美知乎问答:与中国和日本相比,印度为何如此落后? 印度网友:中国是个例外,印度才是常态
Why is India so backward compared to China and Japan?
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美知乎上印度网友讨论为什么印度落后于中日....
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For purpose of argument I propose to exclude Japan, a nation that began industrialization as early as in the late 1800s ,nearly 50 years before India and China even came into existence (Despite the War and the nuclear devastation)
You have it wrong
India is not backward compared to China
China has risen so rapidly that India looks backward
基于论证目的,我提议将日本排除在外,该国早在 1800 年代末就开始工业化,比印度和中国作为国家的存在(尽管经历了战争与核毁灭)早了近 50 年。
你理解错了,与中国相比,印度并非落后。
中国崛起如此迅猛,才使得印度显得落后。
India is not a bad place
For its huge size and population, India is moving in exactly the direction, it is expected to be moving
Slow, cumbersome, disorganized, inefficient yet with stability one step at a time
India is exactly what it is supposed to be
印度并非一个糟糕的国度。
以其庞大的疆域与人口规模而论,印度正朝着预期中的方向稳步前行。
步履虽缓、体系繁冗、缺乏条理、效率欠佳,却在一步一个脚印中保持着令人安定的节奏。
印度,恰好活成了它本该成为的模样。
A Low value economy, constrained by population, with a lot of government spending, fiscal deficits, welfare checks, struggling with development issues and very possibily end up as a middle income economy without managing a complete medium value transition
India mirrors the journey of Indonesia, Brazil, Turkey, Thailand, Philippines and other countries
Economies burdened with colonial legacy, structural weaknesses, inefficiency but also with an overall sense of stability
一个受人口制约的低价值经济体,依靠政府大量支出、财政赤字与福利救济勉强维持,深陷发展困局,极有可能在尚未完成中等价值转型的情况下,最终沦为准中等收入经济体。
印度正重复着印度尼西亚、巴西、土耳其、泰国、菲律宾等国的老路。
背负殖民历史包袱的经济体,存在结构性缺陷且效率低下,却整体维持着脆弱的稳定状态。
In the world of Harry Potter, India gets an ‘Acceptable’
Given the flaws, Indias stability in itself is an asset when you see it's neighboring countries - Pakistan and Bangladesh
A Nuclear program, IITs, A Space program, The ability to provide food and employment without descending into anarchy, are all positive attributes
在《哈利·波特》的魔法世界里,印度只能获得"及格"的评级。
考虑到这些缺陷,在与邻国巴基斯坦和孟加拉国比较时,印度的稳定本身就是一项资产。
核计划、印度理工学院、太空计划、提供粮食和就业机会且未陷入无政府状态的现状,这些都是印度的积极属性。
China is the outlier
The Student who ‘Exceeded Expectations’ in a way that could not be imagined
China did the impossible
China was burdened with far more baggage - A Similar colonial legacy, inefficiency, structural weaknesses, and a lack of stability relative to India
To reduce this burden, eliminate it in several areas and rise to it's present position is a ‘One in a Billion Cosmic Fluke' especially with a communist Government
中国是例外。那个以"超越期待"的方式达到了令人难以想象的成就的学生。
中国完成了不可能的任务。
中国背负着远比印度更沉重的历史包袱——相似的殖民遗产、效率低下、结构缺陷以及相对缺乏稳定性。
在gcd政府的领导下,中国通过减轻并消除多领域的历史负担,最终崛起至今日之地位,堪称"亿万分之一的宇宙奇迹"。
It is entirely because of China's extraordinary rise that India even began to see ambitions of a future as more than a comfortable middle income nation with tolerable unemployment , sufficient food production and a large population driven consumer market
The States did not expect China to be sharing a G2 podium
It was supposed to be the States, Europe, Russia, Friendly Asians (Japan, Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea) and only then the Third world
正是由于中国的非凡崛起,印度才开始不满足于仅仅作为一个中等收入国家——拥有尚可接受的失业率、充足的粮食生产和由庞大人口驱动的消费市场——而是怀揣着更高远的未来雄心。
美国未曾预料到中国会跻身 G2 阵营。
世界格局本应是美国、欧洲、俄罗斯、友好的亚洲国家(日本、新加坡、台湾(地区)、韩国),而后才是第三世界。
People like Kanthaswamy Balasubramaniam make the cardinal mistake of thinking what China did was the norm and what India is doing is ‘Backward’
The reality is what India is doing is the ‘Norm' and what China did was absolutely extraordinary
KB sir thinks just because a poor tribal village student managed to ace the JEEs and finish with a 8.5 CG , there must be something wrong with all the tribal villager students who don't perform at the same level
He is wrong
像Kanthaswamy Balasubramaniam这样的人犯了一个根本性错误:认为中国的做法是常态,而印度的做法是"落后"。
事实是,印度的做法才是"常态",而中国的做法绝对是超乎寻常的。
KB 先生认为,仅仅因为一个贫困部落乡村学生成功在 JEE 考试中脱颖而出并以 8.5 的平均绩点毕业,所有表现未达同等水平的部落乡村学生就一定存在问题。所以他的观点是错的。
The Average Tribal Village student would be regarded great if he manages to clear a basic 12th standard syllabus with 60 per cent marks and get a gainful job and is able to improve his life and that of his family
The point is not 'India made several mistakes because of which it couldn't become like China'
The point is ‘China made several astonishing moves because of which it did not end up like India'.
如果一位部落村落的学生能掌握基本的 12 年级课程大纲并取得 60分、找到一份有收入的工作,并能改善自己和家人的生活,这就算非常了不起了。
问题的关键不在于“印度因为犯下几个错误而未能变得像中国那样”。
真正的关键在于“中国采取了几项惊人的举措,因此没有沦落到像印度那样”。
Question : Can India change it's trajectory and start looking at a Chinese story?
India needs to understand that what India is aiming for is not it's normal destiny. It is a destiny which requires not just a change from its present trajectory but a phenomenal divergence
问题:印度能否改变其发展轨迹,开始迈向中国式的成就?
印度需要认识到,它所追求的目标并非其固有的宿命。这一命运不仅要求它改变当前的发展路径,更需要实现一次非凡的跨越。
Indians who say ‘We were backward’ should instead realize ‘The Chinese were extraordinary'
It is possible for India to end up somewhere like China but it would be a ‘Twenty Billion to One' Cosmic Fluke
Twenty times harder than the Chinese managed in their journey.
那些声称“我们曾落后”的印度人更应意识到:“中国人取得了非凡的成就”。
印度有可能最终达到与中国相似的境地,但这将是亿万分之一的宇宙奇迹。
比中国在其发展历程中取得的成就要艰难二十倍。
Please note - I am not promoting pro China narratives here nor am I a CCP agent . China has its flaws, yet China has done what was regarded unthinkable - to build itself into a powerhouse without a G7 umbrella (Defense and Economy both) with a communist State Controlled System.
Indians must realize that rather than follow the narrative that India is the one with the problems, they must seen that China is the one with the extraordinary success
That would give a different frx of mind, and allow India to see China as an inspiration rather than as a constant reminder of Indias own failure (A Narrative promoted by Kanthaswamy Balasubramaniam)
请注意——我在此并非宣扬亲华叙事,也非中G代理人 。中国有其缺陷,然而中国已完成了曾被视作不可思议的壮举:在没有七国集团庇护(国防与经济皆是如此)的情况下,通过共产主义国家控制的体制,将自己建设成一个强国。
印度人必须认识到,与其跟随那种"问题出在印度"的叙事,不如看清中国才是那个取得非凡成就的国家
这会带来心态上的转变,使印度将中国视为激励的榜样,而非时时提醒自身失败的参照(如Kanthaswamy Balasubramaniam所宣扬的叙事)。
Kadinkai · Wed
While it is true that China exceeded expectations, it has indeed grown faster and maintained that for longer than anyone had expected, but India has under-achieved.
Take a simple measurement, the Global Hunger Index.
In 2025, it ranked 102nd out of 123 countries. 12% of the population is undernourished, 33% of children stunted and 19% of children wasted.
尽管中国确实超出了预期,其增长速度之快、持续时间之久远超任何人的想象,但印度却未能充分发挥潜力。
举个例子,全球饥饿指数这一简单衡量标准。
2025 年,印度在全球 123 个国家中位列第 102 名。该国 12%的人口营养不良,33%的儿童发育迟缓,19%的儿童消瘦。
If we compare India’s GDP per capita to say Cambodia which has a slightly lower GDP per capita, then only 5% of the population is undernourished, 22% stunted and 10% wasted.
Yes, population size matters. But with 1.4b population the nearest is China. In terms of data, China is ranked in the top 25 collectively because hunger isn’t an issue in China.
The next nearest in terms of population is the United States which is also in the top 25.
若将印度的人均 GDP 与略低的柬埔寨比较,后者营养不良人口仅占 5%,发育迟缓儿童占 22%,消瘦儿童占 10%。
诚然,人口规模至关重要。但人口 14 亿的邻国中国,各项数据均位列全球前 25 位——因为饥饿问题在中国已不复存在。
就人口规模而言,最接近的国家是美国,它同样位列前 25 名。
Following that it’s Indonesia with 276m population which also beats India ranking 70th, with 6.3% undernourished, children 23% stunted and 8% wasted.
So, India is underachieving. In terms of population, its nearest peers do better and in terms of GDP per capita its nearest neighbours also perform better.
Hence India is actually underperforming.
紧随其后的是印度尼西亚,拥有 2.76 亿人口,其排名优于印度的第 70 位,营养不足人口比例为 6.3%,儿童发育迟缓率为 23%,消瘦率为 8%。
因此,印度的表现不尽如人意。在人口规模相近的国家中,其他国家表现更佳;在人均国内生产总值相近的国家中,周边国家也表现更好。
因此,印度的实际表现其实不佳。
Syed Faraz · Thu
You are entirely wrong here.
What India is doing is normal, and China is an exception.
You should see East Asian nations and South East Asian nations. They have progressed at a remarkable pace 8-10% GDP growth rate with good governance, be it dictatorship or democracy and have nominal per capita GDP above $6,000 and are more near to middle-income status. India is good compared to only Bangladesh and Pakistan, not compared to South East Asian nations and especially East Asian nations.
“印度的表现是常态,中国的情况则是个例外。”你在这点上完全错了。
你应当看看东亚国家和东南亚国家。不论在独裁还是民主体制下,只要治理得当,它们都以惊人的速度发展,GDP 增长率达到 8-10%,人均名义 GDP 超过 6000 美元,更接近中等收入水平。相比之下,印度仅仅优于孟加拉国和巴基斯坦,却无法与东南亚国家,特别是东亚国家相提并论。
JK· Thu
I wish I were wrong, but seeing India’s day by day degradation, I expect nothing positive to come out of it. People like me may have profited under the current dispensation, yet in the end, backwardness affects us all.
但愿是我错了,但目睹印度日渐衰败,我对它已不抱任何积极期望。像我这样的人或许在当前体制下有所获益,可归根结底,落后终将波及我们每一个人。
AKS · Thu
Most astonishing feature of Chinese development is the technological advancements. We have never ever heard about a single Chinese scientist but here they are standing neck to neck with USA in most of the high tech areas.
中国发展最令人惊叹的特征在于技术进步。我们从未听说任何一位中国科学家,但他们已在大部分高科技领域与美国并驾齐驱。
Dr Karan Shanmugam · Wed
Though sounds logical and grounded, with due respect, if you have lived in India (I am happy for you not doing so) in this last decade you would completely disagree with this answer. Your dad also was in the same vein till covid times. Now he (we) have seen how rot is set here.
尽管听起来合理且有依据,但恕我直言,如果你过去十年生活在印度(我很庆幸你没有),你会完全不同意这个回答。我的父亲在新冠疫情前也是同样的想法,但现在他(我们)已经看清了这里腐败丛生的现实。
Alexander Warhammer· Thu
I don't know, but for most Chinese people, China's rise is a natural progression. From a young age, we are taught that China is a great country, standing at the top of the world for a long time. It was only the century of humiliation after the Opium Wars and self-isolation that led to its backwardness and invasion. We should all strive for the rejuvenation of our nation. Sorry, I didn't quite understand this when I was younger; I just complained about not being born in the Western world. Now I'm slowly beginning to understand.
不清楚,但对大多数中国人来说,中国的崛起是自然而然的历程。我们从小就被教导中国曾长期屹立于世界之巅,是鸦片战争后的百年屈辱与闭关锁国导致了落后挨打。我们都应为民族复兴而奋斗。说来惭愧,我年轻时不太理解这些,只会抱怨自己为何没有生在西方世界。如今才渐渐明白其中深意。
Feng Lu· Wed
A Chinese person agrees with your point of view.
China is a miracle, not the norm.
One major reason is that China has been a centralized state since 221 BC. Therefore, for China, centralized power is the best system; but for most countries, centralized power would be a disaster.
作为一位中国人我同意你的观点。中国是一个奇迹,而非常态。
一个主要原因是,自公元前 221 年以来,中国一直是一个中央集权国家。因此,对中国来说,中央集权是最好的制度;但对大多数国家而言,中央集权将会是一场灾难。
Imtihaz Ahmed · Wed
I disagree Karthik… KB sir criticises India because inspite of rampant corruption and backwardness and clear third world symptoms it still believes it is some great world class nation and a vishwaguru…it is the mindset which is the problem,when you have a clear example in the form of your neighbour who exceeds even developed world in many terms,you should be wary, concious and push hard to become same… India and Indians’ mentality is the issue here.. That doesn't change irrespective of how much of sugar coating you do… Our population is so big that even if 25% of us are 4th worlders,that is still bigger than any full country on this planet except China and USA… On a per capita basis,we may not rank in the worst,but our total base is soo big to outrank any country…
我不同意Karthik的看法...KB 先生批评印度,是因为尽管腐败横行、落后问题突出,且明显具有第三世界的特征,但印度仍自认为是伟大的世界级国家乃至"世界导师"——这种心态本身就是问题所在。当你身边就有邻国这样的鲜明例证,其在许多方面甚至超越发达国家时,你本应保持警惕、清醒认识,并奋力追赶...印度和印度人的思维模式才是症结所在。
无论你如何粉饰,这一点都不会改变...我们的人口基数如此庞大,即便只有 25%的人处于"第四世界"水平,其绝对数量仍超过除中美外地球上任何国家的总人口。虽然人均水平我们或许不至垫底,但我们庞大的总基数足以让任何国家相形见绌...
Talk to any upper middle class or rich person in North India or Central India and they believe India is the best,God knows what is their metric for this conclusion..
India as a country will always be better,when it believes that the current existence isn't good and it can be better, instead of accusing someone of some agenda… On what basis,will I be pro Pakistan or anti India,when the development will hit my own colony and area and I live a very convenient life without chances of complaint…
在印度北部或中部,与任何中上层或富人交谈,他们都认为印度是最棒的——天知道他们得出结论的依据是什么。
只有当印度意识到现状并不完美且有改进空间时,这个国家才能变得更好,而不是指责他人别有用心。试想,当发展惠及我所居住的区域,生活便利得无可挑剔,我怎么可能无缘无故支持巴基斯坦或反对印度呢?
Prakhar Saini· Thu
India is not backward compared to China
China has risen so rapidly that India looks backward
Is it just me, or do these statements mean the same thing?
与中国相比,印度并非落后。中国崛起如此迅猛,才使得印度显得落后。
是我的错觉,还是这两段陈述表达了相同的意思?
Karthik Bala· Thu
Hi Prakhar
Statement 1: India is doing reasonably ok. Life improving. Cities changing. Yet there are many terrible problems that make the citizens frustrated. China has done brilliantly. Something extraordinary. Let's talk to China / see what China did and try to do something similar. China must be our role model.
Let's do a strength and weakness analysis on China and see what we need to do. It's a Himalayan task.
你好,Prakhar,
观点一:印度的表现尚可。生活水平在改善,城市在变化。然而,仍存在许多令人沮丧的严重问题。中国的成就堪称卓越,实属非凡。我们应该与中国交流/借鉴中国的经验,并尝试采取类似的做法。中国理应成为我们的榜样。
让我们对中国进行优势与劣势分析,看看我们需要做些什么。这是一项艰巨如喜马拉雅山的任务。
This Statement is factual. It points out to Indias growth being regular, Examining Indias flaws with a serious magnifying glass, Chinas growth being extraordinary, trying to analyze strengths and weaknesses of China and admitting that doing what China did is a Himalayan task
It is a productive process
It allows people to think and discuss
这一陈述基于事实。它指出了印度的增长趋于平稳,通过严谨的放大镜审视印度的不足,中国的增长则显得非凡,努力分析中国的优势与劣势,并承认要达成中国那样的成就是一项艰巨如攀登喜马拉雅山的任务。
这是一个富有成效的过程。这为人们提供了思考和讨论的空间。
Statement 2 (KB Sir) : India has failed to deliver. India is where India is because of Democratic elections. Indian leaders are pathetic. Indian voters are pathetic. China achieved their goals because of Communism, because they executed corrupt people and because of one single man. India and China started at the same time but China reached its goal through Communism & revolution and India failed to reach its goal and stagnated because of democracy, modi, stupid citizens who are unfit to vote who vote in unfit leaders.
观点二(KB 先生所述):印度辜负了期望。印度之所以处于当前状态,是因为民主选举。印度的领导者令人悲哀,印度的选民同样令人悲哀。中国之所以能实现其目标,是因为共产主义,因为他们惩治了腐败分子,更因为有一位核心人物。印度和中国几乎在同一时间起步,但中国通过共产主义和革命达成了目标,而印度则因为民主制度、莫迪以及那些不配投票却选举出不称职领导者的愚蠢公民,未能达成目标并陷入停滞。
This Statement is misguided and the product of real frustrations of an Indian living in India. It sees China , not as a country that did something extraordinary but as a country that reached its natural place because of a system of governance and because of revolution. It sees India, not as a country which developed in its own way but with enormous structural flaws, but as a failed country because of its people and its system
It is an unproductive process
It causes people to be defensive, angry and accuse him of being a Chinese agent because he appears to be endorsing Communism & revolution, rather than applaud the extraordinary performance of the Chinese government or people.
这一声明带有误导性,反映了生活在印度的印度人真实的挫败感。它将中国视为一个因特定治理体系和革命而到达其自然位置的国家,而非一个创造了非凡成就的国家;它将印度视为一个因其人民和制度而失败的国家,而非一个虽以自身方式发展但存在巨大结构性缺陷的国家。
这是一个无效的过程。这会让人们产生防备心理,并愤怒地指责他是中国代理人,因为他似乎是在支持共产主义和革命,而不是赞扬中国政府或人民的非凡成就。
Statement 3 (KB Sirs adversaries Subramaniam, Dr Strange) : China is India's enemy. China has poverty too. China has the same flaws as India does. China has opacity. Chinas technology is incomparable to American technology. Chinas growth is exaggerated. Chinas success is questionable. If China achieved this growth, India can do so too, it's just a question of time. India meanwhile is doing absolutely fine and the reason is because of Modi whilst the previous governments were all inefficient and failures.
观点三(KB先生的反对者Subramaniam、Strange先生):中国是印度的敌人。中国也有贫困问题。中国存在和印度一样的缺陷。中国缺乏透明度。中国的科技无法与美国相提并论。中国的经济增长被夸大了。中国的成功值得怀疑。如果中国能做到这种增长,印度同样也可以,这只是一个时间问题。与此同时,印度目前做得绝对好,原因在于莫迪,而之前的政府都效率低下且一事无成。
This Statement is misguided and wildly inaccurate. It intentionally places Chinas achievements as ordinary and something India is perfectly capable of replicating. It says Chinas pace of achievement is a major problem and Indias probability of achieving the same thing more slowly and steadily in the future is taken for granted. It also emphasizes on this happening because of the Modi Government.
It causes people who actively see the many problems in India to accuse these people of being Shills, jingos and a bunch of other stuff. They seem blind to Indias problems or how serious they are and ridiculously dismissive to Chinas most extraordinary achievements, whilst picking on an American sense of superiority
这种说法存在误导性,且极为不准确。它故意把中国的成就说成是普通的、印度完全能够复制的。它声称中国的成就速度是个大问题,而印度在未来更缓慢、更平稳地取得相同成就的可能性被认为是理所当然的。它还强调这要归功于莫迪政府。
那些清楚地看到印度诸多问题的人们,会因此指责那些人对印度的困境视而不见,或对其严重性浑然不觉,同时对中国的卓越成就嗤之以鼻,却摆出一副美式优越感的姿态。
It is an unproductive process
Statements 2 & Statements 3 , made again and again, will raise the conflict tempo to alarming levels (person hostility, spaces to abuse each other) while achieving absolutely nothing concrete.
Statement 1 will lead to reasonable debate, points accepted, points conceded, points rejected and lead to a decent conclusion (Probably - China did extremely well, India has a herculean task to do so, India had these weaknesses to remove, India needs to being in these reforms of the Chinese, India needs to take care of these things which might cause the Chinese some future issues)
这是一种毫无成效的过程。反复重申的观点 2 和观点 3,只会将冲突推向令人担忧的高度(个人敌意、相互攻击的空间),而实际上却毫无具体成果可言。
观点 1 则能引发理性的讨论,各方或接受、或让步、或反驳不同论点,最终达成一个合理的结论(很可能是:中国做得极为出色,印度面临艰巨任务需消除自身弱点,需借鉴中国的改革经验,并需关注那些可能给中国未来带来麻烦的问题)。
Hank Barley· 21h
The OP and the commenters spent time focusing on China’s economic achievements. Yes, they are bordering on miracles, especially eliminating poverty. However, since the first time I landed (1993) in China I always believe something like that will happen one day. One can feel the spirit of the people and the underlying power of that society that will allow that nation to climb to the apex again. It is the same force that kept the nation from splintering when the colonialists tried their best to carve it up. What really amazing though (which question if anyone, not just India, can follow the model) is how gutsy the country and the leaders were/are. Take the Korean War. China were forced to join that conflict when the ultimate power at the time, the US, led a UN force not just to pick sides in the Korean peninsula, but pushed into the Chinese border. This was just one year after the founding of the nation and a century of fighting wars with the colonialists and civil wars. It wasn’t just gutsy to fight the world’s greatest powers then, but almost pushed them into the ocean. The US forces with the world best and most weapons were able to held on the last few miles and pushed back, but China was able to keep the combined forces at the original border of the two Koreas and earned a draw. All with no heavy weapons, but just mostly light infantry arms. Then, China didn’t succumb to Russian domination even though the split put her economy in jeopardy, and at the same time, the west imposed sanctions. She wasn’t going to compromise on her sovereignty, but the experience taught them how to be self-reliance. In domestic politics, it went through 10 years of exorcise. Regardless of which side you favored the outcome is that they emerged with a clear understanding and vision of what to achieve. Today, entrepreneurship and mercantilism are driving the economy, but the government will step in and introduce rules to ensure the little guys are not being taken advantage of, not too much anyway. So, will India or anyone else willing to bear the level of sacrifices to get to where China is? You know the answer to that.
提问者和评论者们花了大量时间关注中国的经济成就。是的,这些成就近乎奇迹,尤其是消除贫困方面。然而,自从我首次踏上中国土地(1993 年)以来,我一直相信这样的事情终将发生。人们能感受到这个民族的精神和社会的深层力量,这种力量将使这个国家重新攀登至巅峰。正是这股力量,在殖民者竭力瓜分中国时保持了国家的完整。但真正令人惊叹的(这让人质疑任何国家——不仅仅是印度——能否效仿此模式)是这个国家及其领导人的胆识与魄力。
以朝鲜战争为例:当时中国被迫参战,世界上最强大的美国率领联合国军不仅在朝鲜半岛选边站队,更将战火推至中国边境。而此时距离新中国成立仅过去一年,整个国家刚经历了一个世纪的反殖民战争和内战。当时的中国不仅敢于对抗世界最强力量,更几乎将其逼入绝境。 美国军队拥有全球最优、数量最多的武器,却只能在战线最后几英里处坚守并后退,而中国却能将联军阻挡在朝鲜两国原有的边界线上,最终打成平手。
这一切并非依靠重型武器,而主要凭借轻步兵装备。随后,中国即便因与苏联决裂导致经济岌岌可危,再加上西方制裁,也未曾屈服于苏联的控制。它不愿在主权问题上妥协,这段经历却教会了它如何自力更生。在国内政治领域,中国经历了十年动荡。无论你站在哪一方,结果是中国以清晰的目标和远见重新站起。如今,企业家精神和重商主义正在推动经济前行,但政府会适时介入并制定规则,确保普通百姓不致被过度剥削,起码不会太过分。那么,印度或其他国家是否愿意付出同等程度的牺牲来达到中国的成就?答案显然不言而喻。
RK· 21h
Hi Karthik Bala I largely agree with your post—particularly your observation that India’s trajectory closely resembles that of countries like Indonesia, Brazil, Turkey, Thailand and the Philippines rather than China.
China’s rise is often cited as the benchmark but that comparison itself is flawed. China is more like a sprinter that finished its 100-meter dash early by leveraging an authoritarian system capable of executing decisions rapidly, often without public consent or institutional or opposition friction. India, on the other hand, is a marathon runner. Its progress may appear slower, but it is more organic, resilient and sustainable in the long run.
Karthik Bala,我大致同意你的观点——特别是你提到印度的发展轨迹更接近于印度尼西亚、巴西、土耳其、泰国和菲律宾等国,而非中国。
将中国的崛起作为参照基准本身就存在缺陷。中国更像是一位短跑选手,通过利用一个能够在没有公众同意、制度性约束或反对派阻力的情况下快速执行决策的威权体制,提前完成了自己的百米冲刺。相比之下,印度则是一位马拉松选手。它的进步可能看似缓慢,但从长远来看却更加自然、更具韧性和可持续性。
Democracies, by design, move slowly. Every major decision is debated, scrutinized, challenged in courts and contested politically. That friction is a feature of democratic process and slows down decission making process. The real problem arises when the opposition reduces itself to a single function: reflexive obstruction. When challenging every policy becomes the default position, governance slows further, not because the idea is flawed but because political incentives reward delay over contribution. Thats how our current opposition work even challenging ruling party over things like did Indian army actually damaged our enemies assets.
民主体制本质上就是行动迟缓的。每一项重大决策都要经过辩论、审查,在法庭上接受质疑,在政治上受到挑战。这种阻力是民主进程的特点,自然会延缓决策过程。真正的问题出现在反对派将自己简化为单一功能时:即本能性阻挠。当反对每项政策变成默认立场,治理会进一步放缓——并非因为政策构想有误,而是因为政治激励更青睐拖延而非建设性贡献。我们当前的反对派正是如此运作,甚至质疑执政党诸如印度军队是否确实摧毁了敌方资产等议题。
India hasn’t reached its pinnacle yet and its a steady progress within a democratic frxwork. History suggests that marathon runners don’t peak early but when they do, they tend to last. China is not a true comparisson to India, guys like KB should understand that since its not an apple to apple comparisson.
印度尚未达到顶峰,在民主框架下正稳步前进。历史表明,马拉松选手不会过早达到巅峰,但一旦到达,往往能持久。中国与印度并不具有真正的可比性,像 KB 这样的人应该明白,这并非同类之间的比较。
Bill Chen · Wed
Well, the Malaysian, Thai, and Indonesian will disagree with you. People in their 40s, 50s and 60s (i.e. the 2 generations that lived the climb from a primarily agrarian economy) are shocked by India in the 21st century up to the present.
So India is hardly the norm, even referenced to these SEA states decades back.
好吧,马来西亚人、泰国人和印度尼西亚人可不这么认为。40 岁、50 岁和 60 岁的人(即那些经历了从以农业为主的经济体崛起的两代人)对印度直到 21 世纪的现状感到震惊。
因此,即便参照数十年前的这些东南亚国家,印度也远非常态。
Gooloo Ggg· Wed
China 1800s lost because it didn't have the science, technology expertise then for the industrial revolution IR 1.0, military advancement, etc anglos using the might of IR 1.0, the western armies came attacking with steamships, modern guns, artilleries, etc which easily defeated the Chinese…
Fast forward to 1980s, China finally reformed & opened up with the Chinese struggling & labouring by blood sweat & tears to learn, catch up & master the foregoing industrial revolution then which was IR 3.0!!
Beating all the odds, China succeeded & mastered IR 3.0 wow & now in these 2020s on the verge of IR 4.0 the unstoppable invincible Chinese are already shooting for the stars
中国在 1800 年代之所以失利,是因为当时缺乏工业革命 1.0 所需的科学技术专业知识及军事进步。利用工业革命 1.0 的力量,西方军队驾驶蒸汽船、配备现代化枪炮和火炮等先进武器前来进攻,轻而易举地击败了中国……
时光飞逝,转眼来到 20 世纪 80 年代,中国终于踏上改革开放之路。中国人民以血汗为代价,艰苦奋斗,奋力学习、追赶并掌握了此前的第三次工业革命!
面对重重困难,中国不仅成功掌握第三次工业革命的所有成果,如今在 21 世纪 20 年代迈向第四次工业革命的当口,势不可挡、锐不可当的中国人已然剑指星辰,追求更高目标。
Sandeep Deshpande· Thu
Indonesia, brazil, turkiye, Phillipines , Thailand all have higher per capita GDP than India
India is substantially better than maybe Pakistan, only slightly ahead of Bangladesh.
Don't want to promote regionalism, but India is even worse when you remove south and west regions
North is mostly dysfunctional. East is close to becoming dysfunctional.
印度尼西亚、巴西、土耳其、菲律宾、泰国的人均国内生产总值都比印度高呢,印度或许比巴基斯坦强得多,但仅略领先于孟加拉国。
虽然不想助长地域主义,但若排除南部和西部区域,印度的状况更为堪忧。
北部基本处于功能失调状态,东部也濒临失能边缘。
Moa Aier · Wed
Why was it “unthinkable” for China to achieve so much within “such a short time”? These are all relative descxtions. China was battered and shoved to the ground for about 100 years, mid 19th Century to mid 20th Century. Prior to this, China had the world’s largest economy, high trade, high innovation et al. It had the civilisational, scientific temper and the social foundations for modern development. India had none of these. India was wrapped in feudalism, caste system, deadly social evils etc. which does not allow progressive development. Even today the same social dead weight is there, like dowry, caste and untouchability, sexism etc. A year ago when the new Indian Parliament Building was inaugurated by high caste Brahmins, the President herself who is from the lower caste or untouchables was not allowed to attend the inauguration of the building in which she is supposed to be the presiding Head. There were no public protest, neither by the common people, nor by the media nor by any advocacy grouos. Comparing China-India with 1980s as a baseline is distorted.
中国何以在"如此短的时间内"取得"难以想象的"成就?这些表述都具相对性。从 19 世纪中期到 20 世纪中期,中国曾经历约百年的屈辱与衰败。在此之前,中国拥有世界最大的经济体量、繁荣的贸易体系、蓬勃的创新活力,以及支撑现代发展的文明底蕴、科学精神和社会基础。而印度从未具备这些条件——它长期被封建主义、种姓制度、严重的社会痼疾所束缚,这些枷锁阻碍着进步发展。
时至今日,社会依然背负着嫁妆制、种姓歧视、性别偏见等沉疴。就在一年前,当印度新议会大厦由高种姓婆罗门主持揭幕时,本该作为国家元首出席的低种姓(贱民阶层)总统竟被禁止入场。如此事件既未引发民众抗议,也未激起媒体或维权组织的声讨。以 1980 年代为基准线比较中印发展本身便是扭曲的对照。
Sampath Kumar · Wed
Actually, India has far more diversity in terms of ethnicity and Geography. Majority of China has centralized culture and hence their visionary leaders adopted socio-economic policy and built around that. While India suffered from diversified cultures and religions and on top of that we did have visionary but nobody carried it forward.
The dishonesty and corruption has its roots everywhere in India now.
实际上,印度在种族和地理方面远为多样化。中国的文化大多集中于中央集权,因此其远见卓识的领导者采纳了社会经济政策并围绕此展开建设。而印度则受困于多元文化和宗教,更糟的是,我们虽有远见者却无人将其发扬光大。
如今在印度,欺诈与腐败已经深深植根于各个角落。
Son of India · Thu
China IS 50 YEARS AHEAD OF US, BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE CROOKS LIKE THE BJP/ RSS/ VHP/ BAJRANG DAL TERROR GROUPS. Chinese ARE SINCERE TO THEIR WORK, BUT OUR POLITICIANS ARE SINCERE, TO GRAB POWER AT ANY COST, THAT IS WHY CORRUPTION IS AT ITS ZENITH.
中国领先我们五十年,因为他们没有像印度人民党/国民志愿服务团/世界印度教大会/巴杰兰敢死队这类恐怖组织般的恶棍。中国人对待工作真诚务实,而我们的政客却只热衷于不择手段地攫取权力,这正是腐败现象登峰造极的原因。
Epstein Lance· Thu
This is a reasonable answer. But what China did was the norm in East Asia. IDK whether it's their genetics or culture or something else but all East Asian/Mongolid countries made rapid progress. The one feat China achieved was it's scale. It's a continent sized country with continent sized population and still they achieved extraordinary results. No other race has ever achieved such a feat not even Westoids/Caucasians.
这个答案有一定道理。但中国的成就是东亚地区的普遍现象。不知是基因、文化还是其他因素,所有东亚/蒙古人种国家都实现了飞速发展。中国创造的独特成就在于其规模——这是一个大陆级体量的国家,拥有大陆级规模的人口,却依然取得了非凡成就。其他种族从未实现过如此壮举,即便是西方人/高加索人种也未曾做到。
Miss Stripewell Follow
Japan has a per capita GDP of about $37000
China’s per capita GDP is about $13500
India’s per capita GDP is $2700
It’s like asking why your house looks so shitty compared to the person who makes 5 times more money than you or 13 times more money than you.
日本的人均国内生产总值约为 37000 美元;中国人均国内生产总值约为 13500 美元;印度的人均国内生产总值为 2700 美元。
这就像在问为什么你的房子看起来比那些收入是你的五倍甚至十三倍的人差那么多一样。
Param Vishnu Follow
Both China, Japan have spent money of transport, in villages across the country. They have invested in upgrading their skills, have improvised their tourist spots, less on cities . India has concentrated on capitals of states, local youth have been forced to get uprooted from their generations living spots. For jobs they get exploited in wages, living environments, and large capitals over crowded. Law order nuisance, amenities to be shared among lakhs, are now shared by crores of humans. Water,drainage, environment stretched beyond their limits. Centre,state elections frequently done, corruption, criminalisation, loot of treasury, frauds, misuse of agencies, jungle rule and laws prosper.
中国和日本都在全国各地的乡村交通上投入了资金。他们投资于提升民众技能,改善旅游景点,对城市关注较少。印度则集中发展各邦首府,导致当地青年被迫离开世代居住地。为了工作,他们在工资和生活环境上遭受剥削,大都市也过度拥挤。原本由数十万人分享的法律秩序与生活便利,现在却要供数亿人共享。水资源、排水系统和环境问题也已超出负荷极限。中央与地方选举频繁,腐败、犯罪化、国库掠夺、欺诈、机构滥用以及弱肉强食的丛林法则盛行。
Biresh Kumar Follow
The first one has an autocracy where decision making and implementation is fast. They consume everything . You might have heared a joke- if something have four legs and it's not a chair or table, if something swims but it's not a boat, if something flies but it's not an aircraft- they will eat that . They enforced one language, one culture, one party.
The second country you mentioned has hypothicated it's defense to a country which destroyed it's two cities for ever. Hence they have ample money to spend on R&W.
首先,专制体系的国家,其决策和执行速度极快。他们什么都会尝试。你可能听过一个笑话——如果有什么东西有四条腿但不是桌椅,如果会游泳但不是船只,如果会飞但不是飞机——他们都会吃了它。他们推行一种语言、一种文化、一个政党。
你提到的第二个国家,已将其国防假想敌设为一个曾摧毁其两座城市带给其永久创伤的国家。因此,他们有充足的资金投入到研发与战争中。
Contrary to them, we have a democraric system with three organs of government. It is based on rightfulness and justice but it delays decision making and implementation. We are a multi ethnic, multi cultural and multi lingual society. We have to keep so many things into consideration.
But you might have listen this proverb- Slow and steady wins the race
与它们不同,我们拥有民主政体,政府由三大机构组成。该体系以正当性与公正性为基础,但决策和执行进程较为缓慢。我们是多民族、多文化、多语言的社会,必须兼顾诸多因素。
不过您或许听过这句谚语:稳扎稳打,方能致胜。
Ninglum Ngangzoyo Follow
The world listen when india leader speak on the stage from Nehru to Abdul Kalam to Modi. The world hear when india cry out for aid. The world beleive india have potential in extraordinary things. The world hope india is coming up to be a super power nation. The best and oldest democracy country exist. Unique and diversity culture.
从尼赫鲁到阿卜杜尔·卡拉姆再到莫迪,每当印度领导人在台上发言,世界都会倾听。当印度呼吁援助时,世界也会倾听。世界相信印度在非凡领域拥有潜力。世界期盼着印度崛起成为超级大国。这个现存最优秀且最古老的民主国家,拥有独特而多元的文化。
However, when it comes to home background. The reality is pathetic. The ideology is divisive from north to south, east to west. India pyramid caste system is one of the worst. Politics over politics. Indira gandhi and Dr ambedkar once reiterated, it's impossible to abolish india caste system. Talking about india overpopulation, it's really abhorrence. Outside acts like unity, deep inside chaos. From BJP to INC, when one party talk on development another party mindset on distruction. As I said above, till today, india is still backward.
然而,谈及国内情形,现实情况令人心酸。国内意识形态从北到南、从东到西都处于分裂状态。印度金字塔结构的种姓制度是最恶劣的制度之一。政治之上还有政治。英迪拉·甘地和安贝德卡尔博士曾重申,废除印度种姓制度是不可能的。谈到印度的人口过剩,这种情况实在令人憎恶。表面团结,内里混乱。从印度人民党到国大党,一个政党谈发展,另一个政党却想着破坏。正如我之前所说,直到今天,印度仍然落后。
China and Japan are off course we'll develop nation. These people know how to keep clean houses and the road not like an india. These two country leader know how to shape a nation. They knows how to attracts people. That's why today, you see among the country, one of the strongest economy of the world. Ain't good on commenting too much, Let's hope for a better MIGA (make india great again) in the near future.
中国和日本当然是发达的国家。这些人懂得如何保持房屋和道路的清洁,不像印度那样。这两个国家的领导人懂得如何塑造一个国家。他们知道如何引领人民。这就是为什么今天,放眼世界,它们是世界上最强大的经济体之一。不宜过多评论,让我们期待不久的将来,印度能再次伟大。
Vinay Arya Follow
This question could become absolute controversy in this country. The answer to this question could be different from the views of different people. But I am here to combine different views from all. After this, I shall be able to give the final concluding answer. This answer is going to be a bit lengthy, but no answer could claim superiority in one word. Because the matter is too large.
这个问题在该国可能引发绝对争议。对此问题的回答可能因人而异,观点各不相同。但我在此旨在整合各方观点。在此之后,我将能给出最终结论性的答案。这个答案可能会有点长,但没有任何答案能用一句话就宣称自己优越。因为这个问题太过宏大。
The Fuhrer (German leader) during the war (1939 to 1945) claimed racial mixing in India, and claimed Japan’s dependence upon Europe, US, and UK for it’s own survival. But are his views right? Japan did benefit from trade with Europe and the British Empire. The British Empire did not tell the fortune of the Japanese Empire would depend with absolute might on the Island nation in both the world wars. However, both the countries have followed the footsteps of the British and the European powers after the downfall of the colonial powers (Britain, France, and German). But what is the connection of India with it?
战争期间(1939 年至 1945 年)的元首(德国领导人)声称印度存在种族混合,并声称日本的生存依赖欧洲、美国和英国。但他的观点正确吗?日本确实受益于与欧洲和大英帝国的贸易。大英帝国并未预言日本帝国在两次世界大战中的命运将完全取决于自己这个岛国。然而,这两个国家在殖民列强(英国、法国和德国)衰落后,都追随了英国和欧洲强国的脚步。但印度与此有何关联?
The nation of India was not independent till 1947. But so was the case with many Asian nations. Yet, Asian and many others developed exponentially right after the war (post 1945). This could be blamed on the Marshall plan. The Japanese got a lot of loan and money with the help of the United Nations. The people of India kept fighting amongst each other for dominating their kids, women, and their friends. But what kind of dominance Indians fought?
印度直到 1947 年才获得独立。但许多亚洲国家的情况也是如此。然而,亚洲及其他许多国家在战后(1945 年后)实现了指数级发展。这可能归咎于马歇尔计划。日本在联合国的帮助下获得了大量贷款和资金。而印度人民则不断为争夺对子女、妇女和友人的支配权而互相争斗。但印度人所争夺的是什么样的支配权呢?
The Indians did not know the concept of dominance. The dominance (in the Indian eyes) is completely untrue. Indians believe if a man is upon the chest of the other then the first guy is dominating the other. I have seen this throughout the modern Indian history. That is why Indians do not deserve the trust. They became scammers. Because Indians kept putting their bodies upon the chest of other Indians. This made them believe that Indians are dominating the Indians. Once they believed this, they believed that they could dominate China, Japan, UK, and US in the similar fashion. This was one of the worst belief Indians ever had.
印度人并不懂得统治的概念。在他们眼中,所谓的统治完全是虚假的。印度人认为,如果一个人踩在另一个人的胸口上,那么前者就在统治后者。纵观整个现代印度历史,我反复见证了这一点。这正是为什么印度人不值得信任。他们变成了骗子。因为印度人不断地将自己的脚压在其他印度人的胸口上。这使他们相信印度人在统治印度人。一旦他们相信了这一点,他们就相信能以同样的方式统治中国、日本、英国和美国。这是印度人曾经有过的最糟糕的信念之一。
If the Indians do not agree to accept their mistake then how could they be on the right path of dominating the world? It’s because the so called intellectuals impacted the beliefs of the Indian masses in a negative way. This caused Indians to deviate from the right path and they started climbing the chest of the other Indians. That is why India is behind China and Japan. The people there did not rise over one another’s chest. They indeed had wars but they did not rise over the chest of the other Asian to cause his downfall. This made India behind China and Japan.
倘若印度人不肯承认自身错误,又怎能走上主宰世界的正途?究其根源,某些所谓知识分子对民众信念的消极影响难辞其咎。这导致印度人偏离正轨,开始相互倾轧攀附。正是如此,印度才会落后于中国和日本。中国与日本民众从不踩着同胞向上爬,虽然历史上也有战争,但其从未通过倾轧其他亚洲民族来谋求自身崛起。这才是印度落后的症结所在。
Most of the Indians will keep giving the reasons of education, politics, roads, and many other things. But who will make those things? It’s the people. It’s the masses from which Indians could have produced right politicians, right bureaucrats, right technicians, and right artists. That is the habit of people which caused the Indian downfall. Indians keep defending themselves by putting the blames on invaders, politicians, and even educated people. Even NRIs get blamed for it. That is the reason for it.
This is an answer which does not use the rhetoric of other answers. It is the original and truthful answer combing all observations.
多数印度人惯于将落后归咎于教育、政治、道路等诸多因素。然而这一切该由谁来建设?终究是人民。印度民众本可培育出正直的政治家、廉洁的官员、精湛的技师与杰出的艺术家。正是国民积习导致印度衰落。印度人总以侵略者、政客乃至知识分子为借口自我开脱,甚至连海外印裔都成了替罪羊。这才是问题的实质。
这是一个不同于其他回答修辞风格的回答。它结合了我的所有观察,是一份原创且真实的回答。