网友讨论：朝鲜战争
The Secrets Of China''''s Cold War Strategy | Mao''''s Cold War | Timeline
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网友：在聊朝鲜战争之前，我们需要了解更多的背景：第一在过去500年里，中国曾多次出兵帮助朝鲜抗击日本侵略。此外，在19世纪后期，日本人先登陆朝鲜，之后才发动了对中国的入侵。因此如果朝鲜存在外国军队的话，那么中国就会非常关心，甚至会感到紧张......
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网友讨论：朝鲜战争
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great documentary, my great grandfather was a political commissar for the Chinese volunteers. My father and I used to debate the nature and historical influence of this war. He believed it was wrong to go into Korean. I argued that it was needed at the time for China to protect its own from bordering with a nation with US bases.
伟大的纪录片，我曾祖父曾是中国志愿军的政委。我爸爸和我曾讨论过这场战争的性质和历史影响。他认为参加朝鲜战争是一个错误。但我认为中国当时必须介入这场战争，否则与中国接壤的朝鲜地区就会出现美军基地。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I'm American and I agree with your statement about China needing to go into the Korean war because Korea bordered their country. But sadly, in the Korean War, the Soviet unx used the Chinese. Yes they did give them weapons, but the Soviet unx did not give the Chinese military the air cover over Korea as they promised. Once again I believe that China was used by the Soviet unx.
我是美国人，我同意你的看法，中国需要介入朝鲜战争，因为朝鲜和中国接壤。但是令人难过的是，在朝鲜战争中，苏联利用了中国人。是的，他们确实向中国提供了武器，但是他们没有按照承诺在朝鲜上空为中国军队提供空中掩护。再说一次，我认为中国是被苏联利用了
@Montre' Louise Bohon-Harris I actually disagree with this. In order to support China's effort, the soviets built a lot of industrial bases in Northern China, giving them the industrial capability that they never had prior to the war. In China's vietnam campaign, china went into Vietnam to get rid of the industrial bases that they helped Vietnamese set up during their war with the americans. It shows you that China realized how important industrialization is to a agricultural country.
我并不同意你的观点。为了支持中国的抗美援朝，苏联在中国北方建立了大量的工业基地，为中国提供了战前从未用过的工业能力。在中国打越南的时候，中国军队进入越南，拆除了越南战争期间中国帮助越南建立的工业基地。这说明中国已经意识到了工业化对一个农业国来说有多么重要。
The POW thing where they tattooed the prisoners is outrageous and I cannot believe that many people do not know about it.
美军在战俘身上刺纹身的做法实在是令人感到气愤，令人难以置信的是竟然很多人都不知道这件事。
it's a popular method of identification and labeling, popular use of the system is by the nazi's to concentration camp prisoners during WW2
这是一种非常普遍的做法，其目的就是为了识别战俘的身份，二战期间纳粹集中营就广泛使用过这种做法
@DomDiggity However, as someone who understands Chinese, I found that the tattoos on POWs were not designed for identification. Instead, those tattoos are anti-communist slogans, such as the word "反共” meaning anti-communist. It is clear that those tattoos were not used as identification but instead as humiliations.
作为一个懂中文的人，我发现战俘身上的纹身不是为了识别身份而设计的。他们在战俘身上纹的都是反共产主义的口号，比如“反共”一词，它的意思就是反共产主义。很明显这些纹身不是用来识别战俘身份的，而是用来羞辱战俘的
We just need to know more context when we talk about Korea war.
First, in the past 500 years, China sent troops to Korea multiple times when Korea was invaded by Japan. Also, Japan invaded China in late 19th century, after they landed in Korea. Thus, China has big concern or even become nerves if any foreign army exists in Korea.
Second, in China Civil war(1946- 1949), US provided military and financial support to KMT, now they are still in Taiwan. China does not trust US at all.
Third, when Korea was occupied by Japan from 1900 till 1945, a lot of Korean youth went to China and joined Chinese Army. In China Civil war(1946 - 1949), there were already 3 Korean divisions in People's Liberation Army of China. In Fall of 1949, these experienced troops were handed over to North Korea.
在聊朝鲜战争之前，我们需要了解更多的背景：
第一在过去500年里，中国曾多次出兵帮助朝鲜抗击日本侵略。此外，在19世纪后期，日本人先登陆朝鲜，之后才发动了对中国的入侵。因此如果朝鲜存在外国军队的话，那么中国就会非常关心，甚至会感到紧张。
第二在中国内战期间（1946到1949），美国向国民党提供军事和财政支持，如今他们依然盘踞在台湾地区。因此中国根本就不信任美国
第三在1900到1945年朝鲜被日本占领期间，有很多朝鲜青年去了中国，并加入了中国军队。在中国内战期间，中国解放军里面已经有了3个朝鲜人组成的师。在1949年秋季，这些身经百战的部队被移交给了朝鲜。
On August 8, 1945, Japan surrendered and Taiwan was returned to China.
in 1946, China Civil war occurred, KMT fled to Taiwan and PRC established on Oct 1, 1949. Because People's Liberation Army of China(PLA) had no navy and air force, PLA halted the movement to Taiwan. However, in UN security council, KMT(Taipei) was still representative of China.
On Feb 14, 1950 Sino-Soviet Treaty was signed. Beijing needed USSR to help build navy and air force to liberate Taiwan, want USSR to return some military bases in Northern China. This gave strong signal to US saying China stand with Moscow completely.
让我们来梳理一下时间线：
1945年8月8日，日本投降，台湾回归中国
1946年，中国内战爆发，国民党逃亡台湾，1949年10月1日中华人民共和国成立。因为中国解放军当时没有海空军，所以中国解放军暂停了对台湾的行动。但是在联合国安理会代表中国的依然是国民党政府（台北）
1950年2月14日，《中苏条约》签署。北京需要苏联帮助建立海空军以解放台湾，希望苏联归还在中国北方的一些军事基地。在美国看来，《中苏条约》是一个强烈的信号，说明中国已经彻底站在了苏联那边。
In April 1950, Stalin urged Kim to meet Mao. Kim did not do this
In May 1950, finally Kim consulted Mao about the attack plan and stated "Moscow has agreed and no aid required from China". Mao requested to suspend the plan "till Taiwan liberated" because the China Civil War did not end and Taiwan/Tibet/Hainan(3 provinces) were not yet liberated. Obviously Kim did not listen.
1950年3月，在莫斯科会晤期间，斯大林允许朝鲜领导人金日成可以进行有条件的攻击。而这个条件就是先得到毛泽东的许可。苏联帮助金日成制定军事攻击计划。但金日成没有通知毛泽东。金日成在乎的是斯大林的军事援助，他没有把毛泽东放在眼里。
1950年4月，斯大林敦促金日成去见毛泽东。但金日成没有照做。
1950年5月，金日成终于向毛泽东咨询了进攻计划，并表示莫斯科已经同意了这个计划，并且不需要中国提供援助。毛泽东要求在解放台湾之前，希望金日成可以暂停该计划，因为中国内战还没有结束，西藏台湾海南三省还没有解放。显然金日成没有听进去。
On 25 June, 1950, 3 days after outbreak of Korea War, US 7th fleet went to Taiwan Strait. US 7 fleet in Taiwan Strait has actually stopped PLA's plan to liberate Taiwan.
1950年6月7日，金日成呼吁在今年8月5日到8日期间在朝鲜半岛范围内进行选举，并要求于6月15日到17日在海州举行协商会议。6月11日，朝鲜派遣3名外交官到韩国提出和议，但遭到李承晚的断然拒绝。6月21日，金日成改变战争计划，跨越三八线，对韩国发动了总攻。
6月25日，朝鲜战争爆发3天后，美国第七舰队驶入台湾海峡。美国第七舰队驶入台湾海峡实际上就是为了阻止中国解放军解放台湾
On 7 July, UN condemned North Korea and organized UN troops.
On 15 Sept, 1950, US troops landed in Inchon
From 15 till 25 Sept, 1950, Beijing announced several warnings that "if US troops cross 38 parallel, China will intervene".
On 25 Sept, 1950, US troops crossed 38 line.
On 4 Oct 1950, with a planned invasion of Taiwan aborted due to the US naval presence, Mao reported to the Politburo that he would intervene in Korea and moved the troops to North of China. Politburo approved Mao's plan.
On 8 October 1950, Mao redesignated the PLA closing to Korea as the People's Volunteer Army (PVA) and entered North Korea.
1950年6月26日，中国政府抗议美国军队入侵台湾地区，并要求美国军队撤离。中国全国范围内爆发了声势浩大的抗议游行示威活动
7月7日，联合国谴责朝鲜并组建了联合国军
9月15日，美军登陆仁川。
9月15日到25日，北京多次发出警告，称如果美军跨越三八线，那么中国将进行干预。
9月25日，美军跨越三八线。
10月4日，由于美国海军的存在，中国计划统一台湾的计划流产，毛向政治局报告说他将干预朝鲜局势，要将军队调往中国北方。政治局批准了毛的计划。
10月8日，毛将集结在朝鲜周边的解放军改名为志愿军，之后志愿军进入朝鲜。
China needed USSR to help build navy and air force to liberate Taiwan, want USSR to return some military bases in North China, thus signed Sino-Soviet Treaty. This gave US signal saying "China joined cold war standing with Moscow".
US sent 7 fleet to Taiwan Strait 3 days after Korean war outbreak, Beijing felt "US actually already invaded China". If PLA has to fight against US troops, Korea was better place than Taiwan Strait.
Don't tell the Korean War was between UN vs China. At that time, the China in UN was represented by the government in Taipei. Beijing did not approve Kim's military plan. So, for most Chinese, it is not called Korean War but a war "to protect motherland and Resist U.S. Aggression and Aid North Korea".
Strategic Communication is very important between US and China. Even today.
简而言之就是
中国需要苏联帮助建立海空军解放台湾，希望苏联归还中国北方的一些军事基地，因此签署《中苏条约》。但在美国看来，这就是一个信号，那就是中国要在冷战中支持莫斯科。
在朝鲜战争爆发3天后，美国第七舰队驶入台湾海峡，北京觉得美国是在入侵中国，如果解放军要和美军交战，那么与其在台湾海峡打，倒还不如在朝鲜半岛打。
不要以为朝鲜战争是联合国和中国之间的战争，当时，联合国的中国代表是台北政府。北京没有允许金日成的军事计划。所以对于大部分中国人来说，这场战争不叫朝鲜战争，而叫做保家卫国，抗美援朝战争。
中美之间的战略沟通是非常重要的，即便是今天也依然如此。
Something that's frustrating, throughout this documentary the Chinese interviewees consistently, accurately refer to the opposing forces in Korea as UN forces, whilst the narrator consistently refers to them as US forces.
令人沮丧的是，在纪录片当中，中国受访者从始至终一直将朝鲜战场上的敌对势力称为联合国军，他们的称谓是准确的，但是叙述者却一直称他们是美军。
It was Un forces. The Korean war was a UN force.
是联合国军，朝鲜战争是联合国军打的
Slim 74 The U.S made like 80-90% of the manpower
但联合国军的兵力的80%到90%都是美国提供的
It was supported by the United Nations, a dozen or more countries sent troops, but by in large it was a U.S.run and controlled war.
这场战争受到了联合国的支持，十几个国家派出了军队，但是总的来说这场战争是由美国领导和控制的
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Thats right, China actually declared war on the United Nations, never forget that.
说的没错，不要忘了，中国实际上是在向联合国宣战
keep itsteel The Soviet unx was not in the United Nations at the time of the vote. In fact, the essence of the Korean War is the product of hegemony of the Soviet unx and the United States, and China is only protecting its own geopolitical security.
在联合国进行投票的时候，苏联恰好缺席。事实上，朝鲜战争的实质就是美苏争霸的产物。而中国介入这场战争只是为了保护自己的地缘政治安全而已
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
The Korean War was the most important war for modern China. Because of Chinese soldiers’ bravery, China saved USSR’s face and it had to fulfill its promise to return key ports and territories back to China. Not only that, it did a massive technological transfer to China, which further promoted China's industrialization.
朝鲜战争是现代中国最重要的战争。由于中国士兵的英勇无畏，苏联的脸面才能得以保留，而且苏联不得不履行自己的诺言，将关键的几个港口和领土归还给中国。不仅如此，苏联还对中国进行了大量的技术转让，这进一步促进了中国工业化发展。
So during the Korea War it seemed the North Koreans had no soldiers that they had to rely heavily on China and Chinese soldiers to push the Americans back. Correct me if I’m wrong.
所以在朝鲜战争期间，朝鲜几乎已经无兵可用，所以他们不得不严重依赖中国和中国军队来击退美军。如果我错了，请指正
陈陳
Then the Chinese army entered the war, and the battle line stayed near the 38th line.
China, North Korea and the Soviet unx suffered 650,000 casualties. There were more than 360,000 casualties in China, and 197,653 people were killed in battle.
The Korean Army, the US "United Nations Army" suffered more than 570,000 casualties. The CRS of the United States submitted a casualty statistics report, with a total of 36574 deaths.
在朝韩内战期间，朝鲜向韩国发动了攻击，当时朝鲜的伤亡数字很低。朝鲜一度占领了韩国90%的领土，但是在美国介入后，朝鲜的伤亡人数开始飙升。最后美国军队对中朝边境发动了攻击。随后中国军队参战，最后双方在三八线附近僵持不下。中国朝鲜和苏联的伤亡人数大约为65万。中国伤亡人数超过36万，阵亡197,653人。在朝鲜战争中，美国领导的联合国军伤亡超过57万人。根据美国国会研究服务处提交的伤亡统计报告显示，美国阵亡人数为36574人。(译注：以国内统计为准)