先生，介于你良好的中文水平，你能能看得懂唐帝国时期的汉语吗？如果不能，你能看懂多久以前的汉语？

Can a modern Chinese person understand and read Chinese from the Tang Dynasty? If not, how far back in time can you understand?

2024-08-16 Aya Shawn 17015 100 63 收藏纠错&举报

译文简介

AS：阅读中文有两个不同的维度。1：阅读汉字，识读古文字对大多数中国人来说并不是什么障碍，现在使用的汉字和1800年前的汉字差别不大，因此大多数中国人都能轻松识读唐代文字，而对于更早的汉字，现代中国人经过简单的学习，也能正常阅读......

正文翻译

@Aya Shawn
Yes, but it's not that easy
There are two different dimensions to reading Chinese
1: Reading Chinese characters
Reading ancient Chinese characters is not a barrier for most Chinese people. The Chinese characters used today are not much different from those used 1,800 years ago. Therefore, most Chinese people can easily read Tang Dynasty characters. For earlier Chinese characters, modern Chinese people can also read them normally after simple learning.
We can regard Chinese characters as basic words in English. Each Chinese character has its meaning. Of course, many Chinese characters have multiple meanings.
So, being able to read Chinese characters gives modern Chinese people the basic ability to understand ancient documents.

是的，但没那么容易
阅读中文有两个不同的维度
1：阅读汉字
识读古文字对大多数中国人来说并不是什么障碍，现在使用的汉字和1800年前的汉字差别不大，因此大多数中国人都能轻松识读唐代文字，而对于更早的汉字，现代中国人经过简单的学习，也能正常阅读。
我们可以将汉字视为英语的基本词汇，每个汉字都有其含义，当然很多汉字有多重含义。
所以，读懂汉字，就使现代中国人具备了理解古代文献的基本能力。

2: Reading documents
There are actually two different grammatical rules for ancient Chinese documents
A. Classical Chinese
This is an ancient Chinese grammar and rules that was born 3,500 years ago. Because paper had not yet been invented, the text was written on bronze, animal bones and bamboo slips. Writing materials were very expensive and writing was difficult. So the Chinese at that time invented classical Chinese, which is a compression algorithm: using the least Chinese characters to express the most meaning. It is completely different from the spoken language used by people in daily life, and only trained people can master it.
Therefore, classical Chinese was only mastered by scholars, students and officials who systematically studied knowledge for thousands of years. Most civilians could not read and write classical Chinese correctly.
Modern Chinese can only read classical Chinese if they have completed secondary education. Some more ancient and obscure classical Chinese can only be read by experts.

2：阅读文档
古汉语文献实际上有两种不同的语法规则
A. 文言文
这是诞生于3500年前的古老中国语法和规则。因为当时还没有发明纸，文字都是写在青铜、兽骨和竹简上。书写材料非常昂贵，书写也非常困难。所以当时的中国人发明了文言文，这是一种压缩算法：用最少的汉字表达最多的意思。它和人们日常生活中使用的口语完全不同，只有经过训练的人才能掌握。
因此，千百年来，文言文只是系统学习知识的文人、学生和官员所掌握的，大多数平民百姓并不能正确地读写文言文。
现代中国人要读懂文言文，必须受过中等教育，一些比较古老、晦涩的文言文，只有专家才能读懂。

B. Vernacular Chinese
It was born 1,600 years ago, during the Tang Dynasty. As paper became very cheap, people no longer pursued the use of the least words to express the most meaning. People wrote down their daily spoken language directly, forming vernacular Chinese. Vernacular Chinese is consistent with daily spoken language, so as long as Chinese people can read Chinese characters, they can read vernacular Chinese.
For more than a thousand years after the Tang Empire, Chinese people used both vernacular Chinese and classical Chinese. Formal official documents, literary works, poems and books often use classical Chinese. While daily life uses more vernacular Chinese.
So, if a modern Chinese sees a document from the Tang Empire,
can he read it normally? It depends on what kind of grammatical rules the document uses.

B. 白话文
它诞生于1600年前的唐朝，由于纸张变得非常便宜，人们不再追求用最少的文字表达最多的意思，而是把日常口语直接写下来，形成了白话文。白话文和日常口语是一致的，只要中国人能读懂汉字，就能读懂白话文。
唐朝以后的一千多年里，中国人既使用白话文，又使用文言文。正式的官方文件、文学作品、诗歌和书籍经常使用文言文。而日常生活中使用白话文较多。
所以，如果一个现代中国人看到一份唐朝文献，
能正常阅读吗？这要看文档用了什么样的语法规则。

Let me give you an example:
There is a sentence in Sun Tzu's Art of War

"上兵伐谋"，If I write this sentence directly in English, it is "up;Soldier;Attack;Strategy"

You can understand each word,but you don't understand the meaning of this sentence, which is classical Chinese
Translate it into vernacular Chinese:

最顶级的战争哲学，是通过智谋、策略来破坏敌人的计划和意图，使其无法实现其战略目标

English translation: "The most brilliant philosophy of war is to destroy the enemy's plan through wisdom and strategy, so that the enemy cannot achieve its strategic goals"
Classical Chinese uses 4 Chinese characters, while vernacular Chinese uses 20-30 Chinese characters. Classical Chinese is like an abbreviation of English, and it cannot be understood by ordinary people without special learning.

举个例子：
孙子兵法里有一句话
“上兵伐谋” ，这句话如果直接用英文写出来就是"up;Soldier;Attack;Strategy"
你看得懂每个词，却不懂这句话的意思，这是文言文
翻译成白话文：
最高明的战争哲学，是通过智谋、策略来破坏敌人的计划和意图，从而使其无法实现其战略目标
文言文有4个字，白话文有20-30个字，文言文就像英文的缩写，一般人不经过专门的学习是无法理解的。

In 2019, when I visited China, I found such text on a Tang Dynasty stone carving in Henan Province. This is the content written in vernacular Chinese by some Buddhist believers.
It says: I donated and carved this Buddha statue for my parents, wife and son, hoping that they will be healthy and free of disease. I am a believer, Wei Wen, March of the fourth year of Datong (March 539 AD)
As a Singaporean Chinese, I have not undergone systematic learning, I only know basic Chinese characters. But I have no difficulty reading these contents from 1,600 years ago.

2019年我去中国的时候，在河南的一块唐代石刻上发现了这样的文字，这是一些佛教信徒用白话书写的内容。
上面写着：我捐献雕刻此尊佛像，为我的父母、妻子、儿子，祈愿他们身体健康，无病无灾。我是信众魏文，大统四年三月（公元539年三月）
身为新加坡华人，我没有经过系统的古文学习，只认识基本的汉字，但读懂这些1600年前的内容却毫无困难。
PS：实际是南北朝时期，说唐代利于中国之外的人理解

But on a stone tablet just 50 meters away, they used exactly the same Chinese characters, and I could read every character. But its grammar was classical Chinese, so it was difficult for me to accurately understand the meaning of the content.

但就在50米外的一块石碑上，用了完全相同的汉字，我也能读懂每一个字，只是它的语法是文言文，所以我很难准确理解内容的意思。

Earlier Chinese characters
In this picture, I show how to write two Chinese characters, "Hourse" and "Fish".
The left is the writing of the Qin Empire (2200 years ago), the middle is the writing of the Han Empire (2000 years ago), and the right is the writing of the Tang Empire (1500 years ago-modern times).
There are differences between ancient Chinese characters and modern Chinese characters, but they are also related. So after a short period of learning, Chinese people can still read more ancient Chinese characters.

早期汉字
在这幅图中，我展示了如何写两个汉字“马”和“鱼”。
左边是秦帝国（2200年前）的文字，中间是汉帝国（2000年前）的文字，右边是唐帝国（1500年前-现代）的文字。
古字和现代字有区别，但也有联系，所以中国人经过短暂的学习，还是能认识比较多的古字的。

Conclusion:
1. If the document is from the Tang Dynasty (1500 years ago) and is written in vernacular Chinese
All Chinese people can read it smoothly, including primary school students
2. If the document is from the Tang Dynasty and is written in classical Chinese
All Chinese people can read those Chinese characters, but only people with secondary school education can understand the meaning of the document, and some content can only be understood by experts.
3. If the document is from an earlier era, such as the Qin Dynasty (2200 years ago)
Ordinary Chinese people find it difficult to directly recognize those Chinese characters and need simple training.

结论：
1. 如果该文献来自唐代（1500年前），并且是用白话文写的
所有中国人都能流畅阅读，包括小学生
2. 如果该文献来自唐代，并且是用文言文写的
所有中国人都能读懂那些汉字，但只有中学文化程度的人才看得懂文件上的意思，有些内容只有专家才能看懂。
3. 如果文献来自更早的时代，例如秦朝（2200年前）
普通中国人直接识别这些汉字有一定的难度，需要经过简单的训练。

原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

评论翻译

@Zoran Rapaic
Very nice explanation, thanks. The more I hear about China culture the more I understand different mindset and approach of that civilization.

非常好的解释，谢谢。越了解中国文化，我越能理解那种文明的不同思维方式和方法。

@John Lee
Yep. It's a pretty powerful civilizational motivator to feel like you are directly connected to a civilization that has been going for 2–3 millenniums if we are being technical(and only start counting from after the first Qin dynasty) but in reality we feel connected for 5,000+ years easily.

是的。感觉自己直接与一个延续了两三千年的文明相连，这是一个非常强大的文明动机（如果从秦朝之后开始算）。但实际上，我们感到与五千多年的历史相连，这是很自然的。

@Zoran Rapaic
Yes that also. But about language I always wondered why China, Japan, Egypt use symbols for writing and Indo-European languages use letters.
Letters sistem is definitely easier to learn and understand, but if you have melodic language like Chinese it's not sufficient because to many words have same vocals but different meanings depending on accentuation and melody. Also if your kingdom includes vast variations of dialects it becomes even more challenging - so using pictographic language is better solutions because regardless of dialects and accentuation it's have exactly same meaning.

是的，还有一点。我一直想知道为什么中国、日本、埃及使用符号来书写，而印欧语系使用字母。
字母系统确实更容易学习和理解，但如果像中文这样有旋律感的语言，这就不够了，因为许多词语有相同的发音，但根据重音和旋律有不同的含义。此外，如果你的王国包含了大量的方言变体，那就更具挑战性——所以使用象形文字是更好的解决方案，因为不管方言和重音如何变化，它们的意义都是完全相同的。

@John Lee
There's another important aspect. Continuity which allows Chinese to easily read texts that are 2000 years old, or even older. Maybe not fluently but you can guess the meaning because the pictographs look similar and the word and meaning is probably the same with just a slightly different ‘picture” like one dot or slash or line added or removed.
So while Chinese can read 2000+ year old texts and poems in their original form, can say English or Italians or whichever which uses alphabet do the same?
The grammar and way to write and talk has changed completely. It's like learning a new language basically..

还有另一个重要方面，那就是连续性，这使得中国人能够轻松阅读2000年前甚至更久的文本。也许不流利，但你可以猜出其含义，因为象形文字看起来相似，而且词语和含义大概是相同的，只是“图画”稍有不同，比如增加或去掉一个点、斜杠或线条。
所以，当中国人可以阅读2000多年前的文本和诗歌时，使用字母的英语或意大利语等语言能做到这一点吗？
语法和写作方式已经完全改变了，基本上就像在学习一种新语言一样。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

Like can someone today in England read English from 2000+ years ago? Can an Italian read Roman or whatever from 2000+ years ago? Can French or German or anyone else?
That is the beauty and strength of pictograph.
Even the writing itself is art and calligraphy. We can even see from the thickness of the strokes, the speed and pressure used, the skill and personal style of the writer by the strokes and the way they are written, just how it was written by X person milennia ago, and we can compare our current day writing and style and technique to theirs. Think like.some beautiful cursive calligraphy written in English. But for Chinese, all writing is like that basically, especially by someone using brush.

比如，现在的英国人能读懂2000多年前的英语吗？意大利人能读懂2000多年前的罗马文或其他什么语言吗？法国人或德国人或其他任何人呢？
这就是象形文字的美丽和力量所在。
即使是书写本身也是一种艺术和书法。我们甚至可以从笔画的粗细、书写时的速度和压力、笔者的技巧和个人风格来判断千年前某人是如何写下这些文字的，并将我们当代的书写风格和技巧与他们进行比较。想象一下英文中一些美丽的草书书法。但对于中国人来说，所有的书写基本上都是这样的，尤其是用毛笔书写的人。

A writing by a king or emperor for example, just even if he wrote one word, like “love” or “kill” or “beauty” or anything really. There's a profoundness in pictographs that does not exist in normal letter writing. You can see or sense someone power or intent or other emotions in their writing that doesn't exist in letters or romance language.
That would be a piece of art and national treasure today, and as a pictograph it's worth would dwarf the letter/word/alphabet example if some king just wrote one word like “love” on a piece of paper back in the day. Chinese would frx and hang it up. Others would just see it as trash scribble and it would have been lost by now even if it existed at all.

例如，某位国王或皇帝写的字，即使他只写了一个字，如“爱”或“杀”或“美”或其他什么。象形文字中存在着普通字母书写中不存在的深刻性。你可以在他们的书写中看到或感受到某人的力量或意图或其他情感，而这些在字母或拼音语言中是不存在的。
这在今天将是一件艺术品和国宝，而作为象形文字，它的价值将远远超过字母/单词/字母的例子。如果某个国王在过去的某一天在纸上只写了一个字，比如“爱”，中国人会将其装框并挂起来。而其他人可能只会把它视为垃圾涂鸦，即使它曾经存在，现在也早已遗失。

As to WHY, I guess it's because Chinese and Egypt was one of the earliest. Pictographs were the earliest writing ever afaik. And Chinese and Egyptian are the earliest ever civilizations. The first writing are all pictographs, and thus Chinese or Egyptian civilizations being the earliest civilizations have them. Im guessing even those who don't use pictographs anymore also had pictographs to start with. Like a 1 in Chinese is just “-”. A straight line. A two is “=”, and 3 is 3 horizontal lines etc.

至于为什么，我猜是因为中国和埃及是最早的文明之一。象形文字是最早的书写形式。而中国和埃及是最早的文明。因此，这两个最早的文明拥有象形文字。我猜想，即使那些现在不再使用象形文字的文明，一开始也曾使用象形文字。比如，中文的“1”就是“-”。一条直线。一个“2”是“=”，而“3”是三条水平线等。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

Japan copied their writing wholesale from Chinese, and that came much later. Like long after Jesus already so no need to talk about Japanese history since they came quite late and it all came from Chinese writing system anyway which they continue to use to this day.
Chinese also have pin yin system now, which uses English or western letters and characters, so Chinese have the best of both worlds. Pin yin is mainly used for typing on computer etc.

日本完全从中国复制了他们的书写系统，而且这个时间要晚得多，像耶稣之后很久才出现。所以不需要谈论日本的历史，因为他们来得很晚，而且他们的书写系统完全来自中国，并且他们至今仍在使用。
现在中文还有拼音系统，使用英语或西方字母和字符，所以中国人拥有两全其美的东西。拼音主要用于计算机打字等。

@Richard Lo
I only had up to 3rd grade education in Chinese and I can read a lot of classical Chinese, including classical poems, with good understanding. I think an interest in Chinese history helps.

我只接受过三年级的中文教育，但我可以阅读很多古文，包括古典诗歌，并且理解得很好。我认为对中国历史的兴趣有所帮助。

@Bo Liu

Don’t know why this guy learnt Chinese so poorly. At least the way it thinks is not what a native speaker will do. 上兵伐谋, literally translation is top-military-attacks-(by)-strategy. quite easy for any native speaker or Chinese learner to understand
不知道为什么这个人中文学得这么差。至少他的思维方式不像母语者。“上兵伐谋”字面翻译是“上等兵法是通过谋略进行攻击”。对于任何母语者或中文学习者来说都很容易理解。

@Lingbo
As a foreigner, being able to learn Chinese to this level already exceeds many Chinese people.
There is no doubt that the OP has become Quora's expert on China issues.

作为一个外国人，能学中文到这个水平已经超过许多中国人了。
毫无疑问，答主已经成为Quora的中国问题专家

@Ben Tover
TLDR
texting my friends
Writing an essay with minimum 3000 words:

（文言文）就像发4个字母的短信给我的朋友，然后要求他写一篇至少3000字的文章

@John Lee

Google translated “上兵伐谋” into “The best strategy is to attack the enemy's strategy”.

How close to the true meaning is that? Like I'm sure it's missing some nuance and specific meanings/cultural context, but does it stay true to the heart of the meaning?

谷歌翻译“上兵伐谋”为“最好的策略是攻击敌人的策略”。
这个翻译和真正的意思有多接近？我确信它遗漏了一些细微差别和特定的意义/文化背景，但它是否忠于核心意思？
@都是好事儿

Obviously, this translation goes against the original meaning. The OP's translation is very accurate, although some unnecessary modifiers are added.

很显然这个翻译违背了原意，答主的翻译是很精准的，尽管增加了一些不必要的修饰语

@Raymond Chow

It’s ture. The best method is to attack the enemy’s strategy (so that, they cannot implement their plans and deployments.) 其次伐交，其次伐兵，其下攻城: And second strategy is defeat the enemy in diplomacy, unite more allies, and play one off against the other. And slightly worse method is to launch a war and defeat the opponent's main force. The worst way is to attack the cities defended by others which requires significant casualties and may not necessarily lead to a successful outcome.
确实如此。最好的方法是攻击敌人的策略（使他们无法实施计划和部署）。其次是伐交，再其次是伐兵，最差的是攻城：其次的策略是通过外交击败敌人，团结更多盟友，并利用敌人之间的矛盾。而稍差的方法是发动战争，击败对方的主力。最糟糕的方式是攻打别人防守的城市，这需要巨大的伤亡，且未必能取得成功。

@Huayong Yang
I think it’s fairly accurate.

我认为这相当准确。

@Yaoting Ke
Not really close. If you read the next 3 parts, this actually mean the best military tactics is to use strategy. Nothing about attacking enemy’s strategy.

其实并不太接近。如果你阅读后面的三部分，这实际上是指最好的军事策略是使用谋略。与攻击敌人策略无关。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

@John Lee
Strategy in itself basically means coming up with and using a good or superior plan/method to beat the enemies plan(or strategy). If they don't have one then even better. In other words, you use your brain and plan ahead to try to think of what the enemy would do, and then counter the enemies plan(strategy) with your own. So strategy to beat enemies strategy.
So while it might be redundant, ultimately I think it means the same thing.

策略本身基本上意味着制定并使用一个良好的或更优的计划/方法来打败敌人的计划（或策略）。如果他们没有，那就更好了。换句话说，你要动脑子，提前计划，试图预测敌人会做什么，然后用自己的策略来对抗敌人的策略。所以策略是用来打败敌人策略的。
所以尽管可能有些冗余，但最终我认为这意思是一样的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

Tactics is strategy and vice versa. I define strategy as a series of tactics, and also included everything like positioning, timing, surprise, superior knowledge, etc. so to me strategy is the top level, while tactics is only one aspect of strategy.
Ie “you have a tactical strategy”. You don't really say “having a strategic tactic”. Or you have a strategy which involves lots of tactics instead of saying you have a tactic which involves lots of strategies. although you probably could, but to me it doesn't sound as correct.

战术即是策略，反之亦然。我将策略定义为一系列战术，并且包括了定位、时机、出其不意、优越的知识等一切，所以对我来说，策略是顶层的，而战术只是策略的一个方面。
比如“你有一个战术策略”。你不会真的说“有一个战略战术”。或者你有一个包含许多战术的策略，而不是说你有一个包含许多策略的战术。尽管你可能会这么说，但对我来说这听起来不太正确。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

Tactic is more isolated and a lone attack, while strategy is more big picture which includes everything from tactics(like surprise attack) to positioning of troops to timing of attacks etc.
This is reflected in chess terms also. Like using fork tactic, or pawn sacrifice tactic. Which is like a one or two move tactical shot. But strategy is much deeper concept and involves many moves if not the whole game. Like you play a slow, closed positional strategy.

战术更为孤立，是一次单独的攻击，而策略则是更大的整体，包括从战术（如突袭）到军队定位再到攻击时机的一切。
这在国际象棋术语中也有所反映。比如使用双重攻击战术，或弃兵战术。这就像是一两步的战术打击。但策略是更深远的概念，涉及许多步甚至整个游戏。就像你采取一种缓慢的、封闭的定位策略。

@Peter Tan

上兵伐谋
Without context one is left with understanding of the words. Chinese characters are often paired one could recognise a relevant pair here 兵伐 (military expedition). 谋 is plot or strategy. 上 is up and here it could mean top.
More likely the pairs are (上兵) sending in the military (伐谋) battle strategy. I would go with this but of course we need to look at the actual text to know what the “title” actually says.

Hey, I'm just giving this a shot.

上兵伐谋
在没有上下文的情况下，只能通过理解这些字词来解释。中文字符通常是成对出现的，可以在这里识别出相关的对，如兵、伐（军事远征）。谋是计谋或策略。上是向上，这里可能是指顶层。更有可能的配对是（上兵）派遣军队，（伐谋）作战策略。我会选择这个解释，但当然我们需要看实际的文本来了解“标题”实际上说了什么。
嘿，我只是试试。

@Robert Dashang
This is what I wrote about the reading of ancient China characters by modern China people. Its inscxtion comes from near the capital of Mongolia and records the history of the Han Dynasty's conquest of Mongolian grasslands and the elimination of xiongnu.

这是我写的关于现代中国人阅读古代中国文字的文章。它的铭文来自蒙古首都附近，记录了汉朝征服蒙古草原和消灭匈奴的历史。

@Wensi Zhou
If you find it hard to read Tang Dynasty text then you must have not finished primary school.

如果你觉得难以阅读唐代文字，那你肯定是小学没读完。

@Sosow Nima

The stele in front of the Buddha statue is obviously not from the Tang Dynasty, but should be from the Western Wei period. This is because the calligraphy style is very clearly that of the Wei stele, closely resembling the style of the “元怀墓志”(Yuan Huai's Epitaph), although the skill level is slightly lower.

I looked it up, and it turns out the stele is indeed from the Western Wei era (539 AD), while the "Yuan Huai's Epitaph" was created in 517 AD, about 22 years earlier.
It was likely written by someone who was learning this style of calligraphy.
I'm not an expert, just an ordinary person, but Chinese people are quite familiar with their own culture and history, to some extent considered "common knowledge."

佛像前的碑明显不是唐代的，而是西魏时期的。因为这种书法风格非常明显属于魏碑风格，与《元怀墓志》风格非常接近，尽管技艺水平稍逊。我查了一下，发现这个碑确实是西魏时期的（公元539年），而《元怀墓志》是在公元517年完成的，早了大约22年。
这碑文很可能是由一个学习这种书法风格的人写的。我不是专家，只是一个普通人，但中国人对自己的文化和历史还是比较熟悉的，这在某种程度上被认为是“常识”。

@Hu Shi xiong
…non of my copies translated those four words into a paragraph

……我所有的译本都没有把那四个字翻译成一段话

@Fan Christian Jiang
To me, that paragraph seems more like an explanation of the 4-character idiom, rather than a direct translation from classical into vernacular Chinese.

对我来说，那段话更像是对那个四字成语的解释，而不是直接从古文翻译成白话文。

@Ben Tover

The explanation includes context from art of war, but context is just 「使其無法實現其戰略目標」. The rest can still be a direct translation.
For example, I personally find it hard to translate 「其次伐交，其次伐兵，其下攻城」without context, but the context is for the whole sentence instead of just the first part.
这个解释包含了《孙子兵法》的上下文，但上下文其实只是「使其无法实现其战略目标」。其余部分还是可以直接翻译的。
例如，我个人觉得如果没有上下文的话，很难翻译「其次伐交，其次伐兵，其下攻城」，但上下文是针对整句话而不是仅仅针对第一部分。
Without context, some ppl will ask “why u messing with others”, but if you for example, convert the context 「使其無法實現其戰略目標」into 孫子曰 or smth like that, ppl will understand that this is used as an art of war. Definitely not direct translation but directly translating context is hard when ur translating for someone with no background knowledge of Chinese history.
如果没有上下文，有些人可能会问“你为什么要干扰别人”，但如果你把「使其无法实现其战略目标」转化为“孙子曰”或类似的东西，人们就会明白这是在使用《孙子兵法》。这显然不是直接翻译，但在为没有中国历史背景知识的人翻译时，直接翻译上下文是很困难的。
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@Brawijaya15
Very good explanation

解释得很好。

@Coin Zh

这里就自己的认识做一个补充，我们能不能正确解读出古代文献的意思，重点并不是文字本身，而是读者自身是否认识这个字本身（可以通过字典查阅，一个字一点定型，就不会改变）和断句的地方（非常规断句方式，普通人是需要一些训练后，才能解读正确的意思），古代文献是没有标点符号的，同一篇文章，不同的断句位置，会产生完全不同的意思解读。例：道可道非常道（古文形式），断句：1（道可道，非常道）2（道，可道，非常，道）3（道可、道，非、常道），这3种断句，就会得出完全不同的解读。

@Gerard
‘English translation: "The most brilliant philosophy of war is to destroy the enemy's plan through wisdom and strategy, so that the enemy cannot achieve its strategic goals"’
How did they get that from “up;Soldier;Attack;Strategy”? Is there a Tang-era version in vernacular Chinese?

“英文翻译：‘战争的最高哲学是通过智慧和策略摧毁敌人的计划，使敌人无法实现其战略目标’”
他们怎么从“上；兵；伐；谋”中得出这个意思的？有没有唐代白话版的？

@Aya Shawn
These four words are part of a dialogue by Sun Tzu, in which he explains the three levels of war. Its meaning can be better understood in context, I just took this small section to illustrate.
up: top, best
Soldier: military, war, fighting method
Attack: attack, execution, fighting
Strategy: strategy, tactics
Direct translation: The top fighting method is strategy
Fuller explanation(MY exp): The highest philosophy of war is to destroy the enemy's plan through wisdom and strategy, so that the enemy cannot achieve its strategic goals

这四个字是一段孙子的对白中的一部分，他在阐述战争的3个层次。结合上下文可以更好的理解它的意思，我只是截取了这一小段来举例说明。
上：顶级的，最好的
兵：军事，战争，作战方式
伐：进攻，执行，作战
谋：谋略，计策
直接翻译：顶级的作战方式是谋略
更充分的解释（我的理解）：战争的最高哲学是通过智慧和策略摧毁敌人的计划，使敌人无法实现其战略目标

@John Lee
It's just one of those common sense things. It's like someone says “I'll eat you for dinner”. Everyone knows that they don't mean they will be a cannibal and eat their opponent literally, and instead is just some friendly trash talk.
But some clueless foreigner or alien who sees such words has no understanding and will probably take it as a literal threat and statement of intent to kill and then eat them, or some serious threat when in reality it can even be a friendly trash talk with no serious threatening connotations behind it.

这只是常识性的问题。就像有人说“我晚餐要吃了你”，大家都知道这不是字面意思要成为食人族并真的吃掉对方，而只是一些友好的废话。
但是一些毫无头绪的外国人或外星人看到这些话可能不理解，可能会把它当成字面上的威胁，认为是要杀了他们然后吃掉，或者是某种严重的威胁，而实际上这甚至可能只是友好的废话，没有任何严重的威胁含义。

@Jiwei Li

兵 in the context of the art of war should be translated as warfare.
So in a sense 上兵伐谋 is quite easy to understand even by direct transliteration:

High (or supreme), Warfare, Fight(with), Strategy

在《孙子兵法》的语境中，"兵" 应该翻译为战争。
所以某种意义上，上兵伐谋即使直接译也很容易理解：
高（或最高），战争，战斗（用），策略。

@Yaoting Ke

上兵伐谋 just mean best military tactics is to use strategy to win the enemy. The full sentence should be 上兵伐谋，其次伐交，其次伐兵，其下攻城。Without the last 3 parts, the first part does not really give the context.

The full story should be The best military tactics is to use strategy, with diplomacy 2nd best, followed by military battles as the 3rd option and attack of the cities should be the last resort.

上兵伐谋的意思就是最好的军事策略是用计谋打败敌人。完整的句子应该是“上兵伐谋，其次伐交，其次伐兵，其下攻城。”如果没有后三部分，第一部分其实没有上下文。
完整的意思应该是，最好的军事策略是用计谋打败敌人，其次是通过外交，再其次是军事战斗，攻城应该是最后的手段。

@Jan Willem Nienhuys

1。 The so called vernacular Chinese translation of 上兵伐谋 is too complicated. 2。 1600 years ago is not Tang Dynasty because Tang is 618–907, including the 15 years of Empress Wu Zetian.
1。所谓的上兵伐谋的白话翻译太复杂了。
2。1600年前不是唐朝，因为唐朝是618–907年，包括武则天的15年。

@Changyu
Japan and Korea didn't even have writing before they adopted Chinese wholesale.. no?

日本和朝鲜在全面采用汉字之前甚至没有文字吧？

@Goodthins11821
In Japan and North Korea, Chinese characters are characters used by upper class people

在日本和朝鲜半岛，汉字是上层社会使用的文字。

@Yang Guo

大统四年不是唐朝，而是南北朝时期，隋朝统一之前。
建议修改。

@Hamki
Quite silly question
I am a Korean, we use Chinese character in ancient times. But recently we repealed the Chinese character. I think it's a silly and ridiculous decision.
why? Korean people can't read any ancient literatures. So multiple Korean are pompous and not have any knowledge about ancient culture. Hangul is a phonograph. the advantage is easily learning, but now, the disadvantage has appeared. It has no culture and contents.

相当愚蠢的问题
我是韩国人，我们古代使用汉字。但最近我们废除了汉字。我认为这是一个愚蠢而荒谬的决定。
为什么？韩国人看不懂古代文献，所以很多韩国人很浮夸，对古代文化没有一点了解。韩语是留声机，优点是容易学，但是现在缺点就出来了，没有文化，没有内涵。

In contrast, China not abolish Chinese character constantly, maybe it's bad for popularize at first. But it kept the unique advantage forever. And now, time tell the truth, China made a right decision at that time.
Now, almost every Chinese people can read books and poems easily, although they can date back to Tang Dynasty.

相反，中国并没有不断废除汉字，也许一开始这对汉字的普及不利。但它永远保留了汉字的独特优势。现在，时间证明，中国当时做出了正确的决定。
如今，几乎每个中国人都可以轻松地阅读书籍和诗歌，尽管它们的历史可以追溯到唐代。

As a Korean, To be honest, I admire China, I envy the abundance of their culture. Maybe Chinese and others can't understand. Multiple Korean are envying it. They insult and attack Chinese culture, and in the other side, they steal Chinese culture like mad.
So, I can tell, Chinese can read their culture easily, but we Korean not. So I learn Chinese now and hope study in China in the future

作为一个韩国人，说实话，我很佩服中国，羡慕他们文化的丰富，也许中国人和其他人无法理解，很多韩国人都很羡慕，他们一方面侮辱攻击中国文化，另一方面疯狂地窃取中国文化。
所以，我能看出，中国人很容易理解他们的文化，但我们韩国人却不行。所以我现在学习中文，希望将来能在中国学习

Now I'm working in China, I can tell most of Chinese young students can read poems from Tang dynasty, but in Korea, sorry, I can't found anybody can read Chinese character fluently except judge and lawyer, Korean seems abandon the Chinese character.

现在我在中国工作，我可以告诉你们大多数中国年轻学生都能读唐诗，但在韩国，抱歉，除了法官和律师，我找不到任何人能流利地阅读汉字，韩国人似乎放弃了中文特点。

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