从历史上看，你认为哪个帝国是最伟大和最成功的？（一）
Historically, which empire do you think was the greatest and the most successful?
译文简介
“汉帝国”或中国，为什么?中国多次分裂，但每次都再次统一，这是其他帝国无法做到的壮举。
正文翻译
Pun Anansakunwat
“Han Chinese Empire” or China
Why?
China was fragmented many times, but every time it was reunified again, a feat which no other empire can do so.
However, it is the only empire that managed to retain control the territories it held since antiquity until present-day, and even be able to annex territories of other kingdoms as well (Manchuria, Tibet, xinjiang, Inner Mongolia). The colonizers could not manage to break the empire into pieces in the imperialist era.
“汉帝国”或中国
为什么?
·中国多次分裂，但每次都再次统一，这是其他帝国无法做到的壮举。
·然而，它是唯一一个从古代一直控制到今天的帝国，甚至还能吞并其他王国的领土(列举现在边境地区)。在帝国主义时代，殖民者没能把帝国分裂成碎片。
Despite being defeated by invaders, Han Chinese converted their conquerors to become “Han Chinese” as themselves.
The richness and grandeur of Han Chinese Empire (Tang, Song, Ming dynasties) were unmatched at that time.
Throughout the history of mankind, one of the largest cities have always been in China or Han Chinese Empire.
Han Chinese Empire was advanced in science and economy until the empire was outpaced by the Europeans in the 18-19th century.
China had a large percentage of world population since antiquity.
·尽管被侵略者打败了，汉人还是把他们的征服者变成了“汉人”。
·汉帝国(唐、宋、明)的富裕和宏伟在当时是无与伦比的。
·纵观人类历史，最大的城市之一一直在中国或汉朝帝国。
·汉帝国在科学和经济上一直很先进，直到18-19世纪被欧洲人超越。
·中国自古以来就占世界人口的很大比例。
The richness and grandeur of Han Chinese Empire (Tang, Song, Ming dynasties) were unmatched at that time.
Throughout the history of mankind, one of the largest cities have always been in China or Han Chinese Empire.
Han Chinese Empire was advanced in science and economy until the empire was outpaced by the Europeans in the 18-19th century.
China had a large percentage of world population since antiquity.
·尽管被侵略者打败了，汉人还是把他们的征服者变成了“汉人”。
·汉帝国(唐、宋、明)的富裕和宏伟在当时是无与伦比的。
·纵观人类历史，最大的城市之一一直在中国或汉朝帝国。
·汉帝国在科学和经济上一直很先进，直到18-19世纪被欧洲人超越。
·中国自古以来就占世界人口的很大比例。
There were many large, grand buildings in China. These were products of the Empire. This includes the Great Wall of China, The Grand Canal, Forbidden City, Terracotta Army, Longmen Grottoes, and many more.
Chinese culture and art were so intricate and refined. Han Chinese even managed to preserve their culture and art until present-day.
The language of the Empire or Chinese has still been spoken by a large percentage of world population.
No invader can penetrate a unified Chinese empire throughout its history.
China is always the world power in almost every period of history with the only exception during the century of humiliation (1849–1949).
And many more
·在中国有许多高大宏伟的建筑。这些都是帝国的产物。这包括中国的长城、大运河、紫禁城、兵马俑、龙门石窟等等。
·中国的文化和艺术是如此复杂和精致。汉人甚至设法保存了他们的文化和艺术，直到今天。
·帝国的语言或汉语仍然被世界上很大一部分人口使用。
·在历史上，没有一个侵略者能够渗透到一个统一的中华帝国。
·中国几乎在每个历史时期都是世界强国，唯一的例外是屈辱的世纪(1849-1949)。
还有更多
Chinese culture and art were so intricate and refined. Han Chinese even managed to preserve their culture and art until present-day.
The language of the Empire or Chinese has still been spoken by a large percentage of world population.
No invader can penetrate a unified Chinese empire throughout its history.
China is always the world power in almost every period of history with the only exception during the century of humiliation (1849–1949).
And many more
·在中国有许多高大宏伟的建筑。这些都是帝国的产物。这包括中国的长城、大运河、紫禁城、兵马俑、龙门石窟等等。
·中国的文化和艺术是如此复杂和精致。汉人甚至设法保存了他们的文化和艺术，直到今天。
·帝国的语言或汉语仍然被世界上很大一部分人口使用。
·在历史上，没有一个侵略者能够渗透到一个统一的中华帝国。
·中国几乎在每个历史时期都是世界强国，唯一的例外是屈辱的世纪(1849-1949)。
还有更多
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Every other answer above is a good one, be it Roman, Persian, Mongol, British, etc, but I always like to answer Ottoman, because they came the closest to domination of the world. One siege, that of Vienna, was all that kept the Ottomans from trampling all of southern and central Europe. Had they won, they would have claimed hegemony over practically the entire continent. We know that even without that they lasted another 500 years, so who knows how long they could have made it from there. Compare with the British, who were always stricken with debt, the Roman, limited on all sides by Persians (I know thats not what they were called), Germans, or desert, or the Persian/Mongols, who on two separate occasions failed campaigns against the Greek/Japanese respectively, the Ottoman came the closest to winning it all. If that’s how you measure greatness, of course.
上面的其他答案都很好，无论是罗马人、波斯人、蒙古人、英国人等等，但我总是喜欢回答奥斯曼人，因为他们最接近统治世界。一次对维也纳的围攻，阻止了奥斯曼人践踏整个南欧和中欧。如果他们赢了，他们就会宣称对几乎整个大陆的霸权。我们知道，即使没有这些，他们又持续了500年，所以谁知道他们能从那里走多久。英国人总是负债累累，罗马人被波斯人(我知道他们不是这样称呼的)、德国人、沙漠人、波斯/蒙古人所限制，他们分别在两次不同的场合对希腊/日本人失败了，与之相比，奥斯曼人是最接近胜利的。当然，如果这就是你衡量伟大的方式。
the ottoman empire was dying for centuries it was technologically retarded thats why europe gained and it no longer exists
奥斯曼帝国几个世纪以来一直在消亡，它的技术落后，这就是欧洲取得胜利而不再存在的原因
Maybe by the 1800s, but at their peak they possessed the strongest army and most advanced military and scientific equipment in the world. Not only that, but there is something to be said about an empire built many centuries ago that remains, even in a weakened state. All empires ascend the staircase of greatness in military boots and descend in silk slippers, the ottomans managed to delay that for as long as possible. The romans stagnated, and the Germans came. The Persians stagnated, and the Greeks came. The fact that Turkey can still directly connect its government to the Ottomans is something special; Italy was divided, Persia was Arabized, but Turkey has not been conquered by a foreign nation since the ottomans themselves took it from the Byzantines.
也许是在19世纪，但在他们的鼎盛时期，他们拥有世界上最强大的军队和最先进的军事和科学设备。不仅如此，一个几百年前建立的帝国，即使在一个衰弱的国家里，仍然存在着一些东西。所有的帝国都穿着军靴登上辉煌的阶梯，穿着丝绸拖鞋走下辉煌的阶梯，而奥斯曼帝国则尽可能地拖延了这一进程。罗马人停滞不前，日耳曼人来了。波斯人停滞不前，希腊人来了。土耳其仍然可以将其政府与奥斯曼帝国直接联系起来，这一事实很特别;意大利被分裂了，波斯被阿拉伯化了，但土耳其并没有被外国征服，因为它是奥斯曼人自己从拜占庭人手中夺走的。
Most successful in what way?
It's not difficult to nominate contenders for the greatest empire by extent: the British, the Roman, Mongolian;, Persian, Alexandrian, Chinese, Ottoman, Soviet unx empires and others occupied large areas administered by their respective rulers or appointed administration.
The British Empire is the outstanding example of being a non contiguous empire, an island controlling vast and remote lands. Of course other European powers did the same just not to the extent the British did.
最成功的方式是什么?
提名最伟大帝国的竞争者并不困难:大英帝国、罗马帝国、蒙古帝国、波斯帝国、亚历山大帝国、中国帝国、奥斯曼帝国、苏联帝国和其他帝国都占据了由各自统治者或指定政府管理的大片地区。
大英帝国是一个非连续帝国的杰出例子，一个控制着广阔而偏远土地的岛屿。当然，其他欧洲大国也做了同样的事情，只是程度不及英国。
历史总是如此短暂，我认为最成功的帝国的头衔是，大英帝国是最近的，它留下了相对稳定的政府和法治，高效的使用英语的公务员制度，以及议会民主。几乎所有英国统治过的地方都实行了民主。甚至在第二次世界大战后美国统治之前，大英帝国的英语使用已经影响了英语作为事实上的商业和交流媒介的全球传播。所有商业航空公司的飞行员和机场都必须使用英语。格林尼治标准时间是一个全球标准时间。在大英帝国没落几十年后，它的影响在英联邦国家、英语的使用、教育(英国大学仍然很受欢迎，许多国家的领导人都曾在那里接受过教育)、司法、法律和宪法中的权利等方面继续存在。新加坡的法官出庭时仍然穿着源自英国的正式长袍和假发。
First off, one needs to establish how success of an empire is measured.
Is it land mass?
首先，我们需要确定如何衡量一个帝国的成功。
是陆地块吗?
军事实力?
积累财富？
国民的生活水平?
科学/文化进步?
长寿？
Disclaimer: The rest of this answer will be determining the success of empires based on standard of living, advancements and lognevity.
It is my personal and arbitrary opinion that, historically, empires can be identified as belonging to one of two general types. And these two types are, wait for it, *drum roll* :
就我个人而言，我对后三者很感兴趣。但这当然是主观的。
免责声明:这个答案的其余部分将决定帝国的成功基于生活水平，进步和长寿。
我个人武断地认为，从历史上看，帝国可以分为两种类型。而这两种类型是：请稍等，鼓声：
A Land-Grab empire, the most common type, is the type of empire interested most in the first three attributes I described above. We need more land and resources (land mass), which we will grab from our neighbors. To do this we will create a mighty army (military strength). When we’re done, we’ll stockpile all their grain, horses or TV sets deep inside the vaults of our tower of doom (accumulated riches). And we’ll keep doing this till we run out of lands to conquer. Or vaults to stockpile the spoils. Or both.
掠夺土地和金钱的帝国。
掠夺土地帝国是最常见的帝国类型，它对我上面描述的前三个属性最感兴趣。我们需要更多的土地和资源，我们会从邻国那里抢夺。为此，我们将建立一支强大的军队。当我们完成后，我们将把他们所有的粮食、马匹或电视机储存在我们的厄运之塔(积累的财富)的地下室深处。我们会一直这么做，直到我们没有土地可征服。或是储藏战利品的地窖。或两者兼而有之。
另一方面，一个抢钱帝国对抢邻居的钱感兴趣。我听到你问有什么不同。根本的区别在于，这种类型的帝国首先希望他们的邻国有钱。为了礼貌地宰了他们。并希望他们继续赚钱，以便永远剥削他们。很大的差别。这些少数帝国将为其所有臣民展示高水平的生活，将产生大量的附加值产品(进步)，例如与当地人进行贸易的珠子或iphone，并且从长远来看将更具可持续性(长寿)。
Let’s test this hypothesis.
进一步扩展我的武断陈述，我将得出结论，即掠夺金钱的帝国远比掠夺土地的帝国成功。它们更可持续，比土地掠夺帝国更长寿。即使他们离开了，他们也为人类留下了伟大的成就。另一方面，掠夺土地的帝国来来去去，唯一持久的影响是在历史书和军事院校。
我们来验证一下这个假设。
Although the term Persian Gold seems to imply otherwise, those guys were basically Land-Grabbers. Starting with Cyrus the Great who unified the nomadic Persian tribes, they galloped their way through Messopotamia, Anatolia, Egypt even. They grabbed enormous amounts of land and taxed everybody afterwards. Admittedly, they were lenient rulers but failed to evolve past the land grabbing mindset. So they persihed quite soon leaving nothing but a few ruins behind. My score will thus be rather low for them, I’m leaning towards a 4.
波斯帝国
虽然“波斯黄金”这个词似乎暗示着另一种情况，但这些人基本上是土地掠夺者。从统一波斯游牧部落的居鲁士大帝开始，他们穿过美索不达米亚，安纳托利亚，甚至埃及。他们攫取了大量土地，然后向所有人征税。诚然，他们是仁慈的统治者，但未能摆脱掠夺土地的心态。所以他们很快就灭亡了，只留下一些废墟。因此，我的分数相对较低，我倾向于4分。
Philip II grabbed the lands of Greece, his son Alexander III grabbed the lands of Persia. Land grabbers to the bone, both of them. No wonder within 40 years they were both dead and their empire died with them. On a scale of 1 to 10 I give them 2. Not for what they did but what some of their Diadochi would later achieve, well, basically the Ptolemies.
马其顿帝国
腓力二世夺取了希腊的土地，他的儿子亚历山大三世夺取了波斯的土地。他们都是不折不扣的土地掠夺者。难怪在40年内他们都死了，他们的帝国也随之灭亡。在1到10的范围内，我给他们打2分。不是因为他们做了什么而是因为他们的一些继业者后来取得了什么成就，基本上就是托勒密王朝。
A tricky one. Their mindset was Land Grab right from the start. Build a fantastic army, conquer thy neighbor, give your veteran legionnairies farmland in the conquered lands. Although they were good with engineering and money counting, the bitter truth is that once they ran out of land worth conquering (the Rhine, the Picts, the Parthians, the Sahara) the model wasn’t working anymore. They just couldn’t turn it around to Money-Grab so within a couple of centuries Rome had fallen. I give them 6 out of 10. For the orgies.
罗马帝国
一个棘手的问题。他们从一开始就抱着抢地的心态。建立一支神奇的军队，征服你的邻居，在被征服的土地上给你的老兵军团耕地。尽管他们擅长工程和金钱计算，但痛苦的事实是，一旦他们耗尽了值得征服的土地(莱茵河、皮克特人、帕提亚人、撒哈拉沙漠)，这种模式就不再有效了。他们无法将其转变为金钱掠夺，所以在几个世纪内，罗马就衰落了。我给他们打6分。为了狂欢。
This might come as a surprise to many but the Byzantines were the first (to my knowledge) money grabbers. They sat behind their walls in Costantinoble and taxed everybody who passing through the Straights. Black Sea shipping. Silk Road caravans. They made a ton of money by just sitting on their a$$es. When raging barbarians besieged them they rarely went out to fight. They just bribed them to go away. Perhaps marry off some unfortunate princess to the brute son of the Khan and all was settled. Fact of the matter is they outlived the Western Roman empire by 1000 years! As in a whole millenium. Ingenious. So this mindset actually works! I would give the Byzantines a very high score but I’ll leave them with a 7. Because they were so obsessed with religion they didn’t leave us with anything of note except ellaborate churches.
拜占庭帝国
这可能会让很多人感到惊讶，但拜占庭人是第一个(据我所知)抢钱的人。他们坐在君士坦丁堡的城墙后面，向所有经过海峡的人收税。黑海航运。丝绸之路商队。他们靠坐享其成赚了一大笔钱。当愤怒的野蛮人围攻他们时，他们很少出去战斗。他们只是贿赂他们离开。也许把某个不幸的公主嫁给大汗的野蛮儿子，一切就都解决了。事实是他们比西罗马帝国多活了1000年!整整一千年。巧妙的。所以这种心态确实有效!我会给拜占庭人一个很高的分数，但我会给他们一个7分。因为他们对宗教如此痴迷，除了精致的教堂外，他们没有给我们留下任何值得注意的东西。
They came, they conquered, they butchered, they made a total mess and then they just left. Oh, the Khan is dead? We’re outta here! Sorry Mongols, it’s a 1 from me.
蒙古帝国
他们来了，他们征服了，他们屠杀了，他们搞得一团糟，然后就离开了。大汗死了?我们要走了!对不起，蒙古人，我给它打1分。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
In the long tradition of nomadic invaders, the Ottomans started their westward expansion with a pure Land-Grab mentality. In the process they became good administrators and, at times, were lenient with their subjects. That in my agenda makes their score comparable to the Persians. But I’ll cut off one point and give them a 3. Because unlike the Persians, they should’ve known better. They conquered that magnificent little piece of real estate, Costantinople. And instead of learning from the Byzantines and turning Money-Grab on us all, they just kept going for Vienna. Boring.
奥斯曼帝国
在游牧侵略者的悠久传统中，奥斯曼人以一种纯粹的抢地心态开始了他们的西扩。在这个过程中，他们成为了优秀的管理者，有时对他们的臣民很宽容。在我的议程中，这使得他们的得分与波斯人相当。但我要去掉一个点，给他们一个3分。因为他们不像波斯人，他们应该更清楚。他们征服了君士坦丁堡这片宏伟的土地。他们没有向拜占庭人学习，也没有向我们所有人讨要金钱，而是继续向维也纳进军。无聊。
What a wasted opportunity here. They discovered a New World full of gold and people. They only saw the gold apparently. The natives were only as good as the gold they could bring in. So most of them were left to die from desease or blade. So what, we’ll just bring in another shipload of Africans to do the work. And that ship would return to Spain filled with gold. Land-Grabbing mantality at its finest. Had they treated the natives a little better they’d probably have kept their vast empire a bit longer. So I’m giving them a 4. Mainly for the Spanish Armada which gave birth to…
西班牙帝国
真是浪费了一个好机会。他们发现了一个充满黄金和人类的新世界。他们只是明显地看到了金子。当地人的好坏取决于他们能带来多少金子。所以他们中的大多数人都死于疾病或刀剑。那又怎样，我们就再找一船非洲人来做这项工作。那艘船将满载黄金返回西班牙。最厉害的是掠夺土地的心态。如果他们对当地人好一点，他们可能会让他们庞大的帝国保持得更久一点。我给它打4分。主要是西班牙无敌舰队，它诞生了…
Revenge of the money grabbers. You have to respect the land to power ratio here. Such a small place controlling such vast amounts of wealth and power. West Indies Trading Co. Adam Smith. Mercantilism. No, we won’t steal your cocoa. We’ll trade your year’s produce for this lovely pair of scissors. Thank you old chap, see you next year! I’d give them a 10 but they sort of messed up with the colonists in N. America and that would mark the beginning of the end of their empire. But they were the first to trully get it. So it’s a 9 from me.
大英帝国
掠夺钱财者的复仇。你必须考虑到这里的土地与权力的比例。一个如此小的地方控制着如此庞大的财富和权力。西印度贸易公司、亚当·斯密、重商主义。不，我们不会偷你们的可可豆。我们会用一年的产量来交换这对可爱的剪刀。谢谢老兄，明年见！我会给他们一个10分，但是他们在北美的殖民地问题上出了点问题，这标志着他们帝国的终结的开始。但他们是第一个真正理解这一点的人。所以我给他们打9分。
Lebensraum. One word - so efficiently German - to summarize the whole paragraph I used to describe Land Grabbing. Great army. Grab grab grab ze land around us. Meanwhile, we are short on Iron Ore and Oil. And noone will trade any with us. It’s a ZERO from me. For the crematoriums.
第三帝国
生存空间。用一个词——如此高效的德语——来概括我用来描述土地掠夺的整个段落。伟大的军队。抢，抢，抢我们周围的土地。同时，我们缺乏铁矿石和石油。没有人会和我们交易。我给它打零分。用于火葬场。
Another grab grab grab the land contester. No crematoriums but hey, they have Nanking to be proud of. Another flat ZERO here.
日本帝国
另一个抢抢抢地的竞争者。没有火葬场，但是他们有南京值得骄傲。这里又是一个零分。
Started out as pure Land Grabbers. But after they were done evicting or exterminating the Native Americans they quickly figured this wasn’t the way to go any further. And remarkably turned Money-Grab overnight! They bought Florida and Alaska. They gave Europe the Marshall Plan. Then, while the Soviets were busy making hordes of tanks, the US were busy selling the world Coca Cola, McDonnald’s and Hollywood. And won the Cold War in the most American of ways, by outspending the other guy. For these reasons, I don’t think Pax Americana is going anywhere any time soon. But even if it goes away tomorrow, that empire gave us… the Internet.
That alone scores enough points on my scoreboard to win this contest.
美利坚合众国
开始只是纯粹的土地掠夺者。但在驱逐或灭绝土著美洲人后，他们很快意识到这不是继续前进的方式。令人惊讶的是，他们一夜之间变成了金钱掠夺者！他们购买了佛罗里达和阿拉斯加。他们给予了欧洲马歇尔计划。而苏联忙于生产大批坦克时，美国则忙于向世界销售可口可乐、麦当劳和好莱坞。通过超越对手的支出，在最具美国特色的方式下赢得了冷战。基于这些原因，我认为美国和平主宰将在不久的将来依然存在。即使它明天消失了，那个帝国给了我们……互联网。
单凭这一点，在我的评分板上已经足够赢得这场比赛了。
I would have to say the Roman Empire, as it had the greatest impact on Western Civilization of any empire in history. In fact, Western Civilization would be so totally different without the contributions of the Romans and their Empire that,without that historical input, people today would not recognize “Western” civilization at all… it would be so different. In so many ways, even in something as common in use as a calendar, the “Imperium Romanorum” is the very foundation of Western Civilization, which for good, and often for ill,has had the most influence and impact on the world as a whole. Even ancient cultures in India, China,Japan, and elsewhere had to adopt, often by force but sometimes willingly, ‘Western” culture and civilization, which by now has become in the 21st Century, (itself a western concept) THE standard culture of the entire planet.
我不得不说是罗马帝国，因为它对西方文明的影响是历史上所有帝国中最大的。事实上，如果没有罗马人和他们的帝国的贡献，西方文明将会完全不同，如果没有这些历史的输入，今天的人们根本不会认识到“西方”文明……它将会如此不同。在很多方面，甚至在像日历这样常用的东西上，“罗马帝国”是西方文明的基础，无论好坏，它对整个世界都有最大的影响和影响。即使是印度、中国、日本和其他地方的古老文化也不得不采用，通常是通过武力，但有时是自愿的，“西方”文化和文明，现在已经成为21世纪整个地球的标准文化(本身就是一个西方概念)。
英国、西班牙和蒙古帝国可能更大，中国、印度和日本可能更古老，但它们都没有罗马帝国的历史影响。“帝国”的概念本身就来自罗马，其他文化，无论是古代还是现代，总是被比作帝国，潜在的帝国，或声称的帝国，罗马帝国，这已经成为历史上的“黄金标准”，意味着什么是帝国的力量。“皇帝”被认为是高于国王、总统和王子的最高政治权威，这一事实是由于罗马凯撒的榜样和先例，这在两千多年后的政治和流行文化中仍然很明显。《星球大战》就是最近的一个例子!