QA：为什么巴基斯坦选择中国JF17 而不是韩国KFX/FA50？毕竟两者在能力和成本方面也基本相似
Why did Pakistan choose the JF17 over the KFX/FA50 when both are largely similar in capability and cost-wise comparable too?
译文简介
QA：为什么巴基斯坦选择中国JF17 而不是韩国KFX/FA50？毕竟两者在能力和成本方面也基本相似。
正文翻译
Aya Shawn
the reason is simple
The Koreans only want to sell aircraft, but the Koreans themselves are still under the control of the United States, and their technology and experience are incomplete. They have not even equipped their own fighter jets on a large scale.
At that time, the Chinese had much more experience in manufacturing fighter jets than the Koreans. What's more, the Chinese not only sell aircraft, but are also willing to help Pakistan build its own fighter aviation industry.
原因很简单
韩国人只想卖飞机，但韩国人本身还处于美国的控制之下，技术和经验都不完整。他们甚至还没有大规模装备自己的战斗机。
当时中国人制造战斗机的经验比韩国人丰富得多。更重要的是，中国人不仅卖飞机，还愿意帮助巴基斯坦建立自己的战斗机航空工业。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
the reason is simple
The Koreans only want to sell aircraft, but the Koreans themselves are still under the control of the United States, and their technology and experience are incomplete. They have not even equipped their own fighter jets on a large scale.
At that time, the Chinese had much more experience in manufacturing fighter jets than the Koreans. What's more, the Chinese not only sell aircraft, but are also willing to help Pakistan build its own fighter aviation industry.
原因很简单
韩国人只想卖飞机，但韩国人本身还处于美国的控制之下，技术和经验都不完整。他们甚至还没有大规模装备自己的战斗机。
当时中国人制造战斗机的经验比韩国人丰富得多。更重要的是，中国人不仅卖飞机，还愿意帮助巴基斯坦建立自己的战斗机航空工业。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Later history proved how correct the Pakistanis' choice was.
The FA50 project is not only six years delayed than the JF-17 project, but also has many problems based on its use in Malaysia and the Philippines.
FA50 relies on American and Israeli suppliers for many key assemblies. This severely limits the production, supply and after-sales service of aircraft.
At the same time, the radar and missiles equipped by the FA50 also lag far behind the JF-17, and its combat capabilities are at a disadvantage.
后来的历史证明巴基斯坦人的选择是多么正确。
FA50项目不仅比JF-17项目推迟了六年，而且基于其在马来西亚和菲律宾的使用情况看，也存在很多问题。
FA50 的许多关键组件均依赖美国和以色列供应商。这严重限制了飞机的生产、供应和售后服务。
同时，FA50配备的雷达和导弹也远远落后于JF-17，作战能力处于劣势。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
On the other side, the Chinese not only delivered the product on time, but also at a very low price.
They also helped Pakistan establish its own production lines.
Most of the parts of this aircraft are produced by the Chinese themselves, except for the Russian RD93 engine. Later, even the engine was replaced with the Chinese WS13.
Pakistan can produce this fighter jet on its own without restrictions. This has led to a continued decline in the unit cost of fighter aircraft.
Pakistan has even started selling this fighter jet to other countries.
Pakistan chose to cooperate with the Chinese and eventually transformed from a country that could not even manufacture cars to an exporter of advanced fighter jets.
Can the Koreans give them such a result?
I believe that not only Koreans, but no country in the world can do this except the Chinese who regard Pakistan as a "brother".
另一方面，中国人不仅按时交付产品，而且价格非常低。
他们还帮助巴基斯坦建立自己的生产线。
除了俄罗斯的RD93发动机外，这架飞机的大部分零部件都是中国人自己生产的。后来连发动机都换成了中国的WS13。
巴基斯坦可以不受限制地自行生产这款战斗机。这导致战斗机的单位成本持续下降。
巴基斯坦甚至开始向其他国家出售这种战斗机。
巴基斯坦选择与中国人合作，最终从一个连汽车都不能制造的国家转型为先进战斗机的出口国。
韩国人能给他们这样的结果吗？
我相信，不仅是韩国人，世界上除了视巴基斯坦为“兄弟”的中国人之外，没有哪个国家能做到这一点。
They also helped Pakistan establish its own production lines.
Most of the parts of this aircraft are produced by the Chinese themselves, except for the Russian RD93 engine. Later, even the engine was replaced with the Chinese WS13.
Pakistan can produce this fighter jet on its own without restrictions. This has led to a continued decline in the unit cost of fighter aircraft.
Pakistan has even started selling this fighter jet to other countries.
Pakistan chose to cooperate with the Chinese and eventually transformed from a country that could not even manufacture cars to an exporter of advanced fighter jets.
Can the Koreans give them such a result?
I believe that not only Koreans, but no country in the world can do this except the Chinese who regard Pakistan as a "brother".
另一方面，中国人不仅按时交付产品，而且价格非常低。
他们还帮助巴基斯坦建立自己的生产线。
除了俄罗斯的RD93发动机外，这架飞机的大部分零部件都是中国人自己生产的。后来连发动机都换成了中国的WS13。
巴基斯坦可以不受限制地自行生产这款战斗机。这导致战斗机的单位成本持续下降。
巴基斯坦甚至开始向其他国家出售这种战斗机。
巴基斯坦选择与中国人合作，最终从一个连汽车都不能制造的国家转型为先进战斗机的出口国。
韩国人能给他们这样的结果吗？
我相信，不仅是韩国人，世界上除了视巴基斯坦为“兄弟”的中国人之外，没有哪个国家能做到这一点。
评论翻译
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Jhon Halim
· Oct 24
cheaper price, reliable ally plus technology transfer , no contest here
更便宜的价格，可靠的盟友加上技术转让，什么竞争，不存在的。
Chiang Seng Erh
· Oct 24
Buying the Korean fighter jet is just like handing over the control to USA. That has been well proven with those countries buying USA weapons. It is just disastrous!
Taiwan is still waiting for $19 Billion worth of US weapons already fully paid in advance but undelivered for years already.
购买韩国战斗机就相当于把控制权交给了美国。那些购买美国武器的国家已经充分证明了这一点。这简直是灾难性的！
台湾仍在等待价值190亿美元的美国武器，这些武器已提前全额付款，但已多年未交付。
BL Cheah
· Oct 24
It’s a scam, they are never really intending on delivering. if they were so afraid that Taiwan would be invaded, they would be delivering weapons asap. But now they are just hyping and taking orders for military gear (and payments). So you can see what they really are up to.
这是一个骗局，他们从来没有真正打算交付。如果他们真的害怕台湾被入q，他们就会尽快提供武器。但现在他们只是大肆宣传并接受军事装备（和付款）的订单。所以你可以看到他们真正在做什么。
· Oct 24
Just like Ukraine. I wonder how much of that money flows back into the pockets of corrupt Taiwanese officals.
就像乌克兰一样。我不知道这些钱有多少又流回台湾腐败官员的口袋里。
· Oct 25
And they’ll never get it. The US knows Taiwan can’t do anything if China gets annoyed at them and chooses to put their military in the island and they’d get whatever those weapons can do.
他们永远不会得到这些武器。美国知道，如果中国对他们感到恼火并选择在台湾部署军队，那么台湾将无能为力，而这些武器的各种技术秘密都会变成他们的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
· Nov 1
See how Uncle Sam tricked TSMC into building factory in Arizona and still hasn’t split the $50 billion reward yet with TSMC while Intel & others got their fair share?
看看山姆大叔如何欺骗台积电在亚利桑那州建厂，但一直没有给台积兑现500亿美元奖励，英特尔和其他公司得到了他们应有的部分吗？
Effweye Yen
· Oct 25
Maybe Taiwan can buy the JF-17… :)
也许台湾可以购买 JF-17...:)
Muhammad Naseem
· Oct 31
Earlier US did the same with Pakistan, Took money for 28 F-16s and later placed sanction over Pakistan, telling them the planes could not be delivered under sanctions. When Pakistan asked to refund the payment they offered wheat instead of money.
此前美国也对巴基斯坦采取了同样的做法，最初巴基斯坦拿钱购买了28架F-16，后来美国对巴基斯坦实施制裁，告诉他们这些飞机在制裁下无法交付。
当巴基斯坦要求退还款项时，他们居然用小麦来提债而不是美元。
· Nov 1
Taiwan has been taken to the laundry and the separatists (traitors ?) are happy to be taken to the laundry. Understandable though.
台湾已被带到黑店里，分裂分子们很高兴被带到黑店里挨宰。不过可以理解。
Hilman Fatur
· Oct 25
Learning from Indonesia experience it is a mistake to cooperate with Korea in fighter jet industry.
借鉴印尼的经验，与韩国在战斗机领域进行合作是一个错误。
Jacc Douglas
· Oct 26
What happened?
发生啥事了
· Oct 27
It was originally collaboration between Turkey, Korea, and Indonesia to develop their own fighter jet so we could locally produced our own jet, after it starts Turkey foresight the problem from Korean side first so they leave the program and create on their own, Indonesia then wanted to follow Turkey step and join Turkey program, but Indonesia stopped by the Korea to stay in with a lot of diplomatic mission. Then after Indonesia stay in the problem really surfacing, all of Indonesian engineering team are not given the right to even glimpse at the technology which is the main reason Indonesia still want to stay in the program, the Korean reason is because all of the technology they use are from USA which is confidental to non USA allies and since Indonesia is not USA allies we are not allowed to saw anything. On the otherside Turkey program worked really well and even announced the success of the program almost at the same time as the Korean. Indonesian government express their dissatisfaction but can't do anything because of the agreement. Finally after Indonesia threatened that they'll not pay the rest of the money to Korea at least they got the technology for assembly (non-vital technology). Basically Indonesia need to pay for something that we almost got no benefit from it.
本来是土耳其、韩国和印度尼西亚合作开发自己的战斗机，这样我们就可以在当地生产自己的战斗机。计划开始之后土耳其先预见到了韩国方面的问题，所以他们离开了这个项目，决定自己搞。印度尼西亚本来想追随土耳其的步伐，加入土耳其计划。但却因为韩国外交使团的干扰，选择了留在该计划中，直到问题真正浮出水面。所有印度尼西亚工程团队都没有权利看到技术，而技术是印度尼西亚仍然希望留在该计划中的主要原因，韩国则声称他们的所有技术使用来自美国，对非美国盟友保密。且由于印度尼西亚不是美国盟友，我们不被允许看到任何东西。另一方面，土耳其的计划进展顺利，几乎与韩国同时宣布该计划的成功。印尼政府对此表示不满，但因协议限制而无能为力。最后，在印度尼西亚威胁说他们不会向韩国支付剩余的钱后，最终他们获得了一些外围组装技术（非重要技术）。基本上，印度尼西亚付出了高昂的代价，但是几乎没有得到什么好处。
Jon L
· Oct 25
US government long arms jurisdiction means buyers don't really own the products. It's still indirectly under US control.
美国政府的长臂管辖权意味着买家并不真正拥有这些产品。它仍然间接受到美国的控制。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Paul Poh
· Oct 26
USA cannot enforce any Sanction on China, unlike Korea who is under American control.
与受美国控制的韩国不同，美国无法对中国实施任何制裁。
Gareth Wells
· Oct 27
Need to worry about kill switches on any American or American related weapons, especially aircraft.
需要担心任何美国或美国相关武器（尤其是飞机）上的自杀开关。
James Liong
· Oct 29
IMHO I'm no expert, guessing US will not do this directly perhaps indirectly US can control their weapons such as GPS to a particular area, or to particular guidance system or radar system eg of a missile or aircraft.
恕我直言，我不是专家，我觉得美国不会直接这样做，也许美国可以间接的控制他们的武器，例如特定区域的 GPS，或者特定的制导系统或雷达系统，例如导弹或飞机。
· Oct 27
Amazing facts …
你展示了惊人的事实
Akhtar Ali
· Nov 1
Pakistan & China are iron brother. Inshallah time will prove it.
巴基斯坦和中国是铁哥们儿。时间会证明这一点。
Kenneth Kay
· Nov 1
“Iron Brothers”
“铁哥们”
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Matt J
· Nov 10
Fair article in general but there's no way China sees Pakistan as anything other than a customer.
总的来说，这是一篇平衡的文章，但中国也仅仅是把巴基斯坦作为客户，没有更多。
· Nov 13
Malaysia did not operate the F50, it is Indonesia & the Philippines. Both countries did not report any issues with the plane, if so, the Philippines would not buy them.
马来西亚没有运营F50，是印度尼西亚和菲律宾人买的。两国都没有报告这架飞机有任何问题，如果有的话，菲律宾就不会购买它们。
· Oct 27
Amazing facts …
Maybe not as optimistic as you say. Customers often don’t know there is a problem until they buy the car and use it.
rather than "because I bought it, there can't be anything wrong with it"
可能没有你说的这么乐观。 顾客往往是把车子买回去使用之后才知道有什么问题
而不是“因为我买了，所以它不可能有问题”
· Nov 1
You are all forgetting a very important fact. The JF-17 is a true fighter aircraft, its original design was born for combat. The F50 is just a training aircraft. Its original design was for "teaching", but it can be used part-time after being equipped with weapons.
When you need to fight India's SU30MKI, you don't want a part-time trainer aircraft. You need truly deadly weapons!
你们都忘记了一个非常重要的事实。JF-17是一款真正的战斗机，它的原始设计就是为战斗而生的。而F50只是一架教练机，它的原始设计是“教学”，只不过安装武器后可以兼职而已。
当你需要和印度的SU30MKI作战时，你不会想要一架兼职的教练机。你需要真正致命的武器！
中巴友谊万岁
· Nov 2
Americans have betrayed Pakistan long ago!
Although our Air Force is still using F16, it is unsustainable.
The lessons learned from F16 are enough. Pakistan will never be able to hand over its future to the United States again. Yes, in my opinion Korean aircraft are just American products with a new outer shell. When Americans turn the key, Koreans can only kneel down.
We now only trust our brothers in the Islamic world and our ally China. You must know that the friendship between China and Pakistan has lasted for decades and is very stable.
China is a superpower, and China has the ability to continuously introduce more advanced aircraft. Their products are a complete family. Therefore, after Pakistani pilots become familiar with the JF-17, they can easily control the more powerful JF-18 (J10C). In the future, we will upgrade to the JF-20 (J20 or J31).
The Koreans have been lagging behind the Chinese for decades. They have only a handful of toys and are not a heavyweight player with China at all.
美国人早就背叛了巴基斯坦！
虽然我们的空军还在使用F16，但是那是不可持续的。
F16的教训足够了，巴基斯坦不可能把自己的未来再次交给美国。是的，在我看来韩国飞机只是换了个外壳的美国货。美国人拧一下钥匙，韩国人就只能跪下。
我们现在只信任伊斯兰世界的兄弟，还有我们的盟友中国。你必须知道，中国和巴基斯坦的友谊已经持续了几十年了，而且非常稳定。
中国是超级大国，中国有能力不断的推出更先进的飞机。他们的产品是一个完整的家族。所以巴基斯坦飞行员熟悉了JF-17之后，就可以很容易的操纵更强大的JF-18(J10C)，未来，我们还会升级到JF-20（J20或者J31）。韩国人已经落后中国人数十年了，他们手里的玩具屈指可数，和中国根本不是一个重量级的选手。