讨论：为什么法国似乎是唯一一个希望欧盟减少对美国依赖的国家？
Why does France seem to be the only country who wants the EU to be less reliant on the US?
译文简介
西方世界似乎也不是铁板一块
正文翻译
Stephen Clandillon
I think the most important word here is ‘seem’. The EU wants to improve its defensive and security capacity not just the French. The French are perhaps just the most vocal.
我认为这里最重要的词是“似乎”。欧盟希望提高其防御和安全能力，不仅仅是法国。法国可能只是最敢直言的国家。
I think the most important word here is ‘seem’. The EU wants to improve its defensive and security capacity not just the French. The French are perhaps just the most vocal.
我认为这里最重要的词是“似乎”。欧盟希望提高其防御和安全能力，不仅仅是法国。法国可能只是最敢直言的国家。
Nadhiya Athaide
France has ambitions to restore its international prestige & to become the most powerful state in the EU. Unfortunately for France, there are two obstacles in the way: Germany’s rise, & the USA
Early history
Following the ’60s & the gradual collapse of the French empire, France largely pursued a 3rd-way policy. France maintained dialogue & relations with both the USA & the Soviet unx and played a hand in funding wars & rebel independence movements in the remaining colonized territories. In the eyes of the USA, this made France a sort of sleeper cell. And as a result, they worked particularly hard to lobby the French government and keep them from going entirely Anti-USA.
Now France has a notable history of pushing back against US interests.
Chirac’s refusal to budge on supporting the war in Iraq was such a defiant and unforeseen move that rumors of FREXIT & France leaving NATO plagued every major headline for years on.
Fast forward to last year (2021)
In November of last year, news broke out that the USA had secretly signed a deal with Australia to provide them with nuclear-powered submarines. The West is increasing defense trade with its allies in the Pacific to combat the rise of China in the South China sea.
The huge issue with this deal is that France had already signed a deal with Australia to help them build submarines. This deal was worth $68 billion dollars and would’ve bought a huge amount of wealth & prestige to France & the French arms industry. Australia & the USA never informed France that they were negotiating the sale/production of such submarines. As a result, the USA signing this deal behind their back enraged the French administration.
French backlash was unusually outspoken, much so that the US administration eventually rushed a delegation to France to calm the storm. But the delegation arrived a bit too late for that.
In the last few decades, France’s leaders have increasingly seen the USA as an unreliable & unpredictable partner. And as a result, they now see a need to expand their relations & influence with states in North Africa, the Middle East & South Asia.
This is particularly why over the last few years, France has been pursuing stronger relations with India, Qatar, UAE, & Egypt via arms deals & gas exploration. France is playing a slow but long game to regain its international influence. And it appears to be playing this game decently well.
The question is, will it work?
法国有恢复国际声望并成为欧盟最强大国家的野心。不幸的是，法国面临着两个障碍：德国的崛起和美国。
早期历史
20世纪60年代的法兰西帝国逐渐崩溃之后，在很大程度上采取了第三条道路政策。法国与美国和苏联都保持对话和一定关系，并在剩下的殖民地地区资助反抗和独立运动。在美国看来，这使法国成了一个潜在的不稳定因素。因此，他们特别努力游说法国政府，防止其与美国作对。
现在，法国有着无视美国利益的历史。
希拉克拒绝支持对伊拉克的战争让人们大为震惊，这一举动如此挑衅和出乎意料，以至于法兰西退欧和法国退出北约的传闻多年来一直占据着各大新闻的头条。
France has ambitions to restore its international prestige & to become the most powerful state in the EU. Unfortunately for France, there are two obstacles in the way: Germany’s rise, & the USA
Early history
Following the ’60s & the gradual collapse of the French empire, France largely pursued a 3rd-way policy. France maintained dialogue & relations with both the USA & the Soviet unx and played a hand in funding wars & rebel independence movements in the remaining colonized territories. In the eyes of the USA, this made France a sort of sleeper cell. And as a result, they worked particularly hard to lobby the French government and keep them from going entirely Anti-USA.
Now France has a notable history of pushing back against US interests.
Chirac’s refusal to budge on supporting the war in Iraq was such a defiant and unforeseen move that rumors of FREXIT & France leaving NATO plagued every major headline for years on.
Fast forward to last year (2021)
In November of last year, news broke out that the USA had secretly signed a deal with Australia to provide them with nuclear-powered submarines. The West is increasing defense trade with its allies in the Pacific to combat the rise of China in the South China sea.
The huge issue with this deal is that France had already signed a deal with Australia to help them build submarines. This deal was worth $68 billion dollars and would’ve bought a huge amount of wealth & prestige to France & the French arms industry. Australia & the USA never informed France that they were negotiating the sale/production of such submarines. As a result, the USA signing this deal behind their back enraged the French administration.
French backlash was unusually outspoken, much so that the US administration eventually rushed a delegation to France to calm the storm. But the delegation arrived a bit too late for that.
In the last few decades, France’s leaders have increasingly seen the USA as an unreliable & unpredictable partner. And as a result, they now see a need to expand their relations & influence with states in North Africa, the Middle East & South Asia.
This is particularly why over the last few years, France has been pursuing stronger relations with India, Qatar, UAE, & Egypt via arms deals & gas exploration. France is playing a slow but long game to regain its international influence. And it appears to be playing this game decently well.
The question is, will it work?
法国有恢复国际声望并成为欧盟最强大国家的野心。不幸的是，法国面临着两个障碍：德国的崛起和美国。
早期历史
20世纪60年代的法兰西帝国逐渐崩溃之后，在很大程度上采取了第三条道路政策。法国与美国和苏联都保持对话和一定关系，并在剩下的殖民地地区资助反抗和独立运动。在美国看来，这使法国成了一个潜在的不稳定因素。因此，他们特别努力游说法国政府，防止其与美国作对。
现在，法国有着无视美国利益的历史。
希拉克拒绝支持对伊拉克的战争让人们大为震惊，这一举动如此挑衅和出乎意料，以至于法兰西退欧和法国退出北约的传闻多年来一直占据着各大新闻的头条。
快进到2021年
2021年11月，消息爆出美国与澳大利亚秘密签署协议，向其提供核动力潜艇。西方国家正加强与太平洋地区盟友的军火贸易，以应对中国在南中国海的崛起。
这项协议引发的巨大问题是，此前法国已经与澳大利亚签署了帮其建造潜艇的协议。这项协议价值680亿美元，本可以为法国和法国军工业带来巨大的财富和声望。然而，澳大利亚和美国并未告知法国他们正在就生产和销售这种潜艇进行谈判。结果，美国在背后签署这项协议激怒了法国政府。
法国的反弹态度异常强硬，最后美国政府匆忙派遣代表团前往法国平息风波。但这个代表团来得有点晚了。
在过去的几十年里，法国领导人越来越认为美国是一个不可靠的、不可预测的伙伴。因此，他们现在认为有必要扩大与北非、中东和南亚国家的关系并增加影响力。
这就是为什么在过去的几年里，法国一直通过军售和天然气勘探与印度、卡塔尔、阿联酋和埃及建立更加紧密的关系。法国正在进行一场缓慢而长期的游戏，以重新获得国际影响力，而且看起来表现得相当不错。
问题是，它能奏效吗？
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I'll only talk about India.
France has become one of the most reliable allies for India. I used to think that India is the one kissing up to France but then I came to know that France also wanted more partners and India just fit right into their interests as well.
France has been a partner for India when it was in dire need. Brexit had upended the whole trade mechanism of India with EU as major trade was done through London. France (and Netherlands) stepped up and helped in a smooth transition.
France has also become a military supplier to India, even agreeing to a 50% partnership with Indian companies (which essentially means the possibility of reverse engineering and loss of control on intellectual property).
French companies keep turning out to be the winners in multiple bidding processes for major Indian infrastructure projects and there has been a rapid expansion of French multinational corporations in India (I work in one as well).
If there is one thing any Indian who is aware about Foreign Policy absolutely loves, its the countries that help us get into significant organisations and international forums for diplomacy and trade (also a major reason that so many Indians are pro-Russia).
Personally I am not pro-Russia or pro-France because I am a follower of Mearshimer (realist school of thought), but as far as Indian foreign policy is concerned, we have a lot to love about France.
我只谈印度。
法国已成为印度最可靠的盟友之一。我曾经认为是印度在讨好法国，但后来了解到法国也希望有更多的伙伴，而印度正好符合他们的利益。
在急需帮助时法国成为了印度的伙伴。英国脱欧彻底瘫痪了印度与欧盟的贸易机制，因为主要的贸易是通过伦敦进行的。法国（与荷兰）挺身而出，帮助印度平稳过渡。
法国还成为了印度的军事供应商，甚至同意与印度公司进行占50%股权的合作（这实际上意味着可能进行逆向工程并丧失对知识产权的控制）。
法国公司赢得了多个重要的印度基础设施项目的招标，法国的跨国公司在印度迅速扩张（我也在其中一家公司工作）。
如果说有一件事是了解外交政策的印度人都喜欢的，那就是帮助我们进入重要组织和国际论坛进行外交和贸易的国家（这也是许多印度人支持俄罗斯的主要原因）。
就个人而言，我不亲俄罗斯也不亲法国，因为我是迈尔希默（现实派）的追随者，但就印度的外交政策而言，法国很讨喜。
“played a hand in funding wars & rebel independence movements in the remaining colonized territories”
I am a bit surprised. What do you have in mind ?
“stronger relations with India, Qatar, UAE, & Egypt via arms deals & gas exploration”
France Capital loves investing itself abroad. There is nothing new there. The obxtions over Iraq were not out of pure altruism — there was a lot of French investment over there, and the destruction of the Middle East by the USA is in part a deliberate blow to older EU nations interests in the region.
引用“在剩下的殖民地地区资助反抗和独立运动”
我有点惊讶，你指的是什么？
引用“通过军售和天然气勘探与印度、卡塔尔、阿联酋和埃及建立更加紧密的关系”
法国资本喜欢在国外投资，这不是新鲜事。对伊拉克战争的反对并不是为了反对美国——法国在那里有很多投资，而美国对中东的破坏在一定程度上是对老牌欧盟国家在该地利益的有意打击。
Indeed, it is a long story.
Let us also not forget that in 1966, Charles De Gaulle decided that France would no longer be part of NATO.
For him it was inconceivable that France, nuclear power, should be part of a military organization led and controlled by the United States.
And in 2009, forty-three years later, it was President Sarkozy who decided to reintegrate France into NATO.
确实，这是一个漫长的故事。
我们也不要忘记，1966年，戴高乐将军决定法国不再是北约的一部分。
他认为，法国作为一个核大国，加入一个由美国主导和控制的军事组织是无法理解的。
43年后的2009年，萨科齐总统决定让法国重新加入北约。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
The Iraq War thing was nothing to do with 'frexit’ or NATO membership. It was simply someone looking squarely at a heap of bullshit, thinking about it and declaring 'this is bullshit’. Don't get me wrong, I am no fan of Jaques Chirac but boy did he play his cards well on that one. Tony Blair by contrast was an embarrassment. Bush? Well, enough said.
伊拉克战争与"法国脱欧"或北约成员资格无关。它只是某人不经大脑的胡言乱语，仔细想想就会发现"这就是胡扯"。请不要误解我的意思，我并不是雅克·希拉克的粉丝，但他在这件事上处理的很好。相比之下，托尼·布莱尔真的令人尴尬。至于布什嘛，就不多说了。
What I heard France was offering tech transfer to India which US was not doing…India should grab this opportunity and this can help India take a leap into building future warfare tech….this gesture of France was definitely a positive signal
听说法国向印度提供了美国不曾提供的技术转让...应该抓住这个机会，这有助于印度建设发展未来的战争技术...法国的这一做法无疑是一个积极的信号。
“France’s leaders have increasingly seen the USA as an unreliable & unpredictable partner” sadly France has good evidence for its approach !
“法国领导人越来越认为美国是一个不可靠的、难以预测的伙伴”，遗憾的是他们有充分的证据加以证明。
The Airport arrest of Alstom executives in USA and subsequent sale of Alstom Power to GE also caused a sour patch, USA didn't want a French company to have the turbine technologies.
阿尔斯通高管在美国机场被逮捕，随后阿尔斯通电力被迫出售给通用电气，这也引起了一些风波，美国不希望一个法国公司拥有涡轮技术。
I hope it does work. A multipolar world is good thing if the various poles don't have terrible political and human rights values. More countries taking responsibility for global problems is win-win.
我希望它能够有所作为。如果多级世界没有可怕的政治和人权价值观，那就是一件好事。更多国家对全球问题负责是有利的。
“France has ambitions to restore its international prestige & to become the most powerful state in the EU. Unfortunately for France, there are two obstacles in the way: Germany’s rise, & the USA”
As a french, I am not aware of that. I don’t hear that in the news, from politicians, or from people around me.
We are not the most powerful state in Europe, and we won’t be. We will never have the same international influence as we have had by the past. The current french president (the one chosen by the majority of french citizens) actually wants a stronger Europe, which means giving up part of our sovereignty to the European unx.
“法国想恢复国际声望并成为欧盟中最强大的国家。不幸的是，对法国来说，有两个障碍：德国的崛起和美国。”
作为一个法国人，我不知道有这样的说法。我从新闻、政客或身边的人中都没听到过这样的观点。
我们不是欧洲最强大的国家，以后也不会是。我们永远无法拥有过去那样的国际影响力。现任法国总统（由大多数法国公民选出的）实际上想要一个更强大的欧洲，这意味着我们要将一部分主权出让给欧盟。
France also has made a deal with Indonesia by supplying a number of Rafale fighter jets. The move has shocked the USA and It tried to make a good deal with Indonesia, the Congress agreed to sell some F15EX fighter jets to Indonesia.
法国还与印度尼西亚达成了一项交易，向其提供了一批阵风战斗机。这一举动震惊了美国，美国试图与印度尼西亚达成一项有利的交易，国会同意向印度尼西亚出售一批F15EX战斗机。
Actually, the submarine deal between France and the deceitful Aussies was not for nuclear submarines. Why? Because Australia specifically said they did not want nuclear submarines (as a matter of principle, I understand), even though France has this technology.
And then next thing you know, they negotiate a deal for nuclear submarines.
With such “friends", I'm not sure you actually need enemies ^^
实际上，法国与狡猾的澳大利亚之间的潜艇交易并不涉及核潜艇。为什么呢？因为澳大利亚明确表示他们不想要核潜艇（这是原则问题我能理解），即使法国有这项技术。
接下来大家都知道，他们（美国与澳大利亚）谈判达成了一项核潜艇交易。
有了这样的“朋友”，我都不知道你还需不需要敌人 ^^
I hope by now everyone who read this write up most have realized why Africans are wary about there former colonial masters and why thy are accuse of financing regime change and terrorist organization in Africa,as of now the majority problem of Africa is the influence of colonial masters on the puppet leadership they impose on them just steal there resources and those that refuses to comply to there needs are killed.
我希望到现在，看到这篇文章的人都能明白到为什么非洲人那么警惕他们的前殖民主义者，以及为什么他们被指控在非洲资助颠覆政权和恐怖组织。目前非洲的主要问题是殖民主义者控制着他们的傀儡政权，只为了窃取资源，而那些拒绝满足他们需求的人被杀害了。