大多数泰国华人有多“中国化”？
How "Chinese" are most Thai-Chinese?
译文简介
我是澳大利亚华人。
正文翻译
How "Chinese" are most Thai-Chinese?
大多数泰国华人有多“中国化”？
评论翻译
很赞 ( 23 )
收藏
我是澳大利亚华人。我所在的大学有很多在澳大利亚出生/长大的华人（我们称他们为 ABC），也有很多来自亚洲的留学生。在我看来，我们在文化上通常比大多数东南亚华人更“中国化”；我们中的许多人都能说一口流利的普通话，行为举止也与白人不同，即使我们明显“西化”了。
最近，我在这里遇到了一批泰国籍的华人留学生。我的印象是，他们似乎与“中国化”相去甚远？我认为他们中的大多数人都不会说中文，而且都只有泰文名字。从外貌上看，他们中的大多数人也不像真正的中国人，看起来比 ABC 更矮。这让我很好奇，维基百科上说泰国有 1000 万华人。他们中有多少人还在遵循“中国传统”？
此外，大多数泰国华人对中国持何种政治立场？在我的印象中，一些海外华人（如马来西亚华人或菲律宾华人）是比较亲华的。澳大利亚华人和美国华人（父母来自中国大陆）对此大多持中立态度，或者闭口不谈。公开持否定态度的人不多，但也不是超级亲华派。
Thailand
I think most of them cannot really speak Chinese and have Thai names.
That is true.
Thai-Chinese people have assimilated into Thai culture over the generations and many of them don't speak a word of Chinese.
“我认为他们中的大多数人都不会说中文，而且都只有泰文名字。”
确实如此。
泰籍华人经过几代人的努力，已经融入了泰国文化，很多人一句中文都不会说。
Even if they do natively speak Chinese, it's likely not Manadarin, but a different dialect.
Those who speak Manadarin mostly learned it as a second language, but it's a choice, not done by routine like sending kids to a Mandarin-language school for the Chinese in Malaysia.
Very few are native speakers of Mandarin, but there are a few, like descendants of KMT soldiers up in Thaton.
即使他们的母语是中文，也很可能不是普通话，而是另一种方言。
会说普通话的人大多是作为第二语言学习的，但这是一种选择，而不是像马来西亚华人那样把送孩子去普通话学校作为传统。
以普通话为母语的人很少，但也有少数人，比如在 Thaton 的国民党士兵的后代。
Lived in both Malaysia and Thailand.
I would say Thai Chinese are the most assimilated overseas Chinese group I have ever met. My theory is because Thai and Chinese cultures have much in common, so accepting, they inter married for generations and eventually blended in. But for Malaysians and Indonesians especially, Islam forbids inter faith marriages, and therefore kept the groups isolated. Filipino Chinese are also very well intergrated.
曾在马来西亚和泰国生活过。
我想说泰国华人是我见过的被同化得最好的海外华人群体。我的观点是因为泰国和中国文化有很多共同点，所以可以互相接受，他们世代通婚并最终融合在一起。但特别是对于马来西亚人和印度尼西亚人来说，伊斯兰教禁止不同信仰之间的婚姻，因此使这些群体处于孤立状态。菲律宾华人也融入得很好。
There was also a strict policy of forced assimilation from the Thai government.
泰国政府还实行严格的强制同化政策。
Those are Pre ww2 and Cold War era policy though.
不过，这些都是二战前和冷战时期的政策。
Sure, but almost all Chinese immigrants had arrived by then.
是的，但几乎所有的中国移民都是在那时候抵达的。
Filipino Chinese especially the very rich ones dont like marrying offspring to filipinos. There is also rivalry between Chinese/new rich and spanish/old guard filipino businessmen.
菲律宾华人，尤其是非常富有的人，不喜欢将后代嫁给菲律宾人。华人/新富商和西班牙裔/守旧的菲律宾商人之间也存在竞争。
Is this also true of Thai-Chinese?
泰国华人也是如此吗？
It's not a case of families being like "You should marry another Chinese", but more like make sure you marry someone from a decent socioeconomic status. Most Thai-Chinese don't view marrying Thais of other ethnicities as a negative (unsurprising since most of us view ourselves as Thai and don't really differentiate people by ethnicities here because there's so much mixing). Probably less of a stigma than a White American marrying a Black or Latino American.
这并不是那种家人会说“你应该再找一个中国人结婚”的情况，而更像是要确保你嫁/娶的人要有良好的社会经济地位。大多数泰籍华人并不认为与其他族裔的泰国人结婚是一件坏事（这并不奇怪，因为我们大多数人都认为自己是泰国人，而且由于混血儿太多，这里的人并不会真的按族裔来区分）。这可能比美国白人与美国黑人或拉丁裔美国人结婚的障碍要小。
I am Thai, born in Thailand, and grew up in Thailand. Most people around me have Chinese lineage (myself included), but I do not remember meeting any who would consider themselves to be "Thai-Chinese". We're just Thais. And if you ask them specifically to elaborate, they might say คนไทยเชื้อสายจีน. I also don't know anyone who speaks Chinese beyond some borrowed words passed on.
我是泰国人，在泰国出生，在泰国长大。我周围的大多数人都有中国血统（包括我自己），但我不记得见过任何自认为是“泰籍华人”的人。我们只是泰国人。如果你特别要求他们详细说明，他们可能会说คนไทยเชือสายจีน。我也不认识任何会说中文的人，除了一些借用过来的词汇。
Did you grow up in Bangkok? If so I'd be surprised you don't know any Thai-Chinese with stronger lixs to Chinese culture/language.
Thai-Chinese families obviously still form the economic and political elite, but even upper-middle class Thais mostly have some Chinese heritage.
From my personal experience they often still speak a bit of mandarin or more often a Southern Chinese language with their parents and grandparents but can't write. They may have picked up a bit of mandarin in school or kindergarten but are far from fluent.
Their food at home is often a lot less spicy than Thai food, but in terms of what they eat it's a mix of Thai and Southern Chinese cuisine. Chinese festivals and customs are somewhat observed because older family members insist on it.
So again, OP is probably right that the younger Thai-Chinese are a lot less Chinese than ABC, but there's still the family lixs.
你是在曼谷长大的吗？如果是的话，我很惊讶你不认识任何与中国文化/语言有更紧密联系的泰国华人。
泰籍华人家庭显然仍是经济和政治精英，而且即使是中上阶层的泰国人也大多有一些中国血统。
根据我的亲身经历，他们通常仍会说一点普通话，或者会经常性地与父母和祖父母说一种中国南方语言，但不会写字。他们可能在学校或幼儿园学过一点普通话，但不流利。
他们在家里吃的食物通常没有泰国菜那么辣，但就吃的东西而言，是泰国菜和中国南方菜的混合体。由于年长的家庭成员的坚持，他们多少会遵守一点中国的节日和习俗。
因此，OP 说年轻的泰籍华人比 ABC 的“中国化”少很多，这可能是对的，但家庭联系仍然存在。
I did grew up in Bangkok. I don't know any Thais my age that speak any sort of Chinese at home with their parents. My mother doesn't speak any, but her parents (my grandparent) did. On technicality aspect, I am a quarter Chinese. But I am Thai. Many people in my situation will still identify as Thai, not Thai-Chinese.
Thai-Chinese families obviously still form the economic and political elite, but even upper-middle class Thais mostly have some Chinese heritage.
The only people who would say they are Thai-Chinese is if their parents who grew up in Thailand (regardless of how "strong" their Chinese blood may be), married a "foreigner" from literal China. Sorry but Thais don't go around calling themselves Chinese.
我确实是在曼谷长大的。我不知道有哪个和我同龄的泰国人在家里和父母说任何形式的中文。我母亲不会说中文，但她的父母（我的祖父母）会说。从技术上讲，我有四分之一的华人血统。但我是泰国人。许多像我这样的人仍然会认为自己是泰国人，而不是泰国华人。
“泰籍华人家庭显然仍是经济和政治精英，而且即使是中上阶层的泰国人也大多有一些中国血统。”
唯一会说自己是泰籍华人的人，是他们在泰国长大的父母（不管他们的中国血统“浓不浓”），和一个来自字面意义上的中国的“外国人”结了婚。不好意思，泰国人不会到处跟人说自己是华人。
mom is Chinese by blood, born in Thailand the 8th eldest. Her grandma and grandpa migrated here from communist China, from both mother and father side. She is 0% thai by blood, and 100% by association and all practical senses. After living in bangkok for 64 years, she still gets the occasional “how come your thai is so good?” when we’re out in public
to rebutal your definitive statement on how thai-Chinese act, she most certainly refers to many aspects of her life as Chinese. And, she identifies herself as being Chinese by blood quite often(i probably hear a comment a week). She cooks and eats Chinese. Chinese number beliefs and feng shui in the house are two good examples. The whole family is like this, of 7 siblings. Their offspring, myself and my cousins, surely not. So I think while you may be accurate about YOUR interactions, age, or friend group, you are missing a large group of Thai-Chinese in this country that most definitely associate with being Chinese.
我妈妈是华人血统，出生在泰国，排行第八。她的奶奶和爷爷都是从gczy中国移民到这里的，包括母亲和父亲。她有 0% 的泰国血统，但从行为举止和所有的观感来看，她是 100% 的泰国人。在曼谷生活了 64 年后，当我们在公共场合外出时，她偶尔还是会被问到“你的泰语怎么这么好？”
为了反驳你关于泰国华人行为方式的定论，她绝对会把自己生活中的很多方面都说成是中国化的。而且，她经常在血统上认为自己是中国人（我可能每周都会听到一次）。她做中国菜、吃中国菜。中国对数字的信仰和房屋风水就是两个很好的例子。全家人都是这样，包括兄弟姐妹7人。而他们的后代，即我和我的表兄弟，肯定不会。所以我认为，虽然你对与自己交往过的、年龄相似的或朋友圈的人的看法可能是准确的，但你漏掉了这个国家的一大群泰国华人，他们绝对会把自己与中国文化联系在一起。
Most of them, if you ask if they're Chinese, they will say "no, Thai." But if you ask them about their grandparents or great grandparents, they will often say, yes, one or more of their grandparents are Chinese. This is especially true with rural Thais. From what I've found, it seems only wealthy, business-owning Thais will always respond with "yes" if you ask if they're Chinese/mixed. For example, my wife is from a rural village in central Thailand. She wouldn't ever randomly claim she is mixed, but after I asked her, she told me she is Thai-Khmer-Chinese, but obviously she just claims she is Thai. I doubt anyone besides her family even knows that, because to her, she's just Thai. Doesn't know anything about China, Cambodia, etc.
I get it though. I'm only a second generation American. My grandparents are from Germany, but they never taught my mom or dad any German language or culture, even though they can all speak German, and I have contact with my German relatives in Germany. I'm just American, since that's all I know. Sure my lineage comes from Germany but it stops in America. The most German culture I have is a German soup both sides cooked and passed down to my mom and dad.
他们中的大多数人，如果你问他们是不是华人，他们大多会说“不是，是泰国人”。但如果你问他们的祖父母或曾祖父母，他们经常会说，是的，他们的祖父母中的一位或多位是中国人。这种情况在泰国农村尤为明显。据我所知，似乎只有富有、经商的泰国人在你问他们是否是中国人/混血儿时才会回答“是”。例如，我的妻子来自泰国中部的一个乡村。她从来不会随便说自己是混血儿，但在我问她之后，她告诉我她是泰国-高棉-中国混血儿，但显然她只是说自己是泰国人。我怀疑除了她的家人，还有谁知道这一点，因为对她来说，她只是泰国人。她对中国、柬埔寨等地一无所知。
不过我也能理解。我只是第二代美国人。我的祖父母来自德国，但他们从未教过我的父母任何德语或德国文化，尽管他们都会说德语，我也与德国的亲戚有联系。我只是美国人，因为我只知道美国。当然，我的血统来自德国，但止步于美国。我所拥有的最多的德国文化就是双方都煮过并传给我父母的德国汤。
actually on a side note, like I just said in another longer comment in this thread the majority of the Chinese population in thailand was of ethnic teochew descent and spoke teochew.
what most people are ignorant to is that different Chinese ethnic groups have DIFFERENT NAMES- wong and chan for example are ethnic cantonese names.
the teochew have names that are verrrry almost south east asian sounding, like Beh or Ng. So perhaps they have retained their names to some degree just most people dont realise those are teochew names
其实话说回来，就像我刚才在本贴的另一个楼中楼里所说的，泰国的大多数华人都是潮汕人后裔，讲潮汕话。
大多数人不知道的是，不同的华人族群有不同的名字--例如，“王”（wong）和“陈”（chan）就是广东人的名字。
潮州人的名字听起来非常像东南亚人的名字，比如 Beh 或 Ng。因此，也许他们在某种程度上保留了自己的名字，只是大多数人没有意识到那是潮州人的名字。
9 out of 10 of my colleague have Chinese origin. But all of them doesn't speak mandarin or any dialect anymore, even their parent too.
For majority, the only Chinese thing they have now i guess still following older family tradition for worshipping or prayer. Chinese New Year, qingming, vegeterian festival, or have some Chinese god statue at home e.g. Fu Lu Shou. Some may have nickname related to family.
我的 10 个同事中有 9 个是华人。但他们都不会说普通话或任何方言了，甚至他们的父母也是。
对于大多数人来说，他们现在唯一有中国特色的东西，我想是还遵循老一辈的家庭传统来崇拜或祈祷。春节、清明节、素斋节，或者在家里供奉一些中国神像，如福禄寿。有些人可能有在家庭使用的绰号。
Do they still identify as Thai-Chinese in terms of social group for personal and business relationships? Or do they not see themselves as distinct from other Thais?
在个人和商业关系的社会群体方面，他们仍然认为自己是泰国华人吗？还是他们认为自己与其他泰国人没有区别？
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I'm 5th generation Chinese descent but we see ourselves as Thais. This was since my grand mother who never force us to learn Chinese and taught us to be Thais.
We would say we are Thai with Chinese descent but not Thai-Chinese.
我是第五代华裔，但我们认为自己是泰国人。这是因为我的祖母从不强迫我们学中文，而是教我们做泰国人。
我们会说我们是有中国血统的泰国人，但不是泰国华人。
So not like in Malaysia for example where Chinese ethnic citizens generally consider themselves a separate group. (I suppose the government also treats Malays and Chinese differently too).
所以不像在马来西亚，那里的华裔公民通常认为自己是一个独立的群体。（我想政府对马来人和华人也是区别对待的）。
Malaysia is well known for it's pluralist demography. Chinese, Malaysia and Indians have their own little quasi nations
马来西亚以其多元化的人口结构而闻名。华人、马来人和印度人都有自己的小小准国家
Put it this way - if you put at 100% ethnic Chinese Thai (e.g. me) with a China-Chinese person and a 100% "native" Thai person (whatever that means), we would feel closer and identify more with the Thai person most of the time.
We don't try to associate more with other Thai-Chinese as a social group or give preferential treatment in personal/business relationship, but because Thai-Chinese tend to come from wealthier socio-economic backgrounds, we end up in settings that naturally put us in contact with a lot of other Thai-Chinese (e.g. competitive schools, professional workplace, etc.)
No, if a "native" Thai person of similar socioeconomic background ends up in the same setting, they wouldn't feel out of place since we all identify as Thai and feel that we are from the same culture. If a foreign Chinese end up in one of these groups and doesn't speak Thai, THEY would be the one viewed us the foreigner/outsider (however, if they speak fluent Thai most people can easily regard them as Thai mentally. It's very easy to "become" Thai in that sense).
这么说吧--如果你把 100%的泰籍华人（比如我）与一个中国人和一个 100%的“土生土长”的泰国人（不管那是什么意思）放在一起，我们会感觉更亲近，大多数时候会更认同泰国人。
我们并没有试图作为一个社会群体与其他泰国华人建立更多的联系，也没有在个人/商业关系中给予优待，但由于泰国华人往往来自更富裕的社会经济背景，我们最终会在一些环境中自然而然地接触到很多其他泰国华人（例如竞争激烈的学校、专业工作场所等）。
而且不，如果一个具有类似社会经济背景的“本土”泰国人出现在同样的环境中，他们不会觉得格格不入，因为我们都认同自己是泰国人，觉得我们来自同一种文化。如果一个外籍华人出现在这些群体中，并且不会说泰语，那么他们就会被视为外国人/外来者（但是，如果他们能说一口流利的泰语，大多数人就会从心理上把他们视为泰国人。从这个意义上讲，“成为”泰国人是非常容易的）。
So not like in Malaysia where Chinese would be offended if you thought they were Malay ethnicity?
所以不像在马来西亚，如果你把一个华人认作马来人，他们会感到被冒犯？
Yes, definitely not like that from my experience
是的，根据我的经验，绝对不会这样
You make a lot of sense, but there are also Chinese Thais who will exclusively seek out other people of Chinese descent for marriage. It's a minority but it exists.
你说得很有道理，但也有一些泰国华人专门寻找其他华裔人士结婚。虽然是少数，但确实存在。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Yes, I think there are but it's not common.
是的，我认为有，但并不常见。
There was a period of famine in Southern China a few generations ago, causing large numbers of Chinese to migrate to Thailand. These Chinese have largely intermarried with Thais, giving rise to the large number of Thai-Chinese in Thailand today.
Most Thai-Chinese speak little Chinese, but still celebrate holidays like Chinese New Year and Tomb Sweeping Day with their families. They tend to live in the cities and have a strong culture of entrepreneurship, so most of the wealthier people in Thailand have some Chinese heritage.
There are varying degrees of "Chinese-ness" within Thai-Chinese families. Some might only have a single great-grandfather who was born in China, with all other ancestors being Thai. Others might have married between Chinese families and preserved more of their Chinese culture.
几代人以前，中国南方曾发生过饥荒，导致大量中国人移居泰国。这些中国人在很大程度上与泰国人通婚，形成了今天泰国大量的泰籍华人。
大多数泰籍华人几乎不会说中文，但仍会与家人一起庆祝春节和清明节等节日。他们多居住在城市，有很强的创业文化，因此泰国大多数较富裕的人都有一些中国血统。
泰国华人家庭的“中国化”程度各不相同。有些家庭可能只有一个曾祖父出生在中国，其他祖先都是泰国人。还有一些人可能与中国家庭通婚，保留了更多的中国文化。
There was a historical backlash against the Chinese in Bangkok some decades ago. There is a term Thaification that was a policy somewhat forcing Thai Chinese to change their names. The affluent Thai Chinese I know really don't consider themselves Chinese, speak Chinese and would be insulted if they were referred to as anything but Thai. With that said some small things like red envelopes have stuck around.
几十年前，曼谷曾发生过针对华人的历史性抵制。有一个词叫“泰化”，是一种强制泰国华人改名的政策。我认识的那些富裕的泰国华人并不认为自己是中国人，他们说中文，如果别人不称他们为泰国人，他们会觉得受到了侮辱。尽管如此，一些像红包这样的小东西还是保留了下来。