在中国，购买电动车已经比汽油车便宜
In China, It’s Already Cheaper to Buy EVs Than Gasoline Cars
译文简介
我上周刚从深圳回来，现在路上大约70%的车都是电动的。
正文翻译
In China, It’s Already Cheaper to Buy EVs Than Gasoline Cars
在中国，购买电动汽车已经比汽油汽车便宜
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I just got back from Shenzhen last week and about 70% of the cars on the road now are electric. Nearly every parking spot has an electric charger now. It’s insane how they went from 0 to electric is just one pandemic. Also the air smells much better in the cities now, and is quieter.
I’m excited for our electric future, and a China is certainly leading the way in that. Batteries will continue to get cheaper and better, faster than we think.
我上周刚从深圳回来，现在路上大约70%的车都是电动的。现在几乎每个停车位都有充电器。令人觉得疯狂的是，他们如何只用一场大流行的时间从零发展到电动。而且现在城市里的空气闻起来好多了，也更安静了。
我对我们电动的未来感到兴奋，中国无疑在这方面处于领先地位。电池将继续变得更便宜、更好，速度比我们想象的要快。
In Shanghai and some surrounding cities I've been in there's a huge reliance on electric scooters so the charging/range anxiety is part of the culture. Switching to small electric cars is not a big leap..
在上海和我去过的一些周边城市，人们非常依赖两轮电动车，因此充电/续航焦虑早已成为当地文化的一部分。改用小型电动汽车并不是一个多大的跃进。
I think people would be surprised to know the lifestyle of working class/lower middle class people is actually above our own here in America. They are fucking enjoying themselves out there. They may be living with their parents well into older age but the day to day is FUN.
我认为人们会惊讶地发现中国工人阶级/中下层阶级的生活方式实际上高于我们在美国的生活方式。他们在那里过得很开心。他们可能和父母一起生活到老，但每天都很开心。
Says the person who has never been to the US.
一位从未去过美国的人士说道。
Of course. Mass produced tech drops in price rapidly as economy of scale is realized. We learned this in the Industrial Revolution.
没什么奇怪的。随着规模经济的实现，可以大规模生产的技术的价格迅速下降。我们在工业革命中已经学到了这一点。
Oil lobby made a lot of.people conveniently forget
石油游说团体让很多人轻而易举地忘记了这一点
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SEfwoqKRU8
oof
hundreds of thousands of EVs abandoned.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SEfwoqKRU8
数十万辆电动汽车被遗弃。
This is the type of result you get when you search china ev on youtube. I feel like it's somewhat a psy op. You're telling me no one's trying to export those? Not even one random youtuber getting their hands on one or walking through those fields?
这就是你在 Youtube 上搜索 china ev（中国电动车） 时得到的结果。我觉得这有点像心理战。你是说明明生产出来了但是没人想出口这些东西？或者这么多youtuber就连一个也没有弄到过一辆这些废弃的电动车或者只是路过过那些田地？
Yeah I remember seeing this when Tesla-Q was really active a few years ago too. "Tesla isn't selling cars it just makes them and hides them in a field" lol
funny but lies
是啊，我记得几年前特斯拉-Q非常火爆的时候也看到过这种说法。“特斯拉不卖汽车，只是制造汽车并把它们藏在田里”，笑死我了。
有趣，但是个谎言
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Not surprising; they're cheaper to make, with fewer moving parts. Prices are artificially high in the US right now as manufacturers try to protect profits, but when the wave of low-cost EVs arrives from overseas, I think many will be stunned at how cheap they can be.
这并不奇怪；它们的制造成本更低，活动部件更少。现在，由于制造商试图保护利润，美国的电动汽车价格被人为地抬高了，但当海外的低成本电动汽车浪潮到来时，我想很多人会对它们的廉价程度感到震惊。
What profit? Most manufacturers are losing money on EVs.
The reason Chinese EVs are cheaper is that they are smaller, and American consumers would never buy a small car.
什么利润？大多数制造商在电动汽车上都在赔钱。
中国电动汽车之所以便宜，是因为它们更小，而美国消费者绝不会买小汽车。
They aren’t though, most of the popular EVs are full-size sedans or something akin to a small station wagon.
但事实并非如此，大多数流行的电动汽车都是全尺寸轿车或类似于小型旅行车的东西。
What models are you talking about? The Hong Guang Mini and the Qin, the best selling EVs in China, are both significantly smaller than the Model 3.
你说的是哪些型号？宏光迷你和秦是中国最畅销的电动汽车，它们的体积都比 Model 3 小得多。
The Ei5 and Han are wildly popular. Every cab I rode in in Shanghai was an Ei5. They’re not all super small vehicles.
Ei5和汉非常受欢迎。我在上海坐过的出租车都是Ei5。它们并不都是超小型车辆。
Manufacturers are losing money on EVs right now.
制造商目前在电动汽车上正在亏损。
Not all, and that’s because it requires a full 180 on their “way of working” and change cost money. Once they have good EV platforms it will be easy
并非全部，因为这需要对他们的“工作方式”进行彻底的180度大转弯，而改变是要花钱的。一旦他们有了好的电动车平台，就会很容易了
True. I’m just pushing back on the notion that prices are artificially high because companies are protecting profits. If anything, it’s the opposite: prices are artificially low right now because companies are sacrificing profits — with the hope and expectation that they can return to profitability once the transition is complete.
没错。我只是在反驳“价格虚高是因为公司在保护利润”的说法。硬要说的话，情况恰恰相反：现在的价格之所以被人为压低，是因为企业在牺牲利润--我希望并期待在转型完成后能够恢复盈利。
Ah yes the country where the government runs every company directly or indirectly and has an almost monopoly on key battery components and the minerals has cheap EVs.. who’d have guessed
啊，是的，这个国家的政府直接或间接管理着每一家公司，几乎垄断了关键的电池组件和矿物，所以能够拥有廉价的电动汽车……谁能想到呢？
It's been that way in China for quite some time. Because in China NEVs (neighborhood electric vehicles) are counted as EVs, at least by press outside the country.
NEVs are simpler vehicles with reduced capabilities. Sort of like another step below a city car. So of course they cost less.
The BYD Dolphin indicated is an 85HP car with about 160 miles EPA range. It's a city car. So of course it costs less than a local-market Jetta. Also note both are missing certain crash safety features, like NEVs are.
As to the Model 3 it's cheaper than the other cars it is compared against for the same reason EVs are already cheaper in Norway than ICE cars ... because of tariffs that make the ICE cars cost more.
在中国，这种情况已经持续了很长时间。因为在中国，新能源汽车（小区电动车）被算作电动车，至少国外媒体是这么认为的。
新能源汽车是一种功能较弱的简单汽车。有点像比城市汽车低一级的汽车。因此，它们的价格当然更低。
比亚迪“海豚”是一款功率为 85 马力的汽车，EPA 续航里程约为 160 英里。这是一款城市汽车。因此，它的价格当然低于本地市场的捷达。还要注意的是，这两款车都缺少某些碰撞安全功能，就像新能源汽车一样。
至于 Model 3，它比其他汽车便宜的原因与电动汽车在挪威已经比内燃机汽车便宜的原因相同......因为关税使内燃机汽车的价格更高。
This is what I came here looking for. You can buy an EV from China for like $3k, it runs on a washing machine motor and goes about 30 mph, but it's technically an EV.
这就是我想看到的评论。你可以花 3000 美元从中国购买一辆电动汽车，它由洗衣机电机驱动，时速约为 30 英里/小时，但从技术上讲，它是一辆电动汽车。
I think it's great they have NEVs and city cars. They have their uses.
The US and Canada had city cars and EV city cars for like 10 years and now they are gone again. I would love to see them come back.
But you do have to not accidentally compare a city car or NEV to a "regular" car. It's just not a fair comparison.
我认为他们拥有新能源汽车和城市汽车是件好事。这些车有自己的用途。
美国和加拿大拥有城市汽车和电动城市汽车大概有 10 年的时间，现在它们又消失了。我很希望它们能回来。
但是，你也不能一不小心就把城市汽车或新能源汽车与“普通”汽车相提并论。这样的比较并不公平。
The sad thing is that a 30mph washing machine powered vehicle would be fine for 90% of the trips made by 5000lb trucks.
可悲的是，以洗衣机为动力、时速 30 英里的汽车可以满足 5000 磅卡车 90% 的行驶需求。
I would imagine that most truck owners living in the suburbs go faster than 30 miles an hour pretty much every time they drive
我印象中大多数居住在郊区的卡车车主每次开车时的行驶速度几乎都超过每小时 30 英里
People should also keep in mind that over 50% of electricity in China comes from burning coal. Mining coal (and lithium, for that matter) isn't great for the workers and locals.
The safety features in the cars themselves might not be so important if you compare it to climate change and pollution. It's gonna kill a lot of people either way.
人们还应该记住，中国超过 50% 的电力来自煤炭燃烧。煤矿（以及锂矿）的开采对工人和当地居民来说都不是好事。
如果与气候变化和污染相比，汽车本身的安全性能可能就不那么重要了。无论如何，它都会HS很多人。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
OP
We’re starting to see that situation play out in the auto industry. Since Tesla Inc. and Mitsubishi Motors Corp. started developing the first mass-market electric cars in the late 2000s, battery vehicles have struggled with a higher cost structure that even subsidies and manufacturer losses haven’t been sufficient to surmount. That’s finally changing — and China is leading the way.
我们开始看到这种情况在汽车行业上演。自特斯拉公司和三菱汽车公司在 2000 年代末开始开发首款大众市场电动汽车以来，电池汽车一直在与较高的成本结构作斗争，即使补贴和制造商亏损也不足以克服这一问题。这种情况终于发生了改变，而中国正在引领这一潮流。
Most westerners don't realize how far ahead China is on infrastructure. Ten years ago I had the opportunity to travel on the high speed rail network. 300km/hr city to city connections. It was amazing.
大多数西方人并没有意识到中国在基础设施方面的领先程度。十年前，我有机会乘坐高铁网络旅行。城市与城市之间的时速达 300 公里。这真是令人惊叹。
Westerners? Most high speed trains in Europe hit 300kph easily. Japan, Korea, and plenty of other countries have high speed rail too.
Mostly just North Americans (Canadians and US) that don't have high speed rail.
西方人？欧洲大多数高速列车都能轻松达到 300 公里/小时。日本、韩国和很多其他国家也有高铁。
只有北美人（加拿大人和美国人）没有高铁。
Most Americans don't even realize they're 5 years behind the rest of Western civilization too
大多数美国人甚至没有意识到他们比西方文明的其他国家也落后了 5 年。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
It’s a lot more than 5 tbh… our society (US) is built entirely around cars (extremely inefficient and high cost of entry) with the exception of — what — some parts of some older cities like NYC, Boston, and the ultimate exception: DC (complicated, but I think this is because the wealthy and powerful want a nice city to live in so they invested in rail)
我们的社会（美国）完全是围绕汽车建立起来的（效率极低，进入成本高），除了--什么--一些老城市的部分地区，如纽约市、波士顿，以及最终的例外： 华盛顿特区（情况复杂，但我认为这是因为有钱有势的人希望有一个宜居的城市，所以他们投资建设了轨道交通）
Don’t these public transportations have a lot of problems with crime? People get spit on and harassed and who wants that.
这些公共交通工具不是有很多犯罪问题吗？人们被吐口水、被骚扰，谁愿意去坐啊？
Sure, but in countries with less crime it’s not really an issue (like Western Europe as was the initial comparison) because people in poverty are more likely to commit crime and are also more likely to benefit from public transportation. Not an indictment of public transportation, but an indictment of poverty
当然，但在犯罪率较低的国家，这算不上什么问题（比如最初拿来比较的西欧），因为贫困人口更有可能犯罪，也更有可能从公共交通中受益。这不是对公共交通的控诉，而是对贫困的控诉
The wealthy and powerful do not take public transit lmfao.
The public transit systems in those cities were made because it was viable to do so
It is not viable to make rail based public transit systems in much of the US due to the suburban sprawl.
有钱有势的人不坐公交，笑。
这些城市的公共交通系统的建立是因为在这些地方可行。
由于郊区无序扩张，在美国大部分地区建立以轨道为基础的公共交通系统并不可行。
A state capitalist economy raping the earth for minerals and subsidizing production: the sustainable match made in heaven.
国家资本主义经济掠夺地球上的矿产并补贴生产：可持续发展的天作之合。
But it would seem to be that the earth is getting incredibly raped by most nations, and in those nations, the richest people are responsible for the majority of the damage due to their lifestyles.
但现在看来，地球正遭到大多数国家令人难以置信的蹂躏，而在这些国家中，最富有的人因其生活方式而对大部分损害负有责任。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Chinese EVs don't drive very far, and are meant for only short distances. American EVs are more expensive because they have bigger batteries. If you tried to use a foreign built EV in America your car would likely die on the highway in the middle of nowhere.
中国的电动汽车开不了多远，只能短途行驶。美国的电动汽车更贵，因为它们的电池更大。如果你想在美国使用外国制造的电动汽车，你的车很可能会在荒郊野外的高速公路上熄火。
I can drive from Wellington to Hamilton New Zealand on a single charge in my BYD Atto 3. Cope harder.
我的比亚迪 Atto 3 充一次电就可以从新西兰惠灵顿开到汉密尔顿。
Huh, the Han and Seal are good looking sedans.
呵呵，汉、海豹都是好看的轿车。
Trying to convince the girlfriend to let me buy her the Han or Dolphin so I can drive it. She wasn’t interested in the GWM Ora Good Cat, even though I think it looks dope.
我试图说服女朋友让我给她买一辆汉或者海豚，这样我就能开了。她对长城的好猫不感兴趣，尽管我认为它看起来很酷。
That's only 500ish km... How long does it take to recharge? Whenever I road trip, I try to get at least 700 in per day.
Could you recharge 200 km on a 35 min lunch break??
Here in North America we don't get as much vacation time as other places. An extra two or three days travel means two less days of vacation. If I'm driving to BC for skiing, I'll do it in two days. It'll be a rough two days, but I'll make it happen. If I could only go 500km in a day, it'd take me 5 days each way... 10 days travel for 5 days of skiing doesn't make much sense if you only get a few weeks off each year. I could fly, but apparently that's worse for the planet. Here in Canada, our trains are so bad that taking a train is somehow worse than flying in an airliner. I dunno... It's a catch 22. I'd like to drive a battery powered car, but the technology just isn't there for my needs yet. Before you say "oh well if you only do that once a year, who cares", this year I've been out to BC, down to Colorado, Chicago, with two more road trips planned before the year is done (to be fair, the upcoming two are medical, but I still have to drive).
So far, this seems to be the best solution, but that limits your ability to tow anything else. Maybe one day we'll see campers designed for EVs with batteries designed to offset the range lost by towing something, or potentially even extend it further.
Not trying to "cope" or start a pissing match, just trying to learn more and find something that suits my needs.
区区 500 多公里...充电需要多长时间？每次公路旅行，我都会尝试每天至少行驶 700 公里。
你能用 35 分钟的午休时间充行驶 200 公里的电吗？
在北美，我们的假期不像其他地方那么多。多花两三天在路上就意味着少两天的假期。如果我开车去不列颠哥伦比亚省滑雪，我会在两天内完成。这两天会很难熬，但咬咬牙也能做到。如果我一天只能走 500 公里，单程就要花 5 天时间......如果你每年只有几个星期的假期，那么 10 天的旅途换 5 天的滑雪就没什么意义了。我可以坐飞机，但显然这对地球更不利。在加拿大，我们的火车太糟糕了，坐火车比坐飞机还糟糕。
我不知道...这是个第二十二条军规似的陷阱 我也想开电池驱动的汽车，但现在的技术还不能满足我的需求。在你说“哦，如果你一年只做一次，谁在乎呢”之前，今年我已经去了不列颠哥伦比亚省、科罗拉多州和芝加哥，并计划在今年结束前再进行两次公路旅行（公平地说，即将到来的两次旅行是医疗旅行，但我仍然必须开车）。
到目前为止，拖挂式增程器似乎是最好的解决方案，但这也限制了你拖挂其他东西的能力。也许有一天，我们会看到专为电动汽车设计的拖挂设备，其电池的设计可以抵消因拖挂而损失的续航里程，甚至有可能进一步延长续航里程。
我并不是想“自慰”或挑起争端，只是想了解更多信息，找到适合我需要的东西。
Yes, I can. I can charge 10%-80% in ~35 minutes. Also, I’m an American citizen. I don’t know why people are acting like emigrating from the US isn’t a thing lol. Problem is, they don’t sell BYD cars in North America.
是的，我可以。我可以在35分钟内从10%充到80%的电。另外，我是美国公民。我不知道为什么人们表现得好像不会有人从美国移民出去，笑。不过问题是，他们不在北美销售比亚迪汽车。
Doesn't that cost over $50k though?
“我的比亚迪 Atto 3 ”
那部车不是超过 5 万美元吗？
Yeah NZD, like 32-35k USD.
是的，新西兰元，大约3.2-3.5万美元。
Isn't that pretty comparable to other cars on the market?
那和市面上的其他车价格差不多啊？
Yeah it is. It’s just funny to watch people trash Chinese EVs like there isn’t a good chance their EV has a BYD battery in it.
是这样没错。看着人们诋毁中国电动车，好像他们的电动车里没装有比亚迪的电池一样，我觉得很好笑。
Due to protectionist import taxes, the only Chinese EV most people in the US will ever see is a Polestar, and they rarely realize it's made in China. They make good cars. MG, Ora, BYD, and others are already moving units internationally, and it's only going to heat up from here.
由于保护主义的进口税，大多数美国人唯一能看到的中国电动汽车是北极星，但他们很少意识到它是中国制造的。中国制造的汽车不错。MG、Ora、比亚迪和其他公司已经在向国际市场推出电动车，而且这种趋势还会继续升温。
Ya byd supplies like 80 percent of the current batteries on the market. You think byd gives a shit if you buy one of their cars. Making cars is literally a hobby they pay for from selling batteries.
是的，目前市场上 80% 的电池都是比亚迪供应的。你以为比亚迪会在乎你买不买他们的车吗？制造汽车简直就是他们的业余爱好，他们靠卖电池赚钱。
China is simultaneously pathetically weak and a powerful enemy on Reddit, don’t you know? They can never do anything right, so anything good on Reddit is propaganda, thus these patriots have to chime in to unbrainwash you all.
中国在 Reddit 上既是弱得可怜的国家，又是强大的敌人，你们不知道吗？他们从来都做不好任何事，所以 Reddit 上关于中国的任何好事都是宣传，因此这些“爱国者”们不得不插话给你们洗洗N。
What is this in miles? USA people dont understand this comment.
“充一次电就可以从惠灵顿开到汉密尔顿。”
这是多少英里？美国人民不能理解这个评论。
Can you not embarrass Americans like a dumb fuck?
你能别像个傻子一样让美国人难堪吗？
Trump fans beat me to it.
特朗普的粉丝比我先一步（让美国人难堪）。
So you're a Trump fan?
这么说你是特朗普的粉丝喽？
US people
I got you fam, it’s about 4600 football fields.
“美国人民不能理解”
懂了，我来解释，大约有 4600 个橄榄球场那么宽。
What units do you prefer? Freedom per eagle?
你更喜欢什么单位？每只鹰的自由度？
It only has a 261 mi range(about 500km)
Just for some perspective, I live in Texas and the next major city is about 300 miles away.
My parents live 400 miles away.
And if you want to leave the state it's 600 miles.
There's a lot of empty land in Texas with no car chargers.
它的续航里程只有 261 英里（约 500 公里）
我住在德克萨斯州，距离下一个大城市大约 300 英里。
我父母住在 400 英里之外。
如果你想离开这个州，则需要 600 英里。
德克萨斯州既空旷又没有充电设备。
So put infrastructure in.
Be better.
Oh wait my bad. I forgot texas is moronic when it comes to infrastructure
因此，要投入基础设施建设。
变得更好
哦，等等，我的错。我忘了德州在基础设施建设方面是个白痴
It is, along with most of the US. That’s why all the bridges and tunnels have a D rating.
美国大部分地区都是如此。这就是为什么所有的桥梁和隧道都被评为 D 级。
So put infrastructure in.
Oh! Why didn't I think of that! I'll just go down to the infrastructure store and buy some all by myself.
Maybe a friend and I can put down the infrastructure across the entire state and have it finished by tomorrow.
I'm not the state of Texas jackass. I'm just a guy with an EV that has a bigger battery making the EV more expensive.
My argument was not against EV cars, It was the cost of the cars and why they cost more Then Chinese EVs.
“那把基础设施投进去”
我怎么没想到呢？我这就一个人去基础设施商店买一些。
也许我和朋友可以在整个州铺设基础设施，明天就可以完工了
我又不是德克萨斯州政府，蠢货。我只是一个拥有电动汽车的人，因为电动汽车的电池更大，所以价格更贵。
我的论点不是反对电动汽车，而是电动汽车的成本，以及为什么它们比中国电动汽车更贵。
Oh! Why didn''t I think of that
But communist China did all that quietly. Surely the centre of the universe where no other country exists can do better?
It only costs a few billion to address long range problem after all. These remote midway stations can just run on wind, solar and battery.
“我怎么没想到呢？”
但中国却悄无声息地做到了这一切。作为宇宙的中心，就没有一个其他国家能做得比他们更好了？
毕竟，解决远距离的问题只需花费几十亿美元。这些偏远的中途站只需依靠风能、太阳能和电池即可运行。
Even if there was infrastructure, how long does it take to charge? Not sure if I'd wanna be sitting in the middle of buttfuck nowhere, Texas for 40 mins while I wait for an extra couple hundred kilometers to trickle in.
即使有基础设施，充电需要多长时间？不确定我是否愿意在得克萨斯州这个鸟不生蛋的地方坐40分钟，同时还有几百公里的路要赶。
It's really not that bad.
It takes like 30 mins and you can stop and have a coffee and chill out.
If you're really that strat for time then sure it's a pain but for the majority of long distance drivers it's perfectly viable to have a 30min rest stop
真的没那么糟。
只需 30 分钟，你可以停下来喝杯咖啡，放松一下。
如果你真的很赶时间，那肯定会很麻烦，但对于大多数长途司机来说，长时间驾驶后休息 30 分钟是完全合适的。
The dinosaurs in Congress that pass laws for their rich friends are keeping the US in a place where in 30 years we won’t be able to catch up to the rest of the world. Everyone else is pushing EVs and high speed trains, meanwhile we are getting bigger and bigger gas guzzling cars, no public transport and less funding for climate change research. Yeah America we suck.
国会中那些为他们富有的朋友通过法律的恐龙们正在让美国在30年内无法赶上世界其他国家。其他人都在推动电动汽车和高速列车，与此同时，我们的耗油汽车越来越大，没有公共交通，气候变化研究的资金也越来越少。是的，我们美国糟透了。
Will be interesting to see if this trend continues in the states. Will EVs become more affordable here?
Somehow I doubt it but I guess we'll see.
这种趋势是否会在美国也这么发展，这将是一个有趣的问题。电动汽车在美国会变得更经济实惠吗？
我很怀疑，但我想我们会看到结果的。
In a free market they absolutely would. In an oligarchic market where the oil industry calls the shots — not a chance.
在自由市场上，绝对会。而在石油业呼风唤雨的寡头市场上，根本不可能。
That’s an oiligarchy
是石油寡头政治
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
What’s your definition of a “free market”? By conservative/libertarian definitions, it’s the “free market” that allowed oil companies to become that powerful to begin with. Would you view a market that’s regulated properly by competitive antitrust laws, as a “free market”?
你对“自由市场”的定义是什么？按照保守派/自由主义者的定义，正是“自由市场”让石油公司逐渐变得如此强大。你认为一个受到竞争性反垄断法适当监管的市场是“自由市场”吗？
I think a free market is a mathematical tool that can’t exist in reality. Or at least, doesn’t exist for long. Any kind of legal system means market regulation.
All real markets are regulated, either for the benefit of oligarchs, or the benefit of the public. In raising the term, my point is that China’s market is free-r since it allows the superior technology to flourish.
我认为自由市场是一种数学工具，在现实中不可能存在。至少，不会长期存在。任何一种法律制度都意味着市场监管。
所有真正的市场都受到监管，要么是为了寡头的利益，要么是为了公众的利益。在提出这个词时，我的观点是，中国的市场是自由的，因为它允许卓越的技术蓬勃发展。