨论；而他们不仅只发坏消息，就算是好消息的帖子，也要跑来插一句“但代价是什么”。
翻翻他们的发帖记录就会发现，有些人几年前在一些和中国或政治毫不相关的版块里发言都挺正常的，但过去一年突然急转弯，彻底站到反华阵营，还开始在以前从没发过帖的版块里活跃。

你自己品吧。

@ONSLKW
for me its good, most likely the yen will be cheaper,
it wont stop the Chinese who can go from coming
it will stop the rest of the Chinese who dont have the means
Bloomberg

对我来说挺好的，很可能日元会更便宜。
这挡不住那些有能力来的中国人。
但会拦住那些没条件来的中国人。
彭博社

@OP
Akemi Terukina for Bloomberg News
At a wagyu restaurant in Osaka’s vibrant entertainment district, manager Ryoji Shiokawa surveys a mostly empty dining room as he contemplates his next move.
Shiokawa’s business has long relied on Chinese tour groups drawn by popular 13,000-yen ($83) steak platters, featuring sirloin, rib-eye and the chef’s recommended cut. But sales at one of his two venues are down about 30% after Prime Minister Sanae Takaichi last year suggested that a Chinese invasion of Taiwan could prompt a military response by Japan.
Amid a backlash from Beijing, Chinese arrivals to Japan have fallen sharply, prompting Shiokawa to suspend plans to boost his presence on Dazhong Dianping, a Chinese review app. Instead, he’s considering promoting his halal-certified restaurants on social media platforms popular in Islamic countries.
“Given the political situation, we’re now considering halal customers, particularly higher-spending visitors from Dubai,” says the 33-year-old, holding the door open for a family leaving after lunch on a recent Sunday. He expects the trend to last — “maybe three years.”
The economic impact of Japan’s worsening ties with Beijing is particularly acute in Osaka, which relies more heavily on Chinese visitors than most other parts of the country. A snap lower-house election on Feb. 8 will test whether voters here are prepared to bear such costs in return for Takaichi’s more hawkish stance.
It’s a high-stakes moment for Takaichi, who became leader of the ruling Liberal Democratic Party and then prime minister in October and is now seeking a clearer personal mandate. While inflation and the cost of living remain top concerns for many voters, security has emerged as a defining issue. Takaichi has argued that stronger deterrence is essential to Japan’s long-term security, even amid economic costs.

彭博新闻社 照屋明美
在大阪霓虹闪烁的娱乐区，一家和牛餐厅里，经理盐川良二环顾着几乎空荡荡的餐厅，思考着下一步该怎么走。
他的生意长期依赖中国旅游团，主打的是一份13,000日元（约83美元）的牛排拼盘，包括西冷、肋眼以及主厨推荐部位。但自从首相高市早苗去年暗示，如果中国“入Qin”台湾（地区），日本可能采取军事回应后，他旗下两家店中的一家销售额下滑了约30%。

在北京方面反弹的背景下，赴日中国游客数量大幅下降，盐川也因此暂停了在中国点评平台“大众点评”上加大推广的计划。取而代之的是，他开始考虑在伊斯兰国家流行的社交媒体上推广自己获得清真认证的餐厅。
“考虑到当前的政治局势，我们现在把目标转向清真客群，尤其是来自迪拜、消费能力更强的游客。”这位33岁的经理在一个周日午后为一家人开门送客时说道。他预计这种趋势还会持续，“可能三年吧”。

日本与北京关系恶化带来的经济冲击，在大阪尤为明显。与日本其他地区相比，这里对中国游客的依赖更高。2月8日即将举行的众议院提前选举，将检验当地选民是否愿意为高市更强硬的对华立场承担这样的代价。
这对高市来说是一个关键时刻。她在去年10月成为执政的自民党总裁并出任首相，目前正寻求更明确的个人授权。尽管通胀和生活成本仍是许多选民最关心的问题，安全议题却正在成为决定性因素。高市主张，即便要付出经济代价，加强威慑力也是日本长期安全所必需的。

@stevedisme
Too bad for the ***, a resounding win for Takaichi. More proof, that the *** looks through rose colored glasses.
Shocked by the result. Maybe, shamed by the result? Right over there....there is a nice lil area far away from 9-Dash where you can lay down.

对***来说真是倒霉，对高市早苗来说则是一次响亮的胜利。又一次证明，***总是戴着玫瑰色眼镜看世界。
对这个结果感到震惊？也许是觉得丢脸吧？那边就有一小块不错的地方，离“九段线”远远的，你可以躺那儿歇着。(***政党或名字 上下同)

@Shriek_Opposite_8096
10 dash now. They changed it to 10 dashes recently.

现在是10段线了。他们最近改成这样的。

@999Sepulveda
play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

自作自受。

@iwanttodrink
China is in the FO stage after FA

中国现在处在FA之后的FO阶段。 （注：大约是先发攻击/第一轮冲突”（FA）之后，进入“全面公开对立/彻底撕破脸”（FO）的阶段）

@999Sepulveda
Why’s the problem? Chinese tourists can visit other countries. Osaka restaurants going to relocate now?

这有什么问题？中国游客可以去别的国家啊。大阪的餐馆现在要搬走吗？

@Worth_Hearing1422
You are in a US controlled platform, what do you expect?

这是一个由美国掌控的平台，你还能指望什么呢？