印度加拿大外交风波让印度网友反思：这就是为什么印度永远不能信任西方，他们将永远支持反印度的活动
This is why India can never trust the west: They will always support anti-India activities
译文简介
印度自独立以来一直奉行不结盟政策。
正文翻译
This is why India can never trust the west: They will always support anti-India activities
这就是为什么印度永远不能信任西方：他们将永远支持反印度的活动
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However in recent times, it is being said that due to India-China tussles, and India's nuclear deterrent being aimed at China rather than Pakistan - that India's days of nonalignment are over.
The incident in Canada is an eye-opener for India. We'll get clarity on just how well the west is committed to working with us. The intelligence is supposed to be shared by the five-eyes, the alliance of five major english speaking countries.
US's stand is not pro-India - it was made clear by their Secretary of State, blxen as: U.S. expects "accountability" from India.
This is not Trudeau's one-off tantrum. Britain, Canada actively support the movement as freedom of speech and Australia, US have not shown seriousness in acting against Khalistani terrorists.
This is why we can never abandon Russia, and why we need to be close to other allies like Brazil which don't actively support anti-India activities - the west has never proven to be a reliable friend, and is no better than China.
印度自独立以来一直奉行不结盟政策。
然而近来，由于中印之间的争斗，以及印度的核威慑力量针对的是中国而不是巴基斯坦，有人说印度不结盟的日子已经结束了。
加拿大事件让印度大开眼界。我们将清楚地看到西方国家与我们合作的决心有多大。五眼联盟是由五个主要英语国家组成的联盟。
美国的立场并不支持印度--他们的国务卿布林肯已经表明了这一点： 美国希望印度“承担责任”。
这不是特鲁多的一次性搞事。英国、加拿大以言论自由为由积极支持这一运动，而澳大利亚、美国在打击哈利斯坦恐怖分子方面也没有表现出认真的态度。
这就是为什么我们永远不能放弃俄罗斯，为什么我们需要与巴西等不积极支持反印活动的其他盟国保持密切关系--西方从未被证明是一个可靠的朋友，而且并不比中国好多少。
India can trust no one. Just concentrate on getting richer
印度谁都不能相信。专心致富吧
Richer my ass. Regardless of our big achievements, we all know inside India is struggling with basic infrastructure and other problems. The govt rn imo does not seem to be doing much for that. The cool big big things modi govt is doing but when it comes to basic infra I'm not seeing the kind of growth needed because our cities and towns are failing and they are a big obstacle in our country's way to get richer. Right now the only department where infrastructure is going good is highways NHAI under nitin gadkari. Except him other things aren't as smooth as expected.
致富个屁。不管我们取得了多大的成就，我们都知道印度内部正在为基本的基础设施和其他问题苦苦挣扎。在我看来，印度政府似乎并没有为此做什么。莫迪政府正在做一些很酷的大事，但说到基础建设，我却看不到所需的增长，因为我们的城镇正在衰败，它们是我们国家走向富裕的一大障碍。目前，唯一一个基础设施发展良好的部门是尼丁-加德卡里领导下的高速公路管理局。除了他之外，其他事情都不尽如人意。
And who should we trust?
Russia? Who's in "friendship with no limits" relations with Chinese transferring weapons, tech and intelligence???
Fact is, countries look for their own interest first. And West is our best option for now and foreseeable future.
我们应该相信谁？
俄罗斯？一个与中国在武器、技术和情报转让方面保持着“无上限”友好关系的国家？
事实是，各国都会优先考虑自己的利益。西方是我们目前和可预见未来的最佳选择。
OP
I'm not saying we should trust anyone, I'm saying we're still going to have to be non-aligned.
我不是说我们应该相信任何人，我是说我们依然要坚持不结盟。
Or build stronger relations so we can actually demand them to take proactive actions against India's interests.
Right now it's give and take, and we don't have anything to give to Trudeau, so he remains soft on Khalistanis.
As long as khalistani aren't a problem for Canadians, don't expect any actions against them.
But, that's a decision for Indian strategic thinkers to make.
亦或者与之建立更稳固的关系，这样我们就能真正要求他们采取积极的行动来维护印度的利益。
现在正是利益交换的时候，而我们没有任何东西可以给特鲁多，所以他对卡利斯坦人依然心慈手软。
只要卡利斯坦对加拿大人来说不是问题，就不要指望对他们采取任何行动。
不过，这要由印度的战略思想家们来决定。
Non-alignment was a failure.. It's works best to to have good relationships with all and use that leverage...
不结盟是失败的……最好的办法是与所有人建立良好的关系并利用这种杠杆作用……
We aren’t as powerful that nations will come flocking to us.Thats why we still did make a axis of our own
我们还没有强大到让各国蜂拥而至的程度。这就是为什么我们仍然要制作自己的轴心
India don't need nations to flock to it.. just having a good relationship with all is important..
印度不需要各国蜂拥而至......与所有人保持良好的关系很重要......
Having a good relation with other countries means you are no longer important in international politics without a big brother.See Australia for example and even for that matter Canada also. To be strong power to deter threats by itself we need to have some enemies and some friends the world was never ideal never meant to be.Either be the younger brother or kill the elder to fight for throne thats how the world always worked.
与其他国家都保持良好关系意味着如果不成为一个老大哥，你在国际政治中不再重要。以澳大利亚为例，甚至加拿大也是如此。为了成为强大的力量来阻止威胁本身，我们需要有一些敌人和一些朋友，这个世界从来都不是理想的，从来都不是这样的。要么成为弟弟，要么杀死长辈来争夺王位，这就是世界一直以来的运作方式。
No.. nothing can make a country important unless it has power.. being subservient just makes it a dependency... Just don't make enemies..
不......除非拥有权力，否则任何事情都不能使一个国家变得重要，屈从也只会使之成为附属国......要的是不树敌......
Non-alignment is like playing with no one. Doesn't work and failed India when NAM was at its peak. Better way is to play along with our interests as the highest priority. We need to develop capabilities that make us indispensable.
不结盟就没人跟你一起玩。当不结盟运动处于鼎盛时期时，也没起什么作用，印度还是失败了。更好的办法是以我们的利益为重。我们需要发展使我们变得不可或缺的能力。
Normally, I do not comment on things because it is mostly futile, but here you go."And West is our best option for now and foreseeable future". With the west itself in decline, I am not exactly sure if it's the best option.
Also as someone who has lived in the west, I can tell you for sure nobody, and i mean nobody takes India as seriously. India is a large market and that is all there to it. We mostly produce food, that is about it. India's software exports are at best substandard.
But the thing that most Indians do not understand is that, on an individual level you might become friends with someone in the west, but civillisationally, Indians are looked at as street shitting, smelly pajeets who cannot get their land in order.In short they will always feel superior to us no matter what happens. They ruled over us and they inherently have this belief. No matter how smart we might be.
India's best bet is to suck up, be humble, work hard for atleast a decade which means resolving issues with China, because they are not going anywhere. We are not the regional power we used to be in the 80's.
But this will never happen, because my fellow brothers are hyper, naive, short sighted fools who believe in false positivity and false machismo. Indians seem to think, that if Isreal gets a pass, so will they. Nothing can be further from the truth.
通常情况下，我不会对事情发表评论，因为这大多是徒劳的，但这次忍不住了。你说“西方是我们现在和可预见的未来的最佳选择”。随着西方本身的衰落，我不太确定西方是否是最好的选择。
另外，作为一个在西方生活过的人，我可以肯定地告诉你，没有人，我是说“没有人”把印度当回事。印度是一个大市场，仅此而已。我们主要生产食品，仅此而已。印度的软件出口充其量只能算是次品。
但大多数印度人不明白的是，在个人层面上，你可能会与西方人成为朋友，但在民间，印度人却被看作是在街上拉屎、臭气熏天、不能把自己的土地打理得井井有条的“南亚佬”。他们统治着我们，他们天生就有这种信念。无论我们多么聪明。
印度最好的选择就是忍气吞声，谦虚谨慎，埋头苦干至少十年，这意味着解决与中国的问题，因为他们就在那里，不会去任何地方。而我们也已经不是80年代的地区强国了。
但这永远不会发生，因为我的同胞们都是狂热、天真、目光短浅的傻瓜，他们会被虚假的积极言辞和虚假的大男子主义行为欺骗。印度人似乎认为，如果以色列能在国际社会上通吃，他们也可以。但事实并非如此。
First paragraph -
while west may not be growing as fast anymore, it is still far ahead than rest of the world. Their combined gdp is 45triillion+ right now. The fact is, west as a collective isn't losing the race anytime soon. They have way too many things on their side.
And about China, we tried being friendly towards them, infact India was one of the first countries to recognise communist China, but what we got was a war in 1962.
The things is, China doesn't see us as friends or companion, they see us as their RIVAL, taking space in their sphere of influence.
So unless there's a drastic change in Chinese government, they won't be friendly to us, because it's simply against their Policy. If it was upto India, we would have been "bhai-bhai" a long time ago.
Second paragraph -
I agree with everything you said. Anyways, it takes time to change stereotypes when they are totally fake, but right now, many things they think about us, is true. Lot's of work needs to be done when we have the demographic advantage.
第一段
虽然西方国家的经济增长速度可能不再那么快，但仍然远远领先于世界其他国家。现在，他们的 GDP 总量已超过 45 万亿美元。事实上，西方作为一个集体不会很快输掉比赛。他们有太多的优势。
关于中国，我们曾试图对他们友好，事实上，印度是最早承认gczy中国的国家之一，但我们得到的却是 1962 年的一场战争。
问题是，中国并没有把我们视为朋友或伙伴，而是把我们视为在他们的势力范围内抢占地盘的对手。
因此，除非中国发生巨变，否则他们不会对我们友好，因为这完全违背了他们的政策。如果这能取决于印度，我们早就“亲如兄弟”了。
第二段
我同意你所说的一切。无论如何，要改变完全虚假的刻板印象需要时间，但现在，他们对我们的许多看法都是真实的。当我们拥有人口优势时，还有很多工作要做。
About the west :You can have a huge GDP and economy but if your price to living ratio or PPP as it is called is low, it does not matter. West has inflated numbers because that is what financial captilaism is. To give you an example, a tech company can have a really high valuation(GDP) but it's null if its not producing or making profit. Again as someone who moved back from the west very recently, I can assure that things are not going to be great there. Ofcourse, West if not going anywhere, but I think Indians have a misconception that west will have a martial plan ready for us. That is not happening bro. They are struggling to get their own industry back. The region of growth is largely Asia and in that ASEAN. Besides, education market and research, the biggest products for US is dollar priting, Uk and Canada is financial services. That is the reason they have a failing middle class and a huge wealth gap. The productivity levels are so low that they are off the mark, there is a lot of cultural clash, colonial guilt etc.
China :
We got a war in 1962 because of some mistakes we made lots of foreign policy errors. There were chances of issues getting resolved as back as zhou enlai and in again if i am not wrong with deng xiaoping. I just do not get it, why do Indians think that our politicians are invincible ? You do know that Morarji desai was a CIA spy right ?Civilisationally, the Chinese see us with more of a connect, and not inferiors, after all bhuddism went from here ( a core for asian civilisations)While China might have seen us as a competitor back in the day, that time has passed. It's US and China, China bests sees us a lacky of the US, and yes we have lost our influence, there are no doubts about it.
Our software economy relies on the western market, and well the raw materials we need for China. There is no software without electronics and computers. we import all of it from china. Go to a mobile shop anywhere in India, you can get things repaired for cheap because of cheap Chinese electornics. Besides all of this, they own supply chain of raw materials, they make their own chips, and they are a billion strong. It's funny we even try to compare with them.Besides, you do not win by consipring against your adversaries with other adversaries or by making online verbal arguments. People only take you seriously if they respect you. Sadly, at the moment we are not respected.
I know your intent is not bad, but Indians have to start behaving rationally, rather than emotional fools. I grew up in the 90's when I was taught to be humble, be good listener, but maybe that was just the environment i grew up in. everyone by and large now seems to be hubris loving.
关于西方：
你可以拥有庞大的 GDP 和经济，但如果你的物价与生活比率或所谓的购买力平价很低，那这些就是虚的。西方的数字虚高，因为这就是金融资本主义。举个例子，一家科技公司可以有很高的估值（类似GDP），但如果它不事生产或不盈利，估值就形同虚设。作为一个最近才从西方搬回来的人，我可以保证那里的情况没有太好。当然，西方不会消失，但我认为印度人有一种误解，以为西方会为我们准备好一个生产计划。这是不可能的，兄弟。他们正在努力恢复自己的产业。增长的地区主要是亚洲和东盟。除了教育市场和研究之外，美国最大的产品就是美元，英国和加拿大最大的产品是金融服务。这就是他们中产阶级衰落、贫富差距巨大的原因。生产力水平太低，以至于无法达到目标，此外还有很多文化冲突、殖民愧疚等。
关于中国 ：
1962 年的战争是因为我们犯了很多外交政策上的错误。早在周恩来时代，问题就有机会得到解决，如果我没记错的话，在邓小平时代也是如此。我只是不明白，为什么印度人会认为我们的政治家是无可动摇的？你知道莫拉吉-德赛是中央情报局的间谍吧？从文明角度看，中国人认为与我们有很多的联系，而不是把我们视为下等人，毕竟佛教就是从这里传出的（亚洲文明的核心）。虽然中国曾经可能把我们视为竞争对手，但这个时期已经过去了。现在是美国和中国竞争，中国认为我们是美国的走狗，是的，我们已经失去了自身的影响力，这一点毋庸置疑。
我们的软件经济依赖西方市场，也依赖中国的原材料。没有电子产品和电脑，就没有软件。在印度的任何一家手机店，你都能以低廉的价格修理手机，是因为中国的电子产品价格低廉。除此以外，他们还拥有原材料供应链，自己生产芯片，也拥有十亿级别的人口。此外，与其他对手交锋或在网上唇枪舌剑并不能赢得胜利。人们只有尊重你，才会认真对待你。遗憾的是，目前我们并没有得到尊重。
我知道你的本心不坏，但印度人必须开始理性行事，而不是成为情绪化的傻瓜。我是在 90 年代长大的，那时我被教育要谦虚，要善于倾听，但也许那只是我个人的成长环境。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
You shouldn’t compare using PPP. Let’s say I make $10 and I can buy 5 hamburgers, and someone in India makes only $5 but can buy 5 hamburgers with it just as well. Now let’s say we both are making job offers to someone in Mexico. I offer $10 and the Indian offers his $5. The Mexican does not care how many burgers he can buy in some other country - he is going to take the $10.
你不应该用购买力平价进行比较。比方说，我挣 10 美元，可以买 5 个汉堡包，而印度有人只挣 5 美元，但同样可以买 5 个汉堡包。现在假设我们都在向墨西哥的某个人提供工作机会。我出 10 美元，印度人出 5 美元。墨西哥人不在乎他在其他国家能买多少汉堡包，他会接受 10 美元的邀约。
West is looking for a "Ukraine of Asia" to counter China. nobody's falling for that bullshit. India is very prudent treading the middle path. Fact is West wants to arm twist India and India's answer has always been "fuck off". Pakistan was West's bitch, look what has happened to them now.
西方正在寻找一个“亚洲乌克兰”来对抗中国。没有人会相信那些废话。印度非常谨慎地走在中间道路上。事实是，西方想对印度进行武力干涉，而印度的回答一直是“滚开”。巴基斯坦曾是西方的婊子，看看他们现在的下场吧。
thats the problem we have to be atmanirbhar for atleast our basic needs like food and water + defence + energy, we have to be sustainable country in long run or second way is to become manufacturing hub like china which has lot of money.
这就是问题所在，我们必须至少满足我们的基本需求，例如食物和水+国防+能源，从长远来看，我们必须成为可持续发展的国家，第二种方法就是成为像中国这样有很多钱的制造中心。
Might is right.
We have to amass more power.
权力就是王道。
我们必须积聚更多的力量。
Neutral countries will never have allies. If India has to ally with West there's much price to pay, not worth it. Better to stand alone.
中立国家永远不会有盟友。如果印度非要与西方结盟，那要付出很大的代价，不值得。最好是独善其身。
Why does everything have to be anti-West? They are not the bad guys here. Stop looking at West as the one with anti-India mindset - they don't! After the disintegration of Soviet unx, the West has made significant strides towards growing closer to India economically, militarily and geopolitically. Yes there will always be minor issues and irritants like the current Canada issue but look at the big picture and think long-term. India's democratic ethos, open (largely) market-based economy combined with social protection measures can only thrive and grow in partnership with the West, we have no other choice. Russia is going to be a failed state with no institutional strength and no democratic values. Stop day dreaming about being backed by them. For every Canada that doesn't support India, there's a France or a Germany or a UK or Australia that wants to build closer socio-economic and trade relations with India. And the US has really made a lot of concessions for India in recent years in terms of military support and economic backing/FDI. The West is anything but anti-India so stop that BS!
为什么所有事情都要反西方？他们不是坏人。不要再把西方视为具有反印思维的一方--他们没有！苏联解体后，西方在经济、军事和地缘政治上与印度的关系日益密切。是的，总会有一些小问题和小摩擦，比如当前的加拿大问题，但要着眼大局，长远思考。印度的民主精神、开放（很大程度上）的市场经济以及社会保障措施只有与西方合作才能茁壮成长，我们别无选择。俄罗斯将成为一个没有制度力量和民主价值观的失败国家。不要再做被他们支持的白日梦了。每有一个不支持印度的加拿大，就有一个法国、德国、英国或澳大利亚希望与印度建立更紧密的社会经济和贸易关系。近年来，美国在军事支持和经济支持/直接投资方面确实为印度做出了很多让步。西方并不反印，所以别再胡说八道了！
Let's make it clear... NO country operates on trust with other countries... even within orgs like NATO...
让我们明确一点……没有一个国家是建立在与其他国家的信任之上的……即使是在北约这样的组织内部……
West will disown India as soon as chine toes the line or is no longer a threat. Indian govt despite of which party rules will have to develop better capability and ensure rule based law in favour of country's long term interest. Else , us will ditch India after use and will embolden secessionist again.
Even in the current saga, it is quite clear to me that us is aiding Khalistanis as some sort of leverage to use against India.
一旦中国屈服或不再构成威胁，西方国家就会抛弃印度。印度政府无论由哪个党派执政，都必须发展更好的能力，确保以法治为基础的国家长期利益。否则，美国将在利用完印度后抛弃印度，并再次助长印度的分裂主义。
即使在当前的事件中，我也清楚地认识到，美国正在帮助卡利斯坦人，以此作为对付印度的某种筹码。
If India want to become rich and superpower just follow what china is doing. China never care much what west thinks about them and pamper them at all. China just do business with west and show middle finger by keeping silence and west try to teach moral.
如果印度想成为富国和超级大国，就学中国的做法吧。中国从不关心西方对他们的看法，也不会惯着他们。中国只是与西方做生意，通过保持沉默向西方竖中指，而西方则试图对中国进行道德教育。