对于去过日本、韩国和中国的外国人来说，你认为上海比东京和首尔落后、相同还是更发达？
What do Vietnamese think about the news that China is helping Cambodia build a canal?
译文简介
我在上海的经验最多，在东京有一些经验，在首尔几乎没有经验（不过很快就会改变）。
正文翻译
What do Vietnamese think about the news that China is helping Cambodia build a canal?
对于去过日本、韩国和中国的外国人来说，你认为上海比东京和首尔落后、相同还是更发达？
对于去过日本、韩国和中国的外国人来说，你认为上海比东京和首尔落后、相同还是更发达？
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Hi, Southamerican here, I haven't been to Seoul, but this year I spent ~3 months in Shanghai and ~2 weeks in Tokyo, so here go my 2cents on both cities.
In terms of technological implementation in daily life, I think they are similar in many areas, but I think SH has way better car infrastructure (in terms of highway connectivity, EVs and the generalized use of nav apps makes it a breeze to move around). Tokyo, on the other hand, has better public transport (metro+buses).
In terms of skyscrapers (?) SH has more no doubt. Housing infrastructure, I think Tokyo is more homogeneous and generally slightly better, although SH has generally bigger apartments.
As for how many foreigners are in each city, I'd say Tokyo no question. SH wasn't a foreign friendly city at all, but I genuinely think it's one of the best cities to live in if you speak mandarin.
嗨，我是南美人，我还没去过首尔，但今年我在上海待了三个月，在东京待了两周，所以我想谈谈我对这两个城市的看法。
就日常生活中的技术应用而言，我认为这两个城市在很多方面都很相似，但我认为上海的汽车基础设施要好得多（就高速公路连接、电动汽车和导航应用程序的普遍使用而言，移动起来轻而易举）。另一方面，东京拥有更好的公共交通（地铁+公交车）。
毫无疑问，上海的摩天大楼更多。在住房基础设施方面，我认为东京更为均质，总体上略胜一筹，但上海的公寓一般更大。
至于每个城市有多少外国人，我会毫无疑问地选择东京。上海完全不是一个对外国人友好的城市，但我真心认为，如果你会说普通话，它是最适合居住的城市之一。
Forget Shanghai not being a foreigner friendly city, China isn't a foreigner friendly country lol.
别说上海不是一个对外国人友好的城市，是中国不是一个外国人友好的国家哈哈。
then how come so many foreigners are saying Chinese are very helpful, friendly and hospitable?
那为什么这么多外国人都说中国人非常乐于助人、友好、好客呢？
Exactly what he said. I've been living in china for 6+ years, and Chinese people on the whole are very friendly, but dealing with anything government/state related is a huge pain in the ass for foreigners
正是他所说的。我在中国生活了 6 年多，中国人总体上非常友好，但对外国人来说，处理任何与政府/国家有关的事情都非常麻烦。
I have the most experience in Shanghai, some experience in Tokyo, and almost none in Seoul (although that will change soon).
Shanghai and Tokyo are both incredible cities. To echo another user’s sentiments, the issues I had in Shanghai didn’t stem from the city’s development itself but China’s overall policies (internet access, etc).
It’s hard to say which one is more developed than the other, as they prioritize different things. Shanghai has the easiest, safest and relatively least expensive metro system I’ve ever ridden. Everything can be accessed and paid for by phone (and has become slightly easier as a foreigner to access that system over the last year, thanks Alipay). Anything can be delivered at any time, lightning fast. It all feels very streamlined and efficient, and if you have the means you can live large in that city for relatively little. The roads are full of electric vehicles, they feel like the majority there.
我在上海的经验最多，在东京有一些经验，在首尔几乎没有经验（不过很快就会改变）。
上海和东京都是令人难以置信的城市。我赞同另一位网友的观点，我在上海遇到的问题并非源于城市发展本身，而是中国的整体政策（互联网接入等）。
很难说哪一个比另一个更发达，因为它们优先考虑的事情不同。上海拥有我乘坐过的最便捷、最安全、相对最便宜的地铁系统。所有东西都可以通过手机访问和支付（去年，作为外国人访问该系统变得稍微容易了一些，感谢支付宝）。任何东西都可以随时送达，速度快如闪电。这一切都让人感觉非常精简高效，如果你有能力，你可以花相对较少的钱在这座城市里过上大城市的精致生活。道路上到处都是电动车，感觉它们在那里占了大多数。
To contrast, Tokyo has some of the greatest access to all things pop culture (and world culture in general) I’ve ever seen. It has incredible worldly cuisine and every single pocket of the city is filled with seemingly impeccable, intentional design. And you cannot beat Tokyo when it comes to public toilets! And the politeness and orderlyness when it comes to the trains is top notch.
然而，卫生间的情况却时好时坏--有时我发现只有蹲便器，没有洗手液/厕纸。有时一个地方的公共卫生间给人的感觉无与伦比（相信我，作为一个土生土长的美国人，我知道糟糕的公共卫生间是什么样的，我们国内的卫生间一般都很糟糕）。虽然地铁既方便又安全，但它绝对是一种 “推开别人才能上下车 ”的系统--但这不仅仅是上海，而是整个中国。
相比之下，东京是我见过的最容易接触到流行文化（以及世界文化）的地方。这里有令人难以置信的世界美食，城市的每一个角落都充满了看上去无可挑剔的用心设计。说到东京的公共厕所，你是无法超越的！乘坐电车时的礼貌和秩序也是一流的。
Both feel safer than any other city I’ve been to. Both are also incredibly different from what I’m used to when it comes to living space. In America, I grew up in a nice large house, and even living on my own as an adult my shitty apartments in LA were larger than the “nice” apartments I had in Shanghai. And I’ve heard in Tokyo it’s not much better. Living space just doesn’t seem to be a priority, or everyone is used to being pushed into the space of a postage stamp, which was definitely not what I was used to.
尽管如此，我还是惊讶地发现现金在那里无处不在。有些自动售货机甚至只能使用现金/硬币。与上海相比，我感觉这是一种退步，在上海，我从来没有拿出过一美元，只是用二维码支付。这里也不像你想象的那样对外国人友好。在中国，我去的每家电影院都有英文字幕，即使是中国国产电影。东京的情况就不一样了，并不是说我责怪他们没有给电影配英文字幕。如果说有什么不同的话，那就是中国的额外包容。
这两个城市都比我去过的其他城市更安全。在生活空间方面，两座城市也都与我所习惯的生活方式大相径庭。在美国，我在漂亮的大房子里长大，即使成年后独自生活，我在洛杉矶的破公寓也比我在上海的 “好 ”公寓更大。我听说东京的情况也好不了多少。生活空间似乎并不重要，或者说每个人都习惯了被挤在邮票一样的空间里，这绝对不是我所习惯的。
Oh yeah, as for foreigners, I saw way more in Tokyo no question. The Chinese people I spoke to told me pre-Covid Shanghai had way more foreigners than they do now, and that number has apparently come way down even after they re-opened the borders. I was in both cities late last year so that’s the time frx I’m operating from.
因此，与其他地方一样，这两个城市各有利弊。与中国其他城市相比，上海无疑给人与外部世界联系更紧密的感觉，但与东京相比，仅从互联网方面来看，上海仍给人一种孤岛的感觉。我期待着有一天能再次造访这两个城市。
对了，至于外国人，毫无疑问，我在东京看到的要多得多。与我交谈过的中国人告诉我，疫情之前，上海的外国人比现在多得多，即使在重新开放边境之后，这个数字也明显下降了。我去年年底去过这两个城市，所以我是在那个时间段去的。
When it comes to metro costs, Shanghai has the same as Beijing. I don't live in Shanghai but I know years ago the cost of metro in Beijing is only 2 yuan. But I can't just ignore the cost, as it does cost. In Tianjin it is way more cheap(I don't think any foreigners will come to Tianjin except for those international students)
说到地铁费用，上海和北京是一样的。我不住在上海，但我知道多年前北京的地铁费用只有 2 元。但我不能忽视这个费用，因为它确实也是费用。在天津，地铁费用要便宜得多（我认为除了留学生，没有外国人会来天津）。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Metro in my city in Canada costs the equivalent of almost 20 RMB for a ticket! And we are still having a reliability, low ridership and funding crisis for our public transit! I've always said that we should have hired Chinese engineers and workers to build out our LRT. The companies we did hire have taken double or triple the estimated time and double or triple the estimated costs...and still many issues with the new LRT lines.
在加拿大，我所在城市的地铁票价相当于近 20 元人民币！而我们的公共交通仍然面临着可靠性、低乘客率和资金危机！我一直说，我们应该聘请中国工程师和工人来建造轻轨。我们聘请的公司所花费的时间是预计时间的两倍或三倍，成本是预计成本的两倍或三倍......但新轻轨线路仍然存在许多问题。
These are great sentiments and I love both cities (like I would guess you do). I found taxis in Shanghai to be smoky and prone to price gouging, which I never encountered in Tokyo. Didi was awesome though in China though.
这些都是很好的感想，我喜欢这两个城市（我猜你也一样）。我发现上海的出租车会冒黑烟，而且很容易宰客，这是我在东京从未遇到过的。不过滴滴在中国很不错。
You’re right, I forgot every once in a while I would get a smokey taxi. But DiDi indeed worked very well. And I loved being able to rent an Alipay bike wherever I was, it made getting to the metro a breeze
你说得没错，我忘了说偶尔会有一辆冒黑烟的出租车。但滴滴确实很好用。我很喜欢在任何地方都能租到一辆支付宝自行车，这让去地铁站变得轻而易举
I share almost the same sentiments you listed (especially Japan vs China toilets ). Wish I could upvote you twice.
我与你列出的观点几乎相同（尤其是日本与中国的厕所）。希望我能给你点两次赞。
Shanghai is a very advanced city, super cool, it is different from Tokyo, has many more sky scrapers, used to have wayyy more foreigners. But I do not know after covid. Shanghai is easily the most western of the Chinese cities. It is a very rich city
上海是一个非常先进的城市，超级酷，它与东京不同，有更多的高楼大厦，以前有更多的外国人。但我不知道在covid之后。上海是中国最西方化的城市。这是一个非常富有的城市
More developed than Seoul.
比首尔发达多了。
Yes, But old stuf in Seoul is more maintained then Shanghai
是的，但是首尔的老东西比上海维护得更好
Nailed it. Things look nice and sparkly here, but the maintenance is absolutely atrocious.
说对了。这里的东西看起来漂亮又闪亮，但维护工作绝对糟糕透顶。
I’ve lived in Tokyo and Shanghai and spent a week in Seoul before Covid.
It’s a tricky one to answer as it really depends on how you view things.
As an expat in both I’d say Tokyo is more fun and interesting and you’re never far away from a stop on the metro with something interesting right next to it. Shanghai metro is possibly better but Shanghai feels sterile and there isn’t much reason to go to most places. The internet situation holds Shanghai back a lot and makes it difficult for foreigners to access information. Shanghai is maybe more convenient with paying by phone. Pop culture and people it’s Tokyo no doubt. Chinese aren’t the most open to western ideas. Only thing I think Seoul beats Tokyo and Shanghai on is nightlife? (Some may still prefer Tokyo)
I’d probably say Shanghai is more advanced … the internet situation and the poor nightlife options makes it hard to immerse yourself and fall in love with it.
我曾在东京和上海生活过，在covid之前还在首尔待过一周。
这是一个很难回答的问题，因为这真的取决于你如何看待事物。
作为在这两个城市生活过的外籍人士，我认为东京更有趣、更好玩，你永远不会离地铁站太远，地铁站旁边就有有趣的东西。上海的地铁可能更好一些，但上海给人的感觉是死气沉沉的，大多数地方都没有什么值得去的理由。上海的互联网状况严重落后，外国人很难获取信息。上海的手机支付可能更方便。毫无疑问，在流行文化和人士上东京更胜一筹。中国人并不是最容易接受西方观念的。我认为首尔唯一胜过东京和上海的是夜生活。（有些人可能还是更喜欢东京）
我可能会说上海更先进......网络状况和夜生活选择较少，很难让人沉浸其中并爱上它。
What nightlife you looking for? Party specific? Or walking around eating around which then I cannot agree that Tokyo is better than Shanghai. Tokyo store closes earlier and only combini stays open. People disappear more quickly unless you are in Shinjuku to do party.
你在寻找什么样的夜生活？派对？还是逛吃逛吃，那我就不能同意东京比上海好的说法了。东京的商店关门更早，只有 combini 还在营业。除非你去新宿参加派对，否则街上的人很快就消失了。
Just all the bars have more energy in Shibuya / Roppongi / Shinjuku etc than anywhere in Shanghai
涩谷/六本木/新宿等地的酒吧比上海任何地方都更有活力
Well the system in that particularly area for bar hopping and partying is better. Chinese party usually is not as good. I agree with that.
嗯，那个特别适合酒吧和聚会的区域更系统和完善。中国的派对通常没有那么好。我同意这一点。
You got to be smoking something. Shanghai? Backward? In your list of cities it is the most developed. Lived there for two years.
你一定是在抽嗨了。上海？落后？在你列举的城市中，它是最发达的。我在那里住了两年。
yeah I think just a few areas of seoul are actually rich, i think quite a lot of the population are pretty poor and a pretty darn large wealth divide
是的，我认为首尔只有少数地区比较富裕，我认为很多人都很穷，贫富差距非常大。
Shanghai, where I live, is comfortable, modern, quiet and very convenient. It feels thoroughly modern, especially due to the infrastructure, which is constantly being upxed and expanded.
Tokyo to me feels nicer when I am there, cleaner but also older. There are more traditions there that are weird, outdated but just the way things are done because that's how they have been done for a long time. Examples being the lack of trash bins or the subway system with its many non-compatible lines. Tokyo has a lot more foreigners than Shanghai and is better equipped to cater to them. Foreigners do not matter in economic terms to businesses in Shanghai, so they don't cater to them.
Seoul is at times exciting and at times quaint but definitely has the grimier, grittier vibe that Tokyo and Shanghai don't have. In terms of nightlife both beat Shanghai hands down, in terms of quality of living I think Shanghai and Tokyo beat Seoul for different reasons.
Any of these cities beats any of the other cities if you speak the local language. If you just speak english you might want to get onto starting to learn one language pronto or you will be missing out on so many things that you won't even be aware of.
我居住的上海舒适、现代、安静，而且非常方便。它给人的感觉非常现代化，尤其是基础设施不断更新和扩建。
东京给我的感觉更好，更干净，但也更古老。那里有更多怪异、过时的传统，但这只是做事的方式，因为长期以来就是这么做的。例如，没有垃圾桶或地铁系统有许多不兼容的线路。东京的外国人比上海多得多，也更有条件满足他们的需求。在上海，外国人在经济上对企业并不重要，所以他们不会去迎合他们。
首尔时而令人兴奋，时而古色古香，但绝对具有东京和上海所没有的阴暗、邋遢的氛围。就夜生活而言，两座城市都胜过上海，但就生活质量而言，我认为上海和东京胜过首尔的原因各有不同。
如果你会说当地语言，这些城市中的任何一个都能胜过其他城市。如果你只会说英语，你可能需要尽快开始学习一门语言，否则你将会错过很多你根本不会注意到的东西。
Shanghai is definitely more developed than Seoul and Tokyo.
Foreigner as in not Asian looking. I think Tokyo has more. Foreigners as in anyone (including Asians) with a foreign passport I think Shanghai has more.
上海绝对比首尔和东京发达。
如果“外国人”是指看起来不像亚洲人。我认为东京更多。如果“外国人”是指持有外国护照的人（包括亚洲人），我认为上海的外国人更多。
My intuition tells me this is true.
China attracts many foreigners from the global south nowadays i believe.
Would be interesting if someone could provide the stats..
我的直觉告诉我这是真的。
我相信，如今中国吸引了许多来自全球南方的外国人。
如果有人能提供统计数据，那将会很有趣...
Shanghai is more developed than both cities. Seoul has some very developed areas but it's small in comparison to the other two, and while Tokyo is technically bigger than Shanghai in terms of its city limit/population, it is still stuck in the 2000s. Fax machines and all.
上海比这两个城市都要发达。首尔有一些非常发达的地区，但与其他两个城市相比，它的规模还很小。虽然从城市范围/人口来看，东京在技术上比上海大，但它仍然停留在 2000 年代。还在使用传真机什么的
All three are absolutely fully developed global cities by almost every metric you cite. There may be varying proportions of foreigners in each, but not my orders or magnitude. Overall, like most East Asian cities, they are mostly homogeneous compared to western cities like London, NYC and Paris, that have huge international immigrant populations. That being said each has a healthy expat community that is mostly composed of a mixture of business people and English teachers. Seoul also has the U.S. military presence, that is completely absent in China(obviously) and located elsewhere(mostly the island of Okinawa) in Japan.
从你列举的几乎所有指标来看，这三个城市在全球范围内都绝对是发达的城市。每座城市中外国人的比例可能有所不同，但数量级差别不会太大。总体而言，与伦敦、纽约和巴黎等拥有大量国际移民人口的西方城市相比，这三个城市与大多数东亚城市一样，大多是同质化的。尽管如此，每个城市都有一个健康的外籍人士社区，主要由商务人士和英语教师混合组成。首尔还拥有美国的军事存在，这在中国（显然）和日本其他地方（主要是冲绳岛）是完全没有的。